r/gaming • u/Asianboiforwhitedad • 9h ago
Kingdom Come Deliverance studio co-founder says a lot of RPGs are 'still games for teenagers,' and that he's 'tired of all the RPGs where you are this chosen one'
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/kingdom-come-deliverance-studio-co-founder-says-a-lot-of-rpgs-are-still-games-for-teenagers-and-that-hes-tired-of-all-the-rpgs-where-you-are-this-chosen-one/3.4k
u/slip_and_fall_school 9h ago
In a way, he's not wrong.
However, even in games like KCD 1&2 where it is explicitly and repeatedly made clear that you're a nothing and nobody you still get to a point where Henry is a terminator.
Not really sure how to balance the "just a regular guy" ethos and the wish fulfillment and player agency that most gamers desire, or at least I haven't found a game that hits the sweet spot.
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u/7screws 8h ago
Well.. you could also spin it a little that if you put the time in you could become something might be more realistic
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u/NiceTrySuckaz 7h ago
Hell yeah. A game where you grind for twelve years to get promoted to junior level executive at a bread distribution company
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u/7screws 7h ago
The end end game is getting laid off at 50 and trying to find a job in the AI market
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u/LeGrats 5h ago
But the side quest where you cheat on your wife with the housekeeper and destroy your marriage and finances was pretty well fleshed out and entertaining
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u/Giovannis_Pikachu 5h ago
"this guy's taken Roy off the grid. He doesn't have a social security number!"
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u/Altruistic-Ad-408 8h ago
This is my problem with criticisms of the chosen one trope, it's always coming from people that are fine with plot armour, action hero protags and so on, every character is chosen by the author, making it official in universe just lets you do more with it, if need be.
I'd rather see people play around with expectations than deny them on principle. It's juvenile to call it juvenile, especially if you're not even trying to do something deeply mature, dude makes a power fantasy about swordfighting.
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u/PowerSamurai 8h ago
I think you are misunderstanding the issue. The issue is not that you are the main character in the story since that is always the case. It is that it restricts role play, who your character is and in game it is a tired trope.
It is interesting to explore fantasy worlds through several lenses and especially in an rpg to define yourself within the world through your decisions.
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u/kueso 8h ago
Yea, I think there’s a difference between “you’re born to save the world” à la Legend of Zelda types of stories and the “you’re put in a situation where you get challenged and have to make the best of it”. I think both tell hero stories but one has more moral quandaries and leaves room for difficult decisions.
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u/FarrMixture 7h ago
Yeah, that distinction makes a lot of sense. Being thrown into a situation and rising to it feels way more satisfying than being destined for it from the start
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u/Shiriru00 8h ago
The problem with the "chosen one" trope is not really the power creep, it's that the whole world revolves around you.
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u/OrdinaryFrosting1 7h ago
And then in Skyrim nobody even acknowledges that you're a demigod and try and attack you for walking down the road like you're some roving trader
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u/Spinyhug 7h ago
I'm the archmage, head of all the guilds, yelling words in languages unspoken for thousands of years, creating magic unseen in living memory.
... Apparently, I still don't go to the Cloud District, and look like somebody stole my sweet roll.
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u/fake_user_34 5h ago
I got a talking shelf following me now with infinite space for storage. I have a flaming sword and my armor is colored like the Sweden flag. I can summon meatballs.
I am also a vampire lord. But apparently bandits still try to stop me...and I love it.
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u/Rosary_Omen 4h ago
That IKEA mod is hilarious
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u/fake_user_34 4h ago
Literally the reason I reinstalled the game again and play after like 4 years. I saw the teaser of it, thought "this is fucking stupid, I am so going to try it out". I love it.
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u/Phantom-_-Wizard 6h ago
And that's why skyrim does an interesting thing with the chosen one trope. I Mean word would spread about you, but they have no idea what the dragon born looks like. And it's so funny and fun because it feels like a mugger has just hit the jackpot of bad days, and you get to play the "so, you have chosen death" card.
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u/9966 6h ago
What about the farmer who sees you accidentally kill a chicken and walks up to a dude in gigantic armor glowing with a matching glowing sword and lightning shooting out of their hands ... And decides ... Today is the day.
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u/Fuliginlord 5h ago
Maybe it is that farmers turn to be a Chosen One, did you ever thi…. and the farmer is dead..
Maybe the farmer thought he was in Dungeon Siege.
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u/froop 4h ago
Armor really needs an intimidation stat or something to influence NPC behavior
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u/Lee1138 3h ago
Maybe they don't know what you look like, but a common bandit going "let's rob the guy wearing armor made from dragon bone and has a magical swirly light sword" was never a recipe for a long and fruitful life
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u/Lawlcopt0r 7h ago
You get to a point where it's weird that the world doesn't revolve around you when you're a one man army
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u/Dartz_Reverse 6h ago
RPG idea: Generic zero to hero story, but after you defeated the BBEG, the entire world will gradually start fearing you because you're even more dangerous.
Tbf I read that kinda plot in a bunch of trashy mangas.
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u/Fargoth_took_my_ring 5h ago
Fable always aimed for stuff like that
I am interested to see what they do with the new one
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u/eric23456 6h ago
Yea, the Elder Scrolls games are full of this problem. Once I'm wandering around in full enchanted daedric armor, the correct response from most mobs would be to run in fear, not to assault or threaten me.
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u/SilveryDeath Xbox 3h ago
And if they implemented that people would complain about how when you get to a certain point in the game there are no human enemies to fight.
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u/localpauper 7h ago
I always found that refreshing in The Wticher series. Witcher is a total badass, but he's just a drop in the stream of reality. The world does not require his existence to continue.
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u/Bryligg 6h ago
Right, Geralt is a professional. This implies a profession. The world does not revolve around him because he is but one of many badasses a cut above the common people. He has protagonist/player character agency, but that's rare rather than unique. If he doesn't solve the problem, the quest giver can always just hire somebody else.
Honestly The Witcher is a great setting for an MMO.
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u/TheAndrewBrown 7h ago
Yeah his comments don’t seem to have anything to do with becoming unstoppable, it’s that all RPGs revolve around huge, world ending events.
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u/ThatCoolDPS 8h ago
- I liked the story of KCD but saying Henry is a nobody is ... hem
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u/damhow 8h ago
Who wants to play an adventure RPG where you don’t become an impactful person? You can’t be regular and highly impactful, it’s a bit of an oxymoron.
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u/Desertcow 8h ago
Tbf one of the most praised RPGs of the last decade is about an alcoholic cop in a backwater city solving one minor murder case
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u/Zenspy-Real 7h ago
Not exactly minor since that one murder was about to trigger the death of the whole town, if Harry wasn't there then it would have been a massacre.
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u/OkkRespect 8h ago
that’s a pretty good counterexample. Disco Elysium shows you can be a complete mess of a person and still have a meaningful impact without becoming some unstoppable hero.
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u/EarthRester 7h ago
I'm a Hobo-Cop, and I'm here to start Communism! Now give me a bite of that sandwich!
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u/Pipe_Memes 7h ago
Now watch me shoot a ten year old dead for mouthing off to me and end the game in the first 30 minutes.
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u/delahunt 6h ago
"Watch me die because I'm an unfit fuck and I tried too hard to get my tie in the first 5 minutes."
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u/MonaganX 6h ago
A complete mess of a person that's strongly implied to have genuinely paranormal abilities though.
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u/ShinyGrezz 7h ago
I haven’t played it, I’ll say that upfront, but I’m sure that the MC of Disco Elysium is still important within the boundaries of the plot’s scope.
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u/DaisyCutter312 7h ago
Isn't that exactly why KCD2 is?
Henry impacts Henry-level things, but regardless of what you do, Sigismund is still going to take the throne and history marches on.
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u/Djuulzor 8h ago
I think the regular guy thing has more to do with your place in the world instead of the capabilities you have. The chosen one is needed in by the world to oppose the cataclysmic story devise. If you were to take away a regular life goes on like any day.
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u/alezul 8h ago
However, even in games like KCD 1&2 where it is explicitly and repeatedly made clear that you're a nothing and nobody
Reminds of witcher, where you're constantly told you're an ugly freak while looking like a model with a sexy scar that can take on anything, including kinda the devil himself.
Not really sure how to balance the "just a regular guy" ethos
I'm sure there might be others but the only one i can think of right now is the walkin sim Road 96.
There you play as some random teenager trying to escape your country. The trick is that you're not "the chosen one" because once you reach the border, the game ends and you have a roguelike element where you can start a new run with a new kid to experience other adventures along the way.
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u/Gregregious 8h ago
Reminds of witcher, where you're constantly told you're an ugly freak while looking like a model with a sexy scar that can take on anything, including kinda the devil himself.
Witcher is really corny like this, there's a lot of complexity in the worldbuilding but you're still a sexy hypermasculine badass with a harem of supernaturally hot women who wanna fuck you. A lot of games think that the protagonist being gruff and stoic makes it more gritty but it's really just the easiest cipher for a certain power fantasy.
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u/Sugarbombs 4h ago
In the books Geralt and witchers are described as incredibly ugly which is partly why they are despised along with all the magic usage and monster hunting stuff. I get why they made him hot in the game but it really annoyed me that they still wrote dialogue suggesting he was some hideous freak. It was also why the Yennifer relationship was so interesting, because they are both ugly outcasts who grew up isolated and while Yennifer can change her appearance now she still loves that ugly little witchy boi, but no fuck her best friend because god forbid a female character is on screen and you can’t see boobs.
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u/LateStageBBQ 8h ago
lol. I’d never really thought of that before and you’re 1000% right.
Geralt: I am a hideous freak Witcher, despised and feared.
(All panties fly off)
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u/Successful-Return-78 8h ago edited 7h ago
It makes sense in the books. He is desired only by sorceresses because all of them have perfect faces and he is an interesting freak.
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u/static_func 8h ago
Sure but growing into a badass is still way different from being a "chosen one" kind of character. The whole last arc of the game is still just you and your closest allies wasting away under siege, abandoned by allies bigger and more important than you, until you sneak out at night in a desperate Hail Mary move
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u/LoboGuarah 7h ago
Except Henry isn't a nobody as he's the son of a Noble. A bastard, sure. But still the son of Radzig and has gotten away with many things in KCD1 just because of that blood relation.
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u/EternalCanadian PC 8h ago
It’s about how you frame things in relation to other characters, really.
Gears of War E-Day (not an RPG, but it’s applicable here due to story) does a good job at this, because your squad is just one of dozens foghting in a single city, and as you go through the game you link up with multiple other squads doing the same thing.
Resistance Fall of Man does similar, even with your character explicitly being special, it basically always frames things around other people, not just you, even if gameplay makes you important, the stiry doesn’t.
For example, in Resistance, the games’s final mission is about getting inside an alien tower to destroy it. A game where you’re the chosen one would phrase things as “…it was now up to Nathan Hale (the player character) to get inside and destroy the tower.” But Resistance actually frames it as “…it was now up to the few soldiers who had gotten inside the tower to destroy it.”
It’s a small thing, but it helps convey you’re not actually all that impressive because just by proxy, other characters are doing similar things.
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u/fiercepanda 8h ago
Kenshi handles this very well. You truly feel like nobody and even at later points in the game you will still get your ass handed to you. There is no grand “main story” just a sandbox and people with their own stories and lives.
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u/Darkgorge 8h ago
Amusing because there is another comment on this same thread about how Kenshi still kind of suffers from this problem because the game world still relies on the player to really change the world in any significant way.
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u/HiCracked 7h ago
The reality is nobody really wants to play as an absolute dipshit that can't do anything at all well, games are games after all. However, KCD1 made a much better effort in at least feeding you an illusion of you being a nobody, to the point where you couldn't even read without completing a quest.
In KCD2 you pretty much already start as a "Hero" and I'd argue that game doesn't even try to fool you in that regard.
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u/we_are_sex_bobomb 8h ago
It’s hard to make a video game where you’re not special or chosen in some way because it’s hard to believe an ordinary person could fight like 500 guys and survive over the course of their mission.
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u/ProperGrape 7h ago
Far Cry 3 did it right. A guy just trying to survive, eventually just gets good at it.
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u/red_sutter Switch 5h ago
The MC had magic tattoos and the personal blessing of the island’s leader or Demi-goddess or whatever she was though
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u/NerrionEU 4h ago
Dark Souls series kinda uses that trope where you start as a regular random undead.
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u/ThirdRevolt 7h ago
You don't need to be ordinary, being one out of many special people in a given setting is fine. What I am so tired of is being The Chosen One and being the most specialest special person in a given game.
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u/VeryNoisyLizard 7h ago
Skyrim is the biggest offender I can think of in this regard. you are the dragonborn. youre are also the archmage, the harbinger, the guildmaster, the listener, nightingale, ....
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u/GI_J0SE 8h ago
Its really more of a fault of the "Heros journey trope" where the Zero becomes a Hero so obviously that's just basic story telling. Though if you want a general audience to relate to a story it's hard to do without some baseline
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u/Kennysded 7h ago
So there's this story I've been writing for a long time (for fun, not to actually be a writer). And I actually had a difficult time working around this. Narratively, it helps to have an "outsider" as the protagonist/ MC, because as they "discover the world," so does the player / reader. But why is this random actually central to the plot (if the plot is high stakes)? There's a ton of different paths to making a character the MC / Protagonist:
You've got the "descendant of [usually royalty]," but that's a tired trope (Star Wars OG: Luke and sequels: Ray, Aragorn in LotR).
Then there's "chosen one," which is kinda lazy, unless prophecy and whatnot is relevant in the story (the last 3 Elder Scrolls).
The Souls games have "you're not special, you're just another random person trying over and over until you go Hollow or succeed," which is interesting, but requires certain dynamics (immortality) to be applicable.
And the old "[protagonist] discovered relic / power/ technology" and is therefore the savior (Horizon Zero Dawn, which also has "descendant of x").
There are few stories that actually draw in the player / reader about "random person who has no power and no high stakes." Most of us already live that, and there are games like that (Sim games, some survival games, probably tons that I've never really looked at).
But in terms of an RPG, fantasy / sci-fi story, how does one do that and make it interesting?
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u/HatesVegetables 9h ago
I feel like being the "Chosen One" is just a simple way for the plot to happen, especially if you were previously some random schlub who's now going toe to toe against shit like massive dragons, gods, and universal concepts given form.
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u/unoriginalcat 8h ago
I feel like it’s almost the chicken and the egg dilemma.
Is a protagonist “the chosen one” because the entire plot hinges on them, or are they simply chosen to be the protagonist because they already happen to be imperative to the plot?
If a character isn’t special in any way and nothing interesting ever happens to them, then they’re obviously incapable of being the main POV through which an exciting story is told.
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u/ba123blitz 3h ago
Imagining playing Skyrim but instead of being the Dragonborn you just hear about some shit happening every few months
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u/Dusty170 4h ago
You could play a game as the 'lucky cameraman' that watches the actual hero do all the fun stuff. Doesn't that sound like an exciting game......
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u/pdpi 9h ago
This was something I quite liked about Oblivion, where Martin is the actual "chosen one", and you're just kind of there for the ride.
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u/Lemonpierogi 8h ago
The Prisoner (so a protagonist of most TES games) is ALSO the chosen one. They're the being chosen to affect important events. Ans they're the only one to be able to affect their destiny
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u/nhalliday 7h ago
To my knowledge it's left somewhat up to interpretation whether or not you're important in Oblivion. Like you could've been placed by the divines in that prison, just popped into existence, and that's why the guards didn't know you were there. Or it could've really been a mixup with the watch - which is apparently "usual".
The Emperor saw your face in a vision, but did he see you because you are important or because you were the first domino in helping someone else achieve their destiny?
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u/phoenixflare599 6h ago
Yeah literally one of the conversation lines is "what happens to me now?" And the emperor is like
"How the fuck would I know? I'm about to die"
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u/fake_user_34 5h ago
Thing is, the player character is ALWAYS important in elder scrolls games. But not be the main chosen one but they are a chosen one. The Prisoner is an actual phenomenon in the elder scrolls lore that gets very meta. And I do mean meta in a Captial M sort of way.
The Prisoner is a person who can see beyond the bars of the prison, the prison being the game. The prisoner is the game character and we are the ones looking in from outside, us the player, we can see behind the bars.
Yes, Elder Scrolls gets stupid meta like that when it comes to the lore that, us in real life, are part of the lore. We take control of the prisoner and change things that the game, the prison, never expects.
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u/obscurakin 8h ago
Witcher's story is somewhat similar in this regard. Geralt may be the primary protagonist but Ciri and her powers are what it's all about.
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u/emanuele0933 9h ago
They are in fact aimed to teenagers
There are some adult like RPGs out there but they sell way less. People like teen story and grand scale plots where you need to defeat a bunch of gods to save your universe from cancellation
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u/Tragedy_Boner 9h ago edited 9h ago
Is there a rpg where you are a game dev fighting CEOs to stop your game from cancellation?
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u/From_Deep_Space 8h ago
Postal 2
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u/nomedable 8h ago
I thought that was about getting people to sign your petition?
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u/An_Ugly_Bastard 7h ago
I thought that was about on peeing people in the face
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u/AN-94_Handholder 9h ago
I swear this was the plot of a Star Ocean game
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u/Consistent_Soil_5794 8h ago
Yes, till the end of time. You have to stop 4th dimensional game Ceo Lucifer from shutting down the Universe MMO.
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u/Chat2Text 8h ago
that game annoyed the hell out of me, guides would tell me that I need to patent Orichalcum so I don't have to pay out the wooza, but the lady that you need to hire to do exactly that seems to always instant patents it the moment you're able to hire her
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u/Deto 8h ago
Definitely a lot of games where you play as a teen or kid. But I don't know if I'd agree that all "hero's journey" games are aimed at teens though. I mean that's a super common literary trope, is it not?
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u/Quint0ni0 8h ago
yeah i dont know where this idea came from of the basic heroes journey only being a story template that teens enjoy
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u/Alaira314 6h ago
I'm pretty sure it comes from the tendency people have to use "it's for people younger than me(unspoken: who haven't developed taste yet)" as a way to put things they don't like down while implying they have a more refined taste in art/entertainment. We learn to do this when we're children("um, I don't watch that show, don't you know it's for babies?") and many of us continued doing it not only through our tween and teen years, but well into adulthood. I personally don't think it's productive, but it's easier to tear others down than to build yourself up, so I see the allure.
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u/static_func 8h ago
Some of the best-selling RPGs in the last few years have had heavy adult themes (KCD 1 and 2, Cyberpunk, Clair Obscur). All these games appeal to many teenagers as well, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're "aimed at teenagers."
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u/MaimedJester 7h ago
Yeah one of the best things about Mass Effect is they're all adults. The only teenager kinda is Tali? Maybe the Hispanic Guy from the 3rd one who's so not memorable i can't recall his name and I really only know his character trait as the Hispanic guy.
At least Jacob the Black guy had the most fucked up loyalty quest every in Mass Effect 2. Ain't no one gonna forget that one.
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u/The5Virtues 8h ago
I personally prefer older protagonists and smaller/more personal stakes, but that isn’t. What. Sells.
I get being sick of it, I get wanting to do something else, but at the end of the day you have to consider what’s marketable and will do well enough that you can recoup your financial investment and go on to make another game.
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u/SSLByron 8h ago
At a higher level, the simple fact is that people don't tell stories about nobodies unless they become somebodies. A story-driven RPG needs a hero whose deeds were worthy of being recorded for posterity.
KCD2 doesn't need that hook because it's a sandbox set against a historical background. The worldbuilding was done for them and the whole point is to write your own narrative.
There's a vanishingly small audience of people who want to be "immersed" in bathroom visits and 9-5 tedium, but that's what niche sandbox games are for.
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u/JhoshElite 8h ago
Idk man maybe I'm an exception but even when I was younger I liked games where I wasn't some mythical magical chosen one that comes along once every 12,461 years and happened to show up right when every continent on the planet decided to kill each other at the same time an otherworldly presence made itself known.
That's why I'm so drawn to the Gothic games. Where you're just.. some poor sod trying to make his way through the world he's been cast into. You're not special, and what you do with that is up to you. I think it let's you have more loose story anyway. You can think up your own backstory without adhering to a strict paved one.
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u/FoxTenson 8h ago
Even just having an older character can be an issue in Japan, and with sales. Original Nier release in the west with Dad Nier hits way different and WAY harder with everything that happens. It wasn't a popular design in japan so bishonen brother Nier was chosen instead. The story goes almost the exact same but just having the main character be a dad desperately trying to save his daughter compared to a brother saving his sister changes the entire feel and impact. Can't have that though, gotta have the young attractive MC aimed at teens.
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u/Harinezumi_1989 8h ago
It's the other way around actually. Brother Nier came first and was changed for Papa Nier for the West. It's kind of obvious when some of Papa's lines are obviously written for a young kid, like Brother Nier pre timeskip.
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u/Strange-You-9326 6h ago
I wouldn't say it hits harder. The game was clearly written with brother Nier in mind, a lot of stuff just comes off super silly with father Nier if anything
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u/Tidus4713 8h ago
Exactly why Persona became more popular than Shin Megami Tensei. I'll always prefer SMT but people just really like role playing as kids for some reason.
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u/civil_politician 8h ago
I would play the same game where it's coworkers doing a 8-5 grind
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u/AvaryZig 8h ago
A lot of indie horror games have this setup. 70% just working a job, 30% pure dread and suffering.
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u/RandoDando10 9h ago edited 7h ago
Is that not literally what KCD does...? Obviously its not taking this mysical supernaturnal route where you're basically god, but you are still very much made out to be the chosen one, nothing happens without you lol
It kinda just comes with the genre; RPG = Roleplaying Game. You live out a fictional character's story.
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u/ExtensionParsley4205 9h ago
Yeah exactly. Like, Henry's backstory is literally a fairytale.
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u/TheGenesisOfTheNerd 8h ago
Henry pretty much plays a chosen role though
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u/CuddleWings 8h ago
It’s honestly kinda required. No one wants to play an rpg where your character isn’t involved in the main story.
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u/Min_sora 9h ago
I don't think power fantasies have ever really waned in popularity because most people are powerless and it sucks.
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u/sirentropy42 8h ago
On the one hand, a good narrative tells the story of the person whose story is worth telling. In the majority of cases, this is going to give “chosen one” vibes.
There are some nifty twists on this where, say, the Hero of Kvatch (Oblivion) isn’t the chosen one. Tidus (FFX) isn’t really the chosen one either, but there’s a lot of supernatural nepotism there.
KCD provides the same sort of spin on things too, but from a much more historically realistic lens; the reason Henry’s story is worth telling isn’t some glorified upbringing, he’s just the guy who did things. It’s reminiscent to me of Yakuza in that way; the plot is driven by all manner of factors, factions, and actors within the Tojo Clan, but the story is about Kiryu, because he’s the one who dictates how it ends.
This issue isn’t RPG specific or even gaming specific. It’s just a fact about the limitations of narrative fiction as an entertainment form. The only game series I can think of off the top of my head that don’t fall into this trap are TLoU, Braid, and RDR.
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u/Calinks 8h ago
I get it. I enjoyed early KCD when I was a chump. That said they are almost all a power fantasy. Very few games make you feel limited or incapable. I will go r props to Disco Elysium for this because you are still a bad ass in many ways you can and will straight up fail a lot of situations.
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u/Fangzfps 7h ago
Being a nobody who slowly becomes somebody is way more fun than being born special.
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u/Eremitt-thats-hermit 8h ago
It’s an RPG. Even if you’re narratively the chosen one you can just bust your build so much that you can kill literal gods.
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u/Tastingo 7h ago
I loved the quest in KDC1 where you scout a bandit camp for angles of attack. When you report to your Lord, he don't fucking let you choose how he's gonna do it. He listens and make his own decision.
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u/Kasern77 8h ago
Yea so? I play games for entertainment and escapism. If I want to experience being a nobody I just snap back into reality.
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u/fatsopiggy 8h ago
I don't know why these types of people (the ones that write stories like kcd and GTA and all these curmudgeon post modernist realist literary critics and writers) tend to hate on "teenagers" and anything fantastical or hopeful. I mean, I get it. You write a different story. Stop acting like a pick me guy lmao.
Also weird attitude to have when you're expected to adapt the lord of the rings.
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u/Violent_Jiggler 8h ago
Yeah, so if you read the article it's not nearly as negative as the headline implies (shocking) nor are the quoted bits that bad.
"I play a lot of RPGs, it's a genre I really like," he said. "I was really and I still am bored and tired of all the RPGs when you are this chosen one, when you have this grand task of saving the universe .. The games that are these really straightforward power fantasies. It's not that I think it's somehow wrong in principle. There is nothing bad about a good power fantasy. It's just, it's so repetitive."
I know we all read the article and there's no reason to point this out, but still. Also
everybody's going to think that I am hating on Expedition 33 right now, but that's definitely not the case.
lol
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u/Real_UngaBunga 8h ago
There's some hybrid games like Final Fantasy 16 where you are a 30 year old chosen one lol
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u/ph30nix01 8h ago edited 7h ago
be interesting to have a game with an NPC Hero that is basicly your competition. To the point where if you fall behind they become the primary antagonist *protaganist and you end up turning into a support character.
edit: whoops thanks for the correction
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u/TheBugThatsSnug 9h ago
Is this the same interview where he said he hopes GTA will push games to be 80 dollars?
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u/jjason82 3h ago
There's space for both. Some days I just want to be some guy, and other days I'm decompressing from a ROUGH day of being yelled at by customers all day and I just want to feel like a god for 90 minutes.
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u/RetardedOnTuesdays 8h ago
Considering Henry’s story in KCD 1, he has no room to talk. Bro is a nepo baby and gets bailed out because of it.
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u/Raffle-Taffle 8h ago
I have no issue with chosen one stories. What I do have issues with are when the stakes are too high and or too personal from the get go. This is more-so an issue in open world rpgs. I find it impedes on my ability to engage in the world itself if I know that it is ending and I am the only one who can stop it.
I prefer when the intro and stakes are way less intrinsically tied to some world ending event or a deeply personal matter and just lets me explore and improve for a bit.
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u/FluffySheepCritic 7h ago edited 7h ago
I'm always skeptical of people who reject the Hero's Journey, or play it off as nothing more than a power fantasy. I can't help but notice that many people now days do reject it's elements, such as voluntary exposure to challenge or adversity, taking on responsibility, or embracing unifying narratives.
Being the "Chosen One" is the same as being given responsibility. You must leave the order of the known, and face the chaos of the unknown. By voluntarily rising to challenge and struggle and slaying your greatest fears you transform, becoming much stronger. In triumphing against chaos, you wield the necessary components to restore order where it has become stagnant or corrupt.
It's a story that's been told as long as humans have existed, because it's not just some "power" fantasy, it's a narrative that defines objective human truth, and motivates us to take on the journey in our own lives.
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u/Lance_J1 7h ago edited 7h ago
Caring about games being immature and only wanting to play super mature games is something I really cared about when I was a teenager.
To be even more clear, whether the main character is some regular person or a mythical chosen one is a plot element, and caring about the individual plot elements or thinking they have some relationship to the quality or maturity of a title is inherently an immature and undeveloped idea. Something for kids and teens who think what makes a story good/bad is the individual story beats and not the actual good stuff.
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u/ChiChiKnee 8h ago
I’m sorry to say, but if you want an RPG that isn’t a “chosen one”/power focussed game then you kind of have to remove certain game elements the first being combat. A significant component of RPGs is designed around the improvement in how you deal with situations, the majority being centered around combat.
I am all for RPGs that are adult in nature, and not for teenagers, but what he seems to be aiming for is more of a “life sim” than an RPG.
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u/ggallardo02 9h ago
I don't think the power fantasy of being the chosen one and powerful is reserved for teenagers.
I do think that the gaming industry is big enough, and there are enough gamers so we can have power fantasy RPGs and grounded ones at the same time, and both can be enjoyed by anyone. Regardless of age.
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u/FribonFire 8h ago
I get it, but I don't know what game ot is if it's a 60-80+ hour rpg where you level up but never become so powerful that you're a defacto chosen one or saving the day at the end.
It's somewhat just a necessity of the genre. Disco Elyisium is a great adult, non chosen RPG, but I wouldn't want to play a three times as long version of it.
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u/Traceur_G 7h ago
I've always thought a Kelly's Heroes (the 1970 Clint Eastwood movie) type of game would be awesome. There's a huge war/conflict going on but you're not a savior. You're just a common soldier trying to make a buck and survive till it's over. Along the way you get stronger, find better equipment, etc, but it's made clear throughout that you're just a tiny cog in an otherwise massive endeavor.
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u/anetia_exe 8h ago
being the chosen one is fine. being told the world ends tomorrow and then spending three days collecting cabbages is where you lose me.
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u/LateStageBBQ 8h ago
Yes I know ciri is missing but can you help me recover this cast iron skillet
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u/planeforger 7h ago
In fairness, that quest was great. I was pretty hyped when I realised it was hinting at the return of one of the better characters from the first game.
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u/mr_ji 8h ago
Try making a game where someone else is the chosen one and it's impossible to defeat the final boss, or even meet them, and see how that works out for you.
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u/rockmanzerox06 7h ago edited 7h ago
I have this desire to play an RPG where you are lead to believe you are the main protagonist but it turns out a prophecy was misinterpreted. It instead applied to a minor but beloved aging character you aid in the end who ended up doing a ton in the background, unnoticed.
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u/KyokenShaman 7h ago
Well, yeah. Being the chosen one is awesome! Especially when your life isn't all that great. It would be nice to have more variety, but the audience prefers being the hero, so there is that.
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u/jl_theprofessor Switch 8h ago
What the fuck game is he talking about? It’s not Baldur’s Gate 3. It’s not Witcher 3. It’s not Expedition 33. It’s not Elden Ring. It’s not Final Fantasy VII. It’s not Persona.
Literally these games feature people of no renown, the rejects, and people victim to much larger forces. There’s no god choosing anyone here.
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u/earhere 8h ago
Pretty much every Persona game the world is going to end unless you stop it and you end up fighting god. You pretty much are the chosen one.
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u/LateStageBBQ 8h ago
Ehhhhh I think the idea that a reject who doesn’t matter is “chosen” to fight gods and save the world is precisely the template. Think Frodo. My dispute is that the hero narrative isn’t inherently adolescent. But E33, BG3 and FF7 all very much fall into the classic “hero’s journey” narrative that he’s critiquing.
AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Most games do.
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u/Lambeaux 5h ago
Final Fantasy 7 literally has you literally hand the world ender McGuffin to the villain, fail to save your damsel, and realize halfway through you are not the protaganist, because he died years ago, just some traumatized failure of a nobody. It's like a direct subversion of the chosen one and hero journey tropes.
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u/GeraldofKonoha 8h ago
Most video game rpgs are power fantasies because video games are power fantasies. The Hero trope is the most commonly used as it would explain why you’re able to destroy shit while telling a coherent story.
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u/RogerMelian 9h ago
And where is the problem in that? Not every rpg has to be about a medieval random dude or a depressed adult team.
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u/DanTheDrywall 8h ago
He specifically says that this is neither good nor bad, just that it becomes repititive when a majority of games are like that. He is not critizing power fantasys in games in general. I very much agree since kcd felt refreshing in that sense.
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u/Caelinus 8h ago
The only thing I kind of disagree with him on is that such games are made for teenagers. That is needlessly infantalizing. Life kinda sucks for adults a lot of the time, and I live my whole life as a normal person with very little actually power.
As a teenager I was much more willing to believe that I might become a notable person, even if I thought it was a pretty low chance. But now I know that most powerful people suck, and the only thing that is good about it is money, but that in turn ends up making you suck.
So I feel like escapist games that let us decompress and return to worlds where good actually wins and we have the power to enact it are very much still targetted at adults. It is not popular because of kids, it is popular because fake worlds being invaded by demons are often more fun than being a citizen in a world where the demons are just other people.
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u/ProoniusFizzle 9h ago
Luckily, there's only like 10 of those and the entire rest of the genre should cater to your taste.
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u/maximousseh 7h ago
I would love a game where you get blown over and over again by frieza.
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u/LectricVersion 8h ago
I'm pushing 40 and RPGs are among several genres of media that I consume that are "aimed at teenagers".
Who cares. Just enjoy stuff.
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u/Vegan-cock 8h ago
Couldn't agree more. When you're the chosen one your often quite limited in your role. The more freedom and the more sandboxy the better in my opinion.
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u/SiriusBaaz 8h ago
I mean I certainly don’t mind those kinds of stories but I understand the sentiment. I also really like it when you’re just a dude that happens to be in the right place at the right time and gets sucked into the plot because of it.
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u/Hadrian23 8h ago
I want a game story where you're going to lunch, get pulled into some bullshit involving saving the world. And the entire time your character bitches "I just wanted a fucking sandwich dude ..." And after saving the world, you finally get your lunch.
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u/EntMoose 8h ago
Sounds like chrono trigger. Dude just wanted to go to the fair.
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u/project-shasta PC 8h ago
I mean most games follow the trope of the hero's journey because it makes for a good story most of the time. I feel the way these story get told is getting old by now and we need a new spin. Maybe something of the likes of Life of Brian with a protagonist who really just wishes to be left alone but gets dragged from one epic questline to the next.
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u/SpoofSide 9h ago
Yeah, do it like fallout 2, where you're the chosen one but no one gives a shit or they think you're a lunatic.