r/gaming • u/Asianboiforwhitedad • 10h ago

Kingdom Come Deliverance studio co-founder says a lot of RPGs are 'still games for teenagers,' and that he's 'tired of all the RPGs where you are this chosen one'

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/kingdom-come-deliverance-studio-co-founder-says-a-lot-of-rpgs-are-still-games-for-teenagers-and-that-hes-tired-of-all-the-rpgs-where-you-are-this-chosen-one/
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u/slip_and_fall_school 10h ago

In a way, he's not wrong.

However, even in games like KCD 1&2 where it is explicitly and repeatedly made clear that you're a nothing and nobody you still get to a point where Henry is a terminator.

Not really sure how to balance the "just a regular guy" ethos and the wish fulfillment and player agency that most gamers desire, or at least I haven't found a game that hits the sweet spot.

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u/7screws 9h ago

Well.. you could also spin it a little that if you put the time in you could become something might be more realistic

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u/NiceTrySuckaz 8h ago

Hell yeah. A game where you grind for twelve years to get promoted to junior level executive at a bread distribution company

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u/7screws 7h ago

The end end game is getting laid off at 50 and trying to find a job in the AI market

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u/LeGrats 6h ago

But the side quest where you cheat on your wife with the housekeeper and destroy your marriage and finances was pretty well fleshed out and entertaining

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u/Coffeeey 6h ago

Ooooh look at Mr. Money Bags here who could afford the housekeeper DLC

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u/Jay_Nova1 3h ago

I mean now we're just doing Schwarzenegger RPG simulation at this point.

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u/REDDITATO_ 1h ago

A simulation of an RPG.

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u/TheBrickWithEyes 6h ago

I love a good fantasy game!

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u/Giovannis_Pikachu 6h ago

"this guy's taken Roy off the grid. He doesn't have a social security number!"

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u/machine1979 3h ago

Pressure washer simulator and after 9 months of daily samey tasks you get canned

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u/Altruistic-Ad-408 9h ago

This is my problem with criticisms of the chosen one trope, it's always coming from people that are fine with plot armour, action hero protags and so on, every character is chosen by the author, making it official in universe just lets you do more with it, if need be.

I'd rather see people play around with expectations than deny them on principle. It's juvenile to call it juvenile, especially if you're not even trying to do something deeply mature, dude makes a power fantasy about swordfighting.

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u/PowerSamurai 9h ago

I think you are misunderstanding the issue. The issue is not that you are the main character in the story since that is always the case. It is that it restricts role play, who your character is and in game it is a tired trope.

It is interesting to explore fantasy worlds through several lenses and especially in an rpg to define yourself within the world through your decisions.

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u/kueso 9h ago

Yea, I think there’s a difference between “you’re born to save the world” à la Legend of Zelda types of stories and the “you’re put in a situation where you get challenged and have to make the best of it”. I think both tell hero stories but one has more moral quandaries and leaves room for difficult decisions.

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u/FarrMixture 8h ago

Yeah, that distinction makes a lot of sense. Being thrown into a situation and rising to it feels way more satisfying than being destined for it from the start

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u/VruKatai1972 8h ago

Or, you get a game like BG3 that was so well written, the player can take any moral path they want and the story allows for those choices.

As others have said, this isn't actually a gameplay issue as we're always the player. It's really a writing issue in the stories told and that's where player=savior is the real implication of any trope. Some of the best stories that games get built around have really ambiguous endings and journeys to those endings.

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u/EremiticFerret 7h ago

It isn't *only* a writing issue, it is a development issue as well. You need the time and resources to develop all those side paths and different approaches to the problem.

It is far, far easier and faster to develop the game so you can't avoid the Druid Grove, then the Druids are invulnerable so you can't be evil and wipe them out and the forced into the "find Halsin" quest. Arguably the writing is the easiest part going from that to what we got.

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u/FlailToMace 6h ago

Or, you get a game like BG3 that was so well written, the player can take any moral path they want and the story allows for those choices.

That has yet to be anywhere close to done. BG3 is a great game, but the writing doesn't take into account that healers are a thing. It is like how DBZ tries to pretend there are stakes, when multiple forms of dragon balls are a thing. Only in reverse.

Divine magic that can bring people back from the dead is a thing. I quite specifically created a character that can do such a thing. They even have a scroll of true rez in their backpack. It can bring someone back to life even if there isn't a body.

Someone got hit with an arrow however so nothing can be done. They shouldn't have been an NPC.

BG3 might be the least railroaded campaign in any D&D video game, but it is still a railroad with a pretty simple track. An option to bottom for a bear doesn't change that.

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u/s0ck 6h ago

That magic exists, and as per the rules, typically comes at heavy cost, far beyond what your average adventurer could afford.

GMs typically waive that part away, but the rules as written define the setting and world. Hence, getting hit by an arrow and dying isn't unusual. It's still the expected outcome for the overwhelming majority of characters in the setting.

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u/FlailToMace 4h ago

That magic exists, and as per the rules, typically comes at heavy cost, far beyond what your average adventurer could afford.

... unless a cleric PC who is super into healing just happens to be twenty feet from you.

BG3 is expansive. You can kill anyone, talk to anyone, flirt with anyone, and even engage in acts of pseudo bestiality. It is however on rails that disallow basic interactions. Such as using the ability you have specifically to stop the thing that that is happening in front of you from happening.

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u/Normal-Cellist205 3h ago

A player character of sufficient level can pretty easily heal or even resurrect people. Yes, in lore healing magic is rare and expensive and difficult to learn, but that doesn’t translate to the actual mechanics of D&D, where a PC can learn that magic on level-up and use it all the time. 

By extension, BG3 has the same problem, only it’s worse obvious because it’s a video game. A sufficiently quick-thinking dungeon master can change the story or circumstances so that a key NPC being revived does not break the story. A game can’t change on the fly, so when you try to revive an NPC whose revival would break the story, the game just says "nuh uh, you can’t use that magic this time" without elaboration.

It’s an unavoidable problem but I can 100% understand why it might be frustrating or immersion-breaking.

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u/ash_ninetyone 7h ago

Unless somehow someone manages to make a story work where you're just some guy that happens to save the world whilst the actual hero takes the credit.

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u/SpeculativeFiction 8h ago

>This is my problem with criticisms of the chosen one trope, it's always coming from people that are fine with plot armour, action hero protags and so on, every character is chosen by the author, making it official in universe just lets you do more with it, if need be.

I don't see a lot of criticism of chosen ones in games, honestly. Usually it's people who prefer power fantasy vs those who favor gritty realism mechanics and difficulty.

In books, the Chosen one trope is looked down on these days for a few reasons.

  1. The chosen one is essentially boring and talentless, and being the chosen one is the only thing that makes them stick out, which makes them a boring character.
  2. They're a Mary Sue.
  3. They're a decently interesting character, but being the chosen one still robs a lot of the tension or meaning from their character. After all, if they're the "chosen one" then weren't they fated to win anyway? "Fate" being a thing means the plot is basically on rails, so what's the point? Even if victory isn't guaranteed, it rarely feels that way.
  4. Prophecy (about chosen ones or in general) is useless or easily averted. Game of thrones has a bit of this. Some minor things come true, but otherwise it's either so vague it could be anything or trivially diverted. Plus there are tons of false dreams/prophecies. In which case it feels pointless.

I think the only examples I like are people spreading false prophecies about a chosen one or altering real ones.

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u/goatanuss 9h ago

Reminds me of that life sim Real Lives where it’s based off actual statistics and demographic data of real life and you get fun gameplay like “you were murdered at age 4”

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u/Arch____Stanton 7h ago

I suppose you could have a game wherein the player doesn't participate and simply watches what happens.
Generally, those kinds of games are called 'movies'.

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u/Kougeru-Sama 6h ago

if you put the time in you could become something might be more realistic

that's not realistic at all, though lol

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u/Shiriru00 9h ago

The problem with the "chosen one" trope is not really the power creep, it's that the whole world revolves around you.

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u/OrdinaryFrosting1 8h ago

And then in Skyrim nobody even acknowledges that you're a demigod and try and attack you for walking down the road like you're some roving trader

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u/Spinyhug 7h ago

I'm the archmage, head of all the guilds, yelling words in languages unspoken for thousands of years, creating magic unseen in living memory.

... Apparently, I still don't go to the Cloud District, and look like somebody stole my sweet roll.

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u/fake_user_34 6h ago

I got a talking shelf following me now with infinite space for storage. I have a flaming sword and my armor is colored like the Sweden flag. I can summon meatballs.

I am also a vampire lord. But apparently bandits still try to stop me...and I love it.

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u/Rosary_Omen 5h ago

That IKEA mod is hilarious

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u/fake_user_34 5h ago

Literally the reason I reinstalled the game again and play after like 4 years. I saw the teaser of it, thought "this is fucking stupid, I am so going to try it out". I love it.

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u/Wolfdude91 2h ago

The other day, I sat at my table. The Dovahkiin walked into my house uninvited. He approached me and eyed the wheel of cheese in front of me.

Placing a pot over my head, he took my wheel of cheese and said “No one will ever believe you.” Before leaving my home.

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u/helixguy 1h ago

Yeah right buddy. Hitting the Skooma hard lately I see.

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u/Phantom-_-Wizard 7h ago

And that's why skyrim does an interesting thing with the chosen one trope. I Mean word would spread about you, but they have no idea what the dragon born looks like. And it's so funny and fun because it feels like a mugger has just hit the jackpot of bad days, and you get to play the "so, you have chosen death" card.

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u/9966 7h ago

What about the farmer who sees you accidentally kill a chicken and walks up to a dude in gigantic armor glowing with a matching glowing sword and lightning shooting out of their hands ... And decides ... Today is the day.

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u/Fuliginlord 6h ago

Maybe it is that farmers turn to be a Chosen One, did you ever thi…. and the farmer is dead..

Maybe the farmer thought he was in Dungeon Siege.

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u/froop 4h ago

Armor really needs an intimidation stat or something to influence NPC behavior

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u/Kelly_HRperson 1h ago

It's previously been established that random roaming bandits can have full Daedric armor, so people aren't used to someone actually powerful showing up in it

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u/Sancticide 5h ago

No more tyranny! Skyrim is for the Nords and I am taking a STA-aaaaannnnndd, I'm dead. [eyes roll back]

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u/Syssareth 3h ago

-aaaaannnnndd, I'm dead. [eyes roll back]

I read this in the voice of that one hognose snake video, lmao.

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u/Lee1138 4h ago

Maybe they don't know what you look like, but a common bandit going "let's rob the guy wearing armor made from dragon bone and has a magical swirly light sword" was never a recipe for a long and fruitful life 

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u/LOTRfreak101 3h ago

In there defense, how is a bandit supposed to know what dragon bone looks like? They haven't existed for hundreds or thousands of years. It isn't like normal bones would make for great armor.

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u/Machinimix 2h ago

I've had a bandit try and mug me while I was in lycan form...it's just that the random encounters aren't designed to look at what state you're in or your completion status to change how they interact.

Which is fine and I personally don't play Skyrim for those sort of interactions.

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u/Xreshiss 6h ago

Everytime I consider skyrim I wonder what the game would be like if I could trade places with the companion. Have someone else be the dragonborn for a change.

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u/aziruthedark 4h ago

Hod keeps attacking. Sure, I was ranscaking his house, but still.

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u/tempinator 7h ago edited 7h ago

That's certainly the other extreme lmao. But I honestly prefer that comedy to, for example, WoW's storytelling between WoD and BfA where you were jesus christ come again and everyone bowed and scraped at your feet and the whole universe revolved around you. Thankfully they've moved away from that lately.

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u/Lawlcopt0r 8h ago

You get to a point where it's weird that the world doesn't revolve around you when you're a one man army

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u/Dartz_Reverse 7h ago

RPG idea: Generic zero to hero story, but after you defeated the BBEG, the entire world will gradually start fearing you because you're even more dangerous.

Tbf I read that kinda plot in a bunch of trashy mangas.

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u/Fargoth_took_my_ring 6h ago

Fable always aimed for stuff like that

I am interested to see what they do with the new one

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u/Dartz_Reverse 6h ago

Never saw people fear me in Fable for doing good, only if I went evil.

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u/Fargoth_took_my_ring 6h ago

Muggers and low-level bandits will run scared of you though, in at least one of the titles I'm sure

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u/Dartz_Reverse 6h ago

Oh... right...

I... may have just overlooked that muggers and bandits are "people".

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u/Natedogg5693 1h ago

This feels racist, but I don’t know why…

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u/eric23456 7h ago

Yea, the Elder Scrolls games are full of this problem. Once I'm wandering around in full enchanted daedric armor, the correct response from most mobs would be to run in fear, not to assault or threaten me.

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u/Ricochet64 7h ago

all Skyrim should know about the horrific massacre at Goldenglow Estate

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u/SilveryDeath Xbox 4h ago

And if they implemented that people would complain about how when you get to a certain point in the game there are no human enemies to fight.

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u/eric23456 3h ago

Yea, probably. I'd be fine with that for the ones where I can just punch them to death.

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u/Magnusg 2h ago

Pov:

Some mediocre wizard decided to cast a series of spells to protect a special mediocre ring in a graveyard buried 1000 years ago. Well you did your job and now the graveyard isn't visible and convered in 1000 years of volcanic ash, storm run off and new vegetation.

Along trapses this a hole in clearly mythic tier equipment with energy brimming from his orifaces speaking words of power the world forgot an aeon before your summoner was alive.

First a hole you've seen in 1000 years. Now unfortunately you're just a dumb spirit imbued with a mediocre level of power enough to scare a small hamlet, you don't really have a choice in how this all goes down. It's over quick and it is what it is.

But now your eternal soul is free to roam and you see jerks on the internet criticizing your after life choices. And all you can do is think oh yeah? Big guy? What would you do? Do you have the words of command that would set me free? What exactly is the choice you would make? Maybe just maybe it's been 1000 years of guarding this stupid piece of metal and you're just about ready to go anyways!!

nobodyaskedtobeamobinthefirstplace

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u/Polantaris 6h ago

But the distinction is in the story versus the gameplay.

In KCD, you're never beyond getting murdered by the story for being a regular shmuck that says the wrong thing or does the wrong thing. If you die, the story could theoretically go on without you (even if it doesn't in the game).

In games like Skyrim, you're the chosen one. The other characters might not like it, but you can't really do much wrong. You have special powers that no one else has and those inherently give you a special title and position that others aren't able ignore. Your death means the end of all things.

This distinction is more towards what they're saying than the eventual power creep of playing too long.

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u/GandalfTheGay_69 6h ago

Even just playing the game, if some regular ass bandits get the drop on you and they get 2-3 lucky hits in, you're pretty much dead.

Henry also just doesn't win anything by himself. Yes he contributes a lot (the game would be boring if he didn't), but so far he has never been the most important person in the room.

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u/DeltaJesus 5h ago

but so far he has never been the most important person in the room.

I'm not sure that's quite true, he has more status than most non nobility by the end of 2, and he's absolutely key in several major battles.

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u/PiccoloAwkward465 5h ago

One man army is kinda annoying but I don't think many games have done teams very well either.

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u/localpauper 8h ago

I always found that refreshing in The Wticher series. Witcher is a total badass, but he's just a drop in the stream of reality. The world does not require his existence to continue.

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u/Bryligg 7h ago

Right, Geralt is a professional. This implies a profession. The world does not revolve around him because he is but one of many badasses a cut above the common people. He has protagonist/player character agency, but that's rare rather than unique. If he doesn't solve the problem, the quest giver can always just hire somebody else.

Honestly The Witcher is a great setting for an MMO.

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u/localpauper 5h ago

Speaking of MMOs, that's been my biggest disappointment with more recent installment of WoW, and most other major MMOs. In Vanilla WoW, the PC was a total shmuck, one of a myriad. If the PC dies, the dragons will be fought by other people, the orcs will still come, and be defeated by other heroes and faction leaders. The PC was a warrior among many.

Nowadays, the PC is on first-name basis with every faction leader, is treated like they are part of a tiny select elite force. Heck, in Shadowlands it was even implied that you were The One for certain classes, as by lore There Can Be Only One.

MMOs fundamentally are incongruous with chosen heroes. That's always been the biggest pet peeve of mine: you made a huge world populated by all manner of setting and story, yet somehow you made me - the PC - pivotal to its progress, in a world full of other people, who are The Chosen One in their own canon.

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u/Cheet4h 4h ago

This is part of why I usually prefer sandbox MMOs (EVE Online, Ultima Online) over theme park MMOs. Especially Ultima Online has quite a number of roleplay freeshards, and the engine actually supports that properly (unlike trying to shoehorn RP gameplay in a theme park MMO).

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u/SnooCats3468 6h ago

I liked that about Cyberpunk as well. CDPR has some folks who know what's up

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u/MobiusF117 6h ago

Cyberpunk takes it to a whole new level, honestly.
Whatever ending you get, the world keeps spinning and Night City remains the same.

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u/TheAndrewBrown 8h ago

Yeah his comments don’t seem to have anything to do with becoming unstoppable, it’s that all RPGs revolve around huge, world ending events.

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u/gamegeek1995 7h ago

Then there's RPGs where you effectively cause the huge, world-ending events, which otherwise would've been avoided if your character just stayed home (Tales of Symphonia)

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u/MeadKing 6h ago

To be fair, I don't think this is limited to just RPGs. It feels like most games have some cataclysmic threat hanging overhead, not to mention the over-saturation of that storyline in other media like movies.

There's a desire to demonstrate that the stakes have been raised, and bad writers don't seem to trust their audience to determine "They're the bad guys" without having the threat be world-ending in scale.

Sometimes it's nice to have a low-stakes adventure. Low-stakes might be the wrong word considering that personal vendettas and chasing your dreams can have a large importance to the core cast of characters, but not every story needs to involve the threat of extinction.

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u/gamegeek1995 7h ago

Not a lot of games where you get to play a boring farmer while the NPCs do really cool stuff. Or movies. Or TV. Nobody wants to play the Xander Harris in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer video game.

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u/Anempacamunt 8h ago

If it was balanced, were at the start of the game no one gives a funk about your existence, but as you progress trough the game you start seeing characters recognising you and your feats, eventually starting to see you as the chosen one, not because you actually are, but because of your accomplishments, that would be great

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u/Shadowmirax 6h ago

Final Fantasy XIV does this. You do have a sort of chosen one thing going on from the beginning but its not really the reason your famous, just something that gets helps get your foot in the door.

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u/ThatCoolDPS 9h ago
  • I liked the story of KCD but saying Henry is a nobody is ... hem

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u/Original_Employee621 6h ago

All Henry is, is Lord Capons squire. He just happens to be the guy in the right place, at mostly the right time. His bastard blood gives him a little leeway, but it's the countryside and they are at war.

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u/ThatCoolDPS 6h ago

Not really, his fate in KCD 1 is in part due to who he actually is. It does not mean we do not start from scratch, but not so many in Skalitz had this chance after the invasion

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u/GT-Alex74 5h ago

I'd say a good first half of KCD1 doesn't hang on Henry's blood, Divish and Robard most likely wouldn't be able to tell who Henry is, even if Radzig confided the affair to them. Henry is lucky to have escape Skalitz alive in the first place. With his achievements, and the situation in the region, I feel like Henry would still have been entrusted to some of the tasks Hanush gave him at least due to his wits and resilience. Worst case scenario, he would have spent more time in Talmberg and maybe not have interacted with Hans Capon much.

Radzig's influence definitely shifts things for Henry towards the late game, but I don't think it would have been enough without Henry's self earned credibility. Even Radzig didn't really want to involve him much until Henry proved himself to be too valuable of an asset to waste.

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u/larpinabout 4h ago

There's a decent contrast between what we initially perceive him as and who he truly is, but in the grand scheme of things he is still a nobody. His background gets him some opportunities sure, but it's not like he's a damn prince.

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u/damhow 9h ago

Who wants to play an adventure RPG where you don’t become an impactful person? You can’t be regular and highly impactful, it’s a bit of an oxymoron.

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u/Desertcow 9h ago

Tbf one of the most praised RPGs of the last decade is about an alcoholic cop in a backwater city solving one minor murder case

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u/Zenspy-Real 8h ago

Not exactly minor since that one murder was about to trigger the death of the whole town, if Harry wasn't there then it would have been a massacre.

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u/Taliesin_ 4h ago

Big spoiler from Sacred & Terrible Air, the novel that takes place ~20 years after the events of Disco Elysium, you have been warned: Revachol has a nuclear bomb dropped on it, and the rest of the world is rapidly consumed by an accelerating Pale amidst a bloody global war.

So yeah, ultimately, Harry's case is a blip on the radar. And it doesn't need to be more than that to be incredibly interesting all the same.

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u/OkkRespect 9h ago

that’s a pretty good counterexample. Disco Elysium shows you can be a complete mess of a person and still have a meaningful impact without becoming some unstoppable hero.

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u/EarthRester 8h ago

I'm a Hobo-Cop, and I'm here to start Communism! Now give me a bite of that sandwich!

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u/Pipe_Memes 8h ago

Now watch me shoot a ten year old dead for mouthing off to me and end the game in the first 30 minutes.

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u/delahunt 7h ago

"Watch me die because I'm an unfit fuck and I tried too hard to get my tie in the first 5 minutes."

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u/PsychedelicPill 7h ago

Happened to my first try

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u/TallBoy24 4h ago

Fuck Cuno that foul mouthed cunt lmfao , although it was cathartic to get him to right his ways and make him realize his dad is an alcoholic drug addicted chud

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u/TheVog 5h ago

I want to say she had a weapon in my playthrough, but maybe I was blinded by rage

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u/MonaganX 7h ago

A complete mess of a person that's strongly implied to have genuinely paranormal abilities though.

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u/DrTornado 5h ago

Strongly implied by the voices in his head*

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u/TheVog 5h ago

And while being an incredible fuck-up! There are so so many scenes where this plays out. We're not talking fuck-ups like Cloud saying something awkward in FF7 here, we're talking about shooting a child in a vacant lot.

DE is one of the wildest and greatest games of all time.

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u/raznov1 6h ago

Sure, but how many disco elysiums do we need?

Its a game, and narrative style, thats certainly not for wveryone. At least, it wasnt for me.

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u/ShinyGrezz 8h ago

I haven’t played it, I’ll say that upfront, but I’m sure that the MC of Disco Elysium is still important within the boundaries of the plot’s scope.

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u/chipmunksocute 8h ago

Yeah in the sense he's trying to stop a gang war massacre but his actions have no larger world ramifications like solving a major conflict, saving the day, whatever.  You're just a fucked up washed out cop who used to be good trying to solve a murder in the slums.  You're still just a cop when all's said and done

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u/Ktulusanders 8h ago

This isn't necessarily true depending on how you choose to resolve the dispute between the union and the board

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u/NibblyPig 4h ago

Interestingly I played about 30 mins of this game and thought, christ my character should just kill himself, why would I want to play a game where I'm an absolute chronic fucked up miserable loser. Then I uninstalled it.

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u/Teantis 3h ago

Because there are wider stories that are interesting than power fantasies. And cRPGs can be a story telling platform beyond with a wider set of stories than just a stats go up and I kill stuff better type of story

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u/DaisyCutter312 8h ago

Isn't that exactly why KCD2 is?

Henry impacts Henry-level things, but regardless of what you do, Sigismund is still going to take the throne and history marches on.

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u/EriktheRed 6h ago

Well, except for that one secret ending…

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u/Crash_Test_Dummy66 9h ago

I think an RPG where you can be impactful in smaller capacities while ultimately being only one mostly insignificant piece in a much broader world is very compelling.

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u/nunuandknuckles 9h ago

isnt this essentially what Stardew Valley and some other farming sims with RPG elements accomplish?

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u/-SaC 8h ago

"Welcome to Stardew Valley! Now, as well as fixing up this entire farm on your own despite having zero farming experience (we're not going to help you, sorry), we'd also like you to sort ot the community centre on your own.

Oh, and the library/museum guy said to mention he wants you to single-handedly recover all of the books that've gone missing, as well as entirely building the museum collection of minerals and fossils. You should get on that.

If you need anything... well, don't bother asking any of us. We'll only be your friend if you give us presents constantly. You might get a recipe or something in return if you give us enough of them, but nobody will bother coming round to see how you're doing or if you need any help. Once you've done all your own stuff, you can pay for new houses for people and improving the community on your own. Bye now!

PS: find my undies for me, since I can't be bothered to check the bedroom floor of the woman I'm shagging but don't want anyone to know I'm shagging."

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u/Auctoritate 6h ago

The original comment mentioned being important in small capacities and being one insignificant piece of a much broader world.

Your examples for "Look at how important you are in Stardew though" includes such things as 'Fixing up a single farm you inherited,' and 'Restocking the local library,' which I think proves the concept pretty firmly.

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u/CoconutNL 8h ago edited 8h ago

Yeah you need stuff to do in a game. I think youre really reaching here. This isnt "chosen one", youre just the guy who goes into the mines, or the guy who farms, the guy who explores a bit, the guy who is relatively new so the mayor can ask his embarrassing request before rumours spread. The museum guy asks the guy who digs up soil to bring him stuff digged up from the soil, including the lost books. He isnt ordering you to get everything. He's joking that maybe one day the museum will be full again. Then you can actually do that, because games have limits and you can find every item.

They arent asking the farmer to fix the internet cables or georges tv or whatever, because that isnt what the farmer does. The requests you get relate to the things you already do in your day to day life. Thats how games work, how collecting games work.

Nothing is really significant to the grand world. You just help around the village, and you make sure the supermarket chain goes away (or you side with the supermarket). Youre really reaching

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u/oath2order 7h ago

Oh, and the library/museum guy said to mention he wants you to single-handedly recover all of the books that've gone missing

No, he doesn't. He doesn't address the books at all.

as well as entirely building the museum collection of minerals and fossils. You should get on that.

"Hey, if you find any artifacts or minerals out there... would you let me know?"

He words it as completely optional.

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u/dalledeverre 8h ago

This is what Dragon Age 2 did. If the player character wasn't there at all, everything would have gone down in pretty much the same way. You make a name for yourself, impact individual lives, and participate in the big world-changing events, but ultimately all of it is beyond your capacity to control, all you can do is choose where you want to stand and who stands with you in the midst of it.

It was poorly recieved at the time it dropped because it was rushed, and there are things about it that could have been done better, but the central idea that some major events are already in motion no matter what we do as the player, that was fun. Everything we did still felt impactful on the interpersonal level, just not the macro one, so it was still satisfying without being deifying.

It made me think that I'd love an RPG where we're recruited to the party of the chosen one, with personal quests, love interests, and character growth, but we're just another companion who can die and the hero's story goes on without us.

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u/Terramagi 8h ago

It made me think that I'd love an RPG where we're recruited to the party of the chosen one, with personal quests, love interests, and character growth, but we're just another companion who can die and the hero's story goes on without us.

That's just FF10.

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u/Lord_Bolt-On 8h ago

It's why I think DA2 is the best of the franchise. The character and scenario writing is so unbelievably strong that it removes most of the negatives for me.

You don't always influence the world when you make a decision, but you always influence your party members. And you accidentally become important to this city, all because you make a few choices that become very impactful in hindsight. I find that so much more interesting than "this person who happens to be something like a hero is now the person we look to in order to save the world!"

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u/goonbandito 6h ago

I agree, DA2 is me favourite of the trilogy for those reasons too (well, that and also because sarcastic fem-Hawke is just the best).

I think a lot of people couldn't look past the change in combat style from the first game combined with the constant recycled level layouts. Which is a shame, because the game has really strong writing.

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u/awc130 9h ago

Kinda the beauty of Warhammer 40k. You can destroy vast armies, save planets. But it is miniscule in the grand scheme.

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u/lew_rong 8h ago

And then along come the Grey Knights and execute you because in the course of saving that planet you saw things no mortal should witness without a heaping dose of Big E's personal gene seed.

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u/robsteezy 9h ago

Sorry but that just sounds so boringly silly.

“Oh my god! The world is about to be destroyed by this demon king! Quick! Are you the chosen one here to use this bad ass ancient weapon of the gods to battle him for the fate of mankind?!”

“Umm no. I’m actually the town librarian. I’m not here to fight the villain. I’m here to make sure that the town library books are returned on time. I’ll make sure the heroes’ favorite novels are always in stock.”

“Welcome to Black Flag! Ready to become the world’s greatest assassin and captain of the high seas?!

Umm no I’m just here to help him. I’m actually a seasonal worker here to row oar #6 in the back left of the boat.”

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u/Sciros 8h ago

Oar #6 is a pretty sweet gig where do I buy this game

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u/MrFeles 8h ago

"Are you here to carry the ring to Mordor and fuck up the Sour one?"

"Nah I'm just the gardener and the actual fucking hardass of the story, I carry the guy you're after."

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u/HH_Hobbies 8h ago

This is just a gross over simplification of what they're saying

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u/MaimedJester 8h ago

Well you can have a personal quest.  Like finding a legendary treasure or getting revenge on a single bad guy, not the legendary demon king starting the apocalypse. Like a game where you just avenge your father,  kinda like what Shenmue promised? I didn't play 3, but he was just dealing with local underworld gangs, it might have gone magical/ had the potential but eh i liked Shenmue 2 just starting off with Hong Kong Street thieves just stealing your backpack because you're an obvious tourist/ non local Japanese kid to take advantage of. 

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u/MostExperts 5h ago

The issue is with the premise - I've defeated so many demon kings now that it's just not that compelling tbh.

Detroit: Becoming Human is a good example of multiple protagonists whose driving motivation is "survive this dystopian world" which can range from "escape abuse and flee to Canada" to "be the best robocop ever made".

Never are the stakes made out to be "omg the whole world is going to explode if you don't kill the demon lord by friday (unless you want to spend 3 months playing cards in a tavern in which case kill the demon right after please)".

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u/Einfinet 9h ago

This is sorta how characters treat you in Kingdom Come, though I’d say you actually accomplish really significant stuff. People just overlook it or don’t care bc you aren’t true nobility

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u/Fellhuhn 8h ago

Besides what the others wrote it is kinda easy: You don't save the kingdom from the enemy armies - you save your family from that one rogue group of soldiers while you watch the armies duke it out. You don't affect the outcome of the war but you save your family. Emotionally a big win. But the world itself doesn't give a fuck. And that's okay.

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u/A_Vinegar_Taster 7h ago

Isn't it more impactful if you rise and succeed on your own merits as opposed to some arbitrary selection process that has nothing to do with you or your dedication?

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u/Aggravating-Dot132 9h ago

Easy. You just downplay the stakes. Yes, you eventually defeat the badguys, but if it will be a struggle and you go through lots of pain, it shows that you got lucky/tryharded. Take Jedi series. Cal Kestis isn't the chosen one, lots of strong sith or Jedi can defeat him. And you aren't saving the universe, you barely save your friends (some of them).

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u/Gastroid 9h ago

Well, in KCD2, the stakes feel incredible. Thwarting King Sigismund's plans? Surviving a drawn out castle siege? Helping decide the fates of so many people you've come to respect?

Even though a lot of the historical events in the game were embellished or happened out of chronical order, realistically all those amazing things experienced are footnotes or small Wikipedia articles at best compared to the long and prosperous life Sigismund had, and everything Zizka is known for happened years later.

I'd say those are pretty good stakes. They feel personal and huge to an individual like Henry, even though nothing that happened is even on bar trivia level.

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u/Djuulzor 9h ago

I think the regular guy thing has more to do with your place in the world instead of the capabilities you have. The chosen one is needed in by the world to oppose the cataclysmic story devise. If you were to take away a regular life goes on like any day.

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u/alezul 9h ago

However, even in games like KCD 1&2 where it is explicitly and repeatedly made clear that you're a nothing and nobody

Reminds of witcher, where you're constantly told you're an ugly freak while looking like a model with a sexy scar that can take on anything, including kinda the devil himself.

Not really sure how to balance the "just a regular guy" ethos

I'm sure there might be others but the only one i can think of right now is the walkin sim Road 96.

There you play as some random teenager trying to escape your country. The trick is that you're not "the chosen one" because once you reach the border, the game ends and you have a roguelike element where you can start a new run with a new kid to experience other adventures along the way.

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u/Gregregious 8h ago

Reminds of witcher, where you're constantly told you're an ugly freak while looking like a model with a sexy scar that can take on anything, including kinda the devil himself.

Witcher is really corny like this, there's a lot of complexity in the worldbuilding but you're still a sexy hypermasculine badass with a harem of supernaturally hot women who wanna fuck you. A lot of games think that the protagonist being gruff and stoic makes it more gritty but it's really just the easiest cipher for a certain power fantasy.

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u/Sugarbombs 5h ago

In the books Geralt and witchers are described as incredibly ugly which is partly why they are despised along with all the magic usage and monster hunting stuff. I get why they made him hot in the game but it really annoyed me that they still wrote dialogue suggesting he was some hideous freak. It was also why the Yennifer relationship was so interesting, because they are both ugly outcasts who grew up isolated and while Yennifer can change her appearance now she still loves that ugly little witchy boi, but no fuck her best friend because god forbid a female character is on screen and you can’t see boobs.

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u/Huttj509 3h ago

Genuinely I bounced hard off the first game round when it came out, because the setup felt so forced I've played literal porn games that felt less contrived. Literally in the intro "You are completely immune to disease, on the downside, you cannot have children." Then you save a farmgirl from some bandits, she rewards you with sex, and gives you a picturecard to commemorate it. Collect them all!

And hey, that disease immunity sure comes in handy since I'm not sure they had penicillin in Rivia.

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u/LateStageBBQ 9h ago

lol. I’d never really thought of that before and you’re 1000% right.

Geralt: I am a hideous freak Witcher, despised and feared.

(All panties fly off)

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u/Successful-Return-78 8h ago edited 8h ago

It makes sense in the books. He is desired only by sorceresses because all of them have perfect faces and he is an interesting freak.

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u/Tezoth 8h ago

he's also a magical being and magical objects feel like they're vibrating to sorceresses.

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u/urixl 8h ago

Vibrating... mmmkay :)

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u/delahunt 7h ago

The man knew what he was doing when writing the books. And CDPR knew what they were doing when translating them to games.

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u/LateStageBBQ 8h ago

Also a fair point

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u/Fellhuhn 8h ago

... and he is barren.

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u/coolRedditUser 7h ago

Why would that factor into their preferences? So are they. Even if they weren't, I'm sure there are magical solutions to that if it's an issue.

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u/LoboGuarah 8h ago

Except Henry isn't a nobody as he's the son of a Noble. A bastard, sure. But still the son of Radzig and has gotten away with many things in KCD1 just because of that blood relation.

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u/EternalCanadian PC 9h ago

It’s about how you frame things in relation to other characters, really.

Gears of War E-Day (not an RPG, but it’s applicable here due to story) does a good job at this, because your squad is just one of dozens foghting in a single city, and as you go through the game you link up with multiple other squads doing the same thing.

Resistance Fall of Man does similar, even with your character explicitly being special, it basically always frames things around other people, not just you, even if gameplay makes you important, the stiry doesn’t.

For example, in Resistance, the games’s final mission is about getting inside an alien tower to destroy it. A game where you’re the chosen one would phrase things as “…it was now up to Nathan Hale (the player character) to get inside and destroy the tower.” But Resistance actually frames it as “…it was now up to the few soldiers who had gotten inside the tower to destroy it.”

It’s a small thing, but it helps convey you’re not actually all that impressive because just by proxy, other characters are doing similar things.

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u/HiCracked 8h ago

The reality is nobody really wants to play as an absolute dipshit that can't do anything at all well, games are games after all. However, KCD1 made a much better effort in at least feeding you an illusion of you being a nobody, to the point where you couldn't even read without completing a quest.

In KCD2 you pretty much already start as a "Hero" and I'd argue that game doesn't even try to fool you in that regard.

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u/static_func 9h ago

Sure but growing into a badass is still way different from being a "chosen one" kind of character. The whole last arc of the game is still just you and your closest allies wasting away under siege, abandoned by allies bigger and more important than you, until you sneak out at night in a desperate Hail Mary move

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u/delahunt 7h ago edited 7h ago

I mean, that's also the last arc of Star Wars: A New Hope, and Luke Skywalker is absolutely a chosen one.

That is not meant to disparage KCD2 (or Star Wars) but the events that happen are not what differentiates the chosen one trope from some other trope. It's more the why behind it.

And while Henry is not a chosen one (the game is historical fiction and so doesn't have those prophecies) he is definitely way more special a boy than some everyman just from the first chunk of KCD1. Which is fine, you can be special and NOT be a chosen one. You have to be a little bit special to be a protagonist.

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u/fiercepanda 9h ago

Kenshi handles this very well. You truly feel like nobody and even at later points in the game you will still get your ass handed to you. There is no grand “main story” just a sandbox and people with their own stories and lives.

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u/Darkgorge 9h ago

Amusing because there is another comment on this same thread about how Kenshi still kind of suffers from this problem because the game world still relies on the player to really change the world in any significant way.

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u/TheProletarianMasses 9h ago

I think the first two Mafia games (which were written by the same writer as KCD, the other founder of Warhorse) do a really good job of staying grounded and letting you do important and influential things while reminding you that you're playing someone who will never have real power or control. That's pretty much the core of those games' message, and you can tell it's something the writer is constantly considering through his body of work.

Translating that to an open-ended RPG and giving the player a certain amount of freedom definitely has the potential to backfire by just lampshading what they can't control and making everything feel pointless, so devs usually put in options that are the best outcome and feel like the "correct" choices to most players. Not to mention that, mechanically, it's hard to make a game-especially an RPG-that can't be exploited to the point where you're essentially superhuman.

I think Morrowind is a good example of a game that justifies the 'chosen one' angle and leaves it ambiguous whether you were born for greatness or made yourself who you are, but it still ends with you as a super-powered force of nature.

New Vegas does a good job of not having a "correct" solution to every problem, but still lets you become ruler of everything.

Funnily enough, I feel like a lot of the more linear Japanese RPGs avoid the 'chosen one' language found in many of the more open games, but they almost universally end up with you killing god-like beings anyway. I imagine it's incredibly difficult to have a game like that where you feel a good sense of progression without a lot of escalation of scale in power level, conflict, etc.

This has been a problem people have been trying to solve in RPGs since Dungeons and Dragons, though.

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u/Rad131447 9h ago

Plus the main character in that KCD turns out to be a "special child" who also seems like the only one able to achieve anything (which is remarked on multiple times in game). So not really bunking the chosen one mythos entirely there.

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u/Andurilthoughts 9h ago

Fallout: New Vegas

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u/damhow 9h ago

You’re story in fallout is so fucking bad ass though lol.

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u/beyd1 9h ago

Uhhhh

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u/Joey_OConnell 9h ago

If you ignore the main quest in Skyrim, you're pretty much just some random that can shout like the old men in the mountains and some other guy the empire almost executed. I like that

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u/Nazrel 9h ago edited 6h ago

Huh... Skyrim might be one of the worst offender on that. You quickly become the leader of every guilds after 3 days. Become a nightingale, the listener, archmage, etc...

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u/WyleOut 7h ago

I don't know why becoming the leader of the guilds was even a thing. Like why can't I just be a normal member. Maybeeee be the leader of one guild but that locks you out of being the leader of any other guilds.

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u/angelo-merte89 9h ago

This! I was so dissapointing in the guild system…Skyrim is for me the most overrated „RPG“ ever

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u/Gregregious 8h ago

Skyrim is less about you as a character and more about experiencing the world. That said I always wondered why Bethesda even at their peak couldn't just hire some more writers to shore things up a little.

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u/cwx149 9h ago

I mean like even in real life nothings and nobodies can become terminators after enough practice and effort

I think the plot and how weak your character starts can do a lot for that especially in a game like KC2 where there's not like super fantasical elements

But in something like Skyrim if you weren't the chosen one some of your other feats even in the side stories would be crazy. But honestly even in Skyrim there needs to be more dialogue options that are like "yeah but remember I'm the dragonborn?"

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u/Phantom-_-Wizard 7h ago

And that's why games like bloodbourne rock. Your not all that special unless you put in the work. And even then basic enemies are still able to kill you, because levels and skill are still vastly different. You can be level 50 in bloodbourne and still struggle. I love when games are able to show off that the player character is still only human, but despite that they rise to the challenge

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u/Zyhmet 9h ago

Also--- Henry is the chosen one, in the sense that he is a F--ing noble. (I disliked that part)

And KCD isnt realy a mature game imo. Dont really see what makes it more than a normal game for teen/ default adult audiences

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u/ZombieCharltonHeston 8h ago

Henry isn't a noble. He holds no lands or titles, and has no inherent rights to Radzig's. He's the acknowledged bastard of a noble, but the only person who could legitimize Henry is King Wenceslas. At best, he's a man-at-arms for Radzig/Hanush/Hans.

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u/semogen 8h ago

Henry isn't a noble in any meaningful way since he's not recognized. He doesn't hold any status aside from being in proximity and working for people who do (Hans, Radzig, etc).

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u/jugaverdasorda 8h ago

As the non chosen one, these RPGs should make it to where it's virtually impossible to survive since you're not the chosen one. That would be some great realism!

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u/frodiusmaximus 8h ago edited 8h ago

I know this is coming from the world of WRPGs, but I replayed the OG Final Fantasy 7 recently and was surprised how unimportant the heroes are to basically everyone but themselves and their own mission. Yes, they’re saving the world from a cosmic threat, which is as high stakes as it gets, but also the Shinra brass have basically completely forgotten about them by the last act of the game. They’re just a nuisance to be dealt with if they need to be, and are basically ignored. It’s kind of interesting because that’s not the norm for that genre.

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u/el_grort 7h ago

Aye, there's a few like that.

Hell, even the main Souls games, you're mostly only the 'chosen one' retrospectively, by dint of being one of the endless waves of reanimated corpse to have actually achieved the vague mission handed to you. Very much a give thousands of monkeys a typewriter and eventually you'll get Shakespeare approach.

And tbh, a lot of RPG's are just that the protagonists have been a sufficiently large and consistent nuisance that the villains begin to take increasingly wild steps to try and snuff them out. Less chosen one, more just really, really wanting to swat that fly that keeps buzzing around your skull, the annoying wee shits.

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u/idkaboutfia 9h ago

I feel like the wish fulfillment is over-hyped. Maybe I'm just speaking for myself but I think in most games I couldn't care less about being mega-badass. I just want to have some impact on the game world.

Games where you're relatively regularly but are able to impact the world by being in the right place, or nudging bigger systems in the right way, are way more satisfying to me.

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u/ModernDayWeeaboo 9h ago

It's crazy because even Kenshi suffers this. You know, the game where getting beaten up and nearly dying to get stronger is a basic mechanic. It's driven you're just another X in Y world. Yet, nothing happens if you don't do it. Of course, world states exist but conflict and changing cities, maps, etc don't happen without you doing something.

An RPG needs to have a randomised world state that can change. In my Warhammer 3 games, every campaign is somewhat different. You'll see people be like, "Wow the Empire is strong as fuck. They steamrolled everything" only for the next guy to laugh and say Franz was dead turn 12.

Which I know is hard to pull off, but something simple look two factions warring and cities being occupied or lost. It's like a bunch of games do small amounts of it and are afraid to do more.

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u/NULL_SIGNAL 9h ago

I'm really enjoying roleplaying an itinerant orc paladin with a big hammer in Crimson Desert. Beat the main "Chosen One" story with the gruff, stoic lead character, now I'm just questing around the huge map and occasionally farming. It's lovely.

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u/ThreeLF 9h ago

Outward does an incredible job because every scrap of power you get feels earned. Your character becomes stronger by risking life and limb over and over.

It is, however, very difficult and lacks widespread appeal for that reason.

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u/CombatMuffin 9h ago

Well, games that do that risk alienating a broader audience, which is why they are mostly found in more niche genre. Many survival (and sometimes horror) games have you being a nobody, and keep you slightly incompetent throughout the game precisely to make you struggle... but again, that's a specific goal.

Most RPGS try to answer a power fantasy

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u/Sopel97 8h ago

In Enderal you are the chosen one, quite explicitly, but you learn at some point that not in the way you'd like. I found it quite brilliant and the game has stuck with me ever since.

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u/Dreadking_Rathalos 8h ago

I think 1 did a better job of this. It took til the end of 1 for anyone to believe you were competent

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u/Kindly-Tax-4998 8h ago

In Skyrim you kill a dragon within the first hour of gameplay. In Kingdom Come I got my ass handed to my by the overweight middle aged balding drunk neighbour, who was being a dick about not giving my fathers hammer back that he borrowed.

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u/TallyHoBababana 8h ago

Witcher 2 sort of solves this problem. You are famous Witcher extraordinaire Geralt of Rivia and you are pretty powerful, but you are still just one man. The plot happens to you instead of around you. Geralt is constantly playing catch-up, he shows up only to find things already happened without him and he has to make-do with what's left. His plans gets inadvertently thwarted by plans set in motion by Kingdoms long ago.

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u/Demorant 8h ago

You can thematically solve this with by having the player have a team of NPCs. They can even be more powerful than the main. It allows for the possibility for the main to feel weak unless he's with the team.

You can also do it through story elements that the player loses fights and possibly have those elements lead to mechanical changes. For instance, they could lose an arm and become mechanically weaker. Or if you want to go really mature with themes, your character could have an addiction problem that forces you to use them if you want to perform as well as the rest of the party.

In any game where you play one dude, and you fight anything greater than... one dude, a power fantasy is fulfilled.

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u/XGutshotX 7h ago

Kenshi nails the “you are not the chosen one” gameplay loop and the devs double down on the game not holding your hand

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u/thenoblitt 7h ago

"Youre a nobody" except your the son of a blacksmith who knew some people in high places.

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u/Popinguj 7h ago

The issue is not exactly that the protagonist becomes a terminator. This is merely a derivative of game mechanics and how well the player grasps them.

The issue is that the narrative of the game requires some grand goals and it's up to the player to achieve them. It's like with Frodo. He's not exactly a chosen one, it just so happened that the Ring ended up with him, and yet it was up to him to deliver it to the Mount Doom. And even then there's also Sam, who literally had to carry Frodo. Neither were the chosen ones and yet achieved great deeds.

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u/Exatraz 7h ago

Not a perfect example but I really liked in FFXII how the "main character" really is a nobody. Power of friendship allows him to support the princess and team to victory but I don't remember then ever saying he was special in any way.

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u/Opening_Pizza 7h ago

I mean yeah. Do you want to be a prisoner like Jacob in Hot Tub Time Machine? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOw5ocbGpGY

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u/DummyDumDragon 7h ago

I mean, even in real life, we're all the main characters of our own little universes - surely it's nigh impossible for our characters in games to be anything less.

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u/lonelyone12345 7h ago

The problem is that most people want to be the main character. Video games are escapism. Fantasy. We all get to be nobodies in our daily lives. Why would we want to do that during fantasy time?

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u/chiguy307 7h ago

Yeah, Henry is an ultra-talented badass, he is just young and inexperienced at the start of the story. It’s just kinda the nature of these types of games that you are going to get unrealistic progression to some extent.

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u/spagornasm 7h ago

I think the issue is that a lot of gamers who buy those kinds of games have those kinds of tastes, so if you want your game to sell you have to engage with them somewhat.

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u/The_Strom784 7h ago

I mean, you can still easily die in KCD1 if you’re not realistic with your abilities.

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u/Dangerous-Still-1411 7h ago

Would be interesting to have a game where you play as multiple regular dudes that add a tiny bit of something to the overall story and then either die or become irrelevant after a certain point. Narratively that would be super hard to pull off but it would be cool to see

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u/RobotSpaceBear 7h ago

Well there's Kenshi, where no matter how many dozen hours you put in to go from rags to riches but at night a beggar can stab you in the stomach when you're alone and not expecting it and it's over. Very realistic, but i have to admit it's too realistic and i don't find it fun.

KCD has the right amount of power fantasy for me.

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u/Axel-Adams 7h ago

I mean euro truck simulator

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u/captain_joe6 7h ago

Here comes “The Continuing Adventures of Rick the Door Technician!”

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u/raznov1 7h ago

Also, arent you like the lost heir or something?

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u/BlackSchuck 6h ago

Just say he's right. Being not wrong is being right.

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u/fake_user_34 6h ago

I mean, you can be nobody and still be a badass. One doesn't exclude the other.

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u/Physmatik 6h ago

You can't really balance agency and normalcy. Either hero has capabilities to do something grand (i.e., "chosen one") or he is a regular nobody (and you get sims with plot or romance club).

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u/maxis2k 6h ago

Not really sure how to balance the "just a regular guy" ethos and the wish fulfillment and player agency that most gamers desire, or at least I haven't found a game that hits the sweet spot.

Dragon Quest V and VIII did it well by Having you not being the chosen hero. Someone in your family line was but didn't step up to the plate. So you're basically a fill-in. You earn the mantle through all the work. Along the way, others are more important to the plot than you are. You're basically an observer along for the ride

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u/GenericFatGuy 6h ago

The older I get, the more my fantasy just becomes being a normal person in a world that isn't being strangled by late-stage capitalism.

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u/Distinct-Bathroom823 6h ago

thats because of mechanics. storywise henry is still a nobody. the highest rank he ever achieves amongst the nobility is capons bodyguard. thats all he is. sure he does a lot of leg work for people but ultimately hes just a bodyguard.

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u/quick_justice 6h ago

Right. Noble bastard and a trained weapon smith.

Absolutely nobody!

Reality is, a hero should be remarkable and relatable in some way to be interesting.

Doesn’t mean they need to be a Chosen One in the most direct way, but special somewhat they should be.

KCD doesn’t depict a life of serf after all - wake up before down, slave in the field, eat gruel and die before you are forty of a disease preventable even in that time.

Have a couple of market days thrown in for fun.

It’s not how it plays, is it? Most people in that time didn’t even travel further than the next market town, and never spoke to their lord.

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u/IAATCOETHTM_PROJECT 6h ago

you dont. alot of the "regular guy" games you either are special but the game doesnt say it out loud or you become special. dark souls never gets this treatment even tho you're literally a prophesized revolutionary. this is the level 2 logic layer of wanting a game that's "dark" or "edgy". it's ephermal marketing language

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