r/gaming • u/Asianboiforwhitedad • 10h ago

Kingdom Come Deliverance studio co-founder says a lot of RPGs are 'still games for teenagers,' and that he's 'tired of all the RPGs where you are this chosen one'

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/kingdom-come-deliverance-studio-co-founder-says-a-lot-of-rpgs-are-still-games-for-teenagers-and-that-hes-tired-of-all-the-rpgs-where-you-are-this-chosen-one/
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77

u/jl_theprofessor Switch 9h ago

What the fuck game is he talking about? It’s not Baldur’s Gate 3. It’s not Witcher 3. It’s not Expedition 33. It’s not Elden Ring. It’s not Final Fantasy VII. It’s not Persona.

Literally these games feature people of no renown, the rejects, and people victim to much larger forces. There’s no god choosing anyone here.

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u/LateStageBBQ 9h ago

Ehhhhh I think the idea that a reject who doesn’t matter is “chosen” to fight gods and save the world is precisely the template. Think Frodo. My dispute is that the hero narrative isn’t inherently adolescent. But E33, BG3 and FF7 all very much fall into the classic “hero’s journey” narrative that he’s critiquing.

AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Most games do.

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u/Lambeaux 6h ago

Final Fantasy 7 literally has you literally hand the world ender McGuffin to the villain, fail to save your damsel, and realize halfway through you are not the protaganist, because he died years ago, just some traumatized failure of a nobody. It's like a direct subversion of the chosen one and hero journey tropes.

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u/LateStageBBQ 6h ago

Actually, that’s an excellent point. It is the thing that it subverts for the most part - structurally, and for most of the narrative - but you ain’t wrong. Arguably, TW3 does something adjacent. Ultimately, you aren’t the most important character.

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u/Mitrovarr 4h ago

You didn't even achieve your dream of joining SOLDIER, you just got some of the power by literally falling into it. 

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u/Aromatic_Assist_3825 3h ago

Nah, Cloud is an archetype of the chosen one

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u/Magma_Axis 2h ago

How ? he is 3rd rate soldier reject

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u/ShortChapter5246 4h ago

But E33, BG3 and FF7 all very much fall into the classic “hero’s journey” narrative that he’s critiquing.

Thing is, he's talking about what made them want to make KCD1. But none of those games came around that time. So yeah I'd really have liked he mentioned some names here...All I can think of is FF15

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u/EvoEpitaph 3h ago

And pretty sure most people don't want to play "Bob from accounting" simulator in which your actions as Bob have no impact on the storyline whatsoever.

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u/Brick_Lab 2h ago

Right? It's like, sure it's nice to have a different angle from time to time but it's popular for a reason. Movies and games often sell the power fantasy, emphasis on fantasy

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u/ForensicPathology 16m ago

Yeah, what kind of RPG would it be if there were no hero's journey?  People are saying "nuh uh, he gets stupid powerful so he was the chosen one", but are then it becomes a question of are we talking narrative or gameplay?  Whether chosen or not, the characters in an RPG will get strong.

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u/earhere 9h ago

Pretty much every Persona game the world is going to end unless you stop it and you end up fighting god. You pretty much are the chosen one.

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u/percypersimmon 8h ago

Yea Persona is like the definition of this. I haven’t played them all, but the ones I have played have you essentially battling God at the end.

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u/Lyra_the_Star_Jockey 7h ago

You aren't the Chosen One, though.

You can't get away from the trope so much and then just say "but you do a lot. You're the chosen one." That's not how it works.

Except in Persona 4, where your character is literally chosen.

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u/NekoThief 6h ago

but you are in Persona games at least the very definition of the Chosen One trope

in P1-P2 Philemon chosed your group as his representative against his fight agains Nyarlathotep

in P3, you were at the wrong place at the wrong time where Death is sealed within you and you eventually become the key piece on beating Nyx and sealing Erebus

in P4 Izanami chooses you

in P5 Yaldabaoth chosed two representatives, you and Goro Akechi to see which side of humanity becomes dominant. The side that wants control of their own fates or the side that wants to be controlled

Having the ability to wield multiple personas while your friends cant was already a sign that you are special in Persona games

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u/Magma_Axis 2h ago

How is being in the wrong place at the wrong time ends up being the chosen one ?

1

u/NekoThief 2h ago

Because Aigis ends up choosing you as the host for the Death shadow as a last ditch effort. This single action caused a domino effect eventually leading your final confrontation with Nyx (unlocking the Universe Arcana which no other protagonist from the series ever got) and becoming the seal for Erebus.

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u/Magma_Axis 2h ago

So anyone else unfortunate enough can also chosen by Aigis ?

If the MC decides to sleep at the nearest hotel that night, what will happen ?

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u/NekoThief 2h ago

Then someone else gets to be the chosen one instead. Fate or Destiny works in funny ways.

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u/Nightwingx97 9h ago

In Elden Ring you are very much the chosen one. The grace of gold lead you back to brandish the Ring.

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u/jl_theprofessor Switch 9h ago

You are one of multiple tarnished all who failed and you are specifically of no renown.

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u/Nightwingx97 9h ago

That's why Ranni and Melina find you as soon as you start the game innit. I love Elden Ring, it's still a chosen one story.

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u/Throwaway02062004 8h ago

Y’know that shit is explicitly fake right?

Vyke is closest to the actual chosen one (on the box art) and he failed due to trying to heroically avoid sacrificing his maiden.

All tarnished see the gold and most get lead to their deaths.

Ranni showing up as Renna isn’t special or necessary. Melina is special but she only shows up as you’re a tarnished without a maiden. She doesn’t actually do anything special either unless you summon her.

Random nobody who does great things can only be realistically accomplished by a bit of luck.

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u/WonderDean 9h ago

Because you were chosen by Torrent yes. I guess you are a chosen one, but chosen by a horse. You’re still explicitly called “The tarnished of no renown”.

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u/GracchiBros 2h ago

I really don't think Melina and the horse are showing up to pick up every single Tarnished. There's definitely something special about your character that caused her to give you Torrent, send you to the Roundtable, and follow your journey.

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u/Adventurous-Cattle53 9h ago

“Literally these games feature people of no renown, the rejects, and people victim to much larger forces.”

Sounds like an average teenager-oriented plot tho. Every teen also feels like reject in that point in life and victim to larger forces than him, adults and so.

Persona fits, you are the chosen one fighting bigger evil, Starfield, Horizon

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u/Fun-Breadfruit2949 5h ago

I would say this is reductionist. It can be like that, but just because a story has an MC with those traits doesn't mean it's young adult-esque and, to some degree, immature as a whole. Witcher 3 is a great example of this.

Geralt isn't just a moody reject cursing at a world that doesn't understand him. He's a part of a severely discriminated and abused minority. That's a very serious and real experience adults deal with across the globe because people can be really shitty. While I'm not personally someone who has that experience IRL, I can imagine lots of people in similar situations would find him instantly relatable in that sense. That's fundamentally a very mature theme.

Sure, there are elements of the game that can be described the way that the OP is listing here, but the story and characters are much more than that. I would argue it's a rich, deep, and mature experience that often avoids the pitfalls of other stories that overuse the common tropes we're talking about here by making the MC a character that gets to do cool things not necessarily because of who he is, but because of the people he knows and the kind of person he is.

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u/jl_theprofessor Switch 9h ago

I’m fighting a bigger evil just by being politically active that means nothing.

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u/ultraboomkin 9h ago

Haven’t played the other games so not sure but in Witcher 3 you’re basically a superhero, and in BG3 you’re given unique powers.

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u/AnOrdinaryChullo 9h ago edited 9h ago

Well, that's kind of the point of the games - to get stronger as you progress...? Because in neither Witcher 3 or BG3 do you start out as a 'superhero' by any means 'powers' wise. Hell, look at the mages / witches in Witcher 3 - they are literally approaching god-like levels of powers compared to you. Ciri is on a whole other level entirely, multi dimensional travel child that has been prophesied.

This article, if it can be even called that, is brain-rot levels of stupid and doesn't even explain what on earth he even means.

In his own game, Henry reaches superhero levels by mid game and nothing is a threat to you.

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u/steinbruchfluss 7h ago

But we will play as Ciri in Witcher 4, won’t we?

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u/AnOrdinaryChullo 7h ago

Yes, right after she teleports back from Cyberpunk universe which she alluded to seeing during her realm hopping.

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u/nemec 8h ago

to get stronger as you progress...?

Literally the first thing that happens to your character on the Sword Coast is being saved by "divine intervention" (Guardian). Even if it is explained later in the story, everyone comments about how you're "not like other Illithid" which is "Chosen One" enough for me

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u/Nightwingx97 9h ago

In W3 you're an above average person by the world's scale. Sorcerers, vampires and even the majority of the monsters are stronger than Geralt in lore. But that makes for a boring game.

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u/NylesRX 9h ago edited 8h ago

Geralt is still very much the “chosen one” though. Sure, he’s not overpowered but essentially every major thing in that universe has something to do with him.

e: you can only disagree with this if you’re a Witcher larper. Geralt is the agent of destiny of this universe. Ciri isn’t a chosen one, she is raw power. Geralt’s actions are what shape her and allow her to fulfill her destiny.

W3 literally spells it out for you. If Geralt doesn’t do the right things she literally fucking dies and accomplishes nothing. Ciri’s not the one with agency here.

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u/Nightwingx97 8h ago

That's Ciri tho. He gets dragged on by extension because of who his daughter is.

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u/nhalliday 8h ago

Listen, if we consider the Hero of Kvatch from Oblivion to be a chosen one because they were seemingly destined to help Martin be the actual chosen one, then Geralt absolutely counts as a chosen one too.

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u/NylesRX 8h ago

Which Geralt essentially put in motion when he cured Emhyr and saved his marriage with Pavetta and invoked the law of surprise before Ciri was even born. There are also other major events that don’t involve Ciri at all like the Battle of the Bridge or Loq Muinne and more. He’s the catalyst, disruptor, agent of destiny; essentially everywhere he goes.

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u/Anonymus9809 8h ago

So, Padme is the chosen one of Star Wars?

-1

u/sniktology 5h ago

Unique powers is not a 'chosen one'' trope. You could be a 'chosen one'' and not have any powers too. Besides, every good story needs a hook to make it worth your time to go through with it. It's a form of entertainment. If you were playing a villager with no powers and doing mundane everyday stuff then it's just a life sim not a story which is what most RPGs needs to have.

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u/AscendedViking7 9h ago

Ehhh it's definitely Persona

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u/Drawax 9h ago

Skyrim. Everyone talks about Skyrim all the time. Even Fallout to some degree uses the same old boring formula of joining a faction and then becoming the "chosen one" of the faction in a sense.

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u/Ozone--King 9h ago

I was going to say this. If the KCD studio co-founder can’t provide some good examples then then this genuinely just sounds like another buzzword statement coming from someone who thinks they’re better than everyone else. Pretentious is the word I’m looking for here.

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u/AnOrdinaryChullo 9h ago edited 9h ago

He is infamous for yapping out of his ass and anyone who reads this piss poor attempt at an 'article' can see that it is once again pure yapping that doesn't actually dive into what exactly he even means.

This 'chosen one' trope has not been a thing for like 2 decades? None of my favourite RPG's in recent memories like Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk have you be the 'chosen one'. Also, isn't Henry a chosen one in the very game that he made himself? Or is he under delusion that 'poor uneducated character' /=/ chosen one, in terms of game design?

Bullshit buzzwords from regular yapper.

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u/Disastrous-Gap2449 6h ago

Well technically the E33 characters were literally created by "god" to play their roles in the story so they're basically all chosen ones, especially Mael and Verso

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u/Doctor_sadpanda 2h ago

E33 is basically the most cliche ( not saying it’s bad ) your mentor gets killed in front of you by some mysterious person, find out mysterious person is related to you and you have god like powers.

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u/Dysentry 9h ago

Aren't you literally chosen by a higher power in Baldur's Gate? And in Persona, you're again specially chosen?

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u/darklightmatter 6h ago

BG3

For specific origins, sure, but that's still a choice that can easily be avoided for anyone who wants to be ⭐special⭐ by fighting against the system and being an 'ordinary person' unlike us sheep who don't really care about such stuff.

There's nothing special or unique about a non Dark Urge Tav, in the sense that they're completely replaceable and would still experience the events of the game.

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u/Stavvystav 8h ago

Uh, you pretty much are the Chosen One in Persona games. No one else has the ability the house/use multiple Persona and people find that really odd about you that you can. Hence why you're (in modern titles) always attributed the Fool arcana.

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u/Phantom-_-Wizard 7h ago

Or like kirby were your just a cute lil creature that ends up killing a god

1

u/asianwaste 7h ago

I think what he's talking about is a narrative where your character has some some sort of quirk, predestiny, or gimmick that makes them suited to saving the setting from catastrophe. All of the examples (I don't know much about Exp 33 tho) have characters with special traits or a unique destiny that make them suited to save the setting. Usually that comes into mechanics as a special class or ability. Example, Joker's Wildcard ability in Persona 5.

Thinking hard, I think one that qualifies is Neverwinter Nights. Your character is one among many that answer a call but your character's prestige is earned from deeds accomplished throughout the course of the game. You aren't predestined nor are you uniquely talented. You just were the right hero at the right time which earned trust into an inner circle. In the latter expansion you do go through some epic scale adventuring stakes but the story of your character is not a predestiny but developed from the prior story. You've earned your power creep by then. Hawke from Dragon Age 2 also comes to mind. Hawke wasn't special in any way. He just met the right people and they clung onto him and together you made a rags to riches story and earned prestige in the city. I'm hesitant to say Shepherd from Mass Effect. While you don't start special, you do have something uniquely special happen to you that makes you most suitable to be a protagonist... but I think the trilogy does not really focus on that too hard so I guess Shepherd works. Shep gets his prestige because he's Shep and is very good at what he does.

1

u/BrownEyesWhiteScarf 5h ago

From a modern title perspective, Octopath Traveler 1 might be one of the best example. The main characters are just a band of 8 travelers without anything particularly worth noting. In fact, the true “hero” or the “chosen one” in this game is someone who already passed away in the past, but his work provides inspiration on a few of the characters to start their journey. Each of the 8 main character seems like a low stakes journey at first, but is tied together with an underlying threat. It’s a great concept, and a great game, but I wouldn’t call it a game for everyone.

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u/asianwaste 5h ago

That set up drew a lot of inspiration from the Romancing Saga series (always thought Octo was if Saga and Persona had a baby, it's Octo.). Arguably most of the protagonists from Saga Frontier.

Now that I have it in mind, both protags of Saga Frontier 2 are sort of the anti-version of chosen one. Gustave is so unremarkable he's actually sub-human by the world's standards. Starts from zero and through his ingenuity and creativity, he revolutionizes the world and takes back what was his by rite. Wil Knights is very much a nobody as well save for a personal matter he has with one of the villains that hooks him into the grander story. His story though is more, "I gotta make a living.... but also I am going to get some revenge while I am at it."

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u/Ok-Note-754 6h ago

Yeah, I think he's referring to the stakes as much as anything.

In KCD while you do occasionally rub shoulders with some important characters, Henry's story is ultimately quite small and inconsequential. He's not saving the world, he's just looking for a sword and trying to avenge his dad in a provincial part of medieval Bohemia.

In every other game listed you end up being a hero saving the world from some great evil or similar.

1

u/logitaunt 4h ago

tbf FFVII does want you to think that Cloud is a character of importance for most of the game

Learning that he was just a meaningless security guard was an excellent twist

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u/W4steofSpace 4h ago

Have you ever played a persona game? You are literally the chosen one in every persona game, that's the point of the wild card. You were deliberately chosen. Now, granted, you don't fight a god in 4, but you do in 3&5, to say nothing of the fuckery that goes on in 1&2.

Not only that but all the persona protags are teenagers. They're literally games for teenagers. Idk wtf you're on about.

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u/Aromatic_Assist_3825 3h ago

In BG3 you are a person that by a cosmic amount of chance have a Mindflayer parasite while also having the one thing that lets you harvest its powers while not succumbing to ceremorphosis, in Witcher 3 you are one of the last Witchers alive which gives you the powers needed to be able to help the literal chosen one agaisnt the wild hunt, in FF7 you are a SOLDIER with Jenova cells which directly connects you to the villain who wants to destroy the world thus making you the perfect candidate to be the hero, in every single persona game you are the only character chosen by Igor to have the power of the wild card and enter the velvet room so he can guide you to your chosen destiny that he specifically state. These are all types of chosen ones, there are different “chosen one” archetypes when it comes to storytelling

0

u/jl_theprofessor Switch 3h ago

You don’t know the difference between a protagonist in general and a chosen one.

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u/Unrelenting_Salsa 3h ago

He is 1000% shadowboxing here. There are as many if not more "you're just a normal li'l' guy" game stories as there are "you're the chosen one and all powerful" stories in recent years. The only chosen one stories I can think of immediately are the persona games (though you're not all powerful in them), FFXIV (stretching the definition of recent at this point, and the biggest theme of the game is that even the most powerful people can't do things alone), and the game of the year winner that I can't name without major spoilers because it's a subversion of expectations.

1

u/Doctor_sadpanda 2h ago

Expedition 33 is uh You’re basically a god and can control the entire game

1

u/Magma_Axis 2h ago

Yep, even on FFVII. You are 3rd rate SOLDIER reject with some eco terrorist friends on a journey. Aerith is the most "chosen one" like, but thats bcs she is the last of her race. Any random Centran can also do the job

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u/Alvarocious 48m ago

Recent Pokemon, you get glazed and put on a pedestal the whole game.

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u/SaltyAd8309 26m ago

The games you just mentioned are suitable for teenagers and young adults.

I think he is talking about games aimed at actual adults—games for a mature audience—without necessarily involving sex or horror. Once you're past your twenties, you have to admit that the storytelling starts to feel a bit bland. That’s only natural; obviously, publishers are trying to appeal to a broad audience.

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u/Hjemmelsen 25m ago

The Witcher and BG3 are definitely chosen one tropes. It's less overt, but you are extremely unique in both settings, given power that others don't have, and set out to save people.

0

u/Dartz_Reverse 6h ago

Every Final Fantasy is a chosen one type game, even though in FF7 its not told to you specifically, all FF protags are "Warriors of light".

0

u/amicaze 6h ago

At that point it's a problem of logical comprehension from your part.

If you hear "there's a lot of rotten food in here" and someone replies "hey no look, there's a couple of apples still good" then do you think it goes against the first sentence, in any way ?

I mean you cited 3 RPGs, one of which is more than 10 years old. How many released in 10 years ? Thousands ? Maybe hundreds of AAA...