r/SipsTea • • 9h ago

SMH Thoughts on this?

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u/burge4150 9h ago edited 3h ago

I think there's room in the market for a back to basics car company that takes out all this bs, goes back to crank windows and all that crap and sells new vehicles for an affordable cost with a good warranty.

It would probably crush today.

Edit: I got like 400 responses saying "slate" ok I get it you can stop

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u/AdSquare3489 9h ago

Look at Dacia in Europe, they are exactly that. Maybe not crank windows, not sure. 

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u/Bub_bele 8h ago

I‘d guess electrical windows are maybe even cheaper nowadays

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u/Turbulent_Gazelle530 8h ago

the reason crank windows are no longer even an option is because any changes to the cockpit require extensive testing of airbags and restraint systems in order to ensure that the handle sticking out of the door doesn't interfere. it's not cost effective to have both options.

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u/LIONLDN 8h ago

I didn't think of that, brilliant point, makes sense! 💯

Processing img hueh7ht2jith1...

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u/BrainSqueezins 7h ago

The logistics of stocking parts for both options makes it problematic, too.

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u/No_Plum_3737 7h ago

The upcoming no-frills Slate truck is doing hand windows as a statement - maybe it saves a few bucks maybe not

https://www.motortrend.com/news/slate-auto-truck-crank-windows

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u/Skittlebrau46 7h ago

It’s not only about cost. It’s simple. Less wires, less sensors, less switches, less fuses, less parts, less… everything.

Cost wasn’t their only design factor. It was about making things simpler, with less part counts, and less things that can go wrong.

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u/usafonz 4h ago

unfortunately someone got rid of the ev tax incentive so they will cost damn near 30 grand. Not to mention no awd or 4x4.

nah im good.

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u/PioneerTurtle 8h ago

That's the point tho... a touchscreen is cheaper than an interface of buttons. You write some software and mass produce 1 screen. It's cheaper than the buttons

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u/Bub_bele 6h ago

sadly yes. I like buttons

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u/fatpat 4h ago

Exactly. Fancy schmancy tech can 'evolve' all it wants, but our bodies cannot. We still have hands and fingers. We like to touch and manipulate and move physical buttons, knobs, sliders, etc. especially when driving.

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u/DubiousBrushwagg 3h ago edited 3h ago

Tactile feedback is important if you want to work controls without having to look away from the road.

When you can navigate your dash and center console by feel, you won't have to look away. Touchscreens make that entirely impossible because there is no positional feedback for the brain unless you look. Once you're past the edge of the screen, everything feels the same.

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u/Dracomortua 8h ago

It would be very expensive to have a lower make of car with the hand crank in it. And the electrical crap is super cheap now, so you are certainly correct.

https://insideevs.com/features/761423/byd-seagull-drive-in-china/

It is weird that China can make a car for $8k USD. And Tesla, here in Canada, dropped their prices by $20k because it made very little sense to buy them here.

https://electrek.co/2025/07/11/tesla-slashes-prices-canada-despite-tariffs-sales-zero/

A lot going on here that i do not understand.

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u/DoctorJiveTurkey 8h ago

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u/Other-Researcher2261 8h ago

The Dacia Sandero!

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u/ImDero 8h ago

It's been delayed!

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u/I_Am_The_Mole 7h ago

I travel to Europe for work on a regular basis and one of my favorite things to do is taking pics of random Sanderos on the road or in parking lots and texting my friend "Good news!"

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u/winkingchef 3h ago

Immediately I heard this bit

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u/FirstAdministration 8h ago

I had a Dacia as a rental in Martinique, and the rear windows were crank windows. It was a cheap car, but nice to drive. I would certainly buy one as a commuter, for sure.

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u/Vargau 8h ago

rear windows were crank windows

Those Dacia Sandero were amazing, up until a few years there were lot's of them still in the streets of Bucharest with over 1 million km on the pedometer.

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u/def__eq__ 6h ago

I recommend looking at Euro NCAP rating and crash videos of any Dacia car. I value my life more than the price difference to any reputable car company’s cheapest acceptable option.

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u/AverellCZ 9h ago

Exactly what I wanted to mention

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u/tomcalgary 8h ago

Crank windows never fail and can be rolled up when the batteries dead. So good.

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u/CatNamedRIchard2 8h ago

I have had plenty of cars where the crank window failed and they can be a pain to fix. Not that I don't wish they would bring crank windows back or anything like that.

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u/Certain_Pangolin5036 8h ago

Let me have wing windows back.

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u/ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive 8h ago

Wing windows? Oh no no no. Those my dear friend are smoker's windows. And they are awesome.

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u/Enge712 8h ago

You mean ball chillers?

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u/Grumpy-24-7 7h ago

While I do love the ventilation those provide, they also provide an easy way for burglars to break into your car.

I had those on one of my cars decades ago and somebody used a screwdriver or maybe a Slim Jim and wedged it into the gap and flipped the lever to open the wing vent.

Then they reached thru and opened the door from the inside, which completely bypassed the fact it was locked. Then they proceeded to remove my new aftermarket radio while scratching and denting the dash around it.

To make it hurt even more, I had put the radio on my very first credit card and hadn't even made my first payment on it yet. So I ended up paying the credit card company for a radio I no longer owned.

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u/c14rk0 7h ago

Honestly I don't know if this would be an issue these days. If you're worried about someone robbing your locked car they're just going to break your window to get in. They're not going to waste the time to do all of this to get in without damage. Even then you likely need to have something visible worth stealing; otherwise they're just going to move on to check other cars.

Most theft these days is just about opportunity and speed. Stealing a radio just isn't worth it these days in most cases as they're relatively cheap and EVERY fucking car uses a different propriety system. Most of them aren't even easily removable without pretty major disassembly. Even IF you stole one you'd basically have to own a shop that sells them or know of a shop willing to buy stolen radios; otherwise good luck selling it for basically anything.

Back in the day every car could use essentially the same aftermarket radios and every electronics shop sold them. It made sense as an easy item to steal and resell, especially since they were actually expensive. These days you'd probably be better off stealing the tires or siphoning the gas out of a car.

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u/squirrel9000 8h ago

Crank windows are usually the cheap option, and the components reflect that.

Power window stuck because of ice in the track? It will activate a sensor and stop before it breaks anything. Manual? Driver thinks it's close to opening and reefs on on the crank a bit too hard. Snap goes the plastic linkage. This does free the window from the ice, but there's nothing holding it in place now and it drops inside the door frame, never to be seen again. Your winter commute just got really fun.

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u/Kitchen_accessories 8h ago

They absolutely do fail and they’re harder to fix when they do.

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u/NearPeerAdversary 8h ago

Crank windows definitely do fail. Otherwise I agree with you.

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u/MammothHusk 7h ago

Just tell us you never had a car with crank windows.

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u/wtfnonamesavailable 7h ago

My wife got in my truck and tried the crank the window the wrong way. It snapped the cable and the window fell off the track.

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u/QueenInYellowLace 7h ago

LOL—crank windows can absolutely fail. Then you’ve gotta be the eight-year-old in the backseat trying to pull the window up by its edge every damn day on the way home from school because it slowly slides down.

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u/mountain_rip3456 5h ago

Crank windows failed for decades. What are you talking about?

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u/IWillPetEveryCat 5h ago

Oh man you have definitely never worked on cars before lol. Old cheap crank windows are way less reliable than modern electrics. I've replaced dozens over the years just on my own personal project cars.

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u/Kami0097 9h ago

And they also start to be apart of this trend - just look at their new lineup ....

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u/Suspicious-Bass6355 9h ago

It’s kinda the way things go these days. My assumption has been that prices are driven up mostly due to shareholder/capital pressures. You’ll see a new mark come into the market with no-nonsense models at very reasonable prices, often using easy-to-source generic parts, and they gradually increase the prices on the base models over time to catch up with (or pass) everyone else. Happened with the Japanese brands, when civics and Camrys used to be extremely affordable, then we saw a similar progression with the Korean makes. GM famously made the Saturn more expensive and lower quality before ultimately killing the brand altogether. It’s just the same story of squeezing costs and raising prices for stock price gains.

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u/22cthulu 8h ago

As a subsection to this, my assumption is that it's not that all of the unnecessary features of a car cause the price to go up, it's that shareholders wanted prices to go up, and they're adding all of these features to justify the price increases to consumers.

I know 10 years ago when I was shopping for a car, you could get an aftermarket remote start system installed for less than $200, but if you wanted it included in the car at the dealership it was an extra $3000. Now the remote start is baked into the price of the car, and then locked behind a $20/month subscription.

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u/jplayz7 8h ago

Seems like the Asian makers are always the first to offer premium features at affordable marks, and then the American and Euro makes have to keep adding more features bloat to justify charging higher prices for the same shit Hyundai has

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u/Sheenius_Ger 9h ago

EU regulations.

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u/531d 9h ago

The beeping if u speed is EU law.

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u/Brief-Tax2582 8h ago

And how good are their sales? Do people like it there?

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u/bananapowerltu3 8h ago

They are doing just fine

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u/Vindve 8h ago

Dacia Sandero is the most sold vehicle in Europe so far in 2026. It's the basic B-segment car (which is the everyday car for M. anybody, supposedly an urban mid-sized car but people also use to hit the road).

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u/MikeinDundee 8h ago

Found James May’s alt account ;). He loves the Sendero. j/k

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u/bcfng 8h ago

Wait til Americans find out how much new cars cost in Europe...

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u/OkTemperature8170 9h ago

Same with appliances if you ask me. Why is my washing machine uploading data to the internet?

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u/nutkinknits 9h ago

We have a dehumidifier that can connect to WiFi. I think that's one of more strange wifi of things. Like how hard is it to set a humidity and then just empty the bucket a couple times a day. Maybe I just don't realize that it's a necessary feature but I've been emptying buckets for 18 years now and it's not a big deal. And now my husband hooked a hose to it so now I don't even need to empty a bucket, it just does it's job

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u/RhetoricalOrator 9h ago

Our attention spans are so low that we need reminders to dump the bucket on our phone because that's the only thing we pay attention to.

Unrelated, but I appreciate your comment because I actually need to empty mine now. I'd forgotten about it. We are averaging about five gallons a day produced in our bedroom right now!

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u/functional_moron 8h ago

Jesus dude. Do you live in a beaver dam?

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u/RhetoricalOrator 8h ago

A/C went out and it's gonna cost $9,000 to replace. I'm running fans in the windows and it's been rainy.

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u/tailkinman 8h ago

Where do you live, a steam factory!?

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u/nutkinknits 8h ago

Who needs wifi when you have reddit to remind you.

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u/LIONLDN 8h ago

Good point & same, gonna check mine now too, though ours only usually needs emptying once a week / every two weeks 😅

https://giphy.com/gifs/mDYLOFarCMbdoL0c4C

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u/HeKis4 7h ago

Alternatlively, you could just make the fing thing beep. If you're not in range of hearing a mildly loud beep and only get the notification from your phone, you're not in a position to do anything about a full bucket anyway.

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u/Takara38 9h ago

Dehumidifiers that can connect to WiFi and Bluetooth were started for commercial use. It was so restoration companies wouldn’t have to go to a customer’s home or place of business just to monitor the equipment. They could see how the atmospherics were doing (RH, temp, grain depression, etc) from the company app.

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u/nutkinknits 8h ago

That makes complete sense. But for regular homeowner, it seem a bit unnecessary. Unless it's going in a crawlspace and in that case you want one specifically for that purpose.

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u/zbmcg 5h ago edited 5h ago

It's probably not necessary for home usage, but there are definitely commercial uses like for museums and things to be able to know remotely what the humidity is in a space.

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u/WambritaWings 4h ago

My dehumidifier is 46 years old (my parents got it when they got married). It has on/off and a big old square bucket. It's brown and orange. I bought a new one 5 years ago, it's already broken.

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u/Imsktn 2h ago

What I hate is that they could easily put a floor water sensor for the very very rare times of a leak & most don’t spend the money on that. Most connect just to harvest runtime data, use those metrics to make devices that barely cover those expectations.

We could easily be prioritizing repairability but these days you’ll almost never find a small humidifier/window a/c repair man. It’s “cheaper” to buy the next worst version of what you had.

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u/DmYourTanLinesPls 9h ago

That's why I bought a speed queen from a laundromat that was going out of business. Gave a heavy wash and just pop a few quarters in it. Works like a dream. And there are lots of spare parts.

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u/lonelygayPhD 8h ago

When it was time for a new washer, we went with a Speed Queen. The last HE washer we had was a nightmare. This one is pretty much as basic as you can get, but it is tough and gets my laundry done in under 30 min.

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u/defconcore 8h ago

I mean they do make washing machines like that, look at Speed Queen. It's mostly mechanical, none of the extra electronics to break down

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u/bremsspuren 8h ago

These days, manufacturers appear to collect as much information as they can purely on general principle in the hope they'll be able to "monetise" it.

I wonder if the ongoing RAM price squeeze will encourage them to rethink putting so much computer hardware in newer models.

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u/anagram-of-ohassle 9h ago

I’ve been following Slate for this reason. The modular aspect seems neat to me as well.

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u/tkh0812 8h ago

I hope it leads to other car companies doing something similar. You can tell that there are some people on here trying to discredit them without any rationalization. It’s what is needed

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u/losedi 9h ago

Got one on order for all those reasons

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u/elheber 4h ago

I like the idea of my car not spying on me. Plus the concept of a car simple enough that they're practically zero maintenance and easy to repair is a nice bonus.

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u/slimjim346826 8h ago

It looks neat, but way overpriced for what it is

I’d pay 15k for one

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u/bored_dudeist 7h ago

People keep saying stuff like this, but there are literally no street legal cars you can buy in the US for under $23k. $15k is mid-tier UTV money, nothing approaching an enclosed vehicle you can take on a highway.

The Slate is the actually lowest cost EV you'd be able to get, but theres this mass sentiment that it should be be priced to be competetive with golf carts, it seems so out of touch.

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u/Ok_Car9530 6h ago edited 6h ago

Chevy makes an electric SUV for around 27-28k. That's a little more than the slate, but the basic slate has manual windows, no radio, no speakers, it doesn't even have an armrest or center console. With a little customization (which most people will probably want because they're used to things like armrests) you're probably looking at 26.5 or 27k.The Chevy on the other handed is loaded with modern features, and it's an SUV, meaning more seats, more interior space to furnish, etc. When you compare the 2, it leaves me wondering how the Slate gets up to 25k.

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u/bored_dudeist 6h ago

What is the availability of the base trim on that SUV? What sort of fees come with dealing with the Chevy dealership?

A lot of the problem I see with cars coming from the big 3 is actually getting a car at MSRP doesnt happen outside of luck, timing, or if the model is proving to be unsuccessful. Are you going to get that 27k model, or is the only trim level available 29k before dealership fees?

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u/Suitable_Switch5242 6h ago

That’s exactly the problem. Building a good car in the US is expensive. Electric ones even more so because our local battery supply chain is immature.

Also many people make decisions based on safety ratings, and to score well on those you need a lot of expensive things. Side curtain airbags, automatic emergency braking, lane departure avoidance, backup camera and sensors, blind spot monitors, etc.

The big flashy screens, led light strips, and silly software features are cheap by comparison and are a way to try to make the car seem worth the price.

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u/shizrak 9h ago

Except they miss the mark by not making it affordable

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u/DiMiTri_man 9h ago

It’s one of the most affordable new vehicles on the market right now. You’d be hard pressed to find a new vehicle for $24k or less. 

Like I’m looking at used cars that are still $27k for some ungodly reason. I don’t look forward to when my car dies and I’m forced into a $500/month payment for a used car. 

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u/NightLightHighLight 9h ago

It’s not difficult to find a new car under $25K, a base Corrola MSRP is $23K and comes with a ton of features compared to the Slate.

If you’re specifically talking about an electric tuck and not just a car then it’s hard to beat the Slate. But that’s where I think slate messed up. Their first car should have been the most barebones compact sedan/hatchback at the lowest price possible. The fact that is a truck and electric kind of raises the price up a lot.

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u/CJPrinter 4h ago

Exactly. The non-hybrids start at $23,325. I ordered three base Corolla Hybrids this year for our fleet. Delivered, they were $25,218. They have pretty much everything anyone would want in an economy car, plus 50+ MPG. They even have radar cruise with lane centering and wireless connectivity.

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u/TheSquirrelWithin 9h ago

How's that? Base starts at $25K-ish, last I checked. That's half the cost of a new pickup today.

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u/Successful-Reason403 8h ago

Barebones would be a good deal at like 15k. Past 25k and you can get a fully featured truck like a Ford Maverick 

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u/SvartrKukkSceand 8h ago

Except they miss the mark by not making it affordable

Your idea of what is "affordable" is completely out of whack.

Its not even possible to make a car in the US that sells for ~15k and make a profit on it. Not if you want the people building it to be paid well and the car to not explode immediately when it is bumped or kill you in an accident.

A realistic new car that barely goes down the road is at least 19k and the company makes about 2k on that car - so they dont want to make it because thats basically not even a real profit when they have to account for losses in other departments.

So the realistic actual price of a new car is going to be in the low 20s.

The Slate is very affordable.

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u/OmicronNine 7h ago

If you don't think $25k is an affordable EV, you're completely disconnected from today's reality.

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u/TheOvershear 8h ago

I don't understand Slate's target audience. The truck has too small of a tow capacity/bed size to be of use for most contractors. Regardless, the 205mi range isn't quite sufficient for contractor use- i put 180 miles a day on average in our f250 in phoenix. And if you are at max payload the range is going to be substantially worse.

So who is the target audience? It's not a good family car, too expensive to be a starter car, and too basic for most hobbiests.

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u/mrq02 7h ago

85-90% of truck owners are not contractors. Most people who own trucks own them because they think they're cool.

The target audience is the cheaper end of those people. As for "too expensive to be a starter car", better check the market again. The cheapest new car in the US market is $20k. There are only 13 models total that are under the Slate's base price of $25k.

I'm not personally interested in one, but there are many who are.

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u/220subsonic 6h ago

I intend to buy one as a commuter. I also do a lot of woodworking, so I want something I can pick up some wood/plywood on the way home from work. I already have a truck for towing stuff, but feeding a 6.2L with premium is expensive unnecessary for a daily. The Slate will be a second (technically 3rd) car for me, so I'm not looking for something that does everything. The 2 door fits my use case perfectly. I like the smaller size, and the 1% of the time I might be driving with more than 1 passenger, I can take a different vehicle.

I also like the fact it won't actively spy on me, like Ford is notorious for.

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u/LostInTheSeaweeds 8h ago

I am a perfect use case.

I am a not particularly wealthy guy with an old house that needs a lot of repairs. I don't need a full contractor-grade 3/4 ton, and I don't need a people hauler. I do need something I can use to bring plywood home and take trash to the dump. A small standard cab pickup is exactly what I need.

Also, I think they can work for a lot of local delivery use. A small truck is much nicer in the city than a big one. Although, that niche is probably even better done by a van.

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u/oops_i_made_a_typi 8h ago

The truck has too small of a tow capacity/bed size to be of use for most contractors. Regardless, the 205mi range isn't quite sufficient for contractor use

doesn't this clearly tell you its not for contractors then? seems fine as the car-after-starter car, especially with the options to expand seating to turn it into a family car for those who want an EV (understandable with gas prices these days and in the future)

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u/TheOvershear 7h ago

With the 2nd row seating and hatchback options, it becomes more expensive than a new kia EV3. Hell, at least the ev3 has an infotainment center and whatnot

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u/WigglestonTheFourth 4h ago

180 miles in Phoenix? Are you stuck on the loops?

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u/DiceKnight 7h ago

This car is so divisive because people either praise it for it's back to basics approach or they talk about how it's a vehicle that actively punishes you for being broke and compare it against a Maverick which has an objectively nicer interior.

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u/just4youuu 7h ago

Reliability needs to be proven and the reputation earned over time, unfortunately. That said, simplicity certainly helps!

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u/Chuckfinley_88 6h ago

I’ve been following Slate for this reason. The modular aspect seems neat to me as well.

And unless you stick to buying a bare bones model, it is going to be more expensive than a regular truck.

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u/thenamziel 5h ago

The 2027 Toyota Corolla is 23k and it's even painted by the factory.

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u/Cruel2BEkind12 3h ago

Hooooly thats way too expensive for what it is. You can buy a Trax for thousands less and have everything that slate says you are saving money on.

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u/CyclopsMacchiato 2h ago

Still overpriced, especially for a barebones EV

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u/AffectObjective3887 9h ago

This is the entire concept behind Slate vehicles. They aren’t dead yet… but it’s not crushing.

People like brands and they want to show off. They talk shit about spending money on all the bells and whistles but it’s not like someone is telling you that you can’t drive a used, $5,000 F-150 or a ‘98 Tercel…. But as long as people would rather pay for a new Chevy Sonic over a used Honda Accord (same price, horrible choice) they will keep building cars to sell to idiots.

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u/Typical2sday 5h ago

Came to say exactly this.
Rivian was originally supposed to be this but then early funders had different ideas, and people wanted a Tesla competitor so they went up market.
But this lady just needs a used Hyundai.

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u/AffectObjective3887 5h ago

I work in the Detroit area in automotive. I’ve seen all major EV pickups in a complete tear down. Rivian is, by far, the best made EV on the market. Their build and design quality far exceeds Tesla in almost every aspect. They should be a Tesla destroyer but fanboys will be fanboys and some people just want a taste of Elon’s dick I guess.

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u/happyinheart 6h ago

They aren’t dead yet… but it’s not crushing.

What do you mean they aren't dead yet? What issues are they having?

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u/AffectObjective3887 5h ago

The end of the EV credit hurt them, like all North American EV makers. They have a ton of pre-orders and early interest was good, but it’s coming down to crunch time and the jury is still out on whether or not their product is viable.

From what I understand early market test results have been mixed. They were forced to make some big design changes, like adding back air conditioning, after customers rejected the idea of a completely bare bones vehicle.

I think the biggest challenge is that they built a lot of promises around the $25,000 platform and global supply costs are constantly moving up. They have yet to deliver a vehicle (first, select customers are supposed to take delivery in December) and are a bit behind in the original promised delivery timing. There is a concern that they are not going to be able to keep the price point or the timeline.

Edit: grammar

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u/happyinheart 4h ago

Gotcha. Even if price goes up 10% I'd still like to get one.

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u/Big_Slope 3h ago

I’ll level with you here: the Slate is a penalty box that a lot of internet guys claim they’re willing to pay $20-30k for, but the evidence is thin.

People who claim to want a Slate aren’t currently driving a 1990 Ford Ranger, which makes me doubt their sincerity.

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u/Nonstopshooter21 9h ago

I would love to get my hands on one of those pickup trucks that Toyota came out with recently I think they start at like 10 or 15 grand... of course not available in the US

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u/rustylugnuts 7h ago

I would absolutely jump on an oversized kei truck or van that can handle 75mph on most interstate roads. A 1.3 to 2.5 liter inline 4, 6sp manual, lockers on the front wheels you have to get out and turn. Out the door for under 30k and I'm sold.

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u/Nonstopshooter21 7h ago

2.4 L I4 Turbo diesel... yeah dude I would love to have one.... I think it would absolutely kill the Side by Side Market in the us as well for most people

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u/Spiritual_Bridge84 8h ago

I’ve said before. Make a 2015 Toyota line-up

2015 Corolla, Camry, Rav4, Tundra

Brand new 2015’s. None of that crap on it.

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u/MightyCrick 7h ago

And 2006 Hondas. Honda was still making the S2000 and the Element, and it was the first year of the Ridgeline.

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u/sidc42 8h ago

Factoring in inflation the average new car in 1960 cost roughly $23k in today's money.

Problem is, in the US safety features like airbags, anti-lock brakes and now backup cameras are required by law, so there's no selling a new car without those added costs of the center screen, computers and sensors required to run them.

Then you have things like crank windows that went away because volume production eventually made it cheaper to build cars with electric windows over cranks.

But as someone who's old and drove shitboxes when he was young and also has a car built in 1968 sitting in his garage, I can tell you those old cars are sloppy as fuck to drive, the seats are uncomfortable as hell and driving a car without things like power steering gets old.

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u/Theron3206 7h ago

The centre screen costs less than the buttons would, it's why they all tried to put everything through the screen.

Modern safety (more than just things like airbags, the whole design of the vehicle is much different) and emissions standards make things a lot more expensive, and you can't really get around it.

I suspect that if you put the bare minimum legal requirements in it wouldn't save as much as you think.

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u/hu92 3h ago

Yes but the life expectancy of those buttons is generally closer to what the life expectancy of the car should be. Name me one mobile electronic device that still functions flawlessly after 5-10 years without any maintenance whatsoever, while simultaneously being exposed to large temperature swings amd constant vibrations.

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u/Lysslie 2h ago

I want tactile buttons for safety and functionality. I don’t talk to Siri and I don’t want to talk to my car through OnStar or Subaru Starlink that I have to pay $15.99/month for in order to turn on the heated seats without two touch screen submenus.

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u/maxman162 8h ago

Some cars have the backup camera display on the rear view mirror instead of a screen on the dashboard. 

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u/PreliminaryThoughts 7h ago

Yes it's much better, and you can flip between mirror and digital

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u/FabulousVanilla9940 8h ago

Backup cameras are required now?

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u/IudexJudy 8h ago

As of 2018 I believe

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u/devilishpie 8h ago

For many years now yeah.

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u/sidc42 8h ago

Yes.

Whenever Jeep replaced the JK Wrangler with the JL Wrangler was the year that it became law. I think that was 18 or 19 maybe.

Was told that by the Jeep dealer on one of the many trips my wife's JK had to go in for warranty work.

The Wrangler was apparently the last American car to not have a backup camera as a factory option although the radio on most of them did support one because so many people added them (myself included).

The issue Jeep had was the government wanted a center location for the camera and a license plate camera on the JKs was off-center and the other possible location (inside the tire) would get covered up by a tire cover. So one of the easiest ways to tell a JK from a JL is the JL has a centered license plate (and lights in the front fenders).

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u/IlludiumQXXXVI 7h ago

Yeah, it's actually a really sad story. A man backed over his toddler who had run out behind the vehicle and killed him. The kid was small enough to not be visible looking out the back window or in the rear view mirror. That man campaigned successfully to make backup cameras required. I think the act that mandated them is named after his son.

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u/TheSpanxxx 7h ago

Cars have an insane amount of electronics and safety features in them that old cars just didn't have.

But all those "features" come at a cost.

Nobody is talking about the other major culprit here - logistics, fuel, fees. Cars are not made in one place. A car will literally have components from 1000s of suppliers in it. All of those parts have to be made and shipped. They also are made by companies that want to make a profit too. And they are made with materials that are often shipped. All shipping uses fuel. Import shipping incurs fees.

It. All. Adds. Up.

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u/Flat_Presence3607 9h ago

All these frills are to increase manufacturer profit margins. Bare bones models won’t be profitable, hence they’re not going to build or sell such a vehicle in North America. Capitalism at its finest

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u/BeefistPrime 5h ago

The "frills" barely cost anything at scale, and non-luxury car manufacturing is indeed incredibly competitive and good value, so it's unironically capitalism at its finest. Something like a Toyota Camry is basically the most efficient piece of engineering on Earth with a low profit margin.

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u/LalafellDisaster 9h ago

There are quality affordable Chinese EV’s that the USA government has blocked from being sold there. The USA is a corporate monopoly.

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u/No-Aerie-999 8h ago

They did the same thing to phones.

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u/BSchafer 8h ago

That’s because the Chinese government forced its cell phone and modem manufacturers to put spy devices in the ones sold to Western countries. It’s actually pretty interesting if you read up on it but the cell phone ban was actually a good thing. Unless of course you like the Chinese spying on you and harvesting your data.

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u/JohnBurgerson 8h ago

I heard Canada is about to start letting them in, maybe they’ll trickle down south (highly unlikely)

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u/cansofgrease 8h ago

Why would they? You can't even import a Canadian market Tesla after like 2023.

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u/dksdragon43 7h ago

Canada is letting in a very small number (we also have a large car manufacturing industry). They will not trickle down, the whole point of us letting them in is to open our options after USA started a trade war with us.

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u/UrMomIsVeryBig 7h ago

""Quality""

I'm a mechanic and had the displeasure of working on a chinese ev (was a geely, can't remember the model) and they are bottom of the barrel quality. Cheap plastic everywhere, awful quality control and unsourceable parts. Service information was borderline incomprehensible, lots of content was missing and what was there was a shitty translation from Chinese to english. Ended up not being able to finish the repair as the bcm had bricked itself and the manufacturer doesn't sell replacement parts, at least anywhere in the USA.

If you need an example of a cheap EV imported from Asia to the US take a look at the Vinfast suv that killed a family of four because of a software error.

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u/jasapper 6h ago

Well that last part was an interesting rabbit hole to go down yikes

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u/saiyan_strong 7h ago

Brands from China like BYD are getting pretty popular in Mexico. I don’t know shit about cars but some of them seem pretty nice for how much they cost.

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u/AmericusBarbaricuss 4h ago

The Chinese would happily subsidize the shit out of their EVs long enough to obliterate the US auto sector, then up the prices when we have no onshore alternatives. I’m pro-competition and not a nativist but this dumping playbook is hardly a secret.

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u/ring2ding 9h ago

Chinese EV's are insanely cheap. Our Government won't let them sell here though.

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u/Katana-Kat 9h ago

Something something free market something something competition something something

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u/SvartrKukkSceand 8h ago

there's at least a glimmer of "its not a free market" when all those companies are only so cheap because they are MASSIVELY subsidized by the Chinese Government.

I dont agree with banning them, but the argument is there and legit at least a little.

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u/OstapBenderBey 8h ago

Not like American car companies havent receieved massive government subsidies over the years either. GM alone got 50 billion in 2008

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u/bremsspuren 7h ago

The Chinese aren't trying to save a failing industry, they're trying to drive everyone else out of it by selling below cost.

China's dominance in solar, batteries, EVs is largely a result of their subsidies making them unprofitable industries to be in for anyone else.

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u/robmanjr 8h ago

We subsidize all kinds of stupid shit like teslas or anything else that super genius wants, but not regular cars.

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u/joka2696 8h ago

We bailed out the big three long before the "super genius".

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u/Dracomortua 8h ago

Yes, multiple times. In the 80s and then again about 30 years later.

Not to mention gas subsidies as well as bankrupting most forms of rail. Off the top of my head? I am sure that they got more but i am not an American.

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u/nalaloveslumpy 7h ago

The Chinese gov't part is simply an excuse. The real reason they're banned is they'll crush the US market like Toyota and Nissan did in the 80s and the 90s. Except this time, the US market won't survive.

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u/Relative-Wrap6798 5h ago

American and European automakers would go out of business overnight. There is no competing against Chinese production lines and labor costs. Then we'd have roads filled with Chinese vehicles that are always online, gathering and listening on every bit of data they can and phoning it back home.

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u/NoForever3645 8h ago

The Chevy Trax. Bought my wife one brand new a couple years back, mid trim level and right off the truck with less than a mile on it. It was $23K, cheaper than some of the USED cars we were looking at. She loves it, it has CarPlay and OnStar and a few safety options but otherwise is very bare-bones and really feels like it was made with a focus on just driving. We haven’t had any issues with it so far.

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u/NateNate60 6h ago

Bought a new 2027 Chevrolet Bolt a few months ago. I paid $26,300 out the door, but I think the base model can be had for a few thousand less. It's a pretty no-frills car, just no Android Auto which was disappointing but the built in Google Maps navigation is a good enough substitute. I'm happy with it and it's saved me a bundle in fuel.

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u/Fishtoart 9h ago

Electric windows are probably cheaper than the cranks because the installation is much easier

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u/FeelMyBoars 8h ago

Sourcing parts would be easier as well.

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u/zespak 6h ago

Yep, this happens as well. At one point you'd be the only one trying the "cheaper" option at which point you lose the economy of scale battle.

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u/opticalshadow 9h ago

The problem is, cars have to have backup cameras, per law, so they have to have screens. It's not expensive to produce a car with a infotainment system, and without one, but still use a screen.

Lights cost next to nothing. So do most of the other features of post complains about.

There are about of reasons the cars cost more, but really those quality of life things help justify the price, not really drive it up.

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u/ArmenianThunderGod 8h ago

The real reason cars are so expensive is because the dolts who spent 4x a car's value during COVID showed manufacturers they could get away with charging a lot more.

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u/Comfortable_Main5400 8h ago

You are 100% correct.

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u/IEnjoyRadios 8h ago

The problem is, cars have to have backup cameras, per law, so they have to have screens. It's not expensive to produce a car with a infotainment system, and without one, but still use a screen.

And those cameras cost nothing. I like the idea behind the post, but these features are not why prices are skyrocketing. Prices are skyrocketing because they can.

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u/thrustin_beaver 8h ago

My 2023 chevy express has no screens. Back up camera is in the rear view mirror and maybe about 3 inches. No Bluetooth other than phone calls need aux cord to play music.

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u/Same-Suggestion-1936 8h ago

I don't even need Bluetooth or aux. I have CDs and a radio. Give me bare bones

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u/Chaotic-Catastrophe 4h ago

I can't imagine adding an aux port costs more than like...fifty cents.

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u/Future-Step-1780 2h ago

The thing is, I bet the bluetooth module is cheaper than a CD player.

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u/UpvoteForLuck 8h ago

Slate (a pre production BEV compact truck) gets around having a center infotainment screen by displaying the backup camera in the digital gauge cluster.

But yeah, I agree. None of those things are costing the manufacturer much. Slate is going to cost 25k. Ford says they’re working on a 28k truck. I’m sure that Ford will be including all of the things that Slate isn’t, for 3k more, and they’re going to paint the truck, too.

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u/LongJohnSelenium 6h ago

Slate annoys me because they're avoiding using obvious cheap standards for their more expensive proprietary versions.

Every accessory possible should have come from the design of a cheap 90s car where 3rd parties are still selling parts, like some old Camry, the headlights should have been LED versions of the standard round or square lense used for 60 years, the dash should have a double DIN slot for the many, many DIN compatible radios still manufactured.

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u/Larcye 8h ago

Also becuese new car buyers want all of the features. I mean I see 10,000 KIA Tellurides on my commute to work for a reason.

The Stripper trim levels of cars sit on lots for months becuese new car buyers don't want them.

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u/JefferzTheGreat 8h ago

The Changii has a backup camera, and it's illegal to drive on the street in many places.
If I can drive a motorcycle without a helmet down the street, I should be able to drive a cheap Chinese electric car, like the Changli, or a kei truck down that same street.

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u/craigian11 7h ago

The ladies car doesn't last more than 70k miles I think she wants one that doesn't require oil too

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u/Dry-Egg8573 9h ago

Crank windows are more expensive to make than electric ones

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u/sunny2theface 8h ago

Where do you get that from? No shot a crank + rack and pinion is more expensive than something electronically powered.

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u/Get_screwd 7h ago

Its cheaper due to economies of scale. Their mass manufacture has made them cheaper to produce at volume compared to crank windows.

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u/molassascookieman 9h ago

You could literally buy the 80s sentra brand new until like 2017 in Mexico. There’s always a market for a super basic car, but car companies in the US want to gouge us for every dollar we have.

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u/nalaloveslumpy 6h ago

There's no margin on bare-bones cars, so they don't sell them in the US anymore. They also tend to sit on lots forever because the overwhelming US consumer doesn't want a bare-bones car.

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u/dontich 9h ago

I mean they banned all cars from China as well. There are a bunch of Chinese startups doing basically this.

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u/whatsnext355 8h ago

Aren’t Teslas made in China?

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u/whatsnext355 8h ago

Just double checked. The Teslas sold in the US are built in America. Chinese built Teslas are sold in Europe, Canada and Australia.

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u/ayyG_itsMe 9h ago

Check out the Slate truck!!

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u/dannyheskett 9h ago

The data doesn't support it. Average car price is $49k in the US; there are a number of cars that are priced near $20k, and they don't sell very well.

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u/fosterdad2017 8h ago

It's forced.

You cant buy a base model car with the upgrade engine... You have to buy leather taint massage seats to get the correct engine. Suspension is the same, you want the better suspension and brake package but it's locked behind a stereo system upgrade.

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u/dannyheskett 8h ago

The point is that there are cars that cost less, that don't sell. The market is saying: base cars don't sell. And lower priced models in general don't sell.

The average trim is 2nd from best trim. The best trim outsells the base trim 2:1.

Your preferences for better suspension but without taint massager is bespoke. The demand for specific upgrades you favor is tiny.

Car manufacturers are adding more luxury features, but that's because.. the average car price is $49k, and most buyers want luxury features.

The OP's complaint is fair sentiment but is not reflected in the actual buying trends or patterns of the market.

Less equipped, inexpensive models.. do not sell well. Almost every lower cost model has been discontinued and replaced with mid-market or up-market versions. And the base trim of every model inches up because that's what people want.

There is a Camry you can buy new for $26k; but the average Camry sells for $32k. And it's not even close.

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u/oatwheat 8h ago

Ah they learned from Apple

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u/Definitelynotagolem 9h ago

The problem is that the current auto manufacturers would lobby extensively to require cars to have all the extra features and it’s already started. Apparently in some places it’s the law now that new cars have to track eye movements. Surveillance tech will not only be mainstream but 100% required along with all the other “features” that get passed off as safety features

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u/it_is_hopper 9h ago

Gotta fill up these data centers with not only flock outside the car, but simultaneous video from INSIDE the car too!!

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u/ohthedarside 9h ago

See dacia in Europe very well selling and there base model cars are so simple they dont even have air con

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u/Flimsy6769 8h ago

No it wouldn’t lmao the average person loves the fancy tech stuff that Redditors hate

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u/FrozenIceman 9h ago

Sadly US regulation on cars keeps the back to basic cars out of the US market.

US regulation dictates extreme smart cars, especially in the monitoring all systems in the OBD 2 standards to transmit to gov authorities, accept remote shutdown commands, and shutdown when detected the driver is under the influence.

You need all that tech in the cars to stop it safely on the highway.

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u/Temporary_Cup4588 8h ago

What’s this about US regulations requiring all of this silly stuff? We have a 2006 Toyota without any of that and it’s always passed inspection. Nobody has ever told us that we can’t drive it. Police have never stopped us. And what about people with really old classic cars? They’re not supposed to be on the road? These claims sound suspicious to me.

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u/1DownFourUp 9h ago

I drive a lot for work and I would be very interested in a pseudo luxury car that's just focused on comfort with tactile controls. Give me big comfy land yacht seats, a smooth ride, and no screens, lane departure warnings, or other gimmicky shit. Just a good, comfy, reliable car for putting away the miles.

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u/nico282 8h ago

If you drive a lot the new adaptive cruise control and the lane following systems are a godsend. Long highway runs are much less tiring.

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u/1DownFourUp 8h ago

Fair. I'll concede on this one. I don't have it on my old beater, but it's great in the rental cars I sometimes get.

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u/Iggy_Slayer 8h ago

There was a chinese car company that wanted to bring a car like that over here. It was going to cost something like $8k (don't quote me on the exact figure, but it was very cheap) and car companies were losing their fucking minds over it and begging the govt to ban it.

edit: I see I'm late on mentioning that.

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u/realmrrust 8h ago

Ever since the break from Trump Canada decided to let in a few of these. Apparently they're super affordable and Australia has a bunch of them already.

I mean look at the North American market. You can't even really get a small hatchback anymore. That size of vehicle is completely out of the market.

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u/LordOFtheNoldor 8h ago

It would decimate the competition

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u/Ahtman1 8h ago

The Slate EV pickup truck fits that description. You can add stuff but the base model has minimal data display (speed, charge left, and a third I can't remember) and crank windows.

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u/metaldark 8h ago

As the owner of a Corolla Hybrid im 98% certain this person is describing a Corolla LE trim. 

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u/Blackchainsawman 8h ago

Introducing Amazon basics car

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u/IudexJudy 8h ago

Mitsubishi did that and it sold like ass, Nissan did that both the Versa and it sold like ass, GM does it with the Trax and it sells okay. People claim they want things out of cars and then they don't buy it.

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u/Ace861110 5h ago

They suck balls. No ac? Roll down windows in the summer? Good luck. You have rose colored glasses on from your childhood. Source: me who had that in a Nissan versa.

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