Regrets And Perspectives

[u/Timbucktwo1230]

[u/Dddddd92]

Having children and a family and sometimes even a partner means sacrificing somethings and making choices. The mother wants the daughter the choose better than she did. She is completely valid in her perspective

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/Dddddd92]

This! She wants her daughter to secure her personal choices before getting to the other phase in her life. It doesn't mean she regrets her children. All these posters try to not hear what the mother is saying.

[u/Time-Weekend-8611 → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

The word she used as "mistake."

Sure sounds like regret.

[u/Time-Weekend-8611 → u/[deleted]]

She makes it sound like its her husband's fault.

[u/Accomplished_Self939 → u/Time-Weekend-8611]

It is the husband’s fault that her sacrifice was invisible to him.

[u/Time-Weekend-8611 → u/Accomplished_Self939]

Her husband was literally bringing in the income for the entire family. She certainly didn't seem to appreciate that.

[u/what-fresh-hells → u/Time-Weekend-8611]

You think someone sacrificing their own career dreams, birthing your children, and caring for your home so that you can focus on your career signals that they do not appreciate you or your career?

[u/Time-Weekend-8611 → u/what-fresh-hells]

birthing your children, and caring for your home

Interesting choice of words. Weren't they her children? Wasn't it her home?

Her husband brought home the bacon for twenty years and never expected any special kind of gratitude because he accepted those responsibilities according to their mutually agreed upon division of labor.

He wasn't the one crying about how he was forced to work a job because his wife stay at home status made it impossible to quit.

If the wife wanted to return to the workforce she could have done so at any time. She didn't have to carry three children to term. She didn't have to be a stay at home mom. Nobody was holding a gun to her head.

[u/what-fresh-hells → u/Time-Weekend-8611]

It's almost like you didn't read the post or perhaps you are simply entirely unable to put yourself in the perspective of this woman.

Your rebuttal once again fails to hear her actual argument, to acknowledge her sacrifice and contribution, and ignores entirely that the way their family system was organized did not support her goals or autonomy. It was never as simple as if she wanted to, she could have. She didn't because she allowed him to, and he never made supporting her doing so a priority. THAT is what she is communicating to her daughter. For young women not to fall into the trap of sacrificing your goals, needs, and wants for someone else, who has not demonstrated a willingness to also prioritize yours.

[u/Time-Weekend-8611 → u/what-fresh-hells]

and ignores entirely that the way their family system was organized did not support her goals or autonomy

Is there a reason she couldn't bring that up to her husband instead of passive aggressively blaming him for her not having a carreer?

Is there a reason why she couldn't have said to her husband "Hey, let's put a pause on kids because I really want to go to nursing school?"

Is there a reason why she couldn't have said, "Hey, I'd really like you to take some of the responsibilities around the house so that we can both work on a career."

But she didn't. She said nothing for twenty years while stewing inside and expected him toread her mind without her having to open her mouth.

For young women not to fall into the trap of sacrificing your goals, needs, and wants for someone else, who has not demonstrated a willingness to also prioritize yours.

Oh my god, stop infantilizing women.

She could have just opened her mouth at any point and had a frank discussion with her husband about kids and finances. But she didn't. She stewed for twenty years and blamed him for not reading her mind.

[u/stickyfantastic → u/what-fresh-hells]

"allowed him to"??? He didn't have a choice either. Huh??

[u/Destithen → u/what-fresh-hells]

It's almost like you didn't read the post

Or we did and came to a different conclusion than you. This definitely ain't a black and white topic, and there's probably a million things people could point out that both the man and the woman could have done differently.

[u/Street_Estate2342 → u/what-fresh-hells]

Apparently not, because they literally called doing that a mistake.

[u/what-fresh-hells → u/Street_Estate2342]

She called sacrificing her dreams for his at a time when she could have chosen herself a mistake. It does not follow that she then believes every subsequent decision to have been a mistake or that she cannot appreciate his work or contributions to their family. She obviously does, given she literally enabled it with her sacrifices. She is encouraging her daughter to choose herself. She believes that her daughter can have love and a family AND her own dreams and goals. I dont think that idea is offensive.

[u/Street_Estate2342 → u/what-fresh-hells]

Emphasis on why blaming the husband alone is unreasonable

It takes two people to have what happens here happen. It is unreasonable how she blames her husband alone.

In the third slide she says “you just made sure saying yes would destroy the entire system” that can’t be concluded based on the post’s information. The system could have been restructured to enable her to go to school, but she didn’t work with him and say “yes”.

Genderswapped example that still fits gender-norms

This is the gender swapped equivalent of a man-and-woman relationship where the man tries to saddle a massive bill on the woman that is equivalent to all of the things said man has bought for said woman (flowers, dinners, etc.)

The man still bought said items, literally enabled it with his time, effort, and money, but it makes it very obvious that he doesn’t value it.

The woman is doing the same thing here. Yes, she isn’t outright saying it, but it’s very obvious that she is saddling all the blame onto him for a two-person decision.

[u/stickyfantastic → u/what-fresh-hells]

You're assuming "focus on your career" is only a positive thing. 

Also it sounds like she didn't choose a man over school, she chose a child over school lol

[u/Accomplished_Self939 → u/Accomplished_Self939]

And he didn’t appreciate the way she rearranged her life so he could have everything he wanted.

[u/olivi4rodrigo → u/Accomplished_Self939]

If you want something, you have to take the initiative. If she wanted a career, like many women with children do have, she should have said it to him directly. If he was unable, or unwilling, to make that work, then she should have left him. I understand it’s easier said than done, but only you have true power over your own life. She accepted that it was her fate. Is he faultless? No, but it isn’t anywhere near solely his fault. She is a person who can and should have made her own decisions if they were important to her. It’s easy to blame others for your life being the way it is, but only you have the power to change it.

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/olivi4rodrigo]

I completely agree with you, she had agency. And these are the type of women who divorce when the kids leave.

[u/TacosAreLife007 → u/[deleted]]

She has the right to have regrets. She does not have the right to accuse her husband to be the sole reason why the very thing she regrets took place. She is an adult woman who got pregnant not once, but twice. She clearly wanted to have kids. To make her husband the reason she could not become a nurse AND attack him in front of the children is toxic and betrayal.

She should blame herself for her regret. Nobody forced her into parenthood.

[u/complexdevoid → u/TacosAreLife007]

That wasn't an attack by the texts description. The mother clearly stated something she feels and experienced. Something she doesn't want her daughter to go through. The context was relevant to it's disclosure. The fact that it makes Dad uncomfortable and he feels blindsided is telling given the rest of the conversation.

[u/TacosAreLife007 → u/complexdevoid]

Maybe she didn't intent it as an attack, but it sure is one. An attack on trust. What she said is no different than telling her kids that she regrets starting a family with their father and having them. That her husband and them (the kids) are the reason why she couldn't fulfill her career goals.

I believe most people will consider this to be an attack. An attack on the trust they build and their view on the relationship.

You can guide your kids with advice without throwing your partner under the bus. I've received much advice from my parents. Not once did they claim the other is the catalyst for things they did not reach in life.

[u/complexdevoid → u/TacosAreLife007]

The problem is is that you can't remove Dad from the equation. It is not an attack when you hear something uncomfortable. That is your reaction. She stated facts as she sees them. Her daughter is about to make what she feels is the same mistake. She has every right and in my opinion obligation to protect her child from any harm that she can prevent

[u/TacosAreLife007 → u/complexdevoid]

Did you even read the post? They were arguing, which means the way she brought it forth was an attack and she is making him the catalyst of why she did not become a nurse.

"Never give up your future for another man like I did with your father".

If I was the husband having heard that, I would also see this as my wife regretting being with me and regretting the life we shared. That she would rather actually not be with me or have started a family with me. That's truly a disgusting thing to say to your partner. And if you can't see this, then I wish you best of luck in life.

You can protect your children from your regrets, but nuking your marriage in the process is something else entirely.

[u/complexdevoid → u/TacosAreLife007]

I disagree. They weren't arguing by the description. They were having a discussion and disagreement. In fact this seems carefully written to avoid that word . The fact that people have feelings about something that we discuss doesn't have to be an argument. Plus two pet have to be in it to win in. He has checked out long before this post. If fact he isn't asking for help he wants validation which is what you are giving him. Permission to not work on his relationship with his wife.
She doesn't want her daughter to make a bad decision. The fact that makes everyone uncomfortable should be irrelevant which is what I said to someone else but upon more examination I think it makes it more relevant. Don't want to feel this way well you could avoid that is a totally acceptable way to express yourself. The fact that dad is the subject matter is unfortunate but it is a fact. You people just want women to be silent

[u/TacosAreLife007 → u/complexdevoid]

And I disagree with your premise.

I'm sorry, but I cannot take you seriously when you conveniently dismiss the very first line she said. Which is incredibly hurtful and demeaning towards her husband, especially in front of their children.

You are bringing in new contexts and scenarios in your desperate attempt to erase her responsibility and accountability for nuking her marriage at this point.

Like I said before, you can teach your children to make different decisions in life, but not at the cost of your spouse. She basically threw her spouse AND her children under the bus. She blamed not only the husband, but also having children for the reason she didn't become the nurse. And she is doing it with a lot of resentment that comes across as hurtful, abusive and demeaning.

If you don't see the problem in how she presented her regrets, then there is nothing further to discuss.

Based on what we can see, this woman is resentful, non-communicative (only when it boils up) and very demeaning. Such words are not meant to just 'protect the kids'. They are capable of destroying whole relationships and family systems.

"You people just want women to be silent"

Ah, and that reveals the real story. You're not sticking up for her because of what's right or wrong. You're sticking up to her because she is a woman and assuming everyone is against her for misogynistic reasons.

Others have tried to point out the obvious to you, as well. I'm not going to waste more time on you.

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/Time-Weekend-8611]

You can make mistakes without having regrets. I'm not sure how old you are, but I look back at my life and would say "what if" and I made mistakes with my career choice. Life is complicated, she wants her kid to go to college away b/c she knows the family can wait. The husband is just feeling pain b/c he is having a hard time realizing it.

[u/real-bebsi → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

tell your partner that settling down with them was a mistake and you're just happy it all worked out on your next anniversary let me know how well that goes over

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/real-bebsi]

Nope, because I like my partner. She obviously doesn't like him, duh. She'll be divorcing him as soon as the kids are out of the house.

[u/Street_Estate2342 → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

Nah. Calling that a mistake is an insane thing to say. 

[u/esmerelda_b → u/Time-Weekend-8611]

My mom told me that if she had to do it over, she wouldn’t have kids. She would’ve traveled instead.

[u/Pendo-illsmackabitch → u/Time-Weekend-8611]

You can make mistakes and not regret them amd you can regret things that were not mistakes

[u/underboobfunk → u/Time-Weekend-8611]

They both made the “mistake”, yet only one of them had to pay for that “mistake” with their career.

[u/Time-Weekend-8611 → u/underboobfunk]

That's not the husband's fault. Nobody made the wife carry the child at gunpoint. She could have gotten an abortion.

[u/KeyFeeFee → u/Time-Weekend-8611]

You think that would’ve been ok in the context of their marriage? 

[u/fantafanta_ → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

She doesn't regret the kids, but she definitely sounds like she regrets the marriage and blames it all on him. She choose to have kids and with that comes sacrifices.

[u/ShaolinWombat → u/[deleted]]

You are making an assumption that he enjoyed his job over that entire period. Not everyone gets to have a job they enjoy or coworkers they like. For most of us jobs are also a sacrifice.

[u/goochy_86 → u/[deleted]]

Ah yes because having the stress of financial burden of the entire household is nothing right. Knowing if you don't sacrifice your time and energy you could lose your job and your family will suffer is peanuts compared to what the wife is dealing with. Sure she could have done classes from home or enrolled the kids in daycare, but that would require open direct communication instead of hints. Stories like this are exhausting because it always shits on the person giving up all their time and energy working and praises the person who doesn't communicate their issues properly.

[u/977888 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah man doing the laundry and cooking dinner is so much harder than being a project manager responsible for providing for five people.

[u/Muted_Quantity5786 → u/977888]

Doing the laundry, cooking, cleaning, shopping for, running errands for, managing appointments and schedules for 3 kids is a lot like being a project manager except you’re not getting paid. That goes for either men or women or whoever is the one doing all of it.

[u/977888 → u/Muted_Quantity5786]

It’s really not.

Basically every person who is single manages to do all of these things while working a full-time job. These are basic life functions.

Also hanging out with your kids is not work. And appointments happen what, once or twice a year? Extracurriculars once a week or so max? School handles them most of the time.

It amounts to like two or three of actual work per day, max. It’s the easiest life a non-rich person could possibly have.

It’s important work that provides value to the family, but it’s extremely easy. Many if not most working fathers would trade anything to be able to spend time home with the kids each day instead of working their life away.

[u/Muted_Quantity5786 → u/977888]

Have you ever done it? Appointments are absolutely
not once or twice a year. There are also extracurricular activities, meeting at school, some kids need extras like tutoring or speech therapy for example. Whether you think so or not, you’re devaluing actual labor. Now, if you’re like my mom was and spend all of your time getting plastic surgery and shopping at Bergdorfs and getting your hair and nails done while also employing 2 full time nannies and a housekeeper- that’s a different story altogether.

[u/977888 → u/Muted_Quantity5786]

I’ve done it, and also have a couple friends who got to do it for a bit. We all agree that it was the easiest and most stress-free portion of our lives. I can see it not being fun if you have nightmare children, but that’s about it.

The worst thing that could happen being home with kids were if they spilled or broke something or were being slightly annoying or defiant. The worst thing that happened at work was seeing someone be killed by a large machine, or getting screamed at by higher-ups or having another worker ruin weeks of my work by doing something wrong. Now in the white collar world it’s dealing with unrealistic expectations daily, getting hassled outside of work for things etc.

I’d give literally anything to go back.

That caricature of a mom you had is pretty wild though. Sounds like it sucked. I hope people aren’t assuming that’s what I think every SAHM lives like. That isn’t the case.

[u/Muted_Quantity5786 → u/977888]

I think that anyone who says that being a stay at home parent is stress free and easier than working is delusional. I’ll end it at that.

[u/977888 → u/Muted_Quantity5786]

You’re just extremely sheltered or never had a real job then. Or you have nightmare kids. I’ll end it at that.

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/[deleted]]

I don't see why the posters don't get this. There's a reason so many women divorce after the kids leave and then the guy is shocked! So, they can feel bad for him all they want, but she's going to leave him as soon as she can and she's telling him why. OP can feel good with people defending him here, but his marriage days are numbered.

[u/Magnon → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

People go back to school when they're in their 30s all the time. She could've chosen to pursue her nursing career again after the kids were in school. That would change their home life, but it doesn't sound like she even talked to him about the possibility. She just let resentment build for 20 years about something she could've done 12-15 years ago.

[u/Conscious-Wind-7785 → u/[deleted]]

True but could it have been the other way at least early on? Her sacrifice let him work, his sacrifice would have left them no income while she went to school.

It sucks and it isn't fair but she didn't do it for him, she did it for the kids. The better lesson is don't sacrifice your life for kids.

Either way there is a better way to have that convo with your husband and the kids.

[u/underboobfunk → u/fantafanta_]

They chose to have kids, she made the sacrifices.

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/fantafanta_]

Yep, and then he will be shocked when she divorces him. He can work to fix it or she walks. These are the women who divorce when the kids leave and the guy is shocked, I tell you!

[u/RedhandedMan → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

No, she's projecting her issue onto her daughter because she doesn't actually know how to handle them. That's unhealthy.

[u/stingertc → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

But the problem is she absolutely shit on her husband to the kid

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/stingertc]

Yeah, because she doesn't like him. And you're reading his version of their life, remember. And he'll be shocked when she divorces him, shocked!

[u/Sweet_Solid_7746 → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

You seem like an insanely callous person

[u/Prune-These → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

And his feelings don't count for anything? He didn't give up certain things to start a family? She's also saying to her children, "I gave up my dreams to become a mother". AND...if she had these dreams, why didn't she stop getting pregnant after one child? My late mother was a nurses assistant; my father passed away when I was 10. She worked as a nurse and still raised five kids, all of us graduated from college. She could have studied part -time if it meant that much to her and she could have gone to school once her youngest entered high school. If she was say 19 when she first got pregnant then she'd be in her late thirties which is not too old to learn a trade. If I were the husband, I'd use the od expression "Get off the cross, other people need the wood".

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/Prune-These]

No, she's not. When you're old, not sure your age, you can look back with wonderings and what ifs-- and she's saying it out loud to tell her daughter not go this route. And doesn't his feelings count? Sounds like they've counted for a lot for years.

[u/Prune-These → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

I'll be 64 in a few months. Do I have regrets? YES! But I don't blame other people for the choices I made. Life is learning from your mistakes and making peace with them, not dwelling on them and certainly not telling the people you're supposed to love that your life with them was a mistake.

Ok, let's assume they had a son. How about this! He tells his son in front of his wife and daughters "Son, don't get trapped with a family at a young age. I could have dated all these other women, travelled to exotic places and club all night but instead I started a family. Enjoy your freedom while you can." Would that be out of line?

[u/Electronic-Smile-457 → u/Prune-These]

She doesn't like him, I don't think people are getting it? And we're reading his version of events. At your age (I'm older, too), you have surely seen women walk away from these types of marriages? Where a woman is just done and maybe (maybe?) he deserves her resentment. I want her side, too.

[u/Prune-These → u/Electronic-Smile-457]

If she hates him then she/they should get counseling. Either fix their marriage or end it amicably; if not for themselves, then for their children. Bickering and blaming each other, what does that do to the kids? "Is this what marriage looks like? Why would I want to get married?".

And maybe the daughter is making a mistake, maybe not. But if you did your job as a parent, then your adult kids will live and learn from their mistakes.