r/leafs • • 21h ago

Discussion Daily Free Talk / Armchair GM Thread

Please use this thread to post ANYTHING you want! Memes, photoshops, anything that would normally be removed for breaking the low-effort content rule, is totally, 100% welcome here!

This thread can also be used for Armchair GM ideas that may not require a standalone post. Is there a free agent you want to see on this team? Is there a player that's rumoured to be on the move that you think the Leafs should go after? Are there players on this team you want to trade away? Feel free to post about it here!

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5 Upvotes

217 comments sorted by

-1

u/BlastingBegins 5h ago

Everyone laments the hole on the team after Marner left but losing Holmberg was even worse 

-1

u/TheRC135 6h ago

The thing that makes OV hard to rank is his longevity. Wasn't ever as dominant as most of the other guys you'd put in the top 10 (which feels mildly absurd to say about a guy who was top goal scorer 9 different times, but we're talking GOATs here) but he was an excellent player for a long time, and a very good one for a long time after that. None of the other greats held the bar as high as he did for as long as he did.

3

u/DataDude00 5h ago

Wasn’t as dominant? 

What the hell am I reading. 

Dude is the all time goals leader and has 9 rocket trophies including a stretch where he won it 7/8 years 

How can you  dominate more than that ? 

1

u/TheRC135 4h ago edited 4h ago

I mean specifically in comparison to other guys you'd put in the top 5 or 10 best players of all time category.

The best ever if all you look at is goals. Obviously. But even the years OV easily won the scoring race, there were other guys playing you could reasonably argue were better overall players or more valuable to their team.

And he never really had that magic ability to single-handedly drag his team to greatness. Everybody else I'd put on a top 10 of all time list did.

I still think OV makes that list because he was so good for so long, but say he'd retired at 35, or kept playing but sucked since then... would you still put him in the top 10? I wouldn't.

That's what I mean about his longevity making him hard to evaluate.

2

u/TheDeek 4h ago

Yeah I would argue that it is the longevity but more that people forget just how dominant he was because he is still around and not playing nearly at that level. He is like the Rolling Stones - still around but not making albums like at their peak.

2

u/TheRC135 4h ago

That's a great comparison

1

u/TheDeek 4h ago

Cheers :)

1

u/j0c1ef25 7h ago

So OV announced his retirement at the end of the season. I'm curious what people might think about where you put him on the All - Time greatest list. Top 5? Top 10? It's not easy because you have to make a case for who you take out.

1

u/supermeatboy10 6h ago

He's definitely behind Gretzky, Lemieux and Crosby at a minimum for forwards, and probably debatable with jagr and howe. For D probably just orr is ahead so I'd say he's anywhere from 5th - 8th all time for me, really hard to compare to guys who played so long ago tho

1

u/Showtime98 7h ago

Gotta be top 10, probably around 6-8 for me

1

u/baylaust 7h ago

I feel like being the greatest goal scorer in NHL history makes him an automatic Top 5, no less than Top 10.

-5

u/Volderon90 7h ago

Sens are a wagon I guess. Wow

1

u/DialedDrawback 4h ago

It's two games, and I watched a good chunk of that game. Yeah, Ottawa's a decently coached team and have decent depth at centre.

Boston somewhoe found a way to beat themselves and were 2 seconds away from allowing 2 shorthanded goals on the same fucking powerplay. They absolutely deserved to get their asses kicked tonight with how they played.

0

u/ilovetrouble66 Ekman-Larsson 7h ago

Their D code is v strong and that Stutzle is on a heater plus Ullmark is dialled

3

u/jimmie9393 6h ago

Missing Sanderson and Zub, so it will be even stronger.

3

u/acegfx 7h ago

Brady was holding em back

1

u/SenorEquilibrado 5h ago

This but unironically

2

u/SalaciousPandaPart3 TROYS BOYS 7h ago

It's cool the Bs are getting whooped but it would be cooler if it was a Pacific team doing it 😑

15

u/Loric76 8h ago

3

u/SalaciousPandaPart3 TROYS BOYS 7h ago

😓

4

u/ilovetrouble66 Ekman-Larsson 8h ago

I would pay to listen to THAT convo 👀

3

u/Key_Travel9620 8h ago

I’ll be glad if the bruins loose to Ottawa .

1

u/MaterialRecipe9479 9h ago

I can get behind wings fans being pissed at Larkin

I can get that this NMC thing sucks.

But there is to me no grey area on who is at fault and its not the players lol. There is nothing about NMCs not being able to be used to leverage a trade in the contract. Theyre using the power they have.

Realistically speaking - why isnt Yzerman getting heat for this? no team on larkins list is trading for him because hes not a cost effective upgrade. Like would florida trade barkov for mcdavid? Yes 100%

So save the NMC for a player of that calibre then… not some 2nd liner who will cost more than he’ll improve the team.

3

u/SalaciousPandaPart3 TROYS BOYS 8h ago

Not sure where you've been by Stevie Y is getting absolutely blasted over the state of things, Larkin included.

1

u/Loric76 8h ago

Gonna be hilarious when Edvinsson gets traded first and Larkin has to sit and watch him go.

7

u/Samurai1221 9h ago

The Marchenko media today is hilarious lol great sense of humor

5

u/Loric76 8h ago

Since the trade a few CBJ fans have come here to say he does this. Class clown in the locker room and with the media.

6

u/SalaciousPandaPart3 TROYS BOYS 9h ago

Dude endeared himself so fucking quickly to this market it's unreal.

1

u/Nylanderthal88 13h ago

So I noticed these Super Pak channels in my Xfinity guide, and it was pretty awesome because it had some OHL and NHL games. I thought it was something I had had the whole time and just didn't notice.... No it's just a free preview and ends today 🫠

1

u/Volderon90 9h ago

You still get sportsnet premium though so we can actually watch out of market games sometimes 

2

u/Nylanderthal88 9h ago

Yes it's not terrible. But when the 24 month intro price is gone I am so out.

1

u/ilovetrouble66 Ekman-Larsson 9h ago

Ohhhh I have them too. How do you know it’s a free trial?

2

u/Nylanderthal88 9h ago

1

u/ilovetrouble66 Ekman-Larsson 9h ago

Awwwww bummer! I thought my cable got upgraded or something

2

u/Nylanderthal88 6h ago

if only eh!

3

u/Substantial_Mud_357 13h ago

Yea they do that at the beginning of the season. I did watch some games too, but I knew it wouldn't last.

1

u/Nylanderthal88 13h ago

I was so stoked yesterday watching games but today I got scared I had fucked up and checked my account for extra charges. Lo and behold too good to be true. Classic Rogers honeydicking.

3

u/jimmie9393 12h ago

Yeah they try to suck you in to purchase the Super Pakage

2

u/Att3241 Sundin 13h ago

Honeydicking is an elite phrase which I will be using from now on. Thank you.

5

u/CanadianCheeseMan 13h ago

@ Mods - would it be possible to have the month's game in the sidebars again? It was quite useful when I was looking for games

-5

u/[deleted] 13h ago

[deleted]

1

u/123jazzhandz321 10h ago

If they wanna get creative,

Miles Wood + Dakota Joshua + Draft Capital

For Connor Zary would be pretty interesting

-2

u/DialedDrawback 13h ago

.75m is nothing for a lot of teams. We instead have injured/buried players and deadweight.

8

u/DessertRose17 14h ago

I want more from Matthews.

2

u/ilovetrouble66 Ekman-Larsson 9h ago

This is him now. I know everyone says it was Bérubé, it was the injuries, it was because he lost Mitchy but the true stars in this league perform no matter what. He doesn’t seem to have the passion anymore and doesn’t want to get injured so plays way less aggressive. His shot doesn’t seem the same.

7

u/Grand-Amoeba1832 11h ago

In his 69 goal season he had 6 goals after 3 games. Just a tidbit of info. And he was dominant out of the gates. Not seeing that anymore.

7

u/123jazzhandz321 14h ago

I think unfortunately he’s no longer in that Hart tier of player, he’s still a 1C but more in the way that Sebastian Aho or Brayden Point are 1Cs.

0

u/Particular_Air_3598 13h ago

This sucks so much since we didn't do anything in his prime and it's going to suck even more when we give him 20 million next contract

-3

u/DialedDrawback 12h ago

He's not sticking around after his current deal expires unless we get past round 1(maybe round 2) this year, and I don't think we're getting past round 1 this year without Matthews being a 90 point player.

I won't fixate on goals since Marchenko has the potential to get Matthews a lot of assists, but my point still stands.

8

u/TheGapInTysonsTeeth 12h ago

It's pretty interesting that he would choose to leave for them not hitting an expectation that he himself was largely responsible for them not hitting.

That's basically the same as choosing to leave in my view.

That's why I think he actually stays

0

u/DialedDrawback 12h ago edited 12h ago

Why's it interesting? Matthews can have a good enough season for us not to pin it entirely on him, and they still fall short. Then Auston has to look around and ask if management can add the peices needed to win in the years ahead.

Otherwise, why would he stay? If he really wants to be here, then great. But as good as it is that he wants to be a Leaf, he's supposed to have the competitive fire to want to win more.

Sadly, we have the same shortcomings on the blueline we had 5-6 years ago, and now we have looming issues at centre as JT ages, Bob ages, Tanev ages, and we're 3-4 years away from developing a legit top 6 centre if we're extremely lucky(TLK or Hopkins) without trading assets we will eventually want else where in the lineup(Danford, Cowen, etc.).

Auston may have to come to the conclusion that they won't be able to build a winner around him for another half decade unless they get lucky in free agency.

3

u/bootygoon2 14h ago

For all the “we need a 2C” people in this sub I have a question, which 2C is available for a trade? The only guy I could maybe think of is Zacha if Boston is having a down year, and if he was traded it wouldn’t be until near the deadline anyway. Not to mention that there would be a bidding war to acquire him since multiple teams would be looking for ways to improve their centre depth and pickup a top six centre.

3

u/123jazzhandz321 10h ago

Zibanejad would be interesting as well, but I think the Rangers will be sneaky good this season so that is probably not gonna work

2

u/ClixMcNugget95 11h ago

EP40 if Van ends up at the bottom of the table, could've been had in the offseason if the price was right I'm sure. Had we given up a couple future picks and some prospects in the offseason we'd be calling Chayka the second coming of BT, but come deadline once EP40 looks like a different player, the cost will be too much.

0

u/Psychological_Map646 14h ago

Zary just on waivers

2

u/biggiexo 13h ago

Zary barely plays centre

More realistic would be trading for Morgan frost

3

u/MaterialRecipe9479 14h ago

Im failing to see how “needing” something gets dismissed because of potential cost / availability.

Two things can be true, getting a second center is HARD and Tavares may be hitting his decline. Which a lot of us arent shocked about 

0

u/bootygoon2 13h ago

My point wasn’t that the cost or availability should prevent them from trading for a 2C if it’s needed. More so that acquiring one is not as easy as people are making it out to be, due to the cost being high and there not being much available in the way of 2Cs.

1

u/rdawg1234 13h ago

Very likely it will need to come via internal/draft or FA considering our assets.

But if we’re in the playoff race around deadline they absolutely should be hunting for top 4 d/centre help. You saw a guy like nic Roy go for a late first, gotta consider at least something like that if not a true 2C

1

u/Entire_Business_4498 14h ago

Has anybody found any good piracy streaming sites? It kills me that I got the sportsnet package however for the games this week I need TSN4 (I live out west). We can’t win.

2

u/Nervous-Extent-2714 14h ago

Whoever has one pls reply to me with it too

4

u/Loric76 15h ago

10

u/B-Rayy06 Liljegren 14h ago

I think it's stupid to say "combined" plus minus.

The leafs as a whole have given up 7 goals, saying that a line "combines" to be -7 just makes it sound way worse than it really is. A single goal against causes a line to a "combined" -3.

5

u/Loric76 14h ago

Ya maybe.

My point of posting though was the top half the tweet. Hiller is aware of the issues with the 2nd line and he's ready to do something about it when the time comes, but its not that time yet. He's being patient.

Turns out he's not an idiot like many here have tried to portray him to be over the past few days. The sky isn't falling.

6

u/Training_Show_4600 13h ago

We're still getting "Tavares is cooked we need a 2C" for yhe 3rd or 4th year in a row. puck knowers know, my friend. Nobody ive talked to irl has a problem with Hiller

5

u/rdawg1234 15h ago

Peterson would’ve been a good pick up for 2C, curious if that trade was close it all. He looked pretty engaged again already

2

u/ClixMcNugget95 11h ago

wishing we just pulled trig on this, price was prob absolutely doable and in hindsight come the deadline when we are going to have to pay a premium, sucks that we just didn't pull it off.

-4

u/Loud_Sentence_1481 Kadri 15h ago

I’ve been thinking what about:

Tavares Matthews Marchenko
Roslovic/mkenna Cowan Nylander
Roslovic/mkenna Paul Sissons
Duhaime blueger groux

Marchenko can set up Tavares and Matthews both, and JT can get tips netfront

Mkenna and roslovic swappable

1

u/jimmie9393 11h ago

No to Cowan at Centre

4

u/TheGapInTysonsTeeth 15h ago

Cowan isn't a center

-4

u/Loud_Sentence_1481 Kadri 15h ago

He was drafted as one I think. Or try to develop Mkenna as C

7

u/rdawg1234 15h ago

Rielly-Tanev pairing through 160minutes is a net positive GF53%/positive GF/GA, why has this pairing seen such low minutes together? Tanev defence offsets Riley’s defence. McCabe Rielly didn’t work at all, I’d try McCabe raddysh Rielly tanev

2

u/CMDRShepardN7 Nylander 11h ago

Because McCabe couldn't play is offside, and OEL was better, but still not optimal to play him on his offside.

6

u/shadowpenguin29 16h ago

Hiller hasn’t changed any of the lines in practice today. I don’t mind giving Tavares-McKenna-Nylander and Rielly-Raddysh more time, but there is no excuse for not trying Blankenburg over Stetcher.

5

u/DataDude00 15h ago

I’m fine with giving Blankenburg some ice time but I also don’t want to fall into the same trap of past years where we have all this high priced talent not living up to expectations but blaming everything on the fringe roster guys for not contributing more 

-5

u/BlastingBegins 15h ago

Same powerplay too. He obviously is the stubborn type.

But of course we knew that. His players in LA publicly begged for a different system and he refused. That level of stubbornness for a coach who's never accomplished anything is scary 

11

u/oryes 15h ago

It's been three games. No choices can be stubborn when you've only played three games.

-1

u/BlastingBegins 14h ago

If the Leafs are down 0-3 in a playoff series because half his lines don't work and he refuses to make adjustments then, will you be happy? Ask LA fans how much they liked his stubbornness

3

u/ArthurSnooper 13h ago

1-2 to start the 84 game season is the same as 0-3 in the playoffs so yes

-1

u/BlastingBegins 13h ago

This might be a little advanced for someone like you but 3 equals 3

3

u/breezehome 12h ago

3/7 vs 3/84

looks the same to me

1

u/ArthurSnooper 13h ago

The context is also the exact same

3

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 15h ago

If he scrambles the lines up, the same people would be upset he's too wishy washy and has no plan. He's grasping at straws.

If you want to see issues, you'll find em.

3

u/Weekly_Value_868 15h ago

they also hit 6 posts and Ullmark made a few phenomenal saves on Sat. Hard to say things arent working just yet

4

u/rdawg1234 15h ago

Surprised about that as well, Blankenburg deserves a shot !

1

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 16h ago

I'd really like the training staff to start working with Cowan to develop him into a centre. He's young enough that with some focus on developing those skills, he could make it work. He already has a lot of what is needed to play C effectively (high motor, defensive awareness / PK ability, commitment to back checking, strong battles along the boards etc). It would take some time and a lot of work to prepare him for that but if his growth into a top 6 forward continues, and can be good enough down the middle, there's a solution for replacing JT as he ages out.

With Marchenko and McKenna coming in, the star power on the wings took a big jump. Down the middle is the weakest point for the prospect pool / future. Cowan being molded into a C would help a ton and I think his existing skillset would compliment it well.

1

u/jimmie9393 11h ago

Cowan defensive game is not strong enough for him to be a centre in the NHL. Plus not unlike Nylander it takes away from his strength of flying the zone/ carrying the puck through the neutral zone.

6

u/Soggy_Specific4093 16h ago

To me this is a offseason conversation, where he can work on it though the summer and get all of training camp and preseason to adjust and see if it works. (And hopefully has a long term extension in place so he doesn’t need to worry about a contract year)

I would just let him focus on having a great year playing the wing right now.

1

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 16h ago

Agreed, more so for the future than 2026/27

1

u/Loric76 16h ago

Why mess with Cowan when we can just try Willy at C again lol

3

u/CMDRShepardN7 Nylander 16h ago

I really feel like he can become a Brayden Point type player.

3

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 16h ago

That's exactly what I see too. A honey badger with sick hands and a lot of "Fuck You" in his game. 200 foot complete player, can make it happen on offensive and be a thorn defensively. He's a gamer.

16

u/Loric76 16h ago

This cannot be. I thought everything Leafs was a complete disaster...

3

u/DialedDrawback 15h ago

Going into this year, I was admament that getting their special teams into the top 5 was not only possible, but might be mandatory if they're to make the playoffs.

I'm still confident the PP will sort itself over time and am not surprised they've done this well on the PK.

9

u/Loric76 16h ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/YnmEsq9ICSYQ8

I see we're still freaking out irrationally...check back in tomorrow.

-10

u/Electronic_Rain_6063 16h ago

Hiller’s entire thing his entire way from minors, to being a member of Babcock’s staff, to head coach in LA, was coaching offence though rebounds and perimeter play.

As expected when the hire was made, the Leafs have one high danger shot at 5-on-5 through 3 games.

I understand that he said he wanted to change his style to coach this roster, but I’d also expect my Electrician to take a while to adapt to being my Lawyer.

12

u/refep 16h ago

You think we’ve had 1 high danger shot at 5on5 through 3 games? Bro have you even watched the games lol

15

u/Soggy_Specific4093 16h ago

Not sure where you’re getting that got that statistic from, but if you actually watched the games there is no world where they have only generated one high danger chance at 5v5.

14

u/Generallyspeaking11 16h ago

Idk who told you that or why you believed it but they actually have 21

3

u/postmodern_lasagna 16h ago

I don’t think JT is washed at all, but let’s say a few weeks/months pass and McKenna starts impressing but so is Roslovic. And JT is putting up points but struggling a bit in terms of foot speed. It’s not a foregone conclusion that if Roslovic is not with Matthews, he’s bottom six. We could always try this

McKenna-Matthews-Marchenko
Tavares-Roslovic-Nylander

While Roslovic isn’t known for defense, he’s an upgrade on McKenna for that line. You have a left and right shot C for faceoffs on that second line. So you improve the line for faceoffs and still can use Tavares there. You still have Tavares in a position to win board battles but have a better skater down the middle in Roslovic.

1

u/jimmie9393 11h ago

McKenna is not ready for top line minutes. Top line players play top/shutdown defenseman..Let me remind you all Matthews did not play on the Top line in year 1.

1

u/postmodern_lasagna 11h ago

I agree but if you read what I said, I said “if a few weeks/months pass and McKenna starts impressing”. Top line minutes with PP2 and no PK and being subbed out for d zone draws still would put McKenna at like 15-16 mins a night which is the time he’s already getting. He’d maybe see a minute more at most.

3

u/TheGapInTysonsTeeth 15h ago

Totally fine with this. Ros is over 50% on faceoffs too. 

2

u/New-Bookkeeper-8486 16h ago

I'm not blaming JT for much, but he sticks out like a sore thumb on the power play. Anyone else notice this? 

With how good pp2 looks, i wonder if one of those guys deserves a promotion.

2

u/dicky72 14h ago

JT isnt the issue with the PP IMO.

its still the zone entry....they come flying through the neutral after slinging it back, gain the blue and backhand dump to a stationary JT. he's set up to fail. why they dont carry it deeper, or have the puck carrier do a cut back.... they always lose it on the wall after getting over the blue...and half the time its due to a bad chip to JT. it makes JT look like the one giving it up, but how is he supposed to succeed when he's given the puck that way?

as far as moving him off it.... you need somebody to stand in front of the net or play in middle. you have cannons across the board with willy, matty, march and raddysh....we dont need more guys around the outside to pass or shoot, we need somebody to create havoc in front of the net.

1

u/Cdnraven 9h ago

You’re bang on. People are ragging on JT so hard because he fumbled a few zone entries but that’s not his role on the PP. He got passed the puck in tough spots where maybe Matthews or Nylander could have skated out of but JT isn’t that guy. 

3

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 16h ago

If they were to make a change, Cowan has earned a look on the top unit with how he's playing so far

1

u/Ok_Elevator4215 16h ago

Cowan has earned more ice time, but I think you keep his lines as is and just play the third line more. Mckenna is the guy that needs more PP time, it's his one strength that fully works at the NHL level because it gives him space. Let him get his confidence by doing what he does best.

1

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 15h ago

McKenna could definitely use the moral boost but I prefer the team to be run like a meritocracy, not handing things over. The best performers get the best positions. I think it sends a good message to say "you're on PP unit #2, you're gonna be the top guy out there so go out there do the job well and you get promoted"

1

u/Ok_Elevator4215 15h ago

There isn't enough PP time to earn the #1 spot from the PP2. The only other way would be 5 on 5 play but that 2nd line is a disaster and if we use his play there to argue he shouldn't be on PP1 then Nylander and Tavares should be off of it too.

Reality is he's shown what he can do in the limited sample we have. The sample size will not meaningfully grow because of how much time PP1 gets. At some point you're going to have to take a chance on the uber talented PP specialist or it'll be halfway through the season and we realize Mckenna is having a terrible year with zero confidence.

I'm honestly in the camp that if you weren't comfortable with him playing PP1 where he's literally made to play, he shouldn't have made the team out of camp. I'd much rather see him thrive in college then be tied down to the worst line in hockey and have that used against him when it comes to his PP1 time.

1

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 15h ago

McKenna should be put in a position to succeed for sure, I just want it to come in a way that is organic and not handed to him. For example Cowan has outplayed him a ton so far, what message does it send to him if he gets overlooked for a promotion?

And I get the concerns for line 2 not looking good through the first three games, but holy guacamole saying its the worst line in hockey is a massive overstatement. McKenna-JT-Nylander is worse than Calgary's 4th line? Vancouver's 4th line? The fringe NHLers who can barely compete with replacement level players? We gotta chill with these statements.

1

u/Ok_Elevator4215 15h ago

The organic way was him proving himself at every single level to be an exceptional player and earning the 1st selection. He's not getting enough PP2 time to show what he can do properly, he looked great when he was out there, even Hiller said it.

I'm pretty sure it is statistically the worst line in hockey right now by almost every single relevant metric. And the fact we have to bring up rebuilding teams fourth lines to try and disprove it kind of proves it doesn't it? They've been truly awful whether it's stats or eye test. I'll amend the statement to "the worst top 9 line in hockey" if it makes you feel better. Still not a good look.

2

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 15h ago

Share a link with the stats showing they're the worst line in hockey, if its available. They've been rough, not disagreeing with you there. Just pointing out its a pretty wild jump to go from saying they're underperforming / missing expectations to being worst in the league

Willy also has two goals in 3 games, that's a dynamite start for 95% of the league. There are twelve players in the whole league with more goals than him at this point.

0

u/Ok_Elevator4215 15h ago

Says my comment was removed for a twitter link so here's an article with the link: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2026/10/05/maple-leafs-notebook-oct-5/

3

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 15h ago edited 15h ago

This is what you're referring to I assume?

A 3-game sample size with a rookie playing in his first couple games is not gospel truth. Again, I'm not saying the line is working well, but we gotta chill out a bit. Tavares and Nylander have been steady top 50 league wide players for over a decade. McKenna is literally a child and learning how to play in the NHL.

Using 3 games to conclusively say they're bad is the same as using TLK's half dozen games at the World Championships as proof he is one of the top centres in the game. He nearly led the tournament in goals and had better results than most of the players on Canada's Olympic team, therefore it must be true. Sounds a bit silly to make that statement right?

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Chtholly13 17h ago

Hainsey an idiot if he thinks the ntc are being used the way they were intended

6

u/Svalbard38 Knies 16h ago

Hainsey works for the PA, there’s no chance he’s going to admit that players are weaponizing their NMCs.

10

u/Substantial-Read4372 17h ago

The good news is the Leafs have played well enough to have won all 3 games.

The bad news is we lost 2 of them, and don't play a full 60 mins.

We have a capable team, and I think with more team practice and learning Hiller's system we will do better. Definitely looks like a playoff team to me.

10

u/WolverineCream 17h ago

The team clearly looks better than last year despite Gavin struggling. I think we'll be ok.

6

u/StatGAF 17h ago

Everyone is saying chill out but also like "losing to Ottawa sucks". Especially given they have injuries, and played with 5 D. It would have been nice to beat them and Nashville before going on the road against Colorado, Vegas, and Utah which are juggernauts.

Obviously, its early goings and everything's new but I just remember being told "Hey, the Leafs will figure it out in November, December, January, February, etc" last year too.

You're allowed to say its early but you should be allowed to say "Hey, there are issues"

6

u/oh5canada5eh 17h ago

I think 3 games is just altogether too early to make judgements either way unless there are some insanely good/bad trends. Playing 3 mediocre/good games so far doesn’t say anything, really.

0

u/Ok_Elevator4215 16h ago

Well there is an insanely bad trend on that second line and with Tavares on every unit he's on in general so...

2

u/StatGAF 17h ago

I don't disagree. But plugging your ears, and closing your eyes is the same thing everyone did last year to the "doomers" here for two years running.

8

u/Minimum_One_2195 17h ago

People love calling Tavares washed. I’ve heard it to start the season for probably the past 3 years, and then he picks it up later in the season and ends up with 30 goals and 70+ points. You are not putting those numbers on the 3rd line, and you are not upgrading on those numbers with anybody out there that’s available right now.

He’s 36, so maybe he does take a step back but he’s got 2 points in 3 games and has had chances to put in a couple of goals. I don’t know why Tavares is blamed as THE defensive liability when you have Willy and McKenna on that line turning it over every 2nd possession.

It just baffles me who people will make the scapegoat every season despite Tavares not having 1 bad season since coming to Toronto.

-1

u/Loud_Sentence_1481 Kadri 15h ago

I think they should try him on Matthews wing with Marchenko

3

u/Ok_Elevator4215 16h ago

Your point about him having 2 points in 3 games should tell you exactly why looking at point totals is just not a good way to go about it. Tavares has not been good. You can think he's going to get better, that's fine, but there's just no conceivable way you can watch these games, see him unable to handle a pass or the puck in general, kill every play that touches his stick and say he hasn't been bad to start the year.

And I don't think people are blaming tavares as THE defensive liability. Every issue I see raised with the second line is that all of them suck defensively. That's the whole reason people are upset this line keeps getting played, it obviously doesn't work when they all can't play defence.

Also, just so were clear, although the stat is just really flawed, JT has more giveaways than Nylander and Mckenna. Plus you can watch pretty much every time he receives a pass in transition, he loses possession almost instantly. Tavares is pretty clearly the one contributing most to the changes in possession on the wrong end.

3

u/rdawg1234 16h ago

I trust he can bounce back as speed was never his thing but age is going to be a factor with him going forward.

I don’t trust that Rielly and Willy will all of a sudden improve their defence in their 30s, so when you have all of those guys on the ice together, it’s likely not going to go well defensively, personally I don’t think it works as a net positive.

McKenna just needs more time, not concerned at all about him

3

u/Exact-Appointment510 16h ago

I say it weekly. Over the past 2 seasons, he is 16th for ALL centers in the NHL in Points and 7th in faceoff percentage. He is also not as slow as a people think - above 70th percentile for max skating speed.

I would take that as my second center any day. Is he older? I guess so but he takes good care of himself and doesn't show that he's "washed". All to say that I don't think our 2nd center is a big concern and, unless he ages 10 years in a day, I don't think we need to be concerned about that this season.

1

u/Ok_Elevator4215 16h ago

He looks like he's aged 10 years the day the season started. Hope he gets better but we can't reasonably expect him to be a 2C for much longer without a backup plan.

5

u/StatGAF 17h ago

What baffles me is when people make stuff up about "Tavares being a slow starter".

Tavares is typically a strong starter for his career. He averages 1.17 PPG in October. .9 in November, .81 in December. His worst month tends to be January at .68 PPG before he picks it back up.

Last year, his best month was October. In 2024, he had over a PPG in October. In 2023, he had over a point per game in October.

If anything, Tavares is a strong starter, has a slow middle, but picks it up at the end.

Tavares is 36. Given that Willy and McKenna are on that line, he needs to be the defensively responsible one. He's not being made a scapegoat but that line is being crushed in 3 games.

Its early but you can't close your eyes either and pretend that it doesnt exist.

0

u/oh5canada5eh 17h ago

Maybe the issue is saying that Tavares needs to be the defensively responsible one when you are saddling him with a genuinely bad defensive player in Nylander and a rookie who has been all-offense up to this point in his journey.

If the line is being crushed in their zone it isn’t Tavares’ fault, but the fault of that combination of players. Coaches have to see that and adjust.

1

u/Substantial-Read4372 17h ago

You're not wrong. I think it's frustration that we know he will slow down at some point and we have literally no one within the organization who can fill that role when the decline does happen. He is being monitored closely from our fanbase due to that.

He also whiffed on several chances and has turned the puck over too. Seems, from the eye test, it's been his worst start to the season wearing a leaf jersey.

2

u/WolverineCream 17h ago

He has more giveaways than the other two guys on his line and hasn't looked great, but I agree that it's too early and they'll get better as the season goes on.

15

u/twodogsonebaggie 17h ago

Tyler Hopkins continues to show he took a leap forward this year. Another goal and an assist along with player of the game honours. That makes 4 goals and 5 assists in his first 4 games of the ohl season.

1

u/Cdnraven 5h ago

Bilecki is doing well too

2

u/DialedDrawback 15h ago

Sadly, it won't be long before people start putting him in mock trades for a LHD.

7

u/TheGapInTysonsTeeth 18h ago

Dallas is 0-2, Carolina has 1 more point than us over their first three games.

I wonder if their fanbases are melting down.

1

u/MatthewsStache91 10h ago

I get it but is that a fair comparison those teams have been great for years, one of them won the cup a few months ago.

8

u/TheThoroughCrocodile Kadri 17h ago

Do you think our situation is comparable to the Hurricanes?

3

u/DataDude00 15h ago

I hate when people compare us to teams that have had recent success 

I’m giving this core more rope with all the changes we have made but comparing our concern to the team that just won the cup is a joke 

2

u/keeeeener 17h ago

We were never going to be amazing out of the gate. Basically have 3.5 forwards returning and basically 2 new D (counting Tanev).

Doesn’t help that Marchenko had to play two games without a single practise with the team.

The more interesting thing to look at is I’m not too sure how strong the Atlantic is going to be this year. Montreal, Buffalo and Ottawa not getting any better (I do think Ottawa are actually good though). I really don’t think there’s any teams that are locks. Tampa is probably the best team but their D is ancient. Florida just lost Barkov. Only have one tanking team (sorta), but think the rest are fairly mid.

None of the top 4 teams in the league will be in our division.

6

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 18h ago

I agree with the sentiment that everyone needs to chill tf out and give them at least a dozen games before the pitch forks come out. The team needs time to gel and build chemistry, especially with the turnover this year.

Disagree that we should feel as comfortable as Dallas or Carolina's fanbase. Both are perennial Conference Finalists and the Canes just won the Cup, even at the height of this era's contention the Leafs barely squeaked into the second round, twice. After a dreadful 28th place finish they need to earn back fan trust & faith that they're a good team again.

8

u/Substantial_Mud_357 18h ago

I agree with this take.

But if the Leafs are closer to a bubble team than a top of the division team, we can't afford to leave points on the table at home at the beginning of the year. There isn't really time or opponents to make up the difference later.

It would be better to get some puck luck to get us through this phase of new coach and turnover.

4

u/KinginDaNorf72 18h ago

Nah man, we need to freak the fuck out over the fact that half the new roster doesn't have chemistry yet /s

7

u/jimmylikes11 18h ago

6 posts on saturday, 1 of those goes in we probably win and everyone is different today

0

u/Generallyspeaking11 18h ago

Yea maybe the team that won a cup last year is more patient than a team that finished bottom 5, what a revolutionary thought 

1

u/Hrenklin 18h ago

you mean over a team that hasntmade it past the second round in 20 years

-2

u/Generallyspeaking11 18h ago

Yeah however you want to characterize the teams, it's mind blowingly stupid to believe both fanbases should feel the same way 

5

u/jimmylikes11 18h ago edited 18h ago

getting McKenna was an automatic target on the leafs this year , its hilarious.... ive heard Yukon Yakupov LOL

5

u/Hrenklin 18h ago

being the leafs is an automatic target every year

12

u/whosoulie 18h ago

I feel this iteration of the team is still 2 players short. A number 2C and a top 4 D. 

Addressing those two concerns turn this team from a bubble team to a contender. 

1

u/DialedDrawback 14h ago

There are quite a few bubble teams who could really use a top 4 D and/or a decent 2C. It's not just us.

So if the price wasn't high already, it is moreso now.

Hell, just look at what Utah paid for Trochek. A top 4 D, a red chip centre prospect, and a 3rd rounder.

And a top 4 D? We're looking at COL's 1st, and one of our centre prospects or one of the D prospects we drafted in round 2 last year. That's depending on age and term left on whoever we're acquiring.

0

u/rdawg1234 16h ago

100% top 4 two way d improves this team a lot.

2C with some two way game/speed would give this team incredible depth.

Too bad it will be tough to swing either one.

9

u/shadowpenguin29 18h ago

I think the top 4 D can be sorted out by fiddling with deployment. I think if McCabe and Raddysh are playing more time together at even strength as a minute eating pair (~20-22 mins), with Rielly and Tanev acting as the second pair (18-20 mins), they can be a fairly decent dcore.

The 2C issue just needs to be sorted out by Willy and McKenna building enough chemistry to drive the line. While he’s lost a step, JT is not as bad as his past 3 games, and is perfectly capable of playing with two play driving wingers in a more sheltered role. Actually playing Cowan’s line for more than 14 minutes a night would also help. I still believe that the team has the pieces internally to at least get them to the deadline in a decent spot, then we can evaluate for an upgrade.

1

u/CMDRShepardN7 Nylander 17h ago

I might be crazy, but Rilley hasn't looked bad.

Him and Tanev might work again without Berube.

1

u/rdawg1234 16h ago

Has looked good offensively but still looks the same to me defensively, idk why everyone always just watches for his assists, he never stopped being a creative offensively strong dman, it’s his dzone play that is the negative side. Him and tanev is the only option imo, Rielly/raddysh makes zero sense to me

1

u/CMDRShepardN7 Nylander 16h ago

Of Rielly and Raddysh, for the 3 games played, Rielly has been making the smarter plays with breakouts.

Raddysh hits on the back wall but it never results in getting us possession.

1

u/rdawg1234 16h ago

That’s still offence related, raddysh will adjust but again I just wanna focus on the defence with Rielly, he looks just as bad as ever and it makes him a net negative, but I think some fans can’t grasp that as he still scores a lot of points.

Reduce his minutes and pair him with tanev is the only thing that works, him and raddysh don’t work well together defensively

1

u/CMDRShepardN7 Nylander 15h ago

Breakouts is gaining possession in our zone and clearing it with control. It is not just offense related. It has nothing to do with the points he got.

1

u/rdawg1234 15h ago

I guess sure that’s one factor on defence, he’s also still been on ice for the majority of the goals against. I’ll give it 10-15 games but I think they gotta switch up the pairings

1

u/CMDRShepardN7 Nylander 15h ago

I'm not arguing that Rielly is good at defense. He's never been that. I am seeing that Raddysh, for the last 3 games, has been worse than Rielly in our own zone.

1

u/rdawg1234 15h ago

Yeah but I’ll chalk that up to just him adjusting to a new team, there’s optimism that he can improve as he was a net defensive positive the last couple years analytically.

They don’t work as a pairing together imo. Raddysh was next to defensively responsible JJ moser before, gotta try McCabe or tanev with him

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1

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 17h ago

I really hope he does. I've been very vocal about wanting Rielly gone before, he had a terrible game 1 then made some great plays in games 2 & 3. If he finds his game again, that's huge. Either long term to stick around or to pump his value to make a trade, Rielly playing well again helps both scenarios

3

u/Tarquin11 17h ago

Him and Tanev worked previously, the reason Tanev was taken from Rielly is because McCabe was struggling without Tanev at the time, badly.

1

u/CMDRShepardN7 Nylander 15h ago

It's because McCabe isn't great on his offside and Tanev was the only righty.

McCabe-Raddysh, Rielly-Tanev needs a seious look under Hiller.

1

u/bootygoon2 14h ago

I really don’t get why that wasn’t the go to top pairings from the start. All summer long it was assumed that was what they would roll with and all of a sudden we hear about Rielly-Raddysh and McCabe-Tanev being the top four. I just don’t get it, even if you want to keep McCabe-Tanev as a pair wouldn’t OEL be a better fit beside Raddysh than Rielly is?

3

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 18h ago

With two high end play driving wingers beside him, JT should be able to continue finding success this year. As long as he can win draws (which he's uncharacteristically struggled with so far), be in the right place at the right time - something he's built his career on - and finish the chances they create he'll be able to put up another 60+ point season. He's not a play driver anymore but still can be a strong contributor and finisher from someone else setting him up.

That line has struggled because Gavin is still adjusting to the NHL and Nylander has whiffed on some obvious tap ins. Easily could have 2 or 3 goals if Willy finished those chances, no one is complaining and they probably pick up at least another W in these first 3 games.

2

u/Tarquin11 17h ago

Willy has had some weirdly bad luck considering he has 3 pts in 3 games.

Missed open net tap in, 3 posts, a few miscues. He could easily have 6-7 pts right now.

I think he was even robbed by Dobes a few times in the game he got 2 goals.

1

u/shadowpenguin29 18h ago

Agreed, JT being bad in the dot (after being the best faceoff taker in the league for the last 3 seasons) is a big factor in the possession struggles. The second line is frequently deployed with the Raddysh-Rielly pairing, which further amplifies their defensive deficiencies. Simply having 1 of McCabe or Tanev on the ice would stabilize the ice a lot more (and actually allow 43 and 44 to jump into the rush for offense without worry).

-1

u/Admirable-Bend9989 18h ago

Agreed but unfortunately with knies gone we don’t have the assets to get either

-1

u/jimmylikes11 18h ago

ya Tavares aint the guy anymore

3

u/Substantial_Mud_357 18h ago

I know there is a debate raging here on r/leafs of this team needs time vs they aren't being effective enough or judging players prematurely, but..

Unfortunately, although the season is long, the overtime loss points make it really difficult to make up ground for teams that are behind in the standings. I just don't want this team to get into too big a hole before they start to make a come back.

4

u/reignleafs Knies 18h ago

That's why we have checkpoints in the season to determine how well they're doing. For example:

Oct 31st

American Thanksgivings

End of the calendar year

Personally, if they're .500 by Oct 31st, then I'm not panicking as they're essentially a new team and need time to gel but it's obviously not ideal. If that continues into the next checkpoint, then it's not looking good. The end of the calendar year would probably signal the end of the season as far as playoffs if they maintain only a .500 record imo.

That being said, I don't believe that will happen; I'm optimistic enough to think they will make it. These checkpoints are a great way to approach this season from a level headed POV (not saying you aren't btw)

3

u/j0c1ef25 18h ago

Agree with this take on checkpoints. Also when you look at their schedule by the end of October they will finish off the 2nd of the 3 big Western road trips. Even if they are a couple pts out of a wild card I wouldn't panic either. I think time on the road earlier in the season will benefit this team immensely.

2

u/reignleafs Knies 13h ago edited 13h ago

Yeah good analysis on that too. The bonding of the road trips is a great chance to pull the guys together. If they come out flat after that, then it's gonna be rough. But given that they didn't have this road trip last year until later in the season, I think the schedule change is very much welcome. Especially since the group is fairly new.

As sundin said, these guys gotta play for each other like it's a brotherhood. That's the type of bond that can strap a rocket to this team where the sky's the limit

4

u/Soggy_Specific4093 19h ago

I keep seeing people suggest players the Leafs should trade for who have term left or will want term, but something to keep in mind is that due to tagging rules and signing Marchenko to his extension, we have virtually no future cap space to bring anyone in with term unless we send out players who have term or pull off other cap gymnastics.

It’s also not as simple as just looking at our future cap space to find out how much we really have. PuckPedia put out an article over the weekend that explains the situation very well and why they needed to rework the Marchenko trade to afford his extension.

“The originally agreed-upon trade had to be reworked because the $12.5 million cap hit Marchenko was set to earn next season as part of his new extension would have technically placed the Leafs over next season’s cap.”

“Everyone expects the 2027-28 cap to rise to at least $113.5 million, but that number isn’t official or locked in. Instead, per the CBA, the tagging rule measures future commitments against the current $104 million cap plus the 10% offseason allowance, using the offseason formula. That formula counts qualifying offers for players who could be RFAs next summer and prorates players on two-way deals who moved between the NHL and AHL.”

“So it’s not as simple as checking a team’s 2027-28 cap hits against the expected $113.5 million cap. That gap and the offseason cap formula is where the original deal ran into trouble.”

Article Link

2

u/Parzival091 18h ago

TBF, I think any trade the Leafs make will end up with 1 or both of Rielly and OEL heading elsewhere, whether it's directly involved for whoever they bring in, or a separate trade. That's $11M from next season that also comes off the books. Would imagine Wood/Joshua are also dumped if needed, which is another $4.5M+ (assuming you only count half of Wood's AAV since he's in the AHL).

It's an annoying hurdle to have to clear, but it can be done. (A slightly bigger hurdle is that Brad gave DJ a 10-team NTC...why?!?!? lol)

2

u/smileyduude 17h ago

Not to defend Brad, but he didn't sign the Joshua deal, though he did trade for it.

-4

u/King-Leaf-67 19h ago

I haven't been following the team for a few months but is there a reason why they were in such a rush to move Knies? Did he ask for a trade? Is it because they thought he was damaged goods? He was their best asset, why not move him for a #1 D-man whenever one becomes available?

He looks fine in Columbus, and making that trade right before the season means you need to sacrifice some games for Matthews and Marchenko to find chemistry. On top of McKenna needing to find his game

2

u/Glock_Camera 19h ago

He wasn't damaged goods nor were they in a rush. He was just really our only tradeable asset that had any value.

Even Treliving was trying to trade him and thank god he didn't because the return was way less than Marchenko.

Marchenko is just better. Dude is a pure goalscorer who can drive the line himself. Just look at him playing with Matthews. He looks like a passenger. Whereas Knies last year was way too slow to keep up when he was on the top line.

3

u/dicky72 19h ago

i think you're just thinking about it the wrong way.

you're looking at it from the "why did they want to move knies"

vs the "they wanted to get marchenko, and knies is what cbus wanted back"

it costs a lot to get a player like that...knies was that cost.

2

u/BlastingBegins 19h ago

Teams don't trade #1 defensemen for complementary wingers

1

u/King-Leaf-67 17h ago

How often do #1 D-men get traded?

1

u/keeeeener 17h ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if Knies was talked about with Columbus for Werenski (probably more of a summer thing though). Only issue is that we’d probably have to include ~3 more firsts of value. Which we don’t really have.

Especially when our two best prospects are kinda needed this year (Cowan and Mckenna).

4

u/DialedDrawback 18h ago

It's this. You can bet Chayka was looking pretty aggressivly for a Dman before the Knies trade.

0

u/canuck_at_the_beach 19h ago

You've already got some answers but I'll add that we are trying to compete now while we have mathews and marchenko is the better player now. Maybe not in 2-3 years, but chances are he will be.

0

u/perrieh 19h ago

Leafs management think Marchenko is a better player long-term, so they attached a 2nd round pick to upgrade on Knies. Is it a good or smart trade? Check back in 3 years

Knies for a #1D would have left a hole in the top 6. Could have been done, but it all essentially amounts to the fact that there’s work to be done

3

u/Sirrebral99 Knies 19h ago

Combination of being the highest value trade chip they have with no trade protection, didn't gel particularly well with Matthews for chemistry and some suspected concern for his injury history so early in his career

2

u/King-Leaf-67 17h ago

Makes sense

For the record I don't mind the deal. Knies always seemed more Hyman than an actual star. Someone that can thrive with top line teammates but he can't lead a line as the main option. With Marchenko he clearly has the ability to be a line driver. I like him, and I like the immediate extension.