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The thing that makes OV hard to rank is his longevity. Wasn't ever as dominant as most of the other guys you'd put in the top 10 (which feels mildly absurd to say about a guy who was top goal scorer 9 different times, but we're talking GOATs here) but he was an excellent player for a long time, and a very good one for a long time after that. None of the other greats held the bar as high as he did for as long as he did.
I mean specifically in comparison to other guys you'd put in the top 5 or 10 best players of all time category.
The best ever if all you look at is goals. Obviously. But even the years OV easily won the scoring race, there were other guys playing you could reasonably argue were better overall players or more valuable to their team.
And he never really had that magic ability to single-handedly drag his team to greatness. Everybody else I'd put on a top 10 of all time list did.
I still think OV makes that list because he was so good for so long, but say he'd retired at 35, or kept playing but sucked since then... would you still put him in the top 10? I wouldn't.
That's what I mean about his longevity making him hard to evaluate.
Yeah I would argue that it is the longevity but more that people forget just how dominant he was because he is still around and not playing nearly at that level. He is like the Rolling Stones - still around but not making albums like at their peak.
So OV announced his retirement at the end of the season. I'm curious what people might think about where you put him on the All - Time greatest list. Top 5? Top 10? It's not easy because you have to make a case for who you take out.
He's definitely behind Gretzky, Lemieux and Crosby at a minimum for forwards, and probably debatable with jagr and howe. For D probably just orr is ahead so I'd say he's anywhere from 5th - 8th all time for me, really hard to compare to guys who played so long ago tho
It's two games, and I watched a good chunk of that game. Yeah, Ottawa's a decently coached team and have decent depth at centre.
Boston somewhoe found a way to beat themselves and were 2 seconds away from allowing 2 shorthanded goals on the same fucking powerplay. They absolutely deserved to get their asses kicked tonight with how they played.
I can get behind wings fans being pissed at Larkin
I can get that this NMC thing sucks.
But there is to me no grey area on who is at fault and its not the players lol. There is nothing about NMCs not being able to be used to leverage a trade in the contract. Theyre using the power they have.
Realistically speaking - why isnt Yzerman getting heat for this? no team on larkins list is trading for him because hes not a cost effective upgrade. Like would florida trade barkov for mcdavid? Yes 100%
So save the NMC for a player of that calibre then… not some 2nd liner who will cost more than he’ll improve the team.
So I noticed these Super Pak channels in my Xfinity guide, and it was pretty awesome because it had some OHL and NHL games. I thought it was something I had had the whole time and just didn't notice.... No it's just a free preview and ends today 🫠
I was so stoked yesterday watching games but today I got scared I had fucked up and checked my account for extra charges. Lo and behold too good to be true. Classic Rogers honeydicking.
This is him now. I know everyone says it was Bérubé, it was the injuries, it was because he lost Mitchy but the true stars in this league perform no matter what. He doesn’t seem to have the passion anymore and doesn’t want to get injured so plays way less aggressive. His shot doesn’t seem the same.
He's not sticking around after his current deal expires unless we get past round 1(maybe round 2) this year, and I don't think we're getting past round 1 this year without Matthews being a 90 point player.
I won't fixate on goals since Marchenko has the potential to get Matthews a lot of assists, but my point still stands.
It's pretty interesting that he would choose to leave for them not hitting an expectation that he himself was largely responsible for them not hitting.
That's basically the same as choosing to leave in my view.
Why's it interesting? Matthews can have a good enough season for us not to pin it entirely on him, and they still fall short. Then Auston has to look around and ask if management can add the peices needed to win in the years ahead.
Otherwise, why would he stay? If he really wants to be here, then great. But as good as it is that he wants to be a Leaf, he's supposed to have the competitive fire to want to win more.
Sadly, we have the same shortcomings on the blueline we had 5-6 years ago, and now we have looming issues at centre as JT ages, Bob ages, Tanev ages, and we're 3-4 years away from developing a legit top 6 centre if we're extremely lucky(TLK or Hopkins) without trading assets we will eventually want else where in the lineup(Danford, Cowen, etc.).
Auston may have to come to the conclusion that they won't be able to build a winner around him for another half decade unless they get lucky in free agency.
For all the “we need a 2C” people in this sub I have a question, which 2C is available for a trade? The only guy I could maybe think of is Zacha if Boston is having a down year, and if he was traded it wouldn’t be until near the deadline anyway. Not to mention that there would be a bidding war to acquire him since multiple teams would be looking for ways to improve their centre depth and pickup a top six centre.
EP40 if Van ends up at the bottom of the table, could've been had in the offseason if the price was right I'm sure. Had we given up a couple future picks and some prospects in the offseason we'd be calling Chayka the second coming of BT, but come deadline once EP40 looks like a different player, the cost will be too much.
My point wasn’t that the cost or availability should prevent them from trading for a 2C if it’s needed. More so that acquiring one is not as easy as people are making it out to be, due to the cost being high and there not being much available in the way of 2Cs.
Very likely it will need to come via internal/draft or FA considering our assets.
But if we’re in the playoff race around deadline they absolutely should be hunting for top 4 d/centre help. You saw a guy like nic Roy go for a late first, gotta consider at least something like that if not a true 2C
Has anybody found any good piracy streaming sites? It kills me that I got the sportsnet package however for the games this week I need TSN4 (I live out west). We can’t win.
The leafs as a whole have given up 7 goals, saying that a line "combines" to be -7 just makes it sound way worse than it really is. A single goal against causes a line to a "combined" -3.
My point of posting though was the top half the tweet. Hiller is aware of the issues with the 2nd line and he's ready to do something about it when the time comes, but its not that time yet. He's being patient.
Turns out he's not an idiot like many here have tried to portray him to be over the past few days. The sky isn't falling.
We're still getting "Tavares is cooked we need a 2C" for yhe 3rd or 4th year in a row. puck knowers know, my friend. Nobody ive talked to irl has a problem with Hiller
wishing we just pulled trig on this, price was prob absolutely doable and in hindsight come the deadline when we are going to have to pay a premium, sucks that we just didn't pull it off.
Rielly-Tanev pairing through 160minutes is a net positive GF53%/positive GF/GA, why has this pairing seen such low minutes together? Tanev defence offsets Riley’s defence. McCabe Rielly didn’t work at all, I’d try McCabe raddysh Rielly tanev
Hiller hasn’t changed any of the lines in practice today. I don’t mind giving Tavares-McKenna-Nylander and Rielly-Raddysh more time, but there is no excuse for not trying Blankenburg over Stetcher.
I’m fine with giving Blankenburg some ice time but I also don’t want to fall into the same trap of past years where we have all this high priced talent not living up to expectations but blaming everything on the fringe roster guys for not contributing more
Same powerplay too. He obviously is the stubborn type.
But of course we knew that. His players in LA publicly begged for a different system and he refused. That level of stubbornness for a coach who's never accomplished anything is scary
If the Leafs are down 0-3 in a playoff series because half his lines don't work and he refuses to make adjustments then, will you be happy? Ask LA fans how much they liked his stubbornness
I'd really like the training staff to start working with Cowan to develop him into a centre. He's young enough that with some focus on developing those skills, he could make it work. He already has a lot of what is needed to play C effectively (high motor, defensive awareness / PK ability, commitment to back checking, strong battles along the boards etc). It would take some time and a lot of work to prepare him for that but if his growth into a top 6 forward continues, and can be good enough down the middle, there's a solution for replacing JT as he ages out.
With Marchenko and McKenna coming in, the star power on the wings took a big jump. Down the middle is the weakest point for the prospect pool / future. Cowan being molded into a C would help a ton and I think his existing skillset would compliment it well.
Cowan defensive game is not strong enough for him to be a centre in the NHL. Plus not unlike Nylander it takes away from his strength of flying the zone/ carrying the puck through the neutral zone.
To me this is a offseason conversation, where he can work on it though the summer and get all of training camp and preseason to adjust and see if it works. (And hopefully has a long term extension in place so he doesn’t need to worry about a contract year)
I would just let him focus on having a great year playing the wing right now.
That's exactly what I see too. A honey badger with sick hands and a lot of "Fuck You" in his game. 200 foot complete player, can make it happen on offensive and be a thorn defensively. He's a gamer.
Going into this year, I was admament that getting their special teams into the top 5 was not only possible, but might be mandatory if they're to make the playoffs.
I'm still confident the PP will sort itself over time and am not surprised they've done this well on the PK.
Hiller’s entire thing his entire way from minors, to being a member of Babcock’s staff, to head coach in LA, was coaching offence though rebounds and perimeter play.
As expected when the hire was made, the Leafs have one high danger shot at 5-on-5 through 3 games.
I understand that he said he wanted to change his style to coach this roster, but I’d also expect my Electrician to take a while to adapt to being my Lawyer.
Not sure where you’re getting that got that statistic from, but if you actually watched the games there is no world where they have only generated one high danger chance at 5v5.
I don’t think JT is washed at all, but let’s say a few weeks/months pass and McKenna starts impressing but so is Roslovic. And JT is putting up points but struggling a bit in terms of foot speed. It’s not a foregone conclusion that if Roslovic is not with Matthews, he’s bottom six. We could always try this
While Roslovic isn’t known for defense, he’s an upgrade on McKenna for that line. You have a left and right shot C for faceoffs on that second line. So you improve the line for faceoffs and still can use Tavares there. You still have Tavares in a position to win board battles but have a better skater down the middle in Roslovic.
McKenna is not ready for top line minutes. Top line players play top/shutdown defenseman..Let me remind you all Matthews did not play on the Top line in year 1.
I agree but if you read what I said, I said “if a few weeks/months pass and McKenna starts impressing”. Top line minutes with PP2 and no PK and being subbed out for d zone draws still would put McKenna at like 15-16 mins a night which is the time he’s already getting. He’d maybe see a minute more at most.
its still the zone entry....they come flying through the neutral after slinging it back, gain the blue and backhand dump to a stationary JT. he's set up to fail. why they dont carry it deeper, or have the puck carrier do a cut back.... they always lose it on the wall after getting over the blue...and half the time its due to a bad chip to JT. it makes JT look like the one giving it up, but how is he supposed to succeed when he's given the puck that way?
as far as moving him off it.... you need somebody to stand in front of the net or play in middle. you have cannons across the board with willy, matty, march and raddysh....we dont need more guys around the outside to pass or shoot, we need somebody to create havoc in front of the net.
You’re bang on. People are ragging on JT so hard because he fumbled a few zone entries but that’s not his role on the PP. He got passed the puck in tough spots where maybe Matthews or Nylander could have skated out of but JT isn’t that guy.
Cowan has earned more ice time, but I think you keep his lines as is and just play the third line more. Mckenna is the guy that needs more PP time, it's his one strength that fully works at the NHL level because it gives him space. Let him get his confidence by doing what he does best.
McKenna could definitely use the moral boost but I prefer the team to be run like a meritocracy, not handing things over. The best performers get the best positions. I think it sends a good message to say "you're on PP unit #2, you're gonna be the top guy out there so go out there do the job well and you get promoted"
There isn't enough PP time to earn the #1 spot from the PP2. The only other way would be 5 on 5 play but that 2nd line is a disaster and if we use his play there to argue he shouldn't be on PP1 then Nylander and Tavares should be off of it too.
Reality is he's shown what he can do in the limited sample we have. The sample size will not meaningfully grow because of how much time PP1 gets. At some point you're going to have to take a chance on the uber talented PP specialist or it'll be halfway through the season and we realize Mckenna is having a terrible year with zero confidence.
I'm honestly in the camp that if you weren't comfortable with him playing PP1 where he's literally made to play, he shouldn't have made the team out of camp. I'd much rather see him thrive in college then be tied down to the worst line in hockey and have that used against him when it comes to his PP1 time.
McKenna should be put in a position to succeed for sure, I just want it to come in a way that is organic and not handed to him. For example Cowan has outplayed him a ton so far, what message does it send to him if he gets overlooked for a promotion?
And I get the concerns for line 2 not looking good through the first three games, but holy guacamole saying its the worst line in hockey is a massive overstatement. McKenna-JT-Nylander is worse than Calgary's 4th line? Vancouver's 4th line? The fringe NHLers who can barely compete with replacement level players? We gotta chill with these statements.
The organic way was him proving himself at every single level to be an exceptional player and earning the 1st selection. He's not getting enough PP2 time to show what he can do properly, he looked great when he was out there, even Hiller said it.
I'm pretty sure it is statistically the worst line in hockey right now by almost every single relevant metric. And the fact we have to bring up rebuilding teams fourth lines to try and disprove it kind of proves it doesn't it? They've been truly awful whether it's stats or eye test. I'll amend the statement to "the worst top 9 line in hockey" if it makes you feel better. Still not a good look.
Share a link with the stats showing they're the worst line in hockey, if its available. They've been rough, not disagreeing with you there. Just pointing out its a pretty wild jump to go from saying they're underperforming / missing expectations to being worst in the league
Willy also has two goals in 3 games, that's a dynamite start for 95% of the league. There are twelve players in the whole league with more goals than him at this point.
A 3-game sample size with a rookie playing in his first couple games is not gospel truth. Again, I'm not saying the line is working well, but we gotta chill out a bit. Tavares and Nylander have been steady top 50 league wide players for over a decade. McKenna is literally a child and learning how to play in the NHL.
Using 3 games to conclusively say they're bad is the same as using TLK's half dozen games at the World Championships as proof he is one of the top centres in the game. He nearly led the tournament in goals and had better results than most of the players on Canada's Olympic team, therefore it must be true. Sounds a bit silly to make that statement right?
The good news is the Leafs have played well enough to have won all 3 games.
The bad news is we lost 2 of them, and don't play a full 60 mins.
We have a capable team, and I think with more team practice and learning Hiller's system we will do better. Definitely looks like a playoff team to me.
Everyone is saying chill out but also like "losing to Ottawa sucks". Especially given they have injuries, and played with 5 D. It would have been nice to beat them and Nashville before going on the road against Colorado, Vegas, and Utah which are juggernauts.
Obviously, its early goings and everything's new but I just remember being told "Hey, the Leafs will figure it out in November, December, January, February, etc" last year too.
You're allowed to say its early but you should be allowed to say "Hey, there are issues"
I think 3 games is just altogether too early to make judgements either way unless there are some insanely good/bad trends. Playing 3 mediocre/good games so far doesn’t say anything, really.
People love calling Tavares washed. I’ve heard it to start the season for probably the past 3 years, and then he picks it up later in the season and ends up with 30 goals and 70+ points. You are not putting those numbers on the 3rd line, and you are not upgrading on those numbers with anybody out there that’s available right now.
He’s 36, so maybe he does take a step back but he’s got 2 points in 3 games and has had chances to put in a couple of goals. I don’t know why Tavares is blamed as THE defensive liability when you have Willy and McKenna on that line turning it over every 2nd possession.
It just baffles me who people will make the scapegoat every season despite Tavares not having 1 bad season since coming to Toronto.
Your point about him having 2 points in 3 games should tell you exactly why looking at point totals is just not a good way to go about it. Tavares has not been good. You can think he's going to get better, that's fine, but there's just no conceivable way you can watch these games, see him unable to handle a pass or the puck in general, kill every play that touches his stick and say he hasn't been bad to start the year.
And I don't think people are blaming tavares as THE defensive liability. Every issue I see raised with the second line is that all of them suck defensively. That's the whole reason people are upset this line keeps getting played, it obviously doesn't work when they all can't play defence.
Also, just so were clear, although the stat is just really flawed, JT has more giveaways than Nylander and Mckenna. Plus you can watch pretty much every time he receives a pass in transition, he loses possession almost instantly. Tavares is pretty clearly the one contributing most to the changes in possession on the wrong end.
I trust he can bounce back as speed was never his thing but age is going to be a factor with him going forward.
I don’t trust that Rielly and Willy will all of a sudden improve their defence in their 30s, so when you have all of those guys on the ice together, it’s likely not going to go well defensively, personally I don’t think it works as a net positive.
McKenna just needs more time, not concerned at all about him
I say it weekly. Over the past 2 seasons, he is 16th for ALL centers in the NHL in Points and 7th in faceoff percentage. He is also not as slow as a people think - above 70th percentile for max skating speed.
I would take that as my second center any day. Is he older? I guess so but he takes good care of himself and doesn't show that he's "washed". All to say that I don't think our 2nd center is a big concern and, unless he ages 10 years in a day, I don't think we need to be concerned about that this season.
He looks like he's aged 10 years the day the season started. Hope he gets better but we can't reasonably expect him to be a 2C for much longer without a backup plan.
What baffles me is when people make stuff up about "Tavares being a slow starter".
Tavares is typically a strong starter for his career. He averages 1.17 PPG in October. .9 in November, .81 in December. His worst month tends to be January at .68 PPG before he picks it back up.
Last year, his best month was October. In 2024, he had over a PPG in October. In 2023, he had over a point per game in October.
If anything, Tavares is a strong starter, has a slow middle, but picks it up at the end.
Tavares is 36. Given that Willy and McKenna are on that line, he needs to be the defensively responsible one. He's not being made a scapegoat but that line is being crushed in 3 games.
Its early but you can't close your eyes either and pretend that it doesnt exist.
Maybe the issue is saying that Tavares needs to be the defensively responsible one when you are saddling him with a genuinely bad defensive player in Nylander and a rookie who has been all-offense up to this point in his journey.
If the line is being crushed in their zone it isn’t Tavares’ fault, but the fault of that combination of players. Coaches have to see that and adjust.
You're not wrong. I think it's frustration that we know he will slow down at some point and we have literally no one within the organization who can fill that role when the decline does happen. He is being monitored closely from our fanbase due to that.
He also whiffed on several chances and has turned the puck over too. Seems, from the eye test, it's been his worst start to the season wearing a leaf jersey.
He has more giveaways than the other two guys on his line and hasn't looked great, but I agree that it's too early and they'll get better as the season goes on.
Tyler Hopkins continues to show he took a leap forward this year. Another goal and an assist along with player of the game honours. That makes 4 goals and 5 assists in his first 4 games of the ohl season.
We were never going to be amazing out of the gate. Basically have 3.5 forwards returning and basically 2 new D (counting Tanev).
Doesn’t help that Marchenko had to play two games without a single practise with the team.
The more interesting thing to look at is I’m not too sure how strong the Atlantic is going to be this year. Montreal, Buffalo and Ottawa not getting any better (I do think Ottawa are actually good though). I really don’t think there’s any teams that are locks. Tampa is probably the best team but their D is ancient. Florida just lost Barkov. Only have one tanking team (sorta), but think the rest are fairly mid.
None of the top 4 teams in the league will be in our division.
I agree with the sentiment that everyone needs to chill tf out and give them at least a dozen games before the pitch forks come out. The team needs time to gel and build chemistry, especially with the turnover this year.
Disagree that we should feel as comfortable as Dallas or Carolina's fanbase. Both are perennial Conference Finalists and the Canes just won the Cup, even at the height of this era's contention the Leafs barely squeaked into the second round, twice. After a dreadful 28th place finish they need to earn back fan trust & faith that they're a good team again.
But if the Leafs are closer to a bubble team than a top of the division team, we can't afford to leave points on the table at home at the beginning of the year. There isn't really time or opponents to make up the difference later.
It would be better to get some puck luck to get us through this phase of new coach and turnover.
There are quite a few bubble teams who could really use a top 4 D and/or a decent 2C. It's not just us.
So if the price wasn't high already, it is moreso now.
Hell, just look at what Utah paid for Trochek. A top 4 D, a red chip centre prospect, and a 3rd rounder.
And a top 4 D? We're looking at COL's 1st, and one of our centre prospects or one of the D prospects we drafted in round 2 last year. That's depending on age and term left on whoever we're acquiring.
I think the top 4 D can be sorted out by fiddling with deployment. I think if McCabe and Raddysh are playing more time together at even strength as a minute eating pair (~20-22 mins), with Rielly and Tanev acting as the second pair (18-20 mins), they can be a fairly decent dcore.
The 2C issue just needs to be sorted out by Willy and McKenna building enough chemistry to drive the line. While he’s lost a step, JT is not as bad as his past 3 games, and is perfectly capable of playing with two play driving wingers in a more sheltered role. Actually playing Cowan’s line for more than 14 minutes a night would also help. I still believe that the team has the pieces internally to at least get them to the deadline in a decent spot, then we can evaluate for an upgrade.
Has looked good offensively but still looks the same to me defensively, idk why everyone always just watches for his assists, he never stopped being a creative offensively strong dman, it’s his dzone play that is the negative side. Him and tanev is the only option imo, Rielly/raddysh makes zero sense to me
That’s still offence related, raddysh will adjust but again I just wanna focus on the defence with Rielly, he looks just as bad as ever and it makes him a net negative, but I think some fans can’t grasp that as he still scores a lot of points.
Reduce his minutes and pair him with tanev is the only thing that works, him and raddysh don’t work well together defensively
I guess sure that’s one factor on defence, he’s also still been on ice for the majority of the goals against. I’ll give it 10-15 games but I think they gotta switch up the pairings
I'm not arguing that Rielly is good at defense. He's never been that. I am seeing that Raddysh, for the last 3 games, has been worse than Rielly in our own zone.
Yeah but I’ll chalk that up to just him adjusting to a new team, there’s optimism that he can improve as he was a net defensive positive the last couple years analytically.
They don’t work as a pairing together imo. Raddysh was next to defensively responsible JJ moser before, gotta try McCabe or tanev with him
I really hope he does. I've been very vocal about wanting Rielly gone before, he had a terrible game 1 then made some great plays in games 2 & 3. If he finds his game again, that's huge. Either long term to stick around or to pump his value to make a trade, Rielly playing well again helps both scenarios
I really don’t get why that wasn’t the go to top pairings from the start. All summer long it was assumed that was what they would roll with and all of a sudden we hear about Rielly-Raddysh and McCabe-Tanev being the top four. I just don’t get it, even if you want to keep McCabe-Tanev as a pair wouldn’t OEL be a better fit beside Raddysh than Rielly is?
With two high end play driving wingers beside him, JT should be able to continue finding success this year. As long as he can win draws (which he's uncharacteristically struggled with so far), be in the right place at the right time - something he's built his career on - and finish the chances they create he'll be able to put up another 60+ point season. He's not a play driver anymore but still can be a strong contributor and finisher from someone else setting him up.
That line has struggled because Gavin is still adjusting to the NHL and Nylander has whiffed on some obvious tap ins. Easily could have 2 or 3 goals if Willy finished those chances, no one is complaining and they probably pick up at least another W in these first 3 games.
Agreed, JT being bad in the dot (after being the best faceoff taker in the league for the last 3 seasons) is a big factor in the possession struggles. The second line is frequently deployed with the Raddysh-Rielly pairing, which further amplifies their defensive deficiencies. Simply having 1 of McCabe or Tanev on the ice would stabilize the ice a lot more (and actually allow 43 and 44 to jump into the rush for offense without worry).
I know there is a debate raging here on r/leafs of this team needs time vs they aren't being effective enough or judging players prematurely, but..
Unfortunately, although the season is long, the overtime loss points make it really difficult to make up ground for teams that are behind in the standings. I just don't want this team to get into too big a hole before they start to make a come back.
That's why we have checkpoints in the season to determine how well they're doing. For example:
Oct 31st
American Thanksgivings
End of the calendar year
Personally, if they're .500 by Oct 31st, then I'm not panicking as they're essentially a new team and need time to gel but it's obviously not ideal. If that continues into the next checkpoint, then it's not looking good. The end of the calendar year would probably signal the end of the season as far as playoffs if they maintain only a .500 record imo.
That being said, I don't believe that will happen; I'm optimistic enough to think they will make it. These checkpoints are a great way to approach this season from a level headed POV (not saying you aren't btw)
Agree with this take on checkpoints. Also when you look at their schedule by the end of October they will finish off the 2nd of the 3 big Western road trips. Even if they are a couple pts out of a wild card I wouldn't panic either. I think time on the road earlier in the season will benefit this team immensely.
Yeah good analysis on that too. The bonding of the road trips is a great chance to pull the guys together. If they come out flat after that, then it's gonna be rough. But given that they didn't have this road trip last year until later in the season, I think the schedule change is very much welcome. Especially since the group is fairly new.
As sundin said, these guys gotta play for each other like it's a brotherhood. That's the type of bond that can strap a rocket to this team where the sky's the limit
I keep seeing people suggest players the Leafs should trade for who have term left or will want term, but something to keep in mind is that due to tagging rules and signing Marchenko to his extension, we have virtually no future cap space to bring anyone in with term unless we send out players who have term or pull off other cap gymnastics.
It’s also not as simple as just looking at our future cap space to find out how much we really have. PuckPedia put out an article over the weekend that explains the situation very well and why they needed to rework the Marchenko trade to afford his extension.
“The originally agreed-upon trade had to be reworked because the $12.5 million cap hit Marchenko was set to earn next season as part of his new extension would have technically placed the Leafs over next season’s cap.”
“Everyone expects the 2027-28 cap to rise to at least $113.5 million, but that number isn’t official or locked in. Instead, per the CBA, the tagging rule measures future commitments against the current $104 million cap plus the 10% offseason allowance, using the offseason formula. That formula counts qualifying offers for players who could be RFAs next summer and prorates players on two-way deals who moved between the NHL and AHL.”
“So it’s not as simple as checking a team’s 2027-28 cap hits against the expected $113.5 million cap. That gap and the offseason cap formula is where the original deal ran into trouble.”
TBF, I think any trade the Leafs make will end up with 1 or both of Rielly and OEL heading elsewhere, whether it's directly involved for whoever they bring in, or a separate trade. That's $11M from next season that also comes off the books. Would imagine Wood/Joshua are also dumped if needed, which is another $4.5M+ (assuming you only count half of Wood's AAV since he's in the AHL).
It's an annoying hurdle to have to clear, but it can be done. (A slightly bigger hurdle is that Brad gave DJ a 10-team NTC...why?!?!? lol)
I haven't been following the team for a few months but is there a reason why they were in such a rush to move Knies? Did he ask for a trade? Is it because they thought he was damaged goods? He was their best asset, why not move him for a #1 D-man whenever one becomes available?
He looks fine in Columbus, and making that trade right before the season means you need to sacrifice some games for Matthews and Marchenko to find chemistry. On top of McKenna needing to find his game
He wasn't damaged goods nor were they in a rush. He was just really our only tradeable asset that had any value.
Even Treliving was trying to trade him and thank god he didn't because the return was way less than Marchenko.
Marchenko is just better. Dude is a pure goalscorer who can drive the line himself. Just look at him playing with Matthews. He looks like a passenger. Whereas Knies last year was way too slow to keep up when he was on the top line.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Knies was talked about with Columbus for Werenski (probably more of a summer thing though). Only issue is that we’d probably have to include ~3 more firsts of value. Which we don’t really have.
Especially when our two best prospects are kinda needed this year (Cowan and Mckenna).
You've already got some answers but I'll add that we are trying to compete now while we have mathews and marchenko is the better player now. Maybe not in 2-3 years, but chances are he will be.
Leafs management think Marchenko is a better player long-term, so they attached a 2nd round pick to upgrade on Knies. Is it a good or smart trade? Check back in 3 years
Knies for a #1D would have left a hole in the top 6. Could have been done, but it all essentially amounts to the fact that there’s work to be done
Combination of being the highest value trade chip they have with no trade protection, didn't gel particularly well with Matthews for chemistry and some suspected concern for his injury history so early in his career
For the record I don't mind the deal. Knies always seemed more Hyman than an actual star. Someone that can thrive with top line teammates but he can't lead a line as the main option. With Marchenko he clearly has the ability to be a line driver. I like him, and I like the immediate extension.
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u/BlastingBegins 5h ago
Everyone laments the hole on the team after Marner left but losing Holmberg was even worse