r/vegan • u/Dejawostuff • 11h ago
Question How do you deal with your close ones not converting despite all the information that made you switch?
I have been vegan for around 2 months now and I just can't wrap my head around why people I see as equals - my friends and family, could NOT want to stop supporting all these animal-product companies. I get that a large portion of these products taste good/feel good but isn't morality more important than earthly pleasures? How do you deal with close ones that don't want to convert? I know no vegan irl and it just makes me feel lonely and isolated.
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u/thedancingwireless 11h ago
Well, you've only converted two months ago. How did you feel three months ago?
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u/what_dat_ninja 11h ago edited 8h ago
I always think this is hilarious, people who just became vegan but can't imagine how someone else isn't yet.
Edit: I recognize that calling this 'hilarious' didn't land well with folks here. It was a quick, flippant comment and didn't relay any of the empathy I feel to someone feeling isolated as part of taking a selfless step.
I respect and relate to OP's feelings of alienation - sharing a meal with someone is one of the most bonding experiences that can be experienced between people and cultures.
That said, I think OP's initial post and comments indicate judging his peers harshly for not committing to something that they only recognized recently. The statement about having a hard time understanding how equals can be non-vegan translates to having a hard time seeing as non-vegans as equals - at least to me.
I respect OP for their passionate commitment to veganism, but any long-time vegan will understand the importance of picking their battles and the harm they can do from over-zealousness. I don't want OP to end up feeling more isolated or to harm the image vegans have long tried to dispel of being overly vocal.
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u/DocumentWarm5101 10h ago
They can’t understand why someone else when given all of the information will not come to the only logical conclusion? Stop paying for cruelty to animals? I think that there is nothing funny about this
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u/what_dat_ninja 10h ago
OP suddenly realized meat was animals and now expects everyone around them to convert to. They specifically mention having trouble seeing these people as equals.
Two months ago OP would have been the same as the rest of them and is suddenly holier than thou. I'm a vegan, I want people to be vegan, but judging people for the same behavior you had super recently tends to turn people off from my experience.
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u/m1012_ 2h ago
"suddenly realised meat was animals" is describing vegetarianism. There are many parts of why people go vegan, like the cruelty of the dairy and egg industries, to which you'd be surprised just how many people are living in ignorance about. There are people who think cows always produce milk, and don't need to have calves for this 🤦♀️ There are people who don't know the cycle of what happens to them (the forced impregnation, taking away the babies, on repeat). And so on for other animals. Everyone knows meat = animals. Not everyone knows these horrors. I'm guessing OP didn't, and became vegan when they found out. Now they present other people who are living in ignorance with the same information, and they don't care.
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 11h ago
Why is that hilarious?
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u/what_dat_ninja 11h ago
I find it amusing that someone can go from eating meat to suddenly judging everyone else in their life overnight for the same behavior?
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 11h ago
You’ve missed the point where they were ignorant, and then showed others that same information. That’s a pretty key point here.
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u/what_dat_ninja 11h ago
I mean, from the OP's other comment the revelation was learning that meat is animals. If that's the info OP is showing other people I'm not surprised they have no converts. They're proud that it took them so little to go vegan by learning a basic fact.
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 11h ago
I don’t follow.
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u/what_dat_ninja 11h ago
You say OP was ignorant and has now learned.
The thing OP learned was that meat is animals.
Telling their friends and family meat is animals is probably something they already know.
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 11h ago
The post doesn’t highlight that, but specifically comments on the morality of it. Sounds like they are frustrated that their friends don’t see the issue with the immorality of it. The main post doesn’t address the point you’re bringing up, so I’m curious why you think the post is hilarious.
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u/what_dat_ninja 11h ago
I don't know how many ways to say it, I think someone becoming vegan and immediately turning sanctimonious with their friends and family is funny.
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u/YouFoundMyLuckyCharm 10h ago
Ooohh they just learned meat is made out of animals two months ago, gotcha
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
That's the thing, I didn't think about the animals at all, but the moment someone told me "hey how can you be saying you like animals while eating meat" something just... clicked? Nothing additional necessary while I give my friends real proof that shows how meat farming works and how it impacts the planet. I just feel like I needed much less information to get to the conclusion that I should go vegetarian (and then vegan)
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u/ShayGuer 10h ago
If a climate activist comes and asks you why do you drive your car after you know all the facts about climate change? Why not walk or take public transit
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u/Hermononucleosis 4h ago
1: I do not drive a car and never will.
2: There are a LOT of people who'd be entirely unable to work (which is necessary for buying food and living) if they didn't drive. There are also some people who live in extreme food deserts and can't be vegan, but that is a very rare scenario, so not comparable. I live in a walkable city with good public transit, so I don't drive because it's terrible for the environment.
3: Eating dead animals is inherently immoral. Emitting greenhouse gasses is only bad because we do it at an unsustainable scale. Sure, over a trillion animals are murdered for meat each year, but even if it were just a single one, that would still be murder, and that would still be evil. If we managed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to a sustainable point there would no longer be anything wrong with the remaining emissions. So there's no reason to rag on people who would be out of a source of income without a car.
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u/ShayGuer 4h ago
I was talking to OP on his argument of why people won’t consider facts. I ride a bicycle as much as possible
I would recommend other people do the same including OP for the environment and climate change via animals habitat protections.10
u/Borkato vegan 11h ago
This is exactly me. People LOVE shouting that “you were once nonvegan too 🙄 🙄 🙄 “ as if it’s a gotcha but I never actually knew the facts about the industries and the SAME SECOND I learned, I switched.
So why can’t they?
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u/Valcerys 8h ago
Because unfortunately, people aren't a monolith, they all experience life in their own way, what moves you may not move someone else. If i see someone crying, it makes me want to cry, when my friend sees someone crying she looks away because it bothers her.
Everyone is different.
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u/inspectre-gadget 10h ago
I completely get the frustration. But I understand the instinct to shut down, to a point. Even if you didn't know the facts of the industry, the majority of people here grew up taking for granted the fact that the food on their plates were once living beings. That's not really something anyone can claim ignorance to. Beef used to be a cow, pork used to be a pig, etc. A lot of people simply extend this cognitive dissonance to factory farming. You can show someone footage of children dying in Gaza, and they might feel bad, but many people won't think twice about going to pick up a Happy Meal right after.
I just save my efforts for people who want to listen, or even those who are generally open-minded.
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u/Adventurous-Web-412 11h ago
because they might not care, they might be solid in their morals already, they might not find the type of activism remotely engaging, or who knows they might just dislike veganism. Its not complicated why they may not or may never switch.
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u/Borkato vegan 11h ago
That doesn’t answer the problem OP mentioned.
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u/Adventurous-Web-412 11h ago
How doesn't it. Those are some of the many reasons why someone will not be convinced by a vegan argument.
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u/Interesting_Deer4062 9h ago
it's really just those people lack empathy or want to have selectuve empathy. it's gross.
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u/Adventurous-Web-412 9h ago
So to clarify, the only people who have genuine empathy are vegans? You can't comprehend that someone may not think you need to expand empathy to an animal in the first place?
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u/spirit-animal-snoopy 10h ago
Nobody can argue, berate or dictate on other peoples' food choices. Good intentions do not give anyone the right to try to control what others eat.
Accept that important fact , be intentional about where your focus goes, priority is helping real animals in real life, not making other peoples' choices your business.
Personal food choice is a small part of veganism.
From a lifelong vegan , 56 years. I would have gone totally insane 40 years ago if I let my ego obsess on what anyone else ate ....newsflash, no hope of coming across another vegan or even a vegetarian then. We are a tiny minority and no permanent vegan was ever coerced or dictated into it. A few very temporary, uncommitted ones , at best, because they were easier to bully , lecture or dramatise into it, but only for a short time. Because free will is the only motivator for lasting ,authentic change.
There is no justification to try to control or change others.
The ethical minority will find their own way to better choices, maybe next week, maybe in ten years. The rest never will. That is the reality. It's nothing to do with you, or anyone else.
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u/Interesting_Deer4062 9h ago
it's not simply a "personal food choice" when youre exploiting and killing other animals
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u/spirit-animal-snoopy 8h ago
It is not a worthwile use of my energy to try to reason with unreasonable people. You are trying to dictate to a near lifelong vegan of 56 years, who has dedicated their life to veterinary medicine. I have directly saved more lives than you can even imagine.
But I still don't have the right to try to control anyone else. Nobody does. Grow up.
Ranting online does absolutely less than nothing to prevent said exploitation and killing of other animals
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u/chaconia-lignumvitae vegan 10+ years 11h ago
I saw a PETA video that told me to go vegan in 2005. From that day, it took me 11 years to be vegan. Some of us need time for it to stick. Ive been vegan 12 years now and it just sticks now
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u/Borkato vegan 11h ago
I understand that cases like yours exist, I’m saying I don’t understand why.
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u/chaconia-lignumvitae vegan 10+ years 11h ago
it could be for various reasons. Here’s my story if you’re curious:
It’s like when you hear that 645 million humans go hungry every day. It’s such a big number you kinda get numb to it. You do some things to help but you know you can’t help everyone. And your actions, you might see yourself as a meaningless vague small number in such a huge pool of humans that couldn’t make a difference even if you tried. That’s how I felt in middle school being exposed to that PETA video. I was angry (and an emotional pre-teen) and I even did my impromptu protest at a nearby McDonald’s. But what really discouraged me was people saying to me that I wouldn’t make a difference, and I’m doing something that made others uncomfortable and that I was starving myself (I was afraid of eating anything and I was misinformed on what vegan food was) and I couldn’t be healthy being vegan. I just wasn’t mature enough to stand on my own two feet. Good thing I started standing on my own two feet in my adulthood.
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u/Borkato vegan 10h ago
To me that’s really, really different than the usual people who just straight up lie. You’ve always wanted to go vegan, you just didn’t know how or feel supported enough to. That’s not the same thing, and if you had a vegan family member you likely would have went vegan on the spot.
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u/chaconia-lignumvitae vegan 10+ years 10h ago
I think for many people they are numb to it and they don’t have the right supports either. There are people who just don’t care about nonhuman animals but I think the number of those people are smaller in comparison to people who know about the cruelty and feel “stuck”
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u/Borkato vegan 10h ago
Hmm. I think I more meant those that are unreachable or who literally just laugh at you for even mentioning it.
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u/chaconia-lignumvitae vegan 10+ years 10h ago
ohh. I get you now. Yea, I don’t get those people either. 😓
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u/spirit-animal-snoopy 10h ago
You don't have to understand why. You only have to accept it once, then be intentional about where your focus and intention goes. ie on real life animal welfare, and your own personal choices of behaviour.
Simple as that.
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u/whistling-wonderer 2h ago
People grow up being taught different things and having different experiences that then cause them to compartmentalize information in different ways.
I had a job on a farm at 14 and part of it was killing and butchering chickens. I’m not going to pretend that didn’t fuck me up mentally/emotionally in all kinds of ways. I compartmentalized the hell out of it the same way I compartmentalized being queer to cope with being raised Mormon. It took me years to unravel it all. Now I’m exactly the queer, vegan exmo my parents raised me not to be lol but it was a long road.
Actually Mormonism is a good comparison. Some people leave overnight and for some people it’s a slow fading over years. Some people leave due to the sexism and racism etc and other people leave due to financial abuse, and so on. When you are talking about religion or about something as intimate as what people eat, any big changes are not going to be primarily due to facts and logic, although that is cool that it happened that way for you. They’re usually emotional, and people have plenty of ways (conscious or not) of barricading themselves from difficult emotions.
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u/HappyCatPerson 11h ago
I was wondering the same thing about the suddenly holier than thou mindset.
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u/ShoulderGreedy3262 11h ago
you just live with it. i dont know a single vegan. at the end of the day, thats the way the world is. you can either live with it, or isolate yourself and never speak to your friends and family ever again. those are the only real choices here
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u/IcerHardlyKnower 8h ago
Technically I don't know vegans either but some are vegetarians so we just have tofu/seitan without much gripes
Are there any hobbies ur into I actually happened to have met a decade long vegan at a running club !
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u/Adventurous-Web-412 6h ago
its something that you need to really go out and look for but its not impossible. I guess depends a little where they are from too, some countries I would think its extraordinarily difficult to find people.
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u/IcerHardlyKnower 6h ago
100% is unheard of in my birth country lol really thought of a wypipo thing
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
I guess you are right, it's sad but it's nice knowing that there are others on this planet that share my viewpoint
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u/rouleroule 11h ago edited 11h ago
I became vegetarian in my early twenties and vegan only about ten years later. Looking at how long it took I don't feel I can judge people that much.
Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that it's wrong to eat meat and that they should stop. But we have to remember that no one is born vegan. We should not judge them more severly than we judge our past selves. And we should remember that we too (at least me) took some time to become vegan.
But I understand your feel too. It is frustrating.
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u/Adventurous-Web-412 11h ago
isn't morality more important than earthly pleasures?
They don't share your morality, so they likely are believing their own morals or don't really care, one of the two. The reality is they might not convert, and you shouldn't worry yourself if you do or not because all it will do is make you annoyed if you can't.
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
Yeah I try not to think abt it but it's still just a little thought at the back of my mind
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u/Ok_Avocado3127 11h ago
I don’t get it either. I try to ignore it for the most part, for my own wellbeing. Most of my close friends are vegan though, so luckily, I don’t feel alone
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u/dyingtermite vegan newbie 11h ago
I just remind myself of the cognitive dissonance that I experienced for years.
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u/aMaiev 10h ago
Criticizing someone for a mistake you JUST stopped after probably decades, how does it feel to be that much of a hypocrite lol
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u/m1012_ 2h ago
OP was clearly living in ignorance about the horrors of the animal product industries, and turned vegan when they found out. The people around them were also living in ignorance until OP showed them said horrors, and they don't care enough to change their ways. This is the difference. Knowledge is power
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u/eastercat vegan 20+ years 11h ago
I knew about the info for years, but it still took me time to get over myself and my ego
Cognitive dissonance can justify anything. Think about all those people who are cool with someone that rapes children
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u/CaseyVeganAF 11h ago
People close to you are the hardest to change unfortunately... It really sucks but you have to understand that you can't make anyone change, just offer the information and thats it. Arguing will just drive them away. Remember you haven't always been vegan. Think about it this way, if you drive them away then you can no longer influence them. Overtime they will see that you are thriving and you can take opportunities to offer them delicious meals made vegan. Slip in information here and there. The meals your family members love, show them you can make them vegan. Also try to find vegans you can hangout with, look for vegan FB groups. See if there are any animal rights activism like Anonymous for the Voiceless around. Go to cubeoftruth website to look for a local chapte near you. At a minimum at least try to make vegan friends though social media, ones you can chat with, rant, ask questions ext. Good luck!
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
Thanks for the long message, all of this makes sense. I did try to argue at first but I have already learned that arguing sadly won't convert anyone.
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u/Practical_Tooth3785 vegan 11h ago
Continue to share vegan meals with them. Invite them to a visit day or to volunteer at a farm animal sanctuary. Give them grace because it’s so engrained in my most people’s upbringings. But keep sharing the positives of veganism like connecting with the actual animals and good food !
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u/Witch-of-1692 11h ago
The minute the word “vegan” comes up, people accuse you of “pushing it onto them.” People call vegan food “disgusting” all the time. We are literally a meme to non-vegans. Non-vegans would never let us make them vegan food, take them to a sanctuary, et cetera. “Abolish zoos” is somehow a radical position.
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u/Practical_Tooth3785 vegan 11h ago
I bring vegan cupcakes for each of my coworkers birthdays! They always eat them and say they are good. They know I’m a vegan cause I don’t eat their stuff. Idk if they ever connect what they are eating is vegan but eventually I’ll tell them lol
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u/bertram_ 10h ago
The OP literally mentions word ‘converting’ in his post. Religious fanatics try to do the same, that’s why meat-eaters don’t like it and call it pushing on them.
You do you, eat whatever you like, support whatever you like, but that doesn’t make you better than people who are different. If you can’t accept other people’s choices, then just don’t be around them.
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u/Practical_Tooth3785 vegan 10h ago
No that’s exactly what we don’t think we are….. BETTER THAN ANYONE, that means anyone. We don’t think we are deserving of another’s body parts. It is the meat eaters that think they are better. Please get out of this sub.
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u/bertram_ 10h ago
I’m sorry but the OP has been vegan only for three months and already wants their close people to become similar to him. Other people’s choices need to be respected.
My close friend is vegan and we coexist without any issues. Only thing is that I eat vegan meals at her place and I prepare vegan options for her when I host parties or hangouts at mine.
I’ll get out of this sub, sure, don’t know why it’s being recommended to me because this is a crazy echo chamber. If OP cares about their close people, pushing their philosophy on them might end negatively.
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u/Street-Guava-3694 10h ago edited 10h ago
The reason you can't wrap your head around it is probably that you're lacking a bit of cognitive empathy. You understand your own reasoning and your own moral framework, but you seem unable to grasp that other people can genuinely reason, feel, and prioritize differently from you.
Your morals are your morals. Other people don't have to share them, even when they have access to the exact same information. The fact that something feels morally obvious to you doesn't make it objectively obvious to everyone else. There's really no mystery here. You're assuming that because you reached a particular moral conclusion, anyone who understands the same facts should necessarily reach it too. That's simply not how people work.
Facts about the earth exist, people are still Christian. Facts about frying pans exist, people still use teflon products. Facts about the health consequences of smoking exist, people still smoke. Facts about climate change exist, people still fly halfway around the world for a two-week holiday. Facts do not come with an automatic behavioural command attached. Humans aren't machines. You can't install information into them and expect their values, priorities and behaviour to update accordingly.
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u/glitter_bagel 8h ago
This is so so hard, but you have to be supportive of them. The vegan stereotype is much liek the Christian stereotype where you try converting everyone you meet. Nobody likes that kind of vegan. It’s hard to face and come to terms with, but if they say no several times you just have to accept it. You can’t always change people but I encourage you to try finding vegan friends! Vegan coffee shops or restaurants are a great place to start.
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u/LesbianKitty4eva 11h ago
"converting" sounds too cult-ish, nope my person. I don't mind others doing what they wanna do cos I cannot force people, we are a minority. I still love my friends and family nonetheless. I enjoy earthly pleasures, just not the ones a lot of people do.
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
My bad I just couldn't find a more appropriate word, you do know what I mean though
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u/LesbianKitty4eva 10h ago
I know, but language matters, if we want to make veganism look more appealling we must be mindful of how we phrase things. :)
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u/raptorgrin 11h ago
You have to remember that people are allowed to make choices that are different from the ones you would make. Everyone is at a different spot in their journey.
Compare your desire to convert people to evangelical missionaries and manifest destiny, and how trying to force people to join you has downsides.
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
Convert was the wrong word, true. I'm not trying to force people into anything, just make them reconsider their choices with logical arguments, yet it feels like the people I hold onto the most just... Don't care at the end of the day? After thinking about meat one day I decided to just... Stop. I just expected my close ones to see it the way I saw it and stop eating animal products as well
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u/ihateclichestoo 5h ago
They are on their paths and you are on yours. They have to first be open to the idea on their own, then maybe they will observe how you are doing with it. They have to make their own decisions and take their own paths in life, but they can choose or not choose to be influenced by your path and success (not sure if right word...) or not with it. I have honestly felt the pain and sadness once when I ate a steak. Never again did I eat one.
Also, I ended up with alpha-gal syndrome and you'd be amazed/disgusted at just how many products contain animal derivatives. Water, sugar, toilet paper, medications, soaps. Having an allergic reaction to water and tp was not expected. Oh, the pain. Anaphylaxis to fabric softener... Ugh. And it can be due to others wearing those clothes, not even mine.
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u/Borkato vegan 11h ago
I think there’s a MASSIVE difference between “do this so that you can be rewarded in the afterlife with 0 proof” and “here’s demonstrable proof that what you’re doing actually hurts REAL beings you can LITERALLY see and take pictures and video of”, but that’s just me
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u/Adventurous-Web-412 11h ago
What is it? Those aren't differences of the proselytising, its a moral and epistemic difference. You can argue that you are correct nonetheless to proselytise, that its worth it, but that doesn't make it functionally different. One isn't thinking any different than the evangelical missionary, they think "what I believe is moral and true and the world must believe this too" and a vegan thinks identically, there are greater concrete empirical facts within veganism (animal sentience or their capacity to suffer), but the actual moral argument is still a question of if its true.
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u/Street-Guava-3694 10h ago
Why are you on Reddit right now? Are you using a smartphone or computer? There is real, demonstrable evidence that the technology you're using causes harm to real beings and ecosystems. Your device required mining metals and minerals, consumes enormous amounts of energy, and will eventually become e-waste, much of which ends up polluting soil and water.
The fact that there is demonstrable evidence that X causes harm doesn't automatically tell you what you're morally supposed to do about it. You already accept this principle in practice, you just draw the line somewhere else.
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u/Borkato vegan 9h ago
Your argument is essentially “nobody can avoid all harm, therefore we shouldn’t criticize any avoidable harms,” and that’s simply not sound. By that logic, because everyone causes some harm, nobody can have any obligation to reduce the harm they cause.
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u/Street-Guava-3694 9h ago
No. That's not my argument. I specifically wrote: “The fact that there is demonstrable evidence that X causes harm doesn’t automatically tell you what you’re morally supposed to do about it.”
You can't just reconstruct my argument however you see fit, and then attack the version you just created. That's silly.
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u/Quautistic 11h ago
I was typing something along these lines. Don't need to now, you made the point perfectly.
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u/Salty-Eye-5712 vegan 5+ years 11h ago
Humans are not a monolith. We are all individuals with our own experiences and opinions. Just because something moves you doesn’t mean it would move them and vice versa. As much as I agree with veganism, it’s extremely self righteous to think my agreement with it is enough for everyone else to convert also…
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u/I_Amuse_Me_123 vegan 9+ years 10h ago
You just have to get used to it. Think of your loved ones just as you were before you were vegan: you were not a horrible person then, and it probably took a long time for you to come round.
And focus your efforts elsewhere. You get to lead by example for friends and family in a way that really doesn't require a lot of direct advocacy. Just seeing you succeed and thrive as a vegan is very strong.
There is no real difference (as far as activism and benefit to animals goes) between me being the inspiration for a family member or friend to become vegan, and me being the inspiration for a stranger to become vegan; besides my own convenience. So, although I have tons of good arguments for veganism, I keep them to myself when I am in person unless I'm asked. Calling people out and crushing them in a debate is better online.
Given time, even if your family and friends don't become vegan, you are still going to affect everyone around you with your choices. The numbers of times I attend an event where some/many dishes are vegan solely because of me, but other people end up enjoying them, is huge. I bring people to vegan restaurants all the time. I compete (and win!) in cooking contests that have introduced tons of people to good vegan food.
I could go on and on with examples, but in essence: we already know you are willing to be inconvenienced for what is right, because you chose to be vegan. The indifference of friends and family is a further inconvenience we all have to endure. But it's still worth it, and you have far more influence than you realize.
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u/Ur-Origin vegan 4+ years 4h ago
Your individual consciousness isn't universally shared. Think back to before you made the switch, and if you viewed it as obvious or not to eat animal products. Think about all the times in life you turned out to be wrong, and how you look back at your life and ask yourself how you could have been so BLIND. This is what they are, blind to the truth. It is sadly part of the human experience, in order to avoid getting super pessimistic it helps to consider your own flaws, and the fact that in the future you will look back at your life and question the decisions you are making RIGHT NOW.
(Well, not everyone will regret things, but if you are a decent person you will regret and most importantly try to change).
An example that comes to mind is that... in the future the world surely will look back at this moment in time and view something as simple as taking your car to work as a moral violation, considering the state of the environment in 100 and especially 200 years from now will be much worse due to global warming etc. They will wonder why the vast majority of the population didn't protest to change the econimic system and how we could let the powerful and wealthy take the human species to the brink of extinction. But this is not how most people approach environmental issues today - certainly not in practice.
Anyway, just to to be clear you are obviously making the right choice being vegan, while your friends are making the wrong choice. Animal liberation must be achieved, it is as you know morally imperative. I just bring this other stuff up to help you feel empathy for your friends and family, and to help you not feel so isolated. I hope my friends are trying - what more can I ask of them? But I don't live their lives, and I don't know what shapes their lives.
I think it's healthier to focus on what you can do (including how you can inform others to make better decisions), rather than things that is outside of your moral responsibility. It feels though to know my friends and family make these horrible choices that hurt animals, but it also feels though to know that in the future I will realize some fucked up thing I am doing today, and I want to be able forgive myself for it then. And I want to be able to forgive my friends for the same reason.
Again, you are obviously still right to strongly believe in animal liberation.
Also, finding vegan friends probably helps too. To make things feel a little less insane.
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u/healthyfun137 vegan 8h ago
this is a basic life skill. Accepting others where they are on their path. You are 2 months in, so you just figured it out yourself. There will be so many things in our lives that we see differently from the people closest to us. Would you want someone in your life to try to change you so they could feel more comfortable? Maybe you can channel your passion for this lifestyle into supporting others who already want to get started? Vegan meetups, book clubs, outings, cooking demos, friend groups supporting animal welfare??? I bet you are creative and bright - bring this awesome energy where it will really help!
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u/__Magali__ friends not food 11h ago
Hello OP ! Just know that this subreddit is infested by non-vegan people. Please, do not take into account what they're saying.
I'm writing another comment to give you some support.
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u/takingabreaknow 11h ago
Veganism isnt a religion, so no conversion is required. But if they chose to continually and knowingly to financially support the exploitation of animals in inhumane conditions thats on them
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u/saltnvinegarwazere 10h ago
Mate, the word convert isn't only used in a religious context, converting to veganism is a correct use of the word
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 11h ago
Crazy to see all non-vegans responding so far. Wild.
Remember that people want to think that they’re good people, so anything you provide to them that challenges that view will often be rejected. Additionally, people often do not think that they could be wrong, and so the walls go up to protect themselves. Very normal human response.
If you can figure out how to fix it, you let me know.
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u/Borkato vegan 6h ago
This whole thread is honestly fucking insane, I feel like I’m in r/vegetarian
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
I heard about this a lot, and it does make a lot of sense. Just... wish we weren't built like this 😭
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 11h ago
Yeah. Horrible lol. It’s my unifying theory of why the world continues to get worse.
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u/Fantastic_Ad7023 11h ago
Realise they are individuals and able to make their own decisions just like you made yours
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u/My_life_for_Nerzhul vegan 11h ago
This post has nothing to do with whether others can make their own decisions. It’s about why other people choose to make horrible, immoral decisions despite having the information and the ability to choose otherwise.
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u/Fantastic_Ad7023 11h ago
They are asking how you deal with it so accepting that others will make their own decisions is the only way to, we can’t control other people unfortunately
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u/Habno1 10h ago
your comment makes total sense, don’t know why you’re being downvoted
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u/Fantastic_Ad7023 10h ago
Yeah people are going to struggle in life if they can’t accept that they can’t control other people. Like yeah you can put forward your views and present information but ultimately they have to choose things for themselves
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u/Habno1 9h ago
I feel like they’re just adults that haven’t grown up yet lol
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u/My_life_for_Nerzhul vegan 8h ago
People who feel invested in opposing an injustice, feel frustrated to see others perpetuating said injustice. Why is that surprising?
I feel like they’re just adults that haven’t grown up yet lol
Would you say the same in the context of any other atrocity, injustice and oppression?
Had the human slavery abolitionists frustrated by others choosing to perpetuate human slavery, just "not grown up yet"?
Had the anti-fascists frustrated by others choosing to the Holocaust, just "not grown up yet"?
Had the civil rights activists frustrated by others choosing to perpetuate segregation just "not grown up yet"?
Had the women's rights activists frustrated by others choosing to perpetuate women's subjugation, just "not grown up yet"?
As vegans, I think it's important we don't minimize how our fellow vegans feel. Should they not be able to freely express themselves in a place that is supposed to be a safe space (like r/vegan)? Wouldn't you agree?
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u/My_life_for_Nerzhul vegan 8h ago
Of course, we can't control other people and I'm fairly certain even the OP recognizes that. But from the post, it seems they're seeking more productive responses than simply "accepting others make their own decisions". Well, of course they do. But what are some things a (new) vegan could choose to do that helps them with accepting that? I think that's after what the OP truly is.
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u/SarnacOfFrogLake 10h ago
I volunteer at farms, animal sanctuaries and run a rescue.
I still eat meat
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u/LilPoutinePat 11h ago
"I quit cigarettes and no one else will quit them :("
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 11h ago
Pretty bad analogy. It’s more like “I learned that cigarettes kill and torture other people and no one else will quit them”
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u/Borkato vegan 11h ago
Cigarettes don’t inherently kill a living, breathing being who had no choice.
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u/raptorgrin 11h ago
I mean, secondhand and thirdhand smoke are bad for every creature breathing nearby.
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u/atellanSepulcher 10h ago edited 8h ago
It's exhausting. I asked my parents not to talk religion or politics anymore. They went through the "special period" in Cuba where meat was rarely available to regular proles, would argue how plants don't have complete protein. I told them it's possible to get all amino acids from plants with enough variety. Then B12, oh supplements are "cheating"? Heme iron, I did my research but it never ends. Plus my dad is a doctor. I'm too exhausted to tell them animals are supplemented with B12 as well, plus my brother is an asshole and calls me brainwashed and "deja la mariconaria" basically "stop being gay". Yeah I am kind of queer but I'm never admitting it to these people. I'm just low contact with him now. Prick.
When we go to the supermarket i only pick vegan things and sometimes they'll eat some of it. But I still eat meat since I live with my parents again and the arguments are too much for me. I guess I have no spine. Sometimes I'll only eat one piece and my mom goes WHY DIDNT YOU EAT THE MEAT YOU NEED PROTEIN and I'll just walk away and lock the door to my room. When I lived 30 minutes away and went from vegetarian to vegan she'd constantly ask if I "ate protein" and she'd bring me meat. And not once did I give it away or bring it back.
Bit of learned helplessness. Won't take "no" for an answer, and I rationalized it with the bs "it's already dead" argument. I should have driven to their house, put it in their freezer and left while they're away and stayed low contact. I guess I'd rather save 40% of my income and avoid arguments than not eat corpses.
There's an event I was going to every year that I'm not going to now because food is complementary and it's not vegan. But maybe there's vegan events nearby.
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u/toddatog 10h ago
Being vegan is only a part of most vegans lives. So many vegans I’ve met have not gotten the rest of their respective houses in order when it comes to the topic of so called “morality”. Many of them have a holier than though attitude but are so ignorant when it comes to other philosophic topics concerning morality.
Unless you’re wanting to be an activist, or it’s a life or death situation, I’d say just focus on being the best person you can be and not worry too much about what other people are doing with their lives. It will save you a lot of grief.
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u/spirit-animal-snoopy 10h ago
I have never willingly consumed animal products my whole 56 years. I do not know one other vegan. And it's ok.
Brand new , especially young, vegans can be very evangelical about others doing the exact things they themselves did all their lives, until a very short time ago.
Veganism is your choice. Great. Welcome. But nobody, vegans included, get to control what anybody else eats.
Boundaries are for the self. They end where other peoples' personal boundaries begin.
New crusader vegans are why all vegans get a bad name.
You are doing the best you can. That's all you can do. Remove all thoughts about other peoples' personal choices. You will drive yourself completely insane thinking you can try to change the world, or even a single person. Imagine it, obsessing about other peoples choices for the next 50 years . That is not the point of veganism.
Ethical people will make better choices , it could be next week or it could be in 10 years. That's their business, and nothing to do with you or anyone else.
I will say, I have always loved animals far more than humans. The cruelty and ignorance of humans would have consumed me 40 years ago, had I let it. But my torment about their food choices does absolutely nothing to help animals. It is totally wasted energy that is much better spent on helping animals in real life. Diet is only part of it.
Control of others, even when the obvious path they 'should' choose is clear, is from the ego. Tame the ego, lose the need to try to control others.
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u/fuck-them-hoes vegan 10+ years 11h ago
Mutual respect
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u/My_life_for_Nerzhul vegan 11h ago
How does one choose to respect someone who inflicts needless cruelty, exploitation, suffering and death on other individuals when they can reasonably choose \*not* to do so?
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u/fuck-them-hoes vegan 10+ years 11h ago
How long have you been vegan?
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u/My_life_for_Nerzhul vegan 10h ago
Why do you perceive that to be relevant to this discussion?
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u/fuck-them-hoes vegan 10+ years 10h ago
Because you should think back to the time before you were vegan. How would you like to be treated? Treat people how you would want to be treated.
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u/My_life_for_Nerzhul vegan 10h ago
I have never shied away from being at the receiving end of judgement, nor from constructive criticism. How else are we supposed to improve? Humans are capable of being rational. Should we not exercise that ability?
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u/fuck-them-hoes vegan 10+ years 10h ago
You can criticize while being respectful. All I said was mutual respect…
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u/My_life_for_Nerzhul vegan 10h ago
I don't disagree here, actually, but this has always been tricky. Would we say the same in the context of any other atrocity, injustice and/or oppression? That we should have "mutual respect" for those perpetuating any of those?
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u/HaywoodJablome69 11h ago
You accept it
Everyone has the right to choose
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u/__Magali__ friends not food 11h ago
"Everyone has the right to kill."
Some choices have consequences on other beings. Saying that it's just a matter of choice completely invisibilises the suffering created by the actions.
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u/dillpickles103 11h ago
People walk around with so much cognitive dissonance and the stuff we choose to avoid or repress is different. They may feel the way you do about something else.
It’s really hard and can be a real challenge to balance. I try to focus on what I can control and find ways to show how accessible the lifestyle can be. If the lifestyle feels less daunting than it can make the morality easier for folks to look at.
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u/RedundantBiomass 11h ago edited 11h ago
People you know may not want to completely give up eating animal products, but they may be uncomfortable with the reality of how they arrive on their plate. Maybe you can open their eyes that vegan food can be delicious and get them into the habit of eating at least some of the time. If you hold that consuming animal products is immoral, any reduction in that behavior is an improvement. The best way you can do that is learning to prepare and sharing said delicious food, while going easy on pressure for people to fully convert and judgemental language. Frame it in you terms that are short and sweet. " I learned to cook food like this because I didnt want to feel bad about where it came from". People will get what youre talking about without feeling like theyre being proselytized to. Maybe theyll ask for the recipe, maybe theyll go meatless a few days a week, maybe theyll eventually come to veganism on their own terms. At the end of the day, you cant control their decision. You can nudge but its really easy to push too hard and drive people away. If the people around you didnt go fully vegan but did move in the right direction would you feel more seen?
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
Yeah the nudge to push balance is hard to find but your outlook definitely helps, thanks
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u/andobiencrazy friends not food 11h ago edited 11h ago
How comfortable is it going vegan in your area? My friend was hesitant because she thought she wouldn't be able to eat cheese, but then we found a variety of vegan cheese at the supermarket, and we also found vegan bread, pastries, donuts, etc. at the bakery, so she now wants to be vegan as well. We haven't watched dominion.
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
We are in the capital of an European country and have plenty of plant based options around, accessibility isn't the issue. Most comments have already said that it's probably cognitive dissonance which is a fair way to look at it
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u/Dejawostuff 10h ago
Thank you everyone for all the replies, I'm off to sleep and I'll read every comment once I wake up but I probably won't reply to most of them
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u/ThrowRA_scentsitive vegan 9h ago
Humans can't even be bothered to change habits to avoid the imminent environmental collapse we've created for ourselves, so I set their altruism bar even lower
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u/Severe-Match4233 8h ago
Becoming a vegan is hard. You are making a choice multiple times a day. Every dinner party, every time someone offers you food, you need to bring it up or it is brought up. Not everyone is as strong or is okay with being an 'inconvience'. A lot of people just close their eyes to it, because it's easier. Doesn't make them bad people. Ignorant maybe, but not bad.
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u/DramaticTechnology29 2h ago
I didn’t become vegan over night, deconstructing and reprogramming can take time, even if we want to do it immediately subconsciously there are fears and beliefs that often sabotage. On a neurological level our neural pathways have to establish a new pattern to overcome / override the old one (my understanding is in NT brains the old patterns / neural pathways degrade BUT in ADHD / ASD brains like mine they don’t and you actually have to spend more energy and time building up stronger new connections and pathways that over lay the old ones) - it took me 3 attempts over several years to go vegan. I also had other physical and mental health issues I was contending with that made it difficult BUT eventually when I was called out for my hypocrisy on a social media post THAT was the tipping point to actually take action and for it to stick. Everyone’s brains have to find a path that allows for that new info and reality to stick, and to let go and process the truth of it all. Facing reality hurts when you realise you are part of something horrific, and ofc we wish we could all just do it immediately though. I wish I had been born vegan ofc but - I wasn’t. We can only do what we can to educate others into better choices that align with their true core values, not the brainwashed version of reality we grow up with.
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u/Cultural_Wall999 1h ago
I know it's frustrating. But people don't understand / don't want to understand and rhe environment we've lived in all our lives does not make it any easier. They might switch, but it will take them longer. Or they won't. You have to make your peace with it. Easier said than done, I know. I wish I had a fully vegan friend myself...
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u/Tasty_Biscotti_1315 45m ago
What people eat doesn't make them or not make them your equal. People are free to make their own choices and shouldn't be forced to follow others views or choices. This is why people shy away from even considering it; the forcing and ridicule if they don't agree.
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u/jalil90t 8m ago
congrats on 2 months! that early phase is super tough emotionally. the thing is, most people don't change through logic or info dumps—eating animal products is just a deeply ingrained, passive habit for them, not an active choice to cause harm. when you try to convince them, they usually just feel judged and shut down. what helped me was stopping the debate entirely and just leading by example. make good food, share it casually, and live your life. showing them it's easy and tasty does way more than any argument. also, definitely look for local vegan meetups or online communities. having even a couple friends who get it takes a huge weight off your shoulders so you're not carrying all of this around family. give it time, it gets easier!
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u/Fallen_lord10 11h ago
Probably just let them eat their diet while you eat yours
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 11h ago
You can easily spot the non-vegans when they refer to veganism as a diet.
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u/Fallen_lord10 9h ago
And read again and show me where i put "veganism as a diet"
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 7h ago
Seems like I was right.
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u/Fallen_lord10 6h ago
Not in the slightest lol
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u/Badtacocatdab vegan 6h ago
Oh so you are vegan?
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u/LunaLgd 11h ago
Being vegan isn’t a diet. There are people who are not vegan but who do eat entirely plant based.
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u/Fallen_lord10 9h ago
Uh not to say you're unable to read
But I put just let them eat their diet while you eat yours.
Where did i put being vegan is a diet?
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u/GW_40spot 11h ago
You can apply this to any difference in opinion and ask the same question. So, how do you cope with those situations?
Giant companies who exploit countries and their populations for water resources? Oil companies that destroy the environment? Governments that harm civilians? Musicians that glorify hate/violence/misogyny? You ethical dilemma is one side of a many-sided die.
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
True I suppose, just expected my close ones to see it the way I saw it
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u/GW_40spot 11h ago
The next best outcome is that they accept you and respect the decision you made.
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u/Sea_Ring_5931 10h ago
Some people don't want to think about the real cruelty of animal products. Some wrongly believe they cannot get proper nutrition without meat. Also, many people are sentimentally attached to the animal foods they have eaten their whole lives and feel personally insulted if you question the morality of the eating habits they received from their parents and grandparents, etc. and which they consider part of their culture. The best thing you can do is set an example, since you are in the ethical vanguard. It might make sense to be tolerant especially of older people who are set in their ways, who don't know any different, and who are reluctant to listen to someone (especially someone younger) lecture to them. Fifty years from now, people will think of factory farming animals the way people today think of slavery. We are not there yet.
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u/z3nnysBoi 8h ago
Yeah I really don't understand how a vegan could live with non-vegans. I guess not being in the situation might explain it, but it just seems like a fundamental incompatibility.
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u/Teaofthetime 3h ago
Don't be so arrogant is my advice. Not everyone has the same moral outlook as you as frustrating as you may find it.
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u/Buzzard1022 11h ago
You chose a lifestyle that 98% of people don't share. Did you expect anything else?
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u/Dejawostuff 11h ago
I expected my friends to share my morality a little bit more... it do not take a lot of convincing for me to go vegetarian (and later vegan) so I thought that it wouldn't look much different for my friends
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u/Mercymurv 10h ago
Once they know better but do it anyway, thereby having the integrities of bestialists hurting animals for pleasure, it's up to you whether to treat them how they would treat a bestialist, or do your own thing, where you realize that the small influences you make around such ogres will help the animals despite it being extremely unfair to be treating them with a grace they would likely never show you if the tables were turned.
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u/Special_Rich_251 7h ago
You can't make grown folks do anything so quit trying and get over yourself 🙄
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u/Typical-Night-6549 vegan 10+ years 6h ago
There are many causes and things to quit supporting due to atrocities being committed. The same person who still eats meat might also be staunchly against supporting something else that you might still support, but just might not care about as much as they do for whatever reason.
I am vegan myself for the sake of the animals, so I definitely understand how you feel, and the alienation you’re going through right now. But I’ve been vegan for 15 years now, and I’ve just realized over time that people have different capacities for dealing with how they feel about various things, and everyone has different perspectives on what seriously disturbs them enough to make a life-altering change and what doesn’t.
It can be baffling when you think about how it all makes you feel and project that onto how you think others should feel about it, but projecting your own perspective onto them like that just makes it that much harder to see where someone is actually coming from, which I’ve found can be a roadblock into getting them to ever see things in a different light. And at the end of the day, I have personally “converted” more people to veganism just by cooking and sharing great vegan food with them without any judgement, and being open to good faith questions from people. When I was first vegan I was very argumentative and tried pleading with people to see things the vegan way and it just got me all kinds of vitriol and exclusion. Now I refuse to argue with anyone about it. I also live in the southern US in a deeply conservative area, so I know that comes into play in terms of my own experiences.
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