That people don't take anything a trans woman says seriously until she says "I'm gonna forcefem Nixon" and then they are very curious about her motive and method
that's exactly what I was going for, specifically to illustrate that transmasc ppl and transfem people both have different issues and you can't really compare the two
Unfortunately, I think it's a problem with how insular a lot of trans communities are. I very, very rarely encounter trans meetup groups, trans forums or even trans friend groups where there is even close to an even mix of transmascs and transfem. Most trans groups tend to heavily sway to one side or the other, and then when it gets pointed out it gets seen as picking a fight.
A trans friend of mine tried to join a trans club in college and ended up having to leave as all there wasn't a single other trans woman involved and the other members made her uncomfortable with how they treated her. I'm sure a lot of trans people have similar stories of trying to join a group, and not being treated well because you're a different gender than most of the other members.
There's a similar divide between cis gay men and cis lesbians, where they don't intermingle a ton. Hell, even cishet people mostly only make friends of people of the same gender as themselves. Society just kinda discourages making friends with and understanding people who aren't the same gender as yourself.
That's certainly the case for some people, but I don't often meet people who keep a lot of friends of different genders. I've been to a few meetup groups for LGBT stuff and they tend to sway heavily one way or another. Bigger events like pride usually have a much better mix, but smaller things like meetup groups tend to attract people of one gender and then scare away anyone else because they feel like they can't relate.
I said smth similar in a post on countbackwards, but there's also an aspect of talking past each other going on where some people think "transandrophobia" as a word means "a systemic oppression of transmasculinity" and some ppl think it means "the ways trans men specifically get mistreated in any given community", which, neither definition is wrong necessarily, but it sucks when trans guys are saying "hey we face xyz problems in this community, which is transandrophobia (2)" and the response is "transandrophobia (1) doesn't exist" and vice versa.
Like, regardless of theory, if someone in your community is bringing up that they feel unloved thats an issue that needs to be fixed regardless of axes of oppression, and that gets lost in the debate over language
And this happens to trans women talking about transmisogyny and nonbinary people talking about nonbinary hate - and general trans hate, too. You just can't talk about the specific issues trans people in the queer community face without people taking you in bad faith and getting mad :(
This is true but also generalizes a very specific type of erasure that specifically trans men face and is a fairly insensitive comment to leave on a post about how the specific difficulties felt by trans men are erased in different ways even by other members of the queer community, this type of generalization being one of them.
No two people are going to experience completely equal amounts of difficulty throughout their life, but it doesn't matter if one person experiences more hardship than another. Any person experiencing prejudice is worth hearing out and they shouldn't be talked down to or have their experiences minimized.
It’s why I’ve taken to just calling those people assholes cause I know trans women get a lot of shit but that doesn’t mean I can’t talk about the shit I get from them just for having a schmeckle.
I hate how everything everyone does is always a source of infighting. We're all trans and we all are oppressed why are we constantly at eachothers fucking throats?
What are you talking about? Being a trans man sounds awesome. I mean, sure, you have deal with most of the same issues other trans people do, but as long as you pass, you get treated just like a real man, including people treating you like a potential threat by default whenever your mental health isn't being overlooked or outright dismissed by society a society that often assumes you must always be interested in sex and porn, and the sense of isolation that's led to what some would describe as a "loneliness epidemic."
Oh, and of course, you get to benefit from male privilege (maybe, possibly, potentially. If you pass and you're seen as masculine enough to be a "real man", a feat that some of your cis peers are even accused of failing at.) And that male privilege absolutely balances out everything else, right? /s
First, this post is part of a pattern of weirdly hostile-to-trans-women posts I see from some transmasculine people. I absolutely agree that trans men’s issues need to be discussed, but this is not a serious or good way of doing that.
This is a giant strawman, but I'll try to steelman its points.
On 1: yes, some people will of course dispute that there is a distinct structural axis of oppression against men as men, including trans men. This is because men are a privileged position on the gender axis. That is not the same thing as saying trans men don’t experience specific forms of transphobia, discrimination, abuse, or marginalization, and that is not the same thing as saying men are not harmed by patriarchy.
On 2: the criticism generally isn’t "you’re saying trans men have it worse." It’s that discussions of transmisogyny repeatedly get flattened into "all trans people experience basically the same oppression," even where the mechanism being discussed is specifically directed at trans women.
And 3 is just a strawman. Talking about mistreatment of trans men does not inherently invalidate trans women’s suffering, and essentially nobody is arguing that it does. The objection is to using trans men’s experiences to deny, minimize, or talk over specifically transmisogynistic dynamics.
E.g. something I've heard recently, 'we're all faggots in the eyes of the state' demonstrates the issue. Solidarity does not require pretending that every member of a marginalized group is targeted in exactly the same way. You can acknowledge shared transphobia while also acknowledging that different groups experience distinct forms of it.
If we can't read between the lines and ignore all contextual tumblr discourse that gets posted here constantly, sure. Even if you don't say it's trans women, trans women's circumstances are clearly intended to be seen as the impetus for trans mascs being invisible and not taken seriously, with over zealous focusing on transmisogyny and the idea that trans women are taken seriously
I don't even necessarily disagree with the post, because that does happen that transmisogyny is used to shut down discussions of transandrophobia, but it's a poor mirror for the other post.
This is largely a "don't shut discussions of transandrophobia by making it about transmisogyny" while the other post was not about transmisogyny vs transandrophobia at all
My flair literally has my gender in it. I really don't appreciate the misgendering and screw your 'you're supposed to default to they' shit, I don't believe that at all when you came out swinging bestie.
No? She said "what the post said is happening is a strawman, here is why."
I'm sorry but you should work on your ability to listen to other people instead of immediately jumping to insulting people who disagree with you
your flair is 'genderfluid femboy' OP, I appreciate the outright hostility though instead of responding to literally anything I had to say
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u/shadow_fengenderfluid femboy (dms open) - Streak: 33h agoedited 3h ago
can i not identify as feminine when i'm a man? is that invalid now? i'm really sorry to all the real trans people i've set back by 10 years by identifying as feminine when i'm a man...
But seriously though, saying my identity is basically invalid does not contribute to my self-conflict. Thanks a lot...
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