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u/UncomfyPerspective 5d ago
This sub is 25% shitpost memes, 25% people whining about Forever, and 50% people whining about people whining about Forever.
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u/Elden_Ring_Hype 5d ago
Don't forget people whining about streamers!
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u/Anesthetize85 5d ago
Took the words right out of my mouth I would have said at least 25% asmongold alone.
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u/TheBungler2 5d ago
25% people whining about Forever, and 50% people whining about people whining about Forever.
These numbers are backwards.
There is infinitely more whining about every minor detail.
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u/patrincs 5d ago
Its hilarious that people thing the difference between classic and retail is a couple QoL changes. Retail and classic are so incomparable they're arguably different genres.
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u/Overall_Reputation83 5d ago
Okay, but look here, I drew myself as the chad, and you as the chud
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u/Chegg_F 5d ago
This one is unironically more accurate since nobody is suggesting changes to era
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u/oddspellingofPhreid 5d ago
Honestly, 95% of the conversation looks like this to me:
"We don't like blue elves"
"If you don't want changes, go back to Era"
"Shut up Retail nerd"
It's mostly just people arguing with strawmen at eachother tbh.
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u/lumpboysupreme 5d ago
The retail people make fun of skybornenfor being asspulls too?
But also ‘omg the elves are blue’ IS dumb. Like dude the night elves are right there. The trolls are right there.
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u/TomLeBadger 5d ago
This is more accurate. Most retail players I know and speak to are going into Forever knowing it's a classic like experience. Sure there's weirdos calling for flying mounts and dungeon finder etc, but they are a vast minority.
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u/randombean 5d ago
Not seen/heard of a single suggestion of either tbh
I'm out of the wow bubble right now though. Myself and friends have been waiting for classic plus to return
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u/Squally160 5d ago
The only people I have seen asking for flying, are classic andys building up scenarios in their mind.
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u/thepolesreport 5d ago
Yeah same. They just want a boogeyman out group to be angry with for “ruining their game”
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u/SocraticVoyager 5d ago
I've seen a handful. Shit, I saw someone 10 minutes ago say they should just introduce the Wow token because of the recent streamer RMT drama
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u/TomLeBadger 5d ago
It's super rare, and also most likely ragebait, but the neck beard final bosses in r/classicwow latched onto it the other day, genuinely thinking that they will add retail features etc.
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u/DarkPrincessEcsy 5d ago
I chock those up to people who will be gone the second they have to learn spawns on release day.
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u/Certain_Moose_7238 5d ago
Every single retail player ive talked to wants summoning stones, which is a prime example of an actual QOL thing most of them want to bring to them game that doesnt belong. The thread for that one was filled with retail players explaining why summoning stones are actually a needed requirement for the game. Luckily blizzard is holding their ground on that one. Another one is shared tagging/loot among people who arent partied like in retail. Retail players pretending they arent asking for qol stuff and then saying things like "nobody is actually asking for flying mounts" when they know damn well that isnt the kind of thing they are actually bringing up. It's disingenuous as hell.
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u/Cozy_Minty 5d ago
People who havent survived a classic style launch before are the ones asking for shared tagging. They have never had to compete with 100 people for the same mob and in this case its causing too much friction. Retail hasnt had a launch like this in a decade so they dont know how temporary it is. They are imagining having this much competition for the whole leveling process
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u/TomLeBadger 5d ago
I'm a retail player and I don't want anything added, all I want is new zones, quests, dungeons and raids, the lighting / fog tech is cool, and I'd like to see some remastered textures. I even agree with the typical classic andy that the new druid forms are a bad fit for the game.
Not everyone wants these qol things, your just generalising a large group of people because they play a game you don't like. We already know it's not going to happen, so you can stop panicking.
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u/ythriel 5d ago
This is so true that this is /rclassicwow and yet they talk constantly about wow forever.
It's not the same game, my brother in christ lol and may it never be. #nochanges crew can stay here and play Era, they cried enough to earn it. Made your bed, lay on it now.
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u/yallmindifismoke 5d ago
Yeah there’s a great game for people who love classic with no changes, it’s called classic.
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u/SnooWalruses3948 5d ago
It's not the #nochanges crew though, is it? That's such a facetious position.
It's the "we want changes, but we want them to adhere to the spirit and design philosophy of classic" crew.
And you're disregarding them, despite that being a totally reasonable position.
OSRS has literally run on the back of those people, which has turned it into the best MMORPG of the modern day. But sure, if you want to shadow box with a strawman, then go ahead. Developers are already in the right camp.
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u/Wise_Leopard7423 5d ago
The problem is that different people have different ideas about the "spirit and design philosophy of classic".
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u/SnooWalruses3948 5d ago
And that's fine, let's have the discussion. Shutting it down with contempt is, ironically, quite contemptible.
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u/oxblood87 5d ago
High res neon blue bear owls doesn't fit.
Im struggling to think of a single zone they wouldn't stand out like a 14" pink dildo
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u/MaKrukLive 5d ago
I have yet to see a purist on this sub, the worst I've seen is how people don't like skyborne and the assets that fit better into retail than classic aesthetic
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u/HildartheDorf 5d ago
This represents how I feel about forever right now.
Era needs no changes. Forever is not era.
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u/Serethe 5d ago
"fewer"
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u/Overall_Reputation83 5d ago
sorry, my vocabulary is limited to more and less. Please refer to the image I spent a lot of time on.
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u/AmericanPornography 5d ago
It’s okay, you were more or less right. We understand what you meant.
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u/scotaloo7 5d ago
This only makes sense to people who have never played a private Classic+ server. Those had tons of changes that were well received because the devs knew what players wanted. Blizzard doesn't so they need to be told which change is good and which one isn't.
Just because we oppose some of Blizzards changes doesn't mean we don't want any changes.
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u/1egg40eggs 5d ago
Classic+ brings retail players because it's a better game.
Classic+ brings era players because every fresh is fun.
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u/TomLeBadger 5d ago
I wouldn't say it's better, it's just different. There is room to play and enjoy both. Comparing classic and Retail is an apples to oranges comparison.
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u/FinnNyaw 5d ago
Classic community obsession with throwing rocks at retail players will never get me to stop smiling I dont think there is a single retail player that thinks any game is better , they just like variety. They dont want to be a leading opinion on how to handle the game and the ones who do are the loud minority
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u/HobNob_Pack 5d ago
'Were making this game for classic players'
'Guys this isnt classic!'
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u/enaray 5d ago
Literally... make it make sense. "Classic players can just go play classic" despite asking for classic+ for literally years which is what this is lmao.
Blizz said it themselves. I don't understand these people. But they'll all stop playing the game a few weeks after release once they get bored of the slow levelling and dungeons and then we can actually enjoy the game without people trying to turn it into retail 2.0
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u/Aggravating_Doctor20 5d ago
There is no current Classic. Era is very much not Classic with its endless Naxxramas patch. Forever is Classic +. A horizontal progression server for classic players (all players welcome of course).
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u/Concorditer 5d ago
Who exactly is "these people" though? The idea that Forever is only for the TRUE Classic Players but not those Retail INVADERS is silly. For one, not everyone fits so neatly in these "us vs them" boxes. What if someone plays both Classic and Retail? Do they belong in Forever? Is it bad if they voice their opinions? What if someone hasn't played either Classic or Retail in a long time and is just coming back now? Are they they gray blobs or the pink blobs in the meme? This idea of trying to parse out WOW players to figure out who gets to belong or not, or who's views matter or not, is just dumb.
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u/enaray 5d ago
No you're right. Forever is for a wider spectrum of players than just classic and era enjoyers.
"These people" refers to the people saying this game isn't developed with classic philosophy in mind, when blizz has stated that it is. It's the people that are telling people to "go play classic if you want classic". Complaining about the old style of gameplay etc.
Everyone can play and enjoy forever, it's not about who belongs or not. I agree with you there. It's about the game being made with classic-first principles in mind and people seemingly ignoring that.
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u/EntropicReaver 5d ago
forever is pretty explicitly created as classic or vanilla+, which has been understood to mean new content created with the original games's design decisions in mind
not just new content.... created to play in classic. there is a difference and its not pedantry
retail did not cease development, its still ongoing and getting new content. if you just want new content for the sake of new content, retail is waiting for you
there is no more content for the classic/vanilla design paradigm, which is what forever is supposed to remedy
so people coming in and asking for retail-esque QoL or art changes rubs against the entire point of the thing
its not gatekeeping anyone for existing but it needs to exist independent of retail and assert its own design principles
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u/chaotic910 5d ago
Keeping the original game's design doesn't mean not adding quality of life changes. That doesn't go against the philosophy of it. OSRS has added a TON of QoL changes while still keeping to the core concept that makes it fit into the original game.
The original point of classic is that there ISNT more content that it needs, it's a standalone complete experience. Forever is to take the ideas behind itemization, bosses, systems, and questing, and make changes to them while making it match the philosophy of the original game.
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u/YorkeZimmer 5d ago
Right, which is why most of the complaints are about things that violate that.
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u/No-Contribution-7269 5d ago
I'm so fucking confused on what ya'll want. Classic + entire concept is that it would update the classic experience and add new content. They are literally doing that and you're mad anyways.
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u/CartoonistReady4320 5d ago
I am more than happy with keeping Classic Classic and Forever a modified Classic. The unfortunate part is even with a compromise like this I don’t think anyone will be happy. Ever.
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u/towersoveryouowo 5d ago
Why do some wow players have this... Complex? They get officially supported new and modern wow, they get old nostalgic wow, they get old WoW but new with extra content... Why do you need to resent your fellow players? I don't like final fantasy 14, it's all too modern and streamlined. So i went back to final fantasy 11, because it's great and still exists for me to play. Why would i be thinking of final fantasy 14 players while playing my favorite game?
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u/Concorditer 5d ago
Yeah, all this "us vs them" bickering has been a real downer for what should be a really exciting time for everyone. I get that some people are scared that a game they are really looking forward to might get "ruined" by the opinions of others but that has turned into some real toxic attitudes to people who are really just their fellow WOW players. WOW Forever uses Vanilla WOW as a base so it will obviously be more similar to Classic than Retail. But it is still a new game. If we want to think about it as Classic+, then that "plus" still means changes and new things added. Different people will have different opinions about what that "plus" should mean. This idea that there are these two monolithic groups of people, one being pure Classic Players, and the other being pure Retail Players, and they both have super consistent views and WOW Forever is only meant for one of those groups and the other is just invaders who aren't welcome is just stupid. Lots of people don't fit neatly into those Retail/Classic boxes. There are lots of divided opinions even among Retail or Classic players. Using this super simplistic "us vs them" view is both inaccurate and needlessly divisive.
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u/Harrycrapper 5d ago
I mean, plenty of people rightfully predicted this sub would be a clusterfuck for a while if classic+ actually happened given that if you asked 10 people what they thought it should entail you'd get 11 answers.
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u/eva_verinaz 5d ago
because its been proven time and time again if you open your community to everyone itll get destroyed. every single fucking time not a single thing became better long term after blowing up. gatekeeping is essential to keeping anything you like the way you and that group like it. redditors just hate that cause it means they wont be catered to.
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u/nobulliepls 4d ago
Vanilla WoW was successful precisely because it catered to such a wide audience. That is what old Blizzard did so well: they would "borrow" ideas from already successful games, like EverQuest in this case, then refine, polish, and make them more accessible to a broader audience. That formula is a huge part of why WoW became as successful as it did, and every other game in their old catalog.
I know it’s difficult to think critically for yourself when it’s easier to just adopt whatever the most popular streamer is saying, but my god, at least try to use your own head a little.
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u/KanedaSyndrome 4d ago
There is no way to appeal to both Retail players and Classic players at the same time in the same product. There is however a way to do it with two products, and that's what we have now, we have Retail and we have Forever. Solved. End of discussion. Retail players shouldn't get to enact changes in Forever.
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u/nobulliepls 4d ago edited 4d ago
>There is no way to appeal to both Retail players and Classic players at the same time in the same product
What a low iq take. let me guess, you think the classic community is a monolith and all think the same thing? or vice versa of the retail community?people like you are so tiring to engage with
you must be a bot, or just feed off of classic vs retail, team vs team, political type bs
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u/Anxious-Schedule-598 5d ago
Because loud fans have an influence on the direction the game goes in
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u/floppintoms 5d ago
Its not just WoW, Runescape is like this too. Even suggest playing RS3 in the osrs sub and they act like you personally killed their puppy. And even within the osrs community they make weird hierarchies of game modes, ironmen are superior because they "earned" their gear, but ultimate ironmen are even better because they can't use the bank. If you're a group ironman you might as well just be a regular account. It's wild over there.
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u/Felthrian 5d ago
It's online gaming communities as a whole, especially older games that are large time sinks.
Runescape and WoW are prominent examples. People started playing them in their childhood/teens, decades later people have sunk thousands upon thousands of hours into them and have this pathological attachment to them.
To be fair, it doesn't help that communities originally rallied around things like OSRS and Classic servers largely because of mistakes made in the "main game" trajectory.
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u/Creative_Magazine816 5d ago
Because the warcraft franchise has been tortured for over a decade, and people drawn to classic are worried certain changes in forever signal a change in design philosophy that will ultimately ruin the game, as retail has been more or less ruined, or at the very least has been made unrecognizable.
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u/EitherSpite4545 5d ago edited 5d ago
I mean I hate to say it but r/FFXI used to be notorious for going "fuck xiv and it's players" as like it's one joke for years until the influx of players last year with the raid series.
That said I agree with your point just saying xi is a bad example lol
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u/Alternative-Put-3932 5d ago
Hell FF11 players lovingly embraced FF14 players when it got a giant influx of people at least when it first happened. When i started playing it again after years I had a guy just like you'd see in classic invite me and help me get all the summoner summons without asking for anything and added me as a friend.
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u/Almaegen 5d ago
Because the players want classic plus which is basically OSRS, they don't want retail plus which woulf be like RS3 but with horizontal progression.
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u/jaiimaster 5d ago
Classic players were bought up on a system that was so us vs them that cross faction communication was impossible ingame, and cross faction collusion out of game, if proven, was bannable.
Us vs them.
Everyone who still plays retail is the new them.
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u/tethysian 5d ago
Well in this case the problem is that we're sharing the same sub for some reason. Separate subs would solve a lot of problems.
And it would be nice to hear how classic players feel about the game without having to go through a gauntlet of retail players who come to the classic sub and complain about classic players.
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u/Slave-to-Armok 5d ago
Comment section literally proving that meme right lol
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u/Riktar71 5d ago
You don't understand bro classic+ needed neutral race, retail player models, retail ui, retail mobs... this is what classic+ is about!!
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u/actionbard 5d ago
This sub is nothing but complaining now
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u/Smooth_Local_3075 4d ago
Yeah if you want actual content about Forever or Beta updates you have to be in the other sub.
Over here it’s just endless whining about changes and RMT
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u/Glad-Low-1348 5d ago
Retail bad, now upvote.
Classic bad, now upvote.
This fucking community man smh
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u/_kisis 5d ago
Forever was made to have a "classic" type of game with new contents but preserving the soul and game design of classic.
I seriously don't understand how retail players don't understand that. Like are you braindead. You already have a version of the game with patches and new content. Forever is just that for those who loves the game design of classic.
Maybe you don't understand that the qol you want will drastically change the game and how it's played. There's nothing wrong if you like it, but how can't you understand that the POINT of forever is to have a wow without it ?? Like, please watch blizz con. Idk what to tell you. Rly are all of you stupid or just jealous because the new game attract more players ?
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u/KanedaSyndrome 4d ago
This is it exactly. They simply can't compute that their need for QoL would invalidate Forever (Classic+) for the Classic players. The fact that they don't see the damage of summoning stones and group finder etc. is extremely telling.
And as you say, they already have game for them with yearly expansions or whatever the cadence is. And apparently they think Forever is also for them? Sure they are welcome, if they play the Vanilla way and accept that as how it's going to be in Forever going forward. There's a reason Classic players (millions of players) left Retail throughout the years, because Retail stopped appealing to them, and that's why there's now a million player market for Forever.
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u/Dathran_Pendragon 5d ago
You think you do, but you don't. ~Arch prophet J 'I was wrong, but also right' Allen Brack
Devs doing well so far, let's hope they can expand without too much bloat. A challenge I don't envy them for.
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u/Alone_Ambition_3729 5d ago
There's some QOL that its like ok lets hear them out. I do think a "horizontal progression" game needs to have broad appeal so attracting retail players is obviously a good idea.
But there's other QOL that literally optimizes the game out of the game. This needs to be shamed completely out of the forever-curious retail mind
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u/Zuby_Hype_Train 5d ago
This is why all the people arguing in abstract are absolute fools
Shared mob tagging, for example, is a fairly decently requested QoL change that is strictly against the spirit of Classic (and thankfully the devs spoke out about this one not changing)
Meanwhile you have a vocal minority on this subreddit acting like a more modern auction house UI was Blizzard shooting their dog.
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u/gubigubi 5d ago
I think WoW Forever should have SOME QoL changes.
The problem with that is I do not trust blizzard to implement anything what so ever because look at what happened to retail. And even with WoW Forever already look at some of the things they have already added and the game isn't even out yet. However some of the things they have added and are going to add are really cool. Time will tell if we just get classic+ or diet retail.
At least this time around I can drop the game instantly and go back to classic whenever I want.
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u/wigglin_harry 5d ago edited 5d ago
Society is truly sick these days, everything is so divided to the point where we have divisions in a fucking video game community
Retail Players are some sort of boogyman immigrant coming in to CHANGE YOUR COUNTRY CLASSIC
Era Players are some sort of perma stuck in the past amish community
When in reality we're all the same fucking players just trying to play a video game. WoW Forever is a perfect example of why devs should just do what they want to do without ANY input from the community because literally no one can agree on what they actually want
The past few weeks have made me literally start to hate this community, sure its never been perfect, but 80% of the people posting here fucking suck, like really fucking suck a lot
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u/compound-interest 4d ago
I couldn't disagree more. I think they should poll players like OSRS does and only add things if 70% of players vote yes to it. Otherwise, eventually they will make so many unpopular decisions that only Blizzard superfans will remain (like retail).
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that tbh. Any decision you make shapes the playerbase that sticks around. People playing retail while classic was there have a different set of preferences than people who only played classic. It's okay to segment people into preferences, and discuss the game implications of catering to other folks. This is one of the most interesting discussions to have, and I don't like that you are so dismissive of it, like people are arbitrarily segmenting, instead of having wide differences in preferences.
I realize it's a retail thing to think that Blizzard shouldn't listen to the community, but honestly that's what got us retail. The more in tune with the classic community Blizzard is, the less bad decisions for Forever they will make imo.
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u/Validated_Owl 5d ago
I am not a classic player, because I already played classic when it was new. Forever has me excited though
This is to say that I've had NO involvement with the classic community for the past few years. Now that I'm engaging in forever, all I see now is an avalanche of whiny bitchy entitled classic players having a meltdown over bears and elves and it makes me want to stay far away from absolutely anything to do with classic wow
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u/hallstar07 5d ago
Yeah these past few weeks really showed how sad some of this community is. I’m pumped for wow forever and I’m glad blizzard didn’t bend to either side
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u/Lyriian 5d ago
Nothing lives more rent free in a classic players head than the retailers who don't give them a second thought.
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u/sylva748 5d ago
For real. The amount of boogeyman posts this sub has put up since Forever was announced is honestly pathetic
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u/BenjaCarmona 5d ago
I love classic players larping as victims all the time, they are cute.
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u/FinnNyaw 5d ago
You dont get it, retail players are the cause of all of their problems
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u/scotaloo7 5d ago
You were asking for heroic versions of leveling dungeons 5 seconds ago lmao.
"Playing victims" Yeah they're the victims of your terrible suggestions that would ruin the game they have been wanted to play for who knows how long and has no other alternative as Blizzard has shut down all the good private servers.
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u/naerisshal 5d ago
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u/tethysian 5d ago
Let's note that he brings up players leaving over retail making changes to the classes, game design and the art style. Forever is doing the exact same thing.
I'm a classic player but people have to stop taking these devs at their word. If that even is who this guy is.
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u/Slave-to-Armok 5d ago
“While I can’t speak for everyone else” lol what a nothing burger statement then
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u/Pure-Fuel-9884 5d ago
Its all in your head sweetie, there are no hordes of retail players here.
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u/Adventurdud 5d ago
I want QoL improvements that smoothen the experience, like UI improvements, unified bagspace, that sort of things.
I do not want Qol changes that changes the gameplay and discourages communication and social play. Like dungeonfinder.
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u/AmericanPornography 5d ago
There are countless classic players who want numerous QoL changes.
But I guess that fact doesn’t make the anti-retail circlejerk get off.
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u/scotaloo7 5d ago
There's a massive difference between a Classic player asking for QoL changes like soul shards stacking and retail players asking for shared mob tagging and dungeon finder.
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u/hallstar07 5d ago
We can’t compete with the no life classic purists who dominate these posts. They want era with a few new dungeons and raids. We want an updated game that has the soul of classic but ditches the mistakes from the past.
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u/lichlark 5d ago
Everybody that plays this game is a fucking chud. Literally on both sides of the fucking argument. Classic players have a victim complex, retail players are actual dicks poking and prodding at people in a cage as they throw shit at each other.
Literally both sides are full of nothing but bad faith arguments and ragebaiters trying to get a rise out of the other and it's genuinely infuriating.
So many people have absolute shit takes, really like to larp as game designers/balancers, and honestly contribute a net negative to any and all conversations that could/should occur about this fucking game.
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u/DryLook7889 5d ago
Retailers dont realize that too much QOL is bad, too many games I love had died due to excessive handholding, cough my monster hunter wilds cough
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u/Asthma_Queen 5d ago
yeah like not appreciating having size of world feel like a world because you have to travel across it time to time xD
most recent experience in retail was during SoD briefly, made like lv 13 priest did dungeon finder, was hilariously scaled up healing/damage in a dungeon we were rushing through with 0 effort and no fun, and had no clue where we were, why we are there what we are doing etc lol, was some egyptian place.
settled my mind the last time i touched game in legion least it wasn't that. Now i can't imagine what people have grown accustomed to.
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u/AppointmentNaive2811 5d ago
It's not hard guys.
Forever is a title that leans *extensively* into the "Classic Identity" while also bringing needed change.
If you want to play it *without* the needed and necessary change, that already exists. Go play Era.
If you want it to be less like Classic and have even more QoL changes, go play Retail.
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u/AkkunEXE 5d ago
Yeah but the issue is even being in the Classic+ group and disagreeing with some retail takes puts you in the "nochange go back to era" group most of the time.
And is there even an actual "nochange" group of players these days?
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u/Zuby_Hype_Train 5d ago
You could literally say the same thing about agreeing with any change at all putting you in the “Retail minus slop enjoyer” group to the Classic purists. Most people are just completely incapable of nuanced online discourse.
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u/AkkunEXE 5d ago
I mean yeah I disagree with those too, that's what make these arguments so annoying.
Maybe that's my algorithm, but I see way more people who want "retail features" than people who want classic era with no change.
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u/AppointmentNaive2811 5d ago
Absolutely, and I see them more often than people advocating for more QoL.
I had an argument with someone about certain modern-adjacent UI elements and their design, and that lead him to state that Forever was "literally retail" because of it.
No one that is informed enough to make that claim would make it outside of disingenuity; the guy then stated "haven't played since cata".
Anyone claiming that "Forever is retail" or have "I'm not playing because of XYZ" dealbreakers that are overall inconsequential nitpicks like UI absolutely fall into the camp of "nochange".
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u/Verdauga 5d ago
This whole "retail vs. classic" thing is so boring and contrived.
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u/Aggravating_Doctor20 4d ago
I think it's a useful abstraction but people need to stop taking it personally. The road to retail is paved with good intentions. We don't need two retail games.
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u/Haemwich 5d ago
Sell junk button, combo bag, and bag sort were great QoL that even my diehard no changes friend is grateful for. He also likes the doubled Blanchy Bag space so maybe he's finally accepting progress like a veteran carpenter finally using a cordless drill driver.
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u/Buzzbuzz_Becuz 5d ago
Forever has too many changes for me. I'll just play the classic or anniversary server if I feel the need to warcraft. Which I don't at the moment. If they do another cycle of classic anniversary servers in a few years, maybe I'd come back to that though.
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u/DrywallSky 5d ago
The more the merrier, but if you didnt play classic, just stop giving your weak ass feedback 🤷
Its not "no changes", its just not your garbage ones.
Every brilliant idea is just some form of: "This thing people have loved and kept coming back to for 20 years is actually too difficult and/or inconvenient for me. It would be a really good idea to make it easier and more meaningless for me. Good design is when my effort never gets above what an 8yo could output."
Classic players wanted a version of Classic they didnt know everything about. Thats Classic+. That doesnt mean they want it to be developed for the 30 year old dudes that have less faculty than children had in 2005.
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u/KanedaSyndrome 4d ago
Precisely. Just saw some dude whine that soulshards don't stack, so he didn't want to play warlock.
We have people that want teleport to dungeons and auto grouping, we have people thinking that skinning raids and everyone being able to skin the same animal several times makes sense.
We have people that think dungeons should be much shorter. I wonder how they react when they reach BRD.
We have people that think it's intolerable that they have to chat and communicate with people to form a group, and they think it's insane that people could "gasp" take up to around 15minutes to navigate to the dungeon they are running - or even longer if it's not in their own territory.
And what pisses me off the most, kinda pissed yeh lol, is that they already have a product, they have Retail, so why are they here asking for changes to Classic+ now that we finally got a product for the Classic players?
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u/Naustis 5d ago
You mean like each soulshard taking 1 slot in the bag? 🙄 Such critical feature to have
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u/KanedaSyndrome 4d ago
It is. Kinda. It's a thousand cuts. It adds to an inventory tax on warlocks that are already a very powerful class that is very good to farm kills with and loot with - having to sort inventory or do more trips to town, or choose to have fewer soulshards in the bags is part of the gameplay for warlocks, like it or not.
If you don't understand this, then you are part of the problem the Classic players refer to. Inventory management is also gameplay, even when it's frictional gameplay that kinda annoys the player and they have to work around it.
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u/PokemonThanos 5d ago
Classic is still there for you to play
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u/ShoulderpadInsurance 5d ago
So is retail. Forever is Classic+, and has active development unlike Classic.
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u/humangingercat 5d ago
I thought you didn't want changes. No changes is over there in classic.
Welcome to classic+ where we get changes
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u/Ghalnan 5d ago
Good job knocking down that straw man. Being against specific changes is not the same things as being against any changes, I think we all know that.
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u/ShoulderpadInsurance 5d ago
We want changes in-line with the design philosophy they had then, not that the main game has now.
It’s choosing to walk left instead of right; a different decision to reach a different destination. Telling someone to stay still isn’t a valid argument.
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u/danglotka 5d ago
While I agree, I think over decades they were making changes in line with their philosophy, its just that player feedback got to them death-by-thousand-cuts style. Now they will develop it with the benefit of hindsight and being better equipped to apply that philosophy.
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u/TatoRezo 5d ago
but your idea for what is left differs from mine, from his, from her, and them and everyone else.
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u/Zuby_Hype_Train 5d ago
Telling someone to stay still isn’t a valid argument.
You are literally advocating for many things to stay still and calling that taking a different path.
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u/ShoulderpadInsurance 5d ago
I don’t need to change my clothes to walk left instead of right.
Change should serve a purpose and leave things meaningfully better than they were before.
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u/Zuby_Hype_Train 5d ago
You might want to give up on the analogies big dawg, you’re genuinely terrible with them.
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u/ShoulderpadInsurance 5d ago
Change should serve a purpose and not lead you to the same endpoint you were heading towards before.
It’s really simple. I don’t know how else I’m supposed to explain this.
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u/Zuby_Hype_Train 5d ago
It’s pretty abundantly clear the devs have no intention of leading us to the same endpoint that is Retail.
It’s genuinely unhinged or a complete lack of comprehension if you think simple QoL changes to a 22 year old game turns it into the same thing as Retail.
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u/TrueExigo 5d ago
There are people who want new content that feels just like classic, not something that’s presented as classic but is actually another retail
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u/CostaNic 5d ago
I swear to god people who think forever is anything like retail haven’t touched retail in more than a decade. There is otherwise no way anyone with half a brain could think forever is more like retail than it is like classic.
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u/Zuby_Hype_Train 5d ago
Their last experience with retail was probably Wrath of the Lich King based on the general feedback I see.
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u/Randvek 5d ago
That’s for sure true of a lot of the people I’ve seen on WoW. “Wrath ruined WoW” and “Cataclysm ruined WoW” are both very common sentiments.
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u/Zuby_Hype_Train 5d ago
I’m genuinely part of the “Cataclysm ruined WoW” camp, despite enjoying several aspects of Retail.
It’s just hilarious to see people seethe and cry “Retail -“ about things that have been around for 18 years of WoW’s lifespan.
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u/Randvek 5d ago
I kind of think “retail” mindset started with MoP when we got our own farms and slowly started the move toward being more of a single player mmorpg, but even that was 13 years ago!
We all have our own sliding scale of retailism and that’s what makes this such a challenge for the current dev team.
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u/moonduckk 5d ago
i swear people still dont get that its CLASSIC plus not wow reimagined
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u/Havesh 5d ago
Forever is guided by Classic principles
Straight from the Lion's mouth.
If you don't like Classic Principles, Retail is still there for you to play.
But we all know you'll play Forever in spite of what you're saying here, so the Devs have no reason to listen to you. They still get your money.
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u/PokemonThanos 5d ago edited 5d ago
Classic principles doesn't just mean a copy of classic.
edit: no idea what it says below since the guy responded then blocked me.
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u/ArgonianFly 5d ago
Retail players are the queens of gaslighting. They'll tell you this game wasn't made for you, it shouldn't have SD graphics, and then say you're complaining about nothing.
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u/AkkunEXE 5d ago
God the amount of "nobody likes the SD models they should just get rid of it and redo the whole world" I'm seeing is driving me crazy.
Then you get called a classic andy that should go back to era if you disagree...
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u/SvempaGladiator 4d ago
Retailers will keep suppressing the classic players until forever is ruined. They keep saying things like "Go back to classic" and "Forever isn't classic". They say the game isn't for us classic players and yet they will be the first players to move on to play the new shiny game.
Classic fans will never give up on this game, and all we want is a "Forever"-game. Retailers don't look at this as their forever home so why do we even value their opinions?
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u/Beginning_Green_740 5d ago
Retail is so bad that even Retail players do not really want to play it.
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u/Lady_White_Heart 5d ago
Retail players will play new content to try it out though.
Retail is and always will be more popular than classic.
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u/KitchenTeacher429 5d ago
There will always be a loud minority of people who cry for QoL changes in every game they play.
Just ignore them.
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u/SpinachSignal8915 5d ago
You just assuming this game was made 100% for whatever crowd you identify with is silly.
Blizzard is trying to cater to loads of people. Doing an okay job at it. But its not just for one group so get over it.
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u/hallstar07 5d ago
I just want to say I hate you all and I hope you guys don’t play wow forever