r/The10thDentist • u/xmuskorx • 2d ago
Food (Only on Friday) “Expresso” version is not any worse than “Espresso” and maybe even better
A) Both are in the dictionary now: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expresso
B) Both are understandable. No one would get confused by what you mean when you ask for one, pretty much anywhere in the world.
C) Some may argue that “Espresso” is truer to the Italian language. But that’s only if we go by pronunciation/spelling. The meaning… is lost. Espresso means roughly “expressed” or “pressed out” in Italian.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/italian-english/espresso
But… hey. Notice that one of the meanings is “expressed!” (in the sense of squeezed out). That’s exactly what “Expresso” evokes. So while “Espresso” preserves the Italian SPELLING, it loses the meaning, as the word “Espresso” means nothing to an English speaker, while “Expresso” evokes the meaning of “squeezing” or “pressing” the coffee through a filter.
This is more of a pick-what-you-want situation, and each has merit. There is no reason to prefer spelling and sacrifice meaning if want to stay "true" to Italian.
D) and sure “Expresso” makes it sound like something that is fast, and that’s false.
This just means we need to educate people on the meaning of “Expresso”: that it means “pressed through,” not “fast.”
But with “Espresso,” people don’t know what the heck it means either and still need to be educated…
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u/Shardik884 2d ago
What are you on about? It loses its meaning? It didn’t lose its meaning, it’s not “truer to the spelling” … Espresso is an Italian word. You’re saying the equivalent of we should say “bone apple tea” because Bon Appétit doesn’t make sense in our language.
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u/NegativeMammoth2137 2d ago edited 1d ago
If anything if you want to be truer to the originally meaning, you could just fully translate all the coffee names: pressed (espresso), milk coffee (latte), hooded (cappuccino), restrained (ristretto), long (lungo), American (americano), stained (macchiato), and so on
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u/Awdayshus 18h ago
You convinced me. I'm ordering a size 20 the next time I'm at a Starbucks. If they try to make me call it Venti, I'll say "I never learned Italian."
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u/RobActionTributeBand 2d ago
No it "looses" its meaning because we also should cater to dummies who don't know the word "lose" too to two.
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u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 1d ago
Honestly i think loose and lose piss me off the most
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u/Endaarr 1d ago
Idk for me the most triggering is would of, but at least that one is only written.
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u/Scratchpost6677 8m ago
mine is "I could care less" since it completely butchers what the phrase is supposed to mean
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u/oniiichanUwU 2d ago
It’s like saying croissant loses its meaning and we should just call them crescents
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u/SadBook3835 2d ago
OP: but everyone knows what you mean if it's in context!
What an absolute clown
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u/Vishnej 2d ago edited 2d ago
He's saying we should say "Good Appetite!" in our language because "Bon Appétit!" doesn't make sense in our language. Not exactly, but it's not unrelated, and it does retain more in meaning than the direct loanword.
I guess the French, Portuguese, and Spanish languages already use "Expresso" normally, and it's an extremely common mistake in US English. That, coupled with the fact that the meaning transfers better through cognates... I'm honestly game to domesticate a loanword for once.
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
— James D. Nicoll [1]2
u/asktheages1979 1d ago
I had no idea wtf you were talking about with regards to French but TIL that in France they do call an espresso a "café express". In Canadian French, it's "espresso", e.g. "Depuis 1957, le Café Lino est le premier établissement à avoir introduit l’espresso italien à Montréal" (source: https://cafelino.ca).
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u/xmuskorx 2d ago
I mean you can read exactly what I mean about the meaning in OP.
espresso and express are both ultimately cousins to latin exprimere (meaning out press)
it's not coincidence that presence of express in English jas influenced later borrowing of espresso / expresso. these words are related to the same latin root
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u/lyndseymariee 2d ago
English speakers don’t say it because it means “pressing”, they say it because they think that’s how it’s pronounced.
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u/Batman_AoD 2d ago
Before I learned that "expresso" was a mispronunciation, I thought it meant "express" in the sense of "fast." I'm guessing that's a fairly common misconception.
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u/Tobar_the_Gypsy 2d ago
So did Jordan Schlansky. He was WRONG!
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u/Batman_AoD 2d ago
I'm guessing this is a reference to a Conan bit that I'm not familiar with?
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u/Donte333 1d ago
Become familiar you wont regret it, its the one in a coffee shop
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u/Batman_AoD 1d ago
I watched the bit where Conan finds out he bought a fancy espresso machine and put it right outside his office, so he confiscated the espresso machine and tells him he has to drink drip coffee for a week. It was extremely funny, so I'll definitely watch the one in a coffee shop as well.
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u/xmuskorx 2d ago
the word "express" itself in English initially meant the same as in Latin "pressed out" it slowly changed to acquire multiple new meanings eventually coming to mean fast.
"pressed our" to "clearly defined" to "express train" (meaning a special train that will skip stops to get to defined destination) and then to just "fast."
espresso comes form the same latin root exprimere, it just lost the k sound somewhere along the waym
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u/Batman_AoD 2d ago
And it does still sometimes mean "pressed out," albeit rarely; and the connection to "expression" is clearer.
But how did "clearly defined" show up in that etymological sequence?
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u/weirdplacetogoonfire 1d ago
Haven't seen it noted here, but the verb express is still commonly used for expressing milk. I have always thought of it as a similar way, as expression of milk is not entirely dissimilar from expression of espresso through a filter.
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u/Nicodemus888 1d ago
Ironically you are correct. Espresso does mean fast. All this pressing nonsense is OP’s fever dream.
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u/xmuskorx 2d ago
that's true.... an addressed towards the end.
but it's not a coincidence. existance of "express" in general is what probably of pushed espresso towards to expresso in some cases.
and express means "press our" because it has the same old latin root as espresso in Latin - exprimere
it was actually Italian that lost the "k" at some point while it fossilzed in english.
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u/Weird-Knee-3464 1d ago
If they think it because it looks and sounds similar to express, that is still because it means pressing.
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u/chemicalsunshine 2d ago
Let me axe you pacifically what you think about salmon irregardless
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u/Massive-Rain-6938 2d ago
Enjoy your updoot, Mr. Wrong Guy
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u/smore-phine 2d ago
Idk OP may be on to something. C’est la vie? Nah, that’s sest lavee. Let’s just completely throw etymology out the window, fuck it. Ballet? Bahlit. Cafe? Caeff. Lingerie? Lynn Jerry.
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u/decanonized 1d ago edited 1d ago
"The word 'Espresso' means nothing to an English speaker"
.......uh huh, in the same way "déjà vu", "kindergarten" and "guacamole" mean nothing to an English speaker?
You're basically just arguing against loan words
ETA: also, if you're gonna happily drink an Italian invention and build a thousand coffee drinks on that base, you better not be precious about needing the name to be translated to your own language for your own convenience...
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u/bathroomcypher 1d ago
No but seriously, “espresso” in Italian doesn’t mean pressed, and yes Latin root word meant that (thousand and more years ago) but pressed out would be “pressato”. Espresso loosely means fast/direct. We even had so called “espresso” trains in dinosaur era before high speed rail was a thing. They were direct trains that travelled long journeys (apparently still existing as luxury experiences).
The only valid argument to say expresso instead of espresso is one’s right to be lazy and inarticulate.
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u/georgeec1 1d ago
It's incredible how you have made a series of arguments that go completely against your final statement
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u/bathroomcypher 1d ago
Defending Americans’ right to be lazy is perfectly compatible with Italian grammar accuracy
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u/Daisy-Fluffington 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't think the dinosaurs had trains, I think Dinosaur Train was in fact just a made up kid's show.
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u/Competitive_Let_9644 1d ago
Isn't people being "lazy and inarticulate" how Italian lost the X in the prefix in the first place?
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u/SchemingVegetable 1d ago
Espresso =/= expressed, and the link you posted literally disagrees with you.
Espresso DOES in fact take its name from "being fast", the same as "express train"
"Esprimere" the verb you linked, means "to voice/say something" like "to express discomfort", and that's the only meaning "esprimere" has in Italian, unlike the english "express" which has two meanings
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u/xmuskorx 1d ago
Italian actually has the other two mensing too lol
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u/TNFX98 1d ago
I've linked you 2 different Italian dictionaries that say otherwise, I've told you that in standard Italian it does not have the meaning "to press", I've tried to explain to you that what you're referring to it's the etymology of the word and not its current meaning in Italian.
Using espresso/esprimere in italian to say pressed/to press is undeniably wrong.
If you want to keep trying explaining Italian to Italians keep going though
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u/xmuskorx 1d ago
so... the etymology matches AND the modern meaning matches.
thanks for making my point stronger
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u/TNFX98 1d ago
No, I've literally told in 3 different ways that the modern meaning doesn't match
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u/xmuskorx 1d ago
which Italian meaning of espresso does not match English Express?
I seen zero. they all match.
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u/TNFX98 1d ago
It does match the meaning of the word express which has nothing to do with the fact the coffe is pressed out but rather that it's fast. Nor in English or in Italian the word espresso/express mean in any case pressed out which was your initial point.
To express an emotion, or for example to ask for something expressively match in meaning, yes. It doesn't match the etymology that you used to justify your delirious rant over the coffee being pressed out.
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u/xmuskorx 1d ago
Word salad..
Respond with a list of meaning of espresso
- meaning 1
- meaning 2
- meaning 3
Then explain how they don't match English "express". You can't
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u/blazneg2007 2d ago
We need to educate people that "expresso" means PRESSed, but esPRESSo sacrifices meaning? These the mental gymnastics we go through instead of just saying "I was wrong" and moving on 😆
Edit- typo
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u/LiterallyRain 2d ago edited 2d ago
So while "Espresso" preserves the Italian SPELLING, it loses the meaning, as the word "Espresso" means nothing to an english speaker
I like thinking of this in the context of the plural of Octopus. There are 3 versions: Octopuses, Octopi, and Octopodes.
The base of the word is Greek, oktṓpous (ὀκτώπους) which means "Eight-footed."
Octopodes is the form closest to the greek plural (oktṓpodes).
Octopi is funny because it takes the original greek word, conjugates it in the Latin way, and uses it in the English language.
Octopuses uses the regular english pluralization.
Which do you say, OP? If it's about preserving meaning relative to the language it's being conveyed in, am I safe to assume you prefer Octopuses?
And on that note, for a more apples to apples comparison, does "Octopus" actually mean nothing to an English-speaker because it's a greek word for "Eight-footed," and should we then pluralize it to "Eight-feet?"
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u/logosloki 2d ago
the plural in Latin is also octopodes.
octopi comes from an anonymous early 19th Century person writing to The Quarterly Review (think of the most gatekeepy periodical you know of and then add 19th Century British Classism to it) not understanding how Greek and Latin words are modified in a sentence and incorrectly using the wrong method to make the plural.
to be fair to them the word had been transmitted to them wrong. in Latin the word is octópús. this had unfortunately been rendered as octopus when it re-entered English in the late 18th Century. if our anonymous person had have known the word was octópús they would have known that the genitive (possessive) form of the word would be octópodis, and as plurals in both Latin and Greek are derived from the genitive form of a noun they would have known that all the plurals would have been in the form of octópod-[insert your plural ending here based on what form of the word you're using].
instead they believed the word really was octopus and that nominative (subject) nouns in Latin that end in -us use -i as a plural so clearly the plural would be octopi.
and by the time anyone had noticed the incorrect spelling forms it had been several generations of the general public using octopi and when told that it was wrong they did what normally happens and
reformed their spellingdoubled down and called the people trying to change it back to the correct spelling in context a whole lotta words that could be best rendered down to the term 'nerds'.1
u/LiterallyRain 1d ago
Interesting! Cool backstory for the context. Certainly adds to the "ridiculousness" of Octopi. Then it can instead be said to be "An erroneous latin conjugation of a Greek word now used in the English language."
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u/dontsaymango 1d ago
Irregardless, I prolly ain't gonna eat sherbert anyways
All of these lovely "words" are in the dictionary as nonstandard variants like expresso..... I don't think that makes them valid words for more than verbal expression to be quite honest
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u/MechaGallade 1d ago
Yeah, I hate that people can just be wrong so many times that it's just acceptable now, and people say that "language evolves"
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u/Real-Back6481 16h ago
There's a big difference in being wrong, as in incorrect and unable to communicate, and language change through differences that spread over time.
If you're against language change, how far back do you want to roll things? You can start with the word "nice", which originally meant stupid or foolish.
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u/Sprungercles 1d ago
The issue is that if we keep catering to the uneducated we're not going to have any coherent language eventually. Expresso vs espresso isn't a big deal but it's a slippery slope into i tak hoe i fel it shud be sed + tha book say it rite so u kant stop meh.
There's nothing wrong with the word espresso, just call it the right thing. Or if you don't want to deal with a "foreign" word, just say coffee.
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u/Sythe5665 1d ago
This is exactly how languages evolve. Because of the "uneducated"
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u/Sprungercles 1d ago
If OP wants to present their argument to Webster's, and Oxford, and whoever else to get it changed I would fully support that. People mishearing a word because they aren't familiar with Italian isn't how it should be done.
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u/Beautiful_Product_48 1d ago
How is that catering to the uneducated lol? France, Portugal, and Spain typically use expresso more and English speaking countries have been using ex since for over 80 years. Also per wiki, "Italy uses the term espresso, substituting s for most x letters in Latin-root words, with the term deriving from the past participle of the Italian verb esprimere, itself derived from the Latin exprimere, which means 'to express', and refers to the process by which hot water is forced under pressure through ground coffee; x is not considered part of the standard Italian alphabet." So it doesn't sound uneducated whatsoever to exchange the letters and your slippery slope example kind of falls flat when the letter exchange has been happening for decades, especially considering where the term espresso originated from... Which had an X. Seems like a weird gripe to have with such an easily exchangeable word that's pronounced so similarly that I don't pay attention to the difference when people say either. This seems more akin to the scene in Inglorious Bastards with Fassbender being identified as not German due to the way he holds his fingers up for 3, I'm sure an Italian would notice someone saying expresso, and I'm sure they wouldn't give a shit unless they're suspicious of some covert operation
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u/Sprungercles 1d ago
I'm not talking about how other countries choose to organize their language. In the US we picked espresso as what's correct. That has nothing to do with what is correct in another place or another language.
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u/starsgoblind 1d ago
Why do you WANT to sound ignorant though? Just learn how it is generally used. Stop dumbing down language. We’re going backwards. Language matters.
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u/Junckopolo 1d ago
If Expresso is used more because enough people said it "wrong", then it's not wrong anymore.
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u/Lemonslide 1d ago
So you want to lose the Italian spelling, but still keep the very Italian -o suffix? This is just bastardising languages
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u/rotatingmonster 1d ago
We should call it squeezo
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u/Uruguayosiempre 2d ago
In spanish everyone says "Café Expreso" (expresso Coffee)
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u/Significant-Nebula64 1d ago
Some French say "express" instead and I find that one a lot less grating because it sounds more like an actual translation...
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u/leffrontee 2d ago
in french we just say expresso
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u/Cana05 1d ago
Italian here and i also run a bar in the summer, no it doesn't mean "pressed". In the case of coffe espresso means "fast" like "made at the moment". I have no idea what you are on about with the "pressed" thing but that's not what it means in italian.
Yeah we press the coffe before making an espresso but that's also what we do before making a cappuccino, an americano or a shaked ice coffee. That's just the standard thing you do before putting the portafilter on the group head.
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u/Cana05 1d ago
Also want to add, the thing about it being fast is totally true and we love when people ask for espresso because it takes basically no time. The rare times where people ask for an americano or a shaked ice coffee we know it will take a while (comoared to an expresso ofc)
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u/gxrphoto 1d ago
If an americano takes you significantly more time than an espresso, you’re doing it wrong.
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u/Cana05 1d ago
In italy we don't keep the huge ass americano cup on hand because it gets asked about once every 3 days, so the extra time is mostly going to take that
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u/RiskyRabbit 1d ago
What about expresso, do you press that?
Sorry just here to make Italian eye’s twitch
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u/Needless-To-Say 1d ago
Honest question, do you actually believe that or is the entire thing just tongue in cheek?
Definitely fits the sub either way.
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u/3rdtryatremembering 2d ago
“This is the way I learned it and I refuse to change”
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u/xmuskorx 2d ago
exact opposite of what I said.
I evaluated both and made decision. I learned espresso first if anything (if I recall Correctly)
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u/popsicle-physics 1d ago
and sure “Expresso” makes it sound like something that is fast, and that’s false.
It actually is true, and the rest isn't. Espresso was invented to make coffee quickly, to order, rather than having to wait for a whole pot to brew
So if you really wanted to properly translate it to English, just call it an "express". If you can add the "o" to make it sound fancy and Italian, you can swap the "x" too.
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u/1miguelcortes 2d ago
How about. Use either. Language is fluid. English is made up of terms of a bunch of different languages, some terms changed over time, some stay the same. As long as the listener understands you, you could call espresso "blobsprocto" and it wouldn't matter.
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u/xmuskorx 2d ago
exactly. both are ok.
people are here angry as fuck at expresso
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u/BunnyOppai 1d ago
Reddit in general is really bad about being super anal about language, lol. You'll see the same conversations when "could care less" or "literally" in a figurative sense are used.
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u/Hopeful-Flounder-203 1d ago
Let me axe you a question, I don't want 'splain it twice. Ackchually, never mind.
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u/xmuskorx 1d ago
all of those are coincidences.
express comes from the same latin root at espresso and means the same thing
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u/Alcardens 2d ago
Yes and then we can also change cappuccino to hoodino, and latte macchiato to milk stainato!
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u/Physical-Ad5343 1d ago
Actually the cappuccino should be "the-color-of-a-capuchin-monk‘s-robe-o", if you want to preserve the original meaning.
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u/xmuskorx 2d ago
espresso and express actually have the Latin root word "exprimere" (Italian just lost the K, while English preserved it).
your examples don't have that.
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u/One_Neighborhood2163 2d ago
expresso is the french word for expresso just pretend to be french and say expresso
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u/ImStuckInNameFactory 1d ago
It's not where the word originated, but what about expresso is not fast? The machines and accesories are optimized for high traffic restaurants and cafés, very quick to brew, clean, and brew another shot, a cup of expresso is small so you can drink it faster, and it makes you fast
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u/JePPeLit 1d ago
A) Both are in the dictionary now: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expresso
When "Expresso" shows up, it's often as a "nonstandard variant", which is the descriptivist name for "wrong". https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/expresso
B) Both are understandable. No one would get confused by what you mean when you ask for one, pretty much anywhere in the world.
This is true, but it's also true for a lot of pronunciations that are considered wrong.
C) Some may argue that “Espresso” is truer to the Italian language. But that’s only if we go by pronunciation/spelling. The meaning… is lost. Espresso means roughly “expressed” or “pressed out” in Italian.
Should we also call windows "windeyes"?
D) and sure “Expresso” makes it sound like something that is fast, and that’s false.
This just means we need to educate people on the meaning of “Expresso”: that it means “pressed through,” not “fast.”
Good luck educating people who can't even be taught to say the word correctly. Knowing the etymology isn't important unless you happen to be curious though.
Overall, I think it's fair to say that you shouldn't judge people for saying it, but to say it's not any worse is just wrong unless you outright just reject the concept of a variant being worse than another one.
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u/EmergencyWild 1d ago
But that’s only if we go by pronunciation/spelling.
We're talking about spelling, so I feel like considering the spelling is actually quite important. If you want to use the italian name, keep the spelling and pronunciation. If you want to use an english term, just come up with one, IDK call an espresso a swifty or something – I don't think that's used for anything else yet – instead of trying to retroactively justify someone mishearing the word.
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u/CylixrDoesStuff 1d ago
The second I found out its not pronounced expresso I switched to espresso
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u/jordanbtucker 1d ago
If you want to educate people and what expresso and espresso means, you should probably learn that yourself first.
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u/EscapeSeventySeven 2d ago
Upvoted.
I’ll be dead in the ground before I recognize Missouri.
I mean say X press O
It’s the Lieberry of beverages. You sound like uncultured swine if you say it that way.
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u/Logical_Bake_3108 2d ago
There's nothing that annoys me more then people using words incorrectly. People really need to be pacific in order to say convey their meanings in an affective way.
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u/xmuskorx 2d ago
Lol, well it's not incorrect in this case. It's a variant. maybe even a superior one.
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u/friendlysaxoffender 2d ago
It’s not a variant though it’s wrong. It’s enough people being wrong that they have an impact on everyone. That doesn’t make it correct, it just means more people are being confidently wrong.
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u/xmuskorx 2d ago
It’s not a variant
it's in the dictionary. lol.
That doesn’t make it correct
it does. Lol.
but in this case it's also correct for etymological reasons. It's the Italian that lost "k" from the common latin root.
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u/EmpressLanFan 2d ago
I actually agree with you lol. Also expresso is how you say it in Portuguese, and the first good “espresso” I ever had in my life was in Porto, so in my mind it is always expresso
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u/MajorTurn6890 2d ago
Dude, enough with the copium. Expresso is wrong and people who can't be bothered to say it the right way are either stupid or lazy
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u/liberterrorism 2d ago
And people who think especially is pronounced eck-specially.
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u/AgnesBand 2d ago
Hey I somewhat disagree but I like the etymological argument. English has a long history of loaning words and how that has been done has never been consistent. Sometimes words are loaned in a completely corrupted way, sometimes they're loaned and they retain all the features of their spelling and etymology, and sometimes they're loaned and then grammaticists go back and reintroduce archaic spellings to better indicate the etymology of the word. It's definitely a plausible position to say hey, one way of loaning this word is to retain the meaning of the Italian word by spelling it more similarly to its English counterpart.
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u/Two_wheels_2112 2d ago
I don't like the sound of "expresso" but that's how it was written on every menu I saw in France last week.
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u/SnooHobbies5684 2d ago
That's because you were in France last week, where they speak French.
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u/Two_wheels_2112 2d ago
Just saying that it isn't only classless North Americans that call it expresso, contrary to widely held opinion.
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u/Unifects 2d ago
I agree but not with your explanation. Expresso is the French, espresso is the Italian. They are synonyms and therefore neither is more wrong than the other.
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u/Freign 2d ago
I wish you consarned kids would put 10% or less of this energy into learning things from primary sources or GASP experience
it's harsh to see this self-demeaning argument appearing more and more. Become Literate. YEESH. Stop letting the pedophile billionaires whittle you down to a helpless nub. Reclaim your humanity. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa. 🌞🫀
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u/Separate-Guitar 2d ago
You're right, there is a lot of pretentiousness in all of this. That said, expresso just sounds terrible though.
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u/LordAmras 1d ago
That's just been factually erong not just being the 10 dentist. It's like saying I believe the earth is flat. Ok...
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u/BextoMooseYT 1d ago
Idk I just think "espresso" sounds better, tho tbf it being more 'correct' probably plays into that. I dunno, I know language isn't just what's in the dictionary, it's a sense of understanding. Buuuut at the same time, there's gotta be a line somewhere, right? Eye doughnt wahnt two tok lyek fis awl da tieym. Idk, I'm almost definitely inconsistent with what I am and am not fine with, with "expresso" being in the latter, but honestly in a case like this, I don't think that's too egregious. English is a mix of rules and vibes, and frankly I believe in my emotions and subconscious enough to generally be ok with my feelings on it
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u/Kyle81020 1d ago
People saying expresso isn’t as annoying as people calling a cafe latte a latte. Especially when the people who are correcting others who say expresso do it.
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u/gon0where 1d ago
That's certainly an opinion. But to join the other Italians in the thread: espresso means fast. It's the coffee we traditionally have at the bar, standing up, because it's meant to be quick.
So maybe educate yourself before trying to educate others, you know
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u/upthedips 1d ago
I don't know if it still exists but Expresso used to be the brand name of a gas station coffee machine.
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u/beets_or_turnips 1d ago
derisively sips a warm cup of au jus
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u/xmuskorx 1d ago
ahh.... juice
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u/beets_or_turnips 1d ago
More like "ahhh... with juice"
Yeah, deciding right and wrong about what to call these things is literally a popularity contest. I personally find "au jus" as an English noun ridiculous but I have to accept that I can't change it now that it's caught on. Likewise with expresso/espresso. It's pretty arbitrary and depends on the whims of sociolinguistic trends, which nobody controls. Best to step back and try to be curious about how and why that happens.
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u/givemethebat1 2d ago
By that logic, you could argue that they should stop calling it a Grande on the Starbucks menu because it just means “grand” in English.
That’s just not how it works. Pronunciation is not prescriptive, it’s descriptive. Same with “epitome”, eventually the alternative pronunciation may be considered correct but it’s still not how it was meant to be pronounced.
Expresso makes sense when you’re a kid and haven’t learned how the word is pronounced, but it’s embarrassing as an adult.
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u/GrandFleshMelder 2d ago
Descriptivists don’t believe a word is “meant” to be pronounced any way at all.
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u/xmuskorx 2d ago
well people already say both. it's even in the dictionary.
so descriptivism support me...
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u/Minibootz_Longsocks 2d ago
Buncha pretentious dicks in the comments. All that matters is if the meaning gets across so who cares.
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u/Wonderful_Discount59 1d ago
To add: the word (but not the drink, obviously) comes from Latin, where it spelled with an x (exprimere).
In English, words derived from this are spelled with an x.
In most Romance languages, words derived from this are also spelled with an x.
Whether you are talking about the drink, or "express" in the sense of pressed out, or express in the sense of fast.
Italian is unusual in that it uses an s rather than x.
Unless one is also going to complain about the French and Spanish spelling it with an x, why complain about English speakers doing it?
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u/SlapHappyDude 2d ago
Compared to people misusing literally or "I could care less", I don't really care about minor mispronunciations.
I also work with a lot of ESL folks. As long as I understand you I don't mind if a few words are pronounced oddly.
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u/GrandFleshMelder 2d ago edited 2d ago
“Expresso” is fine not because it captures the meaning better, but because it’s a word in our language, not just Italian, and we don’t have to follow Italian conventions out of some obligation. “Es” is an awkward initial articulation for English speakers, so pronouncing it in a more natural way should be perfectly fine.
Yes, I believe this extends to any word too. Even if a divergent spelling or pronunciation irritates me, I can recognize that feeling is irrational.
Edit: So another person won’t comment saying I’m wrong, the problem with espresso is not that it has an es sound specifically, but that it isn’t stressed. If it were ES-presso it would articulate just fine, but es-PRE-so is a little more awkward in English. Not impossible or even hard to say, but still a bit off.
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u/zxjams 2d ago
Escrow, Esther, essence, escort? Are those words especially awkward to say for English speakers?
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u/tridon74 2d ago
In what world is es- hard to pronounce? Do you also think especially or establish are awkward to say?
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u/Significant-Nebula64 1d ago
Huh, I actually find the exp... combo quite a bit more awkward when I think about it! Like, not that I'd have issues with it, I'm obviously used to it from "express" but purely... anatomically by lip movement?
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u/NoodleyP 2d ago
It sounds like a brand of espresso marketed for it’s caffeine content
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u/Baron_Bearclaw 2d ago
I'm sorry you're getting teased for saying it wrong for a long time. Just say it the right way and move on. It's not a big deal, buddy.
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u/xmuskorx 2d ago
Expresso is equally right to espresso for reasons I explained.
I love to see snooty people seethe.
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u/Key-Shift5076 2d ago
I’m blaming Sabrina Carpenter for this.
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u/Greggs-the-bakers 1d ago
Doesnt she say espresso in the song though?
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u/Key-Shift5076 1d ago
Yes, it was clearly interpreted as a taunt by OP and thus, we were forced to read the rant.
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u/qualityvote2 2d ago edited 19h ago
u/xmuskorx, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...