r/Switzerland • u/GetOutBasel Switzerland • 2d ago
Is it more common to find Swiss-Germans that speak fluent french, than Swiss-French who speak fluent german?
Yes, it's rare in both regions to find someone who speaks another swiss language fluenty, except maybe swiss kids with parents from Italy who speak italian at home since the italian diaspora in switzerland is huge.
Nowadays most people speak English and that holds true everywhere in Switzerland (can't really speak about Ticino but someone from there could confirm).
But I still notice that when in Bern, Biel, Lausanne or Fribourg, or even Basel, or Valais, it's more likely to find Swiss-Germans who speak fluent french than Swiss-French who speak fluent german. Do you also notice this? If so, why? Is it because French is a more international language than german, so swiss-german are more likely to learn it?
But still, german is important in Switzerland, so I would guess Swiss-French also have an incentive to learn german, but that's not what I observe when I am in Fribourg, Lausanne, or even Biel/bienne where i hear much more french spoken in a german accent, than german spoken in a french accent
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u/Nice-Mess5029 2d ago edited 2d ago
Idk man technically there are more swiss-german than romands, so you are bound to naturally find this trend. Per capita I wouldn't know, but here's a shout out to the tessinese bros and sis who are learning two extra languages just to fit in but are never recognized.
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u/GetOutBasel Switzerland 2d ago
True, Ticinesi are polyglots and often seem to speak both french and german, alongside English. I noticed this.
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u/StaaaX11 Ticino 1d ago
Ticinese here studying in Lausanne. Learned french and german at school, also I'm half polish...my brain crashes when I have to switch between all these languages lol
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u/supermarkio- 2d ago
If you’re from the Romandie and you learn high German, that’s not what the Swiss Germans typically speak. But it is the official language.
Anecdotal, I know, but I know only one native Swiss French speaker who speaks Swiss German. And he lives in Biel. I know many Swiss Germans that speak far better French than I.
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u/Coco_JuTo St. Gallen 2d ago
Now you "know" 2 of us. If I present you a couple work colleagues who happen to also come from Jura and live in the greater Zurich area, then there's a bunch of us. When a french speaker moves to the german speaking part, we move deep.
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u/flonobaggins 2d ago
Indeed, so that you’re forced to practice Swiss German and not stay glued with the other romands who are dying to speak French again.
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u/defical4 2d ago
Well, I‘m just referring to the Swiss German and French part, not the Italian and Ticinese one.
We live in the Seeland area, my wife and I grew up in Bern city. We both speak French fluently (C2) and we love interactions with the Romands speaking French. And no, we both don‘t have a French or bilingual family.
In my opinion, the reason why it‘s more common that Swiss Germans (try to) speak French than the other way around is:
the Romands learn standard German at school. Then they visit Zurich/Brig/ Bern/ Lucerne/Zug…, speak standard German and they often times get an answer in dialect which they don‘t understand. That’s frustrating and may stop even trying to learn to speak the language fluently.
As the majority, it’s looked down upon using your own (Swiss) German language if you interact with a Romand, as long as he/she is not proficient in German. At least that’s what I was taught when I was a kid and that’s still my opinion.
I may be wrong, but that’s my take on it.
Ps: I work in Biel/Bienne and whenever I go to a shop, I just use the language that is spoken there. And I look at the signs (is it written in French or German) if I am the one initiating a conversation or if I order something.
Hope that helps!
By the way: what is your background? Were you born and raised in Switzerland? In which area do you live? No offense intended, I‘m just curious.
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u/i_like__bananas 2d ago
I have no doubt that swiss germans are more fluent in the other language than romands. The difference shocked me during my military service.
Im a swiss german who grew up in JU and apart from the hate for the swiss germans, it's mainly the school program that sucks. Even those who were interested in german didn't learn much in 6 years berceuse it's so fixated on that stupid german grammar. What does correct grammar matter if the dude cant speak more than two sentences?
Other point is swiss german itself, impossible to understand if you speak normal german. The only persons I know that learned german did the army longer term or worked in Fribourg or Bienne.
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u/Doldenbluetler 23h ago
The school program (Lehrplan 21 and Rahmenlehrplan für Maturitätsschulen) doesn't really put a lot of focus on grammar. That is on the teachers.
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u/Willing_File5104 2d ago
According to BFS, 15% of the population in the German speaking part (including foreign residents) regularly use French. In contrast 15.8% of the population in the French speaking part use German. So percentage wise, it seems to be more or less the same.
Now, of course this is not exacly the numbers asked for, but I guess a robust hint.
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u/Coco_JuTo St. Gallen 2d ago
Honestly, there is one point I didn't see mentioned while other commentors were pretty on point:
The way french speakers get horrible teachers...and especially in terms of languages, it's deadly.
The pedagogy (or lack there of) is very different from what I experienced going to school in both the northwest and the east and the wwstern teachers disgusted me from english. Like no mistake is tolerated from people who either don't speak the language or are natives but can't explain how to use grammar stuff...and then put on top the frustration of not being able to get what a bunch of german speaker say, especially in the Bern area, and the cocktail is perfect to discourage learning and using the language.
But the "no tolerance for mistakes" is definitely something very french...
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u/fryxharry 1d ago
I noticed this as well. Language teaching is also not good in the german speaking part, but the school system in romandie is absolutely terrible at teaching languages.
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u/Doldenbluetler 23h ago
Like no mistake is tolerated from people who either don't speak the language or are natives
As a Swiss German I have never been insulted for my German as much as in the Romandie. And I didn't even utter a word in German but only spoke French to these people. I have a Masters in German philology. :D
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u/Ok-Concentrate-7585 21h ago
What do you mean? What would happen there?
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u/Doldenbluetler 17h ago
"We would be interested in hiring a few Swiss instead of Germans even if your German is worse."
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u/Ok-Concentrate-7585 15h ago
That statement is at the same time discriminatory towards Swiss-Germans (for the language) and towards non-Swiss (the nationality being a criterium in the employment decision). Fantastic
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u/ChezDudu Schwyz 2d ago edited 1d ago
The German-speaking Swiss massively underestimate their ability to speak French and generally overestimate their ability to speak English. It’s a shame when a Romand and a Swiss German end up speaking bad English to each other.
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u/BrilliantKing1200 2d ago
I work in both Romandie and Zürich. My experience: very few romandie speak German and very few Swiss Germans speak French. But they communicate with each other in English.
Funny how I am the expat and speak German and French. 😂
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u/IncreaseRemarkable99 2d ago
I'm from the french part personally and I feel like German has quite a bad reputation, sounding "harsh", "ugly" and being difficult to learn, at least when I was in school. And also is quite frustrating to learn Hochdeutsch in school for like 8 years in school and not understanding a single word when you hear swiss german
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u/NightmareWokeUp 2d ago
You have a lot of both in border cities/regions, but otherwise yes i agree. Having said that i dont know too many swiss germans that speak more than basic french tbh
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u/Blackbird_1986 Basel-Landschaft 2d ago
Most people in the romandie learn high german in school. So people from Geneva or Vaud usually speak high german and not swiss german.
On places which are bilingue like Jura, Biel, Fribourg or the Alsace (yeah I know this is French territory) most people speak french and swiss german.
Usually people from the non-german parts are better in german than the german-speaking people are in French. 😉
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u/VoidDuck Valais/Wallis 2d ago
Jura is not bilingual. Also, Fribourg (city) is not really bilingual either: most French speakers in Fribourg don't speak Swiss German, it's typically native German speakers which are bilingual there because of their minority status (daily business is done in French there, it's not like Biel/Bienne where you can use both languages randomly).
Usually people from the non-german parts are better in german than the german-speaking people are in French.
That's untrue in cantons FR and VS where the German-speaking minorities tend to be better at French than the French-speaking majorities are at German. Even more so among older generations. Things are of course different in other parts of Switzerland and I wouldn't be surprised if people in Neuchâtel speak better German than people in Schaffhausen speak French.
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u/Final_Influence_2367 1d ago
Jura is by definition bilingual as Ederswiler is German speaking
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u/VoidDuck Valais/Wallis 1d ago
Yeah if you want, but a single municipality of 111 inhabitants is more of an anecdotal detail than anything else ;) Cantonal administration and politics work only in French, unlike real bilingual cantons FR, BE and VS.
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u/ming1976 1d ago
For such a rich country, I feel we have an antiquated approach to language education. It's rarely taught as a living tool of communication, and more as just another subject at school.
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u/Doldenbluetler 22h ago
It's not just education but also the mentality outside of school. I've been a German as a foreign language teacher and the best lessons cannot make up for someone completely refusing to use the language outside of the classroom.
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u/ming1976 20h ago
I agree with you to a certain extent...but I do feel that this attitude is reinforced by the antiquated approach to language teaching.
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u/fryxharry 1d ago
My experience is the same, almost all bilingual people are native german speakers. But this seems to be a universal problem, even in france. French native speakers seem to have a huge issue with learning other languages.
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u/its_going_down_ 2d ago
Yes, there are definitely more Swiss-Germans speaking fluent French than Romands speaking German. It's because the Swiss-Germans are secretly much more open-minded and acommodating. There are also more Romands that openly dislike people from the Swiss-German part than the other way around.
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u/swtimmer 2d ago
Same "problem" in Belgium. For some reason, the francophone sphere is immune to globalization.
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u/No-Replac-0789 2d ago
What do you mean? They only speak French?
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u/swtimmer 2d ago
Not only that, but it is far more expansive and inclusive. There is no judgment here; however, francophone territory appears largely French alone.
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u/evonammon 1d ago
It is more common that Swiss Romands speak more English, especially when under 40.
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u/frank_schweiz 1d ago
It might probably still be the old thing about the french speaking people being very proud of their own language. When you are in the french speaking part of switzerland it's even still quite common that they use some "swiss" words like "huitante" instead of "quatre-vingts" which is "80" in France. Swiss germans on the other hand are quite pragmatic in this - they even tend to switch to high german when talking to somebody from germany in switzerland - so if ever they can then they will speak french but obviously many simply can't speak it that well.
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u/morgulbrut Zütsi im Zigerschlitz 1d ago
Probably, yes. Because statistics. Around 60% speak German and around 20% speak French.
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u/pcrail-2 23h ago
Its true. There are two reasons for this: a) it is simpler to learn French then German b) the French guys learn standard German what is not spoken on the street in the German part. Furthermore you have to know that many Romans now indeed German but they pretend do not knowing it till you speak a few words in French. btw: I‘m Swiss German, but speak French fluently as well as some other languages.
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u/Rabenraben 2d ago
Yes it's true but there is a simple reason, the german they hear around them is not the same they learn in school. Learning a language under such conditions is much harder.