Let me preface this by saying that I like the systems I see in Curseborne, and the character types available. It seems like a pretty strong game and I can't wait to try it with my group. But the setting itself feels a bit thin to me.

I read through Chapter One and skimmed through the rest, but it seems like the setting essentially narrows down to "curses are real". This is repeated ad nauseam through the entire book, but little else seems to be. I don't even have a strong idea of what drives the different types of Accursed to work together, or what their greater goals would be.

I tried to avoid directly comparing it to Chronicles of Darkness as I read through, but honestly couldn't help myself. And my main thought was that compared to the settings established for that game, Curseborne feels like it needs a bit more work in that regard. With the CoD game lines, you knew what the tone and goals were supposed to be. Vampire is a game of politics. Demon is a spy thriller. Promethean is about becoming human and establishing your identity. Changeling is about finding and protecting your new family. Mage is Indiana Jones vs. Cthulhu. These are all very basic and reductive descriptions of the settings and themes, but the fact that they CAN be boiled down thusly shows how well those settings were established and how immediately clear it is what kind of stories best fit them.

I don't know how to boil down Curseborne, however. Aside from "Curses are real, and you're cursed," there seems to be very, very, very little guidance on what your characters are supposed to be doing and why. Perhaps this is intentional, perhaps I'm alone in disliking this, perhaps I just need to read things through again. There's every chance this is just a "me" problem. But I would love for Curseborne to get a book STRICTLY focused on better establishing the setting and giving clearer direction on what kind of world and stories these curses and characters exist in, and why they do what they do.

(And of course, if this book is already in the process of being developed and is flying under my radar, please tell me so I know to pick it up!)

Curseborne backed with 3,017 backers. I'm curious to see who backed it but haven't played it yet and why.

I know a few people who backed that are just waiting on the physical traditional print to arrive. One of my players recently got her Print on Demand version which made me jealous 😅.

My best guesses for why people might not be playing even though they backed are:

* Backed it out of curiosity, but didn't get into it as much as they thought.

* Waiting on the physical book to arrive.

* Can't find players.

* Can't find a GM willing to run it.

* Currently running something else, but you'll play it when you can.

Any other reasons?

This is super long and detailed, and a bit ranty though I try to make it concrete and specific, so its actionable. I don't use reddit a lot so if this is a platform/social faux pas, I'm sorry. I just didn't know how else to share this.

I just need someone at Onyx or the people who made Curseborne (CB) to see this and understand that they have some important work to do to make Storypath Ultra (SPU) and CB accessible to new people who haven't been using the system or been with them for the whole ride. Because the Curse of Knowledge is really making this a terrible experience to get in on (even for someone who loves RPGs, and the more complex the better, and has been using Storyteller since the 90s).

This is both problems with the graphic design choices, and accessibility, as well as how the content is organized and explained.

If this gets deleted, this gets deleted, I guess.

--------------

Onyx is not a fly by night operation, but when I opened the CB and SPU manuals -- it definitely didn't feel like that's the case. On the surface, SPU 'looks' fine. It's a bit dated in it's design choices, but... it works. All the text is legible, and passes 508 compliance. Even if the thin font on green background can feel hard when there is a lot of text all together.

For Curseborn... the Ashcan edition is actually the better of the two manuals. In a bunch of ways.
Way #1, its graphically cleaner. It's all just black, dark gray and white and VERY easy to read. The It feels a bit like old WoD/WW content.
Way #2... it is less massive (only 68 pages) and actually describes important terms better than the SPU and the CB books... That's tragic. And all the extra specific CB content which is good to know after you get how to do things... should go AFTER all the stuff in Ashcan, not before (Which is how the main book organizes it...)

As far as CB's design, the predominant motif is this cursed edging and it is all over the other the manual.

When this design is used on the edges away from text, I get that it feels modern in some ways, and cool. And that's fine. The issue is how this is created on a technical level, and how this cursed style is used in other areas of the book that INCLUDE text.

This is hard to explain, to people who don't work with digital files a lot, but I think it's important to be said.

Normally, when someone is compiling a file for print media, as long as it "looks good", and the printer can use the files they receive to print the book in a way that the designers intended, everything is hunky dory (even if it's messy on the back end, that doesn't matter.) When you are sharing a digital copy of your work, and people have to interact with it digitally, you have to be a little tidier about how you compile your files.

Normally, to save file layering complexity, a final image for the "background" of a page, if there is one, is created in an art program, for example, and exported as a single image that contains all of the information meant to be on that image, that isn't actual text. Sometimes, in order for text to smartly interact with other that share space with the text, the image is then put on the 'same layer' as the text, above the background image.

Example - a Background only image vs a background image with some visual spacing elements baked into it. This is from the CB character sheet. Notice, all the text and other images are not included in these.

In the released version of the character sheet, every single thing you seen in both of these images (including the cursed edging) is a separate component of the PDF. The cursed edging is actually 4 separate components.

As you can see, the edges are independent pieces, separate from the white background. And that feels weird... even in the "how to make a character" video that AwkwardGM made for the system (link takes you to a second or two before this happens in the video), as he clicks on the PDF just to move the page or to click on a box/dot, he keeps clicking and selecting the background components... that's NOT typical for well formatted digital documents.

From what I have been able to find out, whoever put this file together (and the CG manual) did a lot of the graphical effects and layer IN the digital file they released to the public. Instead of following the advice above, and compressing them into a single background image file.

If these images were Vector, and you wanted to use a file to print a document into physical media, that's totally fine. But these cursed edges are PNGs a non vector file format, so adding them separately is just not the best idea and can create compliance issues with some users.

I exported the background with all the visual components baked into the image, and then repaired my own copy of the character sheet to solve for this problem. Now the background is one file/component, and when you try to interact with the rest of the sheet, you don't get those weird selection boxes.

But this same issue is present all over the CB manual.

The background for most of these pages looks and works fine, similar to SPU. But the designer who put the book together created a large image, and then stretched it out over each page of the book. That image is not the size of the page, but 2x wide.

But the real terror is the box at the bottom of that page. That's created using the same "cursed" motif, overlaid on a dark box, with some layering effects added in the digital file, with white text on top.

The hex value accessibility scores for white on black and white on cool grey are both really good. But the combination makes it hard to read, because there is a lot of information graphically to process and read above.

Yes, this is very moody, but it's also hard to read, and even though I don't have disability issues in visual processing, the eye strain caused by this design option makes it very hard to read.

This is done in other ways in different pages too. They have "bold, thin white text over graphical images that change colors throughout" as well.

It technically passes muster, but the text is italicized, serif and thin, making it hard to read.
I want to make clear, the ratio of 7:1 is the BARE MINIMUM. None of the text has a contrast higher than an 8, though some get close to it (above). And that is assuming that the text will be 11-12pt on average to count for having this readability/contrast ratio score.

The US normal text standards for digital documents states:

The text in this book ranges from 9pt (mostly 9.5) to 12pt (for some headings). It is also preferred that the text is not "italic" or "oblique". So assume that the actual contrast ratio is lower than that and does not meet US 508 digital document compliance.

When the text is italic, and small over complex backgrounds, it just makes it hard for the eyes to want to read it, and they keep skipping these notes, throughout.

As the book goes on, more compliance issues occur. Though the issue is largely poor readability and lack of compression/baking down of visual components that are not text.

----

Stepping beyond technical readability, there is a lot of issues in this document with "The Curse of Knowledge" as far as the actual content goes.

The reason I even wrote all of this is because when I got excited and purchased the book, and started reading it... it felt impossible to absorb. I'm going to move past my own personal taste as it relates to the ... angsty mood and writing choices for the non-mechanical content of the manual. That's personal preference, and I understand what the writers/designers were going for.

The organization of the book feels a little backwards to me, and some kind of "definition of terms" closer to the beginning would be very helpful for any "important terms" that are going to be mentioned 16,000 times, throughout the explanations of all the different powers, abilities, mechanics, checks, etc.

Renegade's V5 Core Rulebook spends 12 pages (with a lot of images), at the beginning of the book explaining the general concepts of the world. The next 14 pages go into core details about essential ideas like the Jyhad, the Outlooks of different era vampires, different sects, and the last 4 pages are just "definitions of important terms" that people reading the book will see used over and over in the rest of the text. (A lot of these terms are NOT used in the preceding 26 pages, without some kind of context around those words and terms).

CB's Index is better, and more complete... but, they spent. 4 pages explaining the basic idea, that's helpful. Then another 20 pages going into extensive but not super mechanical detail about the world, and the different curse archetypes.

It is then followed up by 120 pages that go into even MORE extensive detail about each of the cursed types and subtypes... There is NO SINGLE LIST of important keywords, terms, or their relevant definitions. 0. The word "definition" is not found anywhere in the text.

Let me give you an example of how bad this is. (This is the thing that really drove me crazy and started my to notice all these other things).

I was reading the book, I skimmed a bunch of the chapter 1-2 content, because I was looking to understand the system, and the words being used with importance throughout the text. This was 146 pages, 8-154 -- the book is 380 pages long.

The book does NOT discuss mechanics until page 176, another 22 pages later... Because Chapter 3 focuses on even more lore/world building... this is equivalent to V5's "essential knowledge" chapter (14 pages). This chapter is 18 more pages of "world knowledge".

Chapter 4... 176-219 is "Storypath Ultra" -- how to play the game. The SPU core rulebook is 257 pages. Sections of it are provided verbatim in CU. Ok... this is not helping me. Maybe making a character will help me understand.

I go back to the Hungry, figuring I'll make a Vamp-like, since I know VtM the best. I am greeted with this, which heads every unique cursed section. This makes me nervous. Is your book so poorly organized that I need this roadmap to read it?

I have no idea what any of that stuff means... Ok.. so Hungry System... that's like feeding right? I skim that, terms mentioned are offered in red on white recommendations to go see definitions in another page... why was it not explained here?

I see this word... Integrity. I've seen this sprinkled all over...

If blood is given freely, no rolls are required. Drinking blood from a conscious, resisting human typically requires a Close Combat + Might or Persuasion + Manipulation action (never as part of a mixed action), against the target’s Defense or Integrity. Success means the Hungry consumes blood from their victim and gives them the Drained status effect.

I understand what defense is... maybe its like soak, or a skill... but what is Integrity? I search the document.

So this is the second time in the whole book this term is ever mentioned... first time was in the Dead section... similarly, as a target's something, used to 'get through'. Whatever that means.

Ok, I haven't seen a list of terms, so I'm going to go to the last one, that will be in the index, and it will tell me where to look.

"... see... skills..." Okay, so it's a skill, nice. Let me go look..."

Okay... maybe its on pg 183, where the overall Skills concepts are mentioned...
Nope... not 184... not 185... ah here, 187 (16th time the term is mentioned)

In cases where no roll is called for from the resistor, either the effect is automatic on the initiator’s success, or the resistor’s Defense or Integrity is used to calculate the roll’s difficulty. The status effect, success, or the resistor’s Defense or Integrity is used to calculate the roll’s difficulty. The status effect, area effect, or special ability will state which is the case.

Okay... that's almost exactly what it said in the Hungry area...

Next mention, "At a difficulty of their integrity"... ok keep searching... INFLUENCE section!

Integrity (which serves as the SOCIAL DEFENSE) ok!!! This is something!!!
"against a difficulty set by the target’s Integrity"... what?
Next page... INTEGRITY TRICKS ... What are TRICKS?!
"Players can purchase [the below] with hits on their integrity action" what's an Integrity action?!

Below that
When a character is targeted by an influence action, she may take a reflexive integrity action using Resolve or Composure (no Skill is added). The difficulty of a integrity action is 0**, unless specified otherwise. Start at Integrity 1, then each hit on the integrity action can be used to purchase Integrity Tricks. After she sets her Integrity, the aggressor rolls for their influence action.**

What?! Ok... so the default value is 0. But what is it?! The terms "Integrity action" appear 7 times, in the text. Mostly under "special powers" that tell you to do one. I still have no idea what an Integrity action is, or how you calculate (as a defender) what that value is... beyond "0/1" that is mentioned once, in the middle of a TON of text that is not helpful.

I open the STU book... maybe this is better defined there. I search Integrity Action (4 mentions), Integrity (84 mentions). "Ok this is super important" I think.

Integrity has its own header! NICE

A character’s starting Integrity against an incoming attack is always at least 1. When a character wants to resist influence, she may take a reflexive action using Resolve or Composure (no Skill is added). The difficulty is 0 unless specified otherwise.

Ok. Cool. And it reaffirms "This is social defense"

Gain +1 Integrity, and each hit garnered from an integrity action can be used to purchase Integrity Tricks.

Ok, what do I do with the integrity? Once I get it..

After she sets her Integrity, the character initiating the influence uses an appropriate Skill + Attribute depending on what he wants to accomplish. Characters also have attitudes and bonds which may act as Enhancement toward their influence or Integrity actions.
The Storyguide does not roll integrity actions for adversaries. Instead, they have a set Integrity and their reactive powers may apply a Complication as a reaction to an influence action against them.

Ok, I feel dumb. I can do GURPS... and I don't get his. And I have go to go the MAIN rulebook for SPU to even get THIS far... This is the Curse of Knowledge at its worst.

So while writing this, I was looking at the Ashcan book for CB. Just, last hope....

Guess what. It defines integrity and influence actions PERFECTLY. And quickly.

Influencing someone is an opposed action ... character initiating the influence uses an appropriate Skill + Attribute depending on what he wants to accomplish
... defender uses Resolve or Composure to determine their integrity...
It's always at least 1.

<Implied knowledge> If for some reason, those attributes are all 0, or they have negative modifiers, the SMALLEST integrity is 1. Since the ST doesn't roll, this means that the challenging PC has to roll at least 1 success (or more if the composure/resolve is higher than 1).

This is terrible. The fact that the "Free quickstart Guide" is the only place where this makes any sense.
I feel deeply annoyed and disappointed at this book/system, and I was so excited about it.

Hopefully this feedback gets back to someone, and they can fix it for a future printing (or a digital re-release or something). I can happily offer my updated PDF of the character sheet so future users can benefit.

I absolutely love everything OnyxPath did with the World of Darkness (transforming to Chronicles of Darkness). It's very sad that we likely won't ever get any more *official* books for the various lines.

But I don't want to go into Curseborne thinking it's just "new version of WoD/CoD". I want to look at it as it's own thing.

So what's cool about it? What drew you to it (aside from the urban horror setting)? and what are your favorite aspects of it?

I'd like to preface this by saying only up to the descriptions of each lineage in the first chapter of Core Book. I know I should probably finish reading before asking this question. But I'm a bit impatient. And I do feel a self conscious asking it. So based on my interpretation of what I heard the Fea would be playable in later supplements. And based on said interpretations I thought this supplement they would be introduced to would be covenant, But there seems to be five new playable families that are evil (or eviler) versions of the lineages which are heavily tied to the Fea but are not them. And from what I understand about what I heard about Curseborne Covenant I haven't heard any anything about playable Fea. So my question is Are the Fae going to be playable?

Curseborne Covenant introduces a new group for the characters to ally themselves with: the conspiracy. These formidable factions eat away at the fabric of Accursed community, a secret wrapped within a secret. They’re a way for elder Accursed to while away the years, grow their own powerbase, control the “lesser” Accursed, and spread their own particular brand of curse. While some conspiracies have lofty goals, others are decidedly less altruistic in their pursuits. The rest, well, they make the others seem like saints by comparison.

Conspiracies are central to Curseborne Covenant, and each one represents a mystery deeper than any the world of Curseborne has explored so far. Each conspiracy acts as both a moral imperative and a social group for a character to attach themselves to. By pursuing these routes, the characters get to explore their own rapidly expanding worldview and start pulling the strings themselves. Doing so allows them to unlock the real power behind their curse, placing them into a whole new level.

HEad over to Kickstarter and back Curseborne Covenant!

I have met a few people who are waiting for it to get more support but I'm curious what other people are waiting for.

Since Tangled Webs was released today I've been wondering how good is it?

In which the Gentleman Gamer delves into one of the most vile conspiracies in Curseborne Covenant.

I posted the last two teasers for Curseborne: Covenant on Onyx Path discord since no one else was doing that and I thought I should post it here Also

Follow the Moth to be notified when the Kickstarter goes live! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/curseborne-covenant

Follow the Moth to be notified when the Kickstarter goes live! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/curseborne-covenant

In which the Gentleman Gamer continues delving into the depths of Junction City.

A preview of one of our horrifying new conspiracies from Curseborne Covenant!

In which the Gentleman Gamer dives into the Nest family of wererats from Curseborne.

So as the title says, what's the thematic and tone differences between Curseborne and World/Chronicles of Darkness?

To summarise my experience with WoD and CoD; I'm not super invested in them but I know a lot of people who are and I have flicked through the Tvtropes pafe to try and better understand it, I've also played in a Werewolf the Forsaken campaign that had several different splat (mummy, vampire, changling and a mage(as a treat)). I know roughly what each splat's deal is and the general theme differences between WoD and CoD (WoD is darker and more focused on meta-plot, CoD is (relatively) lighter and less world defining meta plots). As a general rule I'm more of an Exalted fan than WoD/CoD.

The main thing I'm aware of in Curseborne is there is a lot more inter-splat interaction but that's most of my knowledge on the game.

I have started creating a summary webpage for Curseborne. Its intended as a reference for use at the game table, because I honestly struggle with the book.

I attempted to separate out Lore from Rules.

I have just done the Dead so far, and I'd like comments from the community for anything I have left out or got wrong before I move onto the other Lineages.

I got frustrated with new players having to teleport around the book to complete character creation, so I figure a single top-to-bottom flowchart in a single flow will be easier.

Yes, AI was used to create this.

So as told these trails were released before but they weren't said to be connected to Curseborne: Covenant. So they're being rereleased with the connection confirmed.

I wonder what that symbol at the end is?

I'm coming up with a list of Rituals to make.

A few I can think of:

* SHALLOW Hal - Cursed to see only people's inner beauty.

* What Women Want - Guy is cursed to hear the thoughts of women.

* Freaky Friday - Cursed to body swap.

* Ted - Inanimate object brought to life.

* Stranger than Fiction - Cursed to hear your life's narrator.

* 13 going on 30/Big - Cursed to experience life as your older self.

* JUMANJI - Cursed board game.

* Child's Play/Talking Tina - Cursed doll.

* Oculus - Cursed Mirror.

For those who have played as one how did it go?

Currently making a map for my Curseborne chronicle in Paris. I use the map in Foundry and I'm trying to make each family icon to be activated, highlighting their influence areas. Still in progress. (And due to the heatwave in France, my poor pc is melting from all the layers used in Krita ... ) Of course, I've only put the relevant major families, the absent ones being outliers in my chronicles