Today I learned the etiquette of the need / greed mechanics on group looting.

That's right, I've been playing the beta for over a week now and had no idea how the system actually works.

As a new WOW player, I thought "Greed" was a bad thing. I had actually never pressed it because I thought you would steal the item by doing so. I also thought rolling the dice was the most fair thing to do, as it makes everything equal.

Until I had a group absolutely loose their minds on me in a dungeon pickup group last night. It was embarrassing for me to be honest. They were not nice about it at all. But this forced me to read up on it online afterwards.

New players: You should almost always greed (coin symbol) or pass on items. Greed is not a bad thing, it just means its an item you plan to sell. If the item is something specific to your build then you can need on it (dice symbol) which gives you priority. This is an unwritten rule you will not have explained to you by the game. Theoretically if all players play by this method in good faith everyone wins.

Veteran Players: There are a lot of new players like me in this beta. If you have a problem with rookie mistakes, you need to make sure everyone understands the rules before starting a dungeon with randos. "Does everyone understand the Need/Greed Loot system here?" This one quick sentence would solve a lot of headaches deep in dungeons.

Whether you are a returning player or new player, don't be a jerk online. A few days ago before all this happened I looted something a mage needed.

Mage s/ hey can I have that please?

Me s/ sure no problem (trades item)

Mage s/ TY

That's right you can trade most drops right on the spot in Wow: Forever

Just saying, before accusing players of robbing loot, sometimes simply asking them for the item, or even a brief explanation of the unwritten rules in advance goes a loooong way.

PS: I actually don't like this system for a few reasons. That being said, from this point forward I agree to follow this system in good faith for the love of the game.

You’re watching massive world PvP battles thinking “this will be awesome".

It won't be.

You’ll be corpse camped. Jumped at 20% health. Killed landing at flight paths. Your quest giver will be dead and your dungeon group will be waiting while you do your fifth corpse run.

If that sounds fun, roll PvP. Otherwise, don't choose your server based on a streamer's highlight reel.

Go read the old Classic Phase 2 threads. Same hype, followed by “I literally can’t quest.”

That rogue camping you has 12 hours. You have a wife, three jobs, eight children, six dogs and 45 minutes before bed.

And when you come back here to complain, the same people hyping it up will tell you “should’ve rolled PvE.” Or "PvP happened on PvP servers".

Consider this the “should’ve rolled PvE” advice while you still have the choice. Don’t say you weren’t warned.

People are saying that the changes makes the dungeon feel like retail, but honestly its even worse.

In m+ atleast has count, so you dont skip every single mob thats not part of a quest and you get rewards at the end of the dungeon.

I have just been part of an absolute demon run and I fear it will only get worse:

I tanked BFD as a Horde Player and when I joined the group asked that we skip as many mobs as possible.(which was fine by me)

But once Inside it turned out with "mobs" they meant anything that was not part of a quest. They got mad when I tried to get the naga boss in the cave and also did not want to pull the murloc boss because "its too much trash and the loot is not worth it"

They then wanted to skip the bridge with the twilight hammers
(we ended up pulling half the bridge and wiping)

And to top it off a dps left after the 2nd to last boss, because the final boss has no quest on horde and had no loot for him...

I hope this was just an exceptionally bad outlier, but I fear it will only get worse.

BFD is a really small dungeon, what are people going to be like in BRD? Will they just quit left and right once they got their quests?

Is anybody even going to run SM GY, since it has no quests?

I was really excited for Forever, but the way theses changes are playing out is really frustrating as a tank player. I will prob just solo quest to 60 if this doesnt change.

I'm truly excited for a lot of you to experience how comfy it can be on RP servers in WoW, I've personally been playing on them since I started with WoW way back as a teenager and I've not regretted a moment of it.

I do have a request though, if anyone who reads this is somebody who'd typically roll on PvP or PvE but are choosing RP as the lesser of two evils - If you're gonna roll on the RP Ruleset, please try and abide by what that means.

Nobody is expected to be in-character at all times, nobody is expected to rp walk everywhere, RP players are gamers too and I assure you 90% of the time I'm gonna be found bunnyhopping around while I quest while shooting the shit in general just like everybody else. The biggest thing is naming, and general behaviour.

If you're coming here, please don't roll up with some meme name, and please respect the people who are choosing to RP. Feel free to watch, hang out, observe, or just ignore and go on with your day, but if you're inclined to spam abilities on top of people having an in-character conversation on your gnome rogue named Ligma Balls, maybe go hang with the roaches instead?

That's all any of us ask. We aren't the overflow ruleset for people who want to dodge less ideal communities, we're a community of our own. You're welcome to play there, just don't make it worse for us, please?

These are not forever sims!

EDIT: I see a lot of people misinterpreting the image and the post. These are OLD SIMS, FROM ERA. I only made this post to show the hyperbole of people overreacting to the 5% hybrid tax claim. Play what you want, don't mind the rankings and just enjoy yourself.

This is the average sims of P6 Naxxramas on vanilla/ERA Servers.

Notice how Shadow priest used to deal 45% of the top dps. Or enhancement/elemental/retribution/balance also low on the old lists.

I wouldn't worry about 5% tax, sweats will remain sweats and you would not have gotten in to their raids anyway. Being 5% worse because of hybrid tax will end up way less of a difference than you think it will be.

Do not worry.

Please, relax, and see what they will come up with. If you watched/listened to their podcast you can see they are very passionate and know what they are doing.

This is just a post to show where we came from, and that the 5% margin is not as bad since it used to be way worse. Just wait and see what happens is what i'm trying to say.

Peace everyone.

Seriously? On the beta? Come on....

Having played wow since launch I've decided that I want to start this expansion playing I class I have never played. Shaman seems cool and I like alliance so dwarf shaman seems perfect.

However, I unlocked ghost wolf and was like, what's the lore here. Looked it up and it seems to be just because of the frost wolf clan? Which makes sense for horde races but now we're dwarf shamans.

I firmly believe we should have an option to be a different animal, and that animal should be an Alterac valley battle ram.

Give me ghost ram.

Any reason this shouldn't be an option?

I get that they want especially spells to scale differently, and that they will make more sense in the endgame, but a more than 36%+ mana cost increase for a sub 2% damage increase is just absurd and feels terrible & unintuitive as heck.

I love WoWF, but especially as a druid main who has leveled as balance on release & now hit 30, the weird state of wrath is, at least for me, absolutely unjustifiable and I actually have no idea how this made it out of alpha/how many hard-cast spells are in such a weird state with wrath being the extremely absurd outlier.

It solves the problem of being unable to create both Horde and Alliance PVP characters, and has been a staple of WOW for 20 years. Why exclude something so ingrained in WOW's story from a game called Forever?

The appeal of WoWF for me is that it's marketed as a slower pace. Enjoy the journey. Explore the world and systems. Make camp and chat with someone.

But holy moly--after one day of the level cap extended, it's obvious there is a sizeable segment of the player-base that is all about the impatient plow towards maxing all asap.

I have to remind myself there is still a sizeable segment like me. Relaxed. Exploring. I ran RoL last night with a first-time tank who did no research on the dungeon. And it was chill. We got it all done. And I'm happy for that.

There are dozens of us at least.

Have you ever had these intrusive-ideas floating about in your head about how to add something to your class, but it was so outlandish, so crazy, and so unlike anything else, you generally kept it to yourself? Well, with WoW Forever, we need new horizontal progression. Post your shower thoughts here. The picture album in the OP are a few of mine.

Mostly, I'd like to see Blizz do wacky things with itemization this time around, not streamline stats and gear neatly with restrictions like they did for post-Cata retail. Exceptions and niche gear builds are fun.

Will you play one knowing this?
EDIT: He means "Patchwerk-style" boss by the way guys...
"Rogues will be the highest single target damage dealers in the game, given mechanics, given the encounter. But if it's a, we fight this boss in a standstill-type fight, they will do the highest single target damage in the game and that's going to be one of the biggest reasons why you bring [a Rogue] with you."

There are so many beautiful existing assets that I think would fit in exceedingly well into Azeroth. I'll make up a couple more and post them tomorrow morning.

(Ignore my rough edges and color correction, but yeah imagine something like this, clouds moving with you.)

50% xp nerf.

Bummer.

Edit to respond to a general theme: I definitely am on board for curbing the pure dungeon power leveling.

But if I run a dungeon for a piece of gear or two and lose both rolls or don't get a drop at all, then now it feels really, really bad, like I wasted that hour+ that I could have spent questing. Let us at least get half of what we might get questing for that hour.

That seems fair, right?

As someone who only has an hour to spend here or there, and who absolutely love dungeons, I'm forced to make a choice between a second dungeon dive and questing in a way that doesn't feel good.

Also gonna cause a lot of players to leave groups as soon as their loot does or doesn't drop. No incentive to finish a dungeon unless you have a quest.

Ziqo got traded 300+ gold, Pika has almost 100g at lvl 16

its non stop donations, they are doing nothing themselves. again.

its not even a gage of skill any more, just whos community will shill the hardest.

Edit: To clarify, i have no plans of competing, i was just excited to watch. but the hand outs really spoiled that almost instantly. Ill just read about who won on reddit the next day i think now.

1 for quests, then I can keep running it for longer as i farm my drops and my friends drops for longer , because i outlevel the dungion slower.

I get to play the content more not less. People are fixating on exp efficency so much and it never leads to anything good.

Tip from a runescape player. Efficency is the death of fun.

I want it, my body is ready, i can barely contain the hype but at the same time i'm waiting for the release. In the meantime I'm leveling up my fishing in classic era and playing wardogs

Anyone else ?

Edit: didn't think i'd get so many comments so fast, the hype is real lol. I wonder how many players will be there on release

These were all made by using existing Skyboxes that are in the game files and dropping them into the scene. Obviously much can be improved, I'm just an amateur hobbyist as well and these would look much different in game with movement, color correction, behind fog, etc.

Still though, the sky is about 30-50% of what you're looking at all times when you're out in the world, I think it is a large change you can make that would be super influential on how every zone feels.

Man.. I see a lot of jokes about how people are neglecting their wife and kids but I cant help but feel like some of them might be genuine. Our kids are only going to be this age once. Missing memories or damaging their self esteem's by not giving them attention when they need it is just not worth playing another form of WoW again. Wait for bedtime and grind, wake up early and play before they wake up. I get it this shit is fun asf but sometimes I feel like hype games like this make genuinely good people make horrible life decisions. Anyways much love yall and enjoy Azeroth but I'm just asking you to consider thinking of this post when little Johnny runs up to you and asks to play with Dad but your about to run a RFC for the 199th time.

Reposting this from my Forum post since it sadly got buried by the endless “blue elf bad, hd bad, muh racials, rwt, streamers!” When this is such a critical question they need to answer. Hoping a blizz dev catches it here

———

Because other then the legacy system which promote alt leveling and lowering the variance in gear strength in endgame to be within certain ranges of each other - I’m struggling to see how things won’t become vertical again (only not as tall!) where endgame dungeons and raids just get skipped in favour for the latest content.

I also want to know what systems will be in place outside of the legacy system to promote a horizontal improvement to characters. Or to keep people doing old content longterm aside from new character creating. I’ve used FFXI as a good example of horizontal progression through either optional content giving tiny chasable boosts, or requiring players to go back to farm old content.

Some examples:
-monster rearing leveling unlocks small benefits like 1-2% permanent movespeed buff to a character
-Moghancements reducing exp lost on death, crystal drop rates, etc
-Chocobo racing/breeding where the end goal is marginally better dig rates, ride times, or mount ride speeds
-A crafting system that rewards dedication to pursue the highest of profits. As well as supporting material farmers in the open world
-Attunement processes to allow access to endgame pieces of content that also continue to be rewarding
-Running older trials and battlefields for niche pieces of gear constantly to build endless sets
-Running old content to acquire materials to upgrade equipment, keeping that content alive
-A legendary weapon building system that has you interacting with older content and currencies, meaning you have to go back to old world content to farm the currency to push it to the next
- all the above being completely optional to engage with mind you

Add in the long leveling time and reliance of social experiences to get things done, along with several pieces of endgame that don’t invalidate each other(from a 75 standpoint: sea, sky, dynamis, salvage, limbus, kings, Einherjar), makes for a wildly long and engaging progression path.

Tldr: please explain the loops to keep me engaged other the inevitable prebis>raid, level new toon, raid tier skipped - loop.

Edit: Tons of good reception! Everyone seems to be on the same page which is both great and worrying.

Edit2: Regarding the examples, all of those take long grinds to achieve and all content in the game - with the exception of endgame unlock attunements - without ever having interacted with them.

Why make this item so integral for Druid’s again? It doesn’t feel good.