r/worldnews • u/AdSpecialist6598 • 15h ago
Russia/Ukraine Germany announces $1.46 billion in aid for Ukraine, including interceptor drones
https://kyivindependent.com/germany-announces-1-46-billion-in-aid-for-ukraine-including-interceptor-drones/752
u/Rush_Banana 14h ago
It's insane to me that only 52% of Germans support sending weapons to Ukraine and the support is only dropping.
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u/Yvraine 14h ago
Fuel costs rise, grocery prices rise, cost of living rise, hard to find living space, taxes for healthcare rise, taxes for pension rise, future of your own pension is in doubt, infrastructure is failing everywhere, no meaningful concept or investions done into infrastructure, education or the future in general.
How is it insane to you that people don't want to send billions of their tax money to other countries when their own is slowly crumbling in front of them?
Support for Ukraine remains paramount, but dismissing the countless of valid complains citizen have is what allowed cancer like AfD and Anti-Ukraine position to rise in the first place.
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u/AprilsMostAmazing 13h ago
The war on Iran is straight up helping Russia
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u/Dwarte_Derpy 7h ago
Ehhhh, not quite but kind of at the same time. Russia is both gaining in terms of reduced sanctions but it's also losing assistance from a geopolitical ally
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u/Wuffkeks 14h ago
Because part of the problems are from the russian invasion.
Additionally our curent goverment only transfers the money to big companies anyway so its better to save lifes than to get a ceo his 10th yacht.
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u/ElysiX 13h ago
Well the sentiment of the other side is that they don't care whose fault it is, if russia wins and the war is over then gas prices and a lot of other stuff will go down.
That that means new wars in the future is not something they think or care about.
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u/n_f_b_-_the_second 10h ago
Which is stupid because russia winning only means a lull in the war, a period of re armament and looking for new targets and ways to attack those targets.
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u/Dartz_Reverse 7h ago
For many people that is irrelevant because by then they'll be dead.
The generation that thinks like that is the largest, wealthiest, and therefore most influential generation of all time.
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u/Mysterious-Recipe810 5h ago
If right wing Germany is anything like the USA, they’re just being lied to, and believe it.
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u/Schlummi 6h ago
If russia wins then we are back to cold war. Which means a massive military, mandatory draft system, even stricter sanctions on russia and so on. So I doubt that gas prices will go down - and costs for military will surely go up. Same as EU probably will need to deal with additional millions of ukrainian refugees.
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u/Alternative_Ear5542 12h ago
so its better to save lifes than to get a ceo his 10th yacht.
Who do you think runs the companies that build the interceptor drones?
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u/Wuffkeks 8h ago
Sure they are also kind of evil but a lesser evil at the moment. If you can save lives while someone gets rich or you can only make someone rich and nobody besides them is helped its not a hard choice.
If our goverment wouldn't be so lobby driven than we would have a real hard choice, right now thats not the case and with the AFD on the horizon the future doesn't doesn't look any better.
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u/Phezh 11h ago
Ah yes, the CEO. The most critical part in any drone construction supply chain.
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u/Alternative_Ear5542 11h ago
Not really making a statement of their criticality, just that a CEO is still getting their tenth yacht.
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u/Yvraine 14h ago
Russia is not responsible for the criminal level of incompetence from the Germany government the last 20+ years or mismanagement from german companies, particularly in the automotive sector.
Most of them were already there or written on the wall before Russia invaded Ukraine
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u/Gluke23 13h ago
The automotive companies have their own incompetence.
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u/ZumboPrime 12h ago
That's not incompetence, but rather perverse financial incentives. The sociopaths in suits running those corporations don't get paid more for long-term success and reliable vehicles. Their bonuses depend on quarterly performance, government subsidies, and other short-term goals. I despise the way our economies reward short-term greed that sabotages sustainable business practices.
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u/eipotttatsch 10h ago
Russia isn’t innocent there either though. They have demonstrably run huge campaigns online and IRL to influence politics and people opinions.
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u/Wuffkeks 8h ago
At the moment we don't know how much foreign interference we have. (like Gerhard Schroeder for example) Still a lot of turmoil and problems got worse because of the invasion. Also they heavily finance the AFD and BSW that threatens democraty.
Yes we have many problems and many if not all would have been there without Russia but they are not making it better.
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u/tlst9999 13h ago edited 11h ago
particularly in the automotive sector.
China: Give us your technology and everything you will develop for the next 20 years. In return, we give you 20 years of shareholder value.
Germany car companies: Sure lol. Great deal.
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u/Schlummi 6h ago
German car companies focused on combustine engine SUVs/luxury cars. Those had high margins.
But its clear for at least 10 years, probably already 15 years that the market will switch to battery cars.
German car makers lobbied against stricter regulations for CO2. Plenty of voters agree with them. Some political parties argue with "we need to be open for all technologies" (-> support for fossile fuels).
This means: china walks ahead with battery cars, tesla grew big. German car makers sticked with fossile fuel SUVs.
That like insisting on typewriters will the printers are already becoming mainstream.
China has now "proven" technology on the market. Car makers with 10-15 years BEV experience. And is also already building up recycling infrastructure. Germany lags behind.
This at a time when costs of living increase, wages stagnate and fuel gets more expensive. So people might be tempted to spend less on a smaller BEV instead of splurging on a combustine engine SUV. Renault had afaik good results this year, due to their smaller more affordable BEVs...
--> China isn't copying german car makers. In BEVs are they far ahead.
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u/UNSKIALz 13h ago edited 13h ago
It's a valid point but this is very much a messaging problem.
There is no "going back" to before the war, like many seem to think.
Putin will not stop at Ukraine. Letting him have it means he goes for something else. That is not an opinion, that is historical constant. Everything gets exponentionally more expensive the more we appease him.
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u/Free-Way-9220 12h ago
Each time Putin has invaded, annexed other carved out a territory in someone else's country, he's promised its his last territorial demand. Just like all the other ones before it
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u/iTzzSunara 11h ago
See also Chamberlain/Hitler Munich Agreement.
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u/tlst9999 47m ago
Yea. But at the point, didn't Chamberlain decide that Britain should start building its navy again?
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u/big_duo3674 4h ago
Umm....because the invasion itself massively destabilized the regional economy, and worldwide economies to a lesser extent. Nearby conflicts, cause enough economic issues as it is, then you add in the potential for it to expand to your country and you get an even worse impact. I really hope you're not saying that the economy would be better if Russia was allowed to overtake Ukraine, or even make a massive push and take a large chunk of it. Like, I realllly hope 😭 If either of those things happened consumer prices in much of Europe would go off the rails. This is isn't wasting money, it's spending money to lessen local economic impact from the war
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u/needlestack 13h ago edited 12h ago
How is it insane
Because it’s incredibly short sighted. Not supporting Ukraine will result in a Russian victory, rewarding Russia for invading a peaceful European neighbor. They think things are tough now? Wait until Russia celebrates victory in Ukraine and sets their sights on the next chunk of Europe they plan to bite off.
And anyone claiming Russia can’t keep this up are ignorant of Russian history. They lost something like 20x the soldiers in WW2 that they have in Ukraine. And they won. And they recovered fine. Europe would be insane not to stop them now. They need to be pushed back to their borders or the difficulties of the past four years will look like Utopia.
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u/tctyaddk 12h ago
Shortsighted, yes, but when the stomachs are growling, the common people don't care that much if other country that is not even a formal ally (i.e. via binding treaty) gets bitten by another country, especially when the latter did provided cheap fuel in the past and dangles future return to providing cheap fuel once they win. Even in a fake democracy the voters must be bought with what they want once in a while, otherwise you get the likes of AfD rising and the mainstream like CDU dropping like a sack of garbage.
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u/WalkerBuldog 7h ago
Sotmachs are geowing
And you are describing one of the wealthiest country with one of the highest standards of living. Okay
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u/Dartz_Reverse 7h ago
With a growing low-class of people that do not get to benefit from any of that and just have to watch how everybody else in their country is having decent lives they themselves will never come close to?
Yeah, Im sure that categorization is helping a lot!
"Germans shouldnt be angry cuz their country isnt poor!" is the same energy as "Americans shouldnt be angry cuz their country isnt poor!".
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u/WalkerBuldog 7h ago
I am not saying they shouldn't be angry. The argument that Germans are starving and struggle is bs
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u/Dartz_Reverse 6h ago
The argument that Germans are starving and struggle is bs
And my argument is that some literally fucking are, and the rest of their country being happy makes that even worse, not better. Our food banks are literally over capacity at this point, have been since the refugee crisis, while grocery prices exploded, while wages stagnated and jobs disappeared and are over-competed for by refugees.
Thats the beauty of our capitalist system, even the "successful" countries are full of people that absolutely despise whats happening, but all the middle class sheep just live in ignorance and wag their finger.
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u/ArisenDrake 5h ago
Germany has a ton of very rich people, and also a lot of very poor people. The latter group is growing rapidly. Your statement might not be false, but it leaves out way too many important distinctions.
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u/Jan090501 10h ago
Russia never provided „cheap fuel“. We paid normal market prices.
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u/tctyaddk 9h ago
Pipeline gas is cheaper than the alternative other providers offered i.e. LNG via ships. Until someone bombed the pipeline. Then Germany had to buy LNG, and the industries soon felt the difference in prices.
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u/RedditSucksIWantSync 10h ago
Well most people just want it to end. And by end they mean putin take over put a puppet there and everyone goes on with their normal lives.
Something which will never happen, but hey I'll leave them to their delusions, I'm tired of talking about it too ngl
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u/rschulze 6h ago
That's fair, but is increasing the defense of Ukraine really helping end the war, or just prolonging it as long as Russia is willing to just throw people into the meat grinder.
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u/pleasedontPM 12h ago
People think war is too expensive, but they don't know the price of a fake peace.
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u/iTzzSunara 12h ago
It's insane because it's better to fight the war in Ukraine than in Berlin-Brandenburg. The current Russian government has to fall at this point to end the aggression against its neighbours and end its fantasies of becoming UdSSR 2.0 once and for all. We can't allow it to be a threat to Europe forever. We have different problems in the future that require attention.
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u/capybooya 9h ago
Fuel costs rise, grocery prices rise, cost of living rise, hard to find living space, taxes for healthcare rise, taxes for pension rise, future of your own pension is in doubt, infrastructure is failing everywhere, no meaningful concept or investions done into infrastructure, education or the future in general.
All of which is going to get worse for decades ahead if the Russia problem is not solved and they keep at their behavior.
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u/DieDieDieD 10h ago
Sure, all valid. But if Ukraine falls what is stopping Russia from running amok across europe after rebuilding in a few years? The money you spend now is nothing in comparison to what you will go through if Russia is allowed to bully europe
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u/tradvy43 12h ago
How much do you think it's gonna cost them when Russia invades another neighbor? Save a penny to spend a pound. Or in this case, a few billion pounds and German lives.
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u/Captain-Barracuda 8h ago
All valid, but more and more these are funds for stuff built within the country they provide the funds. So the money doesn't just disappear, it goes back into the local economy which helps all of the above points.
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u/stormelemental13 6h ago
dismissing the countless of valid complains citizen have
If you support AfD, you have no valid concerns.
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u/the_mighty_peacock 13h ago
When immigration numbers rise 3 fold as a result of Ukraine's capitulation, people will care.
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u/brakeled 12h ago
Because everything you just listed doesn’t matter if Ukraine loses and Russia is another country closer to Germany.
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u/Alternative-Suit5541 2h ago
For married people with kids, health care cost will almost double next year ( if the wife is jobless) lol
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u/Dookie120 14h ago
Russian agitprop takes time but is effective
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u/OkWillingness2817 12h ago
Not just Russian. America has sabotaging the EU pretty high on their list of priorities and while they’re an incompetent bunch of morons, they’re not shying away from throwing money at it.
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u/illegible 8h ago
one could argue that the American sabotaging is merely a secondary effect of the Russian agitprop.
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u/OkWillingness2817 8h ago
Not really. I get that Americans are desperate not to take responsibility for what’s happening.
But Trump’s an outcome Americans have been building towards for decades. He represents American core values to a tee.
And frankly he’s so unpredictable that he’s as much a problem for the Russians as anyone else.
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u/green_flash 14h ago
Supporters of the traditional West German parties are overwhelmingly pro-Ukraine.
However, 86% of AfD voters are against Germany sending weapons to Ukraine. So are around 43% of Die Linke voters.
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u/Todnesserr 13h ago
However, 86% of AfD voters are against Germany sending weapons to Ukraine. So are around 43% of Die Linke voters.
With one significant difference between these two groups: Die Linke voters don't want any weapons exports, not to Ukraine, Israel or anyone else, not because they don't support Ukraine.
They would rather create economic and political pressure for Russia to end the invasion and try to find a peace treaty with diplomatic measures that include the BRICS nations
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u/Dartz_Reverse 6h ago
Yeah, they are stupid on principle, not traitors.
At least the voters, the leadership might well be under the traitor tent, but who in politics isnt?
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u/broguequery 9h ago
What most voting Germans probably either don't realize or don't care about is that they are currently in a war.
Russia has been taking action against them for some time now.
Funding Ukraine is a brilliant way to fight back.
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u/King_Ulio 14h ago
Eastern Germany has a shared history with Russia. People sometimes forget that. Plus Germany has a lot of economic troubles right now and don't like to see money flow abroad.
I do believe we will continue the support. It's too important to give up now.
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u/CommercialGrand8212 13h ago
Yes and the Shared history was brutal dictatorship and the complete economic dismantling of eastern Germany.
I still don’t understand how that should endear the East Germans to Russia.
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u/Neomataza 10h ago
Nostalgia, basically. "I was a kid in east germany and I was happy" is enough, especially if you never knew pre-russian dismantling east germany.
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u/SolidusAbe 10h ago
almost everyone in my family who is over the age of 50 thinks like that.
everything was better back then. everyone had jobs. we never traveled nyways so we didnt care about the wall and we didnt do anything wrong so we never had issues with the stasi. etc. etc.
pretty much what ive been hearing from them for as long as i can remember lol not a rare mindset in the east
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u/Plus990_Cx 12h ago
You can say what you want about it, but never the less it is still a thing. It even has a name, "Ostalgie"
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u/mhornberger 13h ago
and the complete economic dismantling of eastern Germany.
It's also tragic that the entrenched poverty and dysfunction in Eastern German is blamed on Western Germany not integrating them well enough, not on the lasting economic and social trauma of having lived under the USSR. To include the paranoia and resentment that manifest as anti-immigrant sentiment out of proportion to the number of immigrants actually in Eastern Germany.
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u/CommercialGrand8212 13h ago
Let’s not forget that
1) a lot of the smart, driven and young people moved to west Germany, so while eastern Germany might still be relatively poor, a lot of former East Germans aren’t
2) if you compare east Germany not to the former brd but to similar economies east of the wall, east Germany ist quite rich. Being East German was certainly better than being polish and that gap is just recently closing.
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u/SockPuppet365 12h ago
The cultural problem that still persists is that before the wall came down, East Germany was in the A-Team of Warsaw Pact countries, with people in Dresden having a higher standard of living than those living in Moscow.
After the collapse of the GDR and the reunification the East Germans turned from the Warsaw Pact elites into the poor lowest-class of the newly unified Germany.
That "trauma" imo gives a good amount of momentum to the AfD when they promise a return to past glory…
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u/mhornberger 13h ago edited 13h ago
Poland was still part of the Eastern Bloc, still had their own secret police, were under a Marxist-Leninist government, etc. Poland has benefited a lot from being part of the EU and Schengen, but those Marxist regimes leave a degree of damage that is hard to make up for. Having fallen behind economically is part of it, but not all of it.
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u/Treewithatea 11h ago
I think the biggest reason is simply that the AfD is at an all time high in popularity and side with 'peace' aka we let Ukraine lose to Russia, also 100% coincidence that the AfD gains significant funding from Russia
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u/kakihara123 11h ago
One argument is that we do not do enough against the russian shadowfleet because it benefits us. Sending weapons that will cause deaths instead of reducing the military capabilities of Russia is kinda ass. It's not so much about not helping Ukraine, it is how it is done. I'm kinda torn, since I'm not knowledgeable enough how much impact that would have and how feasible it is.
Also Just defending is simply too slow, so either Ukraine needs to attack Russia (Which they do, which wasn't the case when this debate started) or he war goes on until Russia can no longer do war because they can't finance it anymore, hence the previous point to hasten this point. Of course we can always do both. But people need to be aware of the consequences.
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u/scrapheaper_ 6h ago
The AfD are massive in Germany
Don't forget East Germany was communist, this anti-establishment, pro Russian sentiment has history in Germany. Not all Germany is Berlin
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u/cylonfrakbbq 4h ago
It's natural for war - people's support gets fatigued, especially when it seems like the conflict is just dragging on with no end.
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u/Free-Way-9220 14h ago
Germany needs to send over Taurus missiles before the Russian stooge parties on the far right and left gain even more traction
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u/PressureCalm7971 10h ago
As much as I support Ukraine and hope they will win, I also can't say that I, as someone who lives in Germany, can't understand where this comes from. The people aren't necessarily against Ukraine or pro-Russian. Germany is simply in a very, very, very bad state right now, with everything seemingly on the brink of collapse, and people are noticing it more and more. So seeing billions being sent away every time Selenskyj and Merz meet is frustrating when it feels like nothing is being done about the problems this country has.
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u/patchyj 9h ago
I dont know Jack about shit but could it be possible that Russia's asymmetric war against the West for decades has contributed not only to the problems germany is facing but is also to the growing divide in discourse surrounding the issues?
Basically, create the problems then blow them out of proportion
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u/Wedgiebro 4h ago
Ukraine has been taking this money to support isis and its allies in mali. They are allowing millions of africans to die and overthrowing governments just to hurt the russian soldiers backing those governments. With all the rpoble. Ingermany not suprising the average voter.is sick of paying this
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u/kRe4ture 14h ago
For once, Merz actually does something good.
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u/cocotheape 14h ago
There is a lot to criticize about him, but regarding Ukraine his position is fine.
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u/NecessarySudden 14h ago
That can be applied to many current european leaders. Meloni, Merz, Macron, Zelenskyy - in their countries people are not satisfied by internal policies but on an international stage they're ok.
I think it's because budgeting, policies, solving everyday problems, infrastructure, reforms and transport are difficult to implement and boring. You can be shitty politic but It only requires to be a decent person to support ukrainians in this war against bigger and stronger enemy.
Boris Johnson? Was bashed by brits but loved by ukrainians for his honest support and his help.
It's sad when questionable leader gets replaced with populists who start ruining everything while on russian payroll2
u/BrexitHangover 5h ago
Macon?? Ate you kidding me? France does fuck shit to help, it's embarrasing. Except for words and cool sunglasses
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u/SweetVioleett 14h ago
Germany just showed what a real ally looks like. Trump is over there crying about a phone call and doxxing senators. What a leader.
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u/garg 11h ago
well yeah, until they elect AfD
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u/Encrux615 9h ago
Berlin voted left. If they manage to form a government, there will be a majority for something that has been brewing for a while:
The constitutional court (the highest in Germany) will determine whether or not AfD is constitutional, with many lawyers and professionals today saying they aren’t.
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u/Mr_s3rius 7h ago
Only the federal government (Bundestag , Bundesrat, Bundesregierung) can trigger the AfD investigation through the court.
Berlin is a state government. They can't.
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u/Encrux615 1h ago
They have four seats in the Bundesrat, which is currently the exact amount needed for a majority.
So yes, their four votes would likely trigger an AfD investigation.
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u/Jacc3 7h ago
There is quite som tile until the next election though. So Ukrainian support should be secure for now
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u/Pellaeonthewingedleo 5h ago
6 Months till three state parliament elections. So 13 of 69 seats in the Bundesrat are up for grabs. And there are elections in Mai and September as well
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u/damondan 10h ago
First good thing I have heard coming from the current government. Hopefully the fascist AFD won't completely sabotage further aid to Ukraine.
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u/mixxituk 12h ago
Basically free frontier war testing / trials
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u/UAP_enthusiast_PL 11h ago
There is usually lots of reasons behind a big political decision, this is only one of them and far from the most inportant.
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u/Lefty800 2h ago
Can we stop with war, please? Like nobody but the dipshits want it.
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u/Libertyreign 1h ago
Some people are anti-war, but if you're anti-war you better get on board with being very pro-suppression.
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u/Lefty800 1h ago
I suppose I'm talking of an idyllic world where we have no war and the people don't have to be oppressed. Obviously we are a long way from that.
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u/Tatsusan 12h ago
Meanwhile, things keep going down the drain here in Germany. Prices don't stop rising, more and more companies are emigrating, businesses are going bankrupt, health insurance benefits are becoming fewer and more expensive because more and more newly immigrated people are receiving benefits without having paid in a single cent, and let's not even start about pensions or our poor pensioners.. Here in Germany, almost everyone is getting upset by now that we are spending our hard-earned money around the world and especially in Ukraine. "He is the Chancellor of Ukraine," people have been joking here for a long time.. he doesn't give a damn about Germany. Main thing is we all go to work diligently with ever-increasing deductions. He is the most unpopular Chancellor ever in Germany.
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u/Aschebescher 9h ago
Not a single one of our problems exists because we a supporting Ukraine. We could easily do both, support Ukraine and try to solve our domestic problems.
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9h ago edited 5h ago
[deleted]
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u/RealisticEntity 7h ago
Every bit counts. 1.46B is a lot by any measure and is on top of what has already been given.
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11h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/QuadzillaStrider 8h ago
I guess you'd rather Russia just steamroll Ukraine.
Self-serving psychopath.
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u/SomeBiPerson 9h ago
free drone trials and in exchange for real frontline experience
helps to improve German drone design a Lot
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u/Responsible-Donut101 14h ago
money for the stuff that actually stops the missiles