r/worldnews • u/FURRYL0L1Y401TR4PDSM • 16h ago
Taiwan reckons with the prospect of fending for itself as Trump pivots on China
https://www.nbcnews.com/world/asia/taiwan-reckons-prospect-fending-trump-pivots-china-rcna60064035
u/windtulip 15h ago
Taiwan understands US is not reliable.
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u/Clear-Role6880 9h ago edited 9h ago
nonsense.
The Arab world will never forget what the US has done for them at great cost and intense domestic political pressure.
Latin America is closer tied to the US than any time in history (also true of the Middle East), as the US is now helping Latin states dismantle cartels.
China has pushed the IndoPacific closer to the US than ever before as well. India and Indonesia in particular. Beyond that, Philippines are opening a US base for the first time in 30 years. Japan is opening weapon sales for the first time in 80 years. China is boxed.
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u/windtulip 8h ago
Look at how US treats its allies now.
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u/Clear-Role6880 8h ago
Thats what I just said.
The US just spent half its invaluable interceptors protecting its allies in the Middle East. The US is heavily engaged in escort operations to get allies oil out. The US just prevented Iran from conquering the region.
The US is selling advanced weapons and opening military bases in Poland and Romania.
US is engaging cartel operations across Latin America and providing training and targeting and logistical support to Venezuela, Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, others.
US is strengthening ties across IndoPacific and increasing military support to Philippines, India, Indonesia.
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u/windtulip 8h ago
How does the “current” US government treat Greenland, Canada and Ukraine?
“Have you ever say ‘thank you’ once?”
How did Trump welcome Xi and Putin, in contrast to his attitude towards Zelenskyy?
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u/Clear-Role6880 8h ago edited 8h ago
The US continues supplying Ukraine with funding and intelligence. the funding footprint is smaller to force Europe to pay for it. The US is not assisting Russia or China in any capacity at all. Why do you care if the US is cordial with adversaries?
Coercing UK, France, Germany, Canada, Denmark does not negate the intense support the US has supplied to other allies. Maybe you should ask yourself, why is the US willing to risk so much and expend so much for some allies, and willing to pressure other allies?
The US has interests. When Canada, UK, France, Germany, Denmark act against US interests, they get pressured until they act in US interests. And their own interests by the way.
Europe finally has a fleet capable of maintaining deterrence in the Mediterranean. The US had to pull teeth to get them to do this. Western Europe betrayed the US by failing their duties. The US forced them to get serious again. Western Europe still funds Russia's war effort in Ukraine.
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u/windtulip 8h ago
The 28-point peace proposal demands Ukraine to yield control of its lands. This is the “current” US government’s attitude. Isn’t it reasonable that Taiwan doubts the reliability of US support, especially in the situation that Xi was warmly welcomed in the “current” White House?
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u/Tim-Little 5h ago
And Trump was the one who signed the CUSMA trade deal he's violating now. Yeah that guy's delusional. There is no reliability in the US leadership.
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u/Clear-Role6880 8h ago
the US just delivered advanced F-16V airframes to Taiwan 2 days ago.
you are letting media twist your mind.
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u/windtulip 8h ago
Sure. US indeed provides some support. But considering Trump administration’s attitudes towards Ukraine, it’s reasonable that they doubt the reliability of this support. It depends on who the president is if there were a war. Biden administration is more reliable obviously.
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u/Clear-Role6880 8h ago
Russia invaded Ukraine under Biden, not Trump. Under Biden, Russia was winning that war. Under Trump, Ukraine is winning that war. Under Biden, Ukraine never deep striked Russia. Under Trump, Ukraine deep strikes Russia daily. Do you think its coincidence that Ukraine is employing cruise missiles as of January?
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u/sask357 15h ago
Paywall so article not read. Headline is not surprising. The rest of the world sees America changing its international relations. Perhaps surprisingly, polls still show close races in the US midterm elections. This shows that many Americans have switched to positive opinions of Russia, North Korea and China. South Korea, Taiwan and NATO are no longer viewed as important allies by the US government and a large number of voters.
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u/Wizard_Enthusiast 15h ago
Polls do not show close races in the midterm elections. I don't know why this is a thing I see in international media when national media constantly finds worse and worse outlooks for the republicans literally every day.
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u/jaypizzl 15h ago
They are closer than you’re implying. Democrats only have an 8 point lead in generic party congressional polls. Many races are extremely close. Minnesota and Maine senate races are in a dead heat for some reason. This comes as Americans should be rioting in the streets. Their rapist in chief never stops saying deeply stupid things, has started yet another un-winnable Middle East war, and is presiding over an insane 34% federal budget deficit.
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u/Wizard_Enthusiast 14h ago
"Only" an 8 point lead is an insane lead. I think a lot of people who aren't Americans don't quite get what an entrenched two party system looks like, or what American LIFE looks like, or that the Senate being within the Dem's grasp in any midterm, but especially THIS midterm because of what states are up for election, is absolutely dire. And it's not "some reason" when the previous democratic candidate for Senate in Maine had to drop out because he was revealed to have sexually assaulted women and the candidate in Minnesota is saying things like "criticisms of Sharia Law are rooted in white supremacy," the sort of thing that might not fly in Minnesota as a whole
Conservative voters don't have another party to go to. Support can't collapse the way it does in other systems, especially in polling, because there isn't another option. But Trump's coalition of mostly non-voters who vote for him and nobody else has been an issue for republicans for 10 years now and why they've gone from overperforming in midterms for like 40 years before that to now underperforming.
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u/Alarming_Purpose4081 14h ago
it may be a large lead in an american perspective, but for the rest of the world it shows that Trump is not a one off. America could well end the same place soon again.
As jaypizzl says, this is a time where large protests ny both Dems and Reps would have been expected by the rest of us.0
u/Wizard_Enthusiast 13h ago
This is because you guys don't understand how and why Trump is a one off because what he did doesn't make sense in your systems but makes perfect sense in ours. But our system why he's going to be greatly diminished in power next year and gone the year after that and there is nothing he can do about it. In other countries, he could hang around for years as a PM or do things like delay or cancel elections. Not here, they happen when they happen and it has always worked that way.
After building their entire political apparatus around him, the conservative coalition will have to be reconfigured and will probably look fairly different than it does now, because there is no successor to Trump. Like every personality-based movement, with the personality gone there's not really anything there for them to hold on to. Since he's 80 and looks like he's gonna die any day now, he can't even work as a long-term figurehead to rally around, especially since people don't like him or what he's done.
International observers always assume that US citizens are somehow super informed and because they're not burning down buildings all the time they support everything the government does. We're just as stupid as everyone else, man: people voted for Trump because he was president before the pandemic and didn't pay attention to anything he said. Only too online weirdos on his side like what he says, and the worldview he espouses conflicts greatly with the ones most Americans share. As you guys all saw when you came for the world cup: we like other countries and have a cultural tendency to see ourselves as partially from them. Europeans hate it, but ask most americans anywhere and they'll tell you about how they're Italian and Irish or Swedish and Scottish or... basically anything you can think of. This didn't change! Why aren't we out there protesting every day? Some of us are, for one, but also, like most people, protests take time and energy and money so they really only start to crop up consistently when people are out of work and don't have anything. Despite what various poverty tourists have tried to convince the world of, people in the US are employed at a decent rate and do make enough money to eat, even if it's costing more than it used to and we don't like that.
We have the same problem with super rich insane guys and crypto-backed criminals funding the populist right as literally everyone else. The guy they managed to get into power here is old, stupid, and bad at his job. Be on the lookout for what guy they're trying to put into power in your country and what political mechanisms they're hijacking. Cause they're doin' it.
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u/soulstormfire 7h ago
>"This is because you guys don't understand how and why Trump is a one off "<
That's because you elected him twice and are currently acting like you're fine with all of that shit.
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u/Alarming_Purpose4081 13h ago
thx for taking the time with a long reply (yes, Im being serious)... I think most of us who has visited US and have friends there have been shocked to the core that Trump was elected again.
I sincerely hope you are right and in my small opinion, I believe you deserve better.•
u/buyongmafanle 25m ago
But our system why he's going to be greatly diminished in power next year and gone the year after that and there is nothing he can do about it.
I heard that around 2018. Then again in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024. I'll believe he's gone when I read the headlines that he's either in prison or gone from the planet. Until then, never underestimate the actual power holders' desire to gain more power.
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u/sask357 14h ago
You are saying that a large number of voters will support Trump by voting Republican in the midterms. Yes. That's what I'm saying. I add that they will do so despite his positive attitude towards North Korea, Russia and China and his negative attitude towards Taiwan, South Korea, NATO, Ukraine and Canada. Sure, many Americans still favour this list of former allies but the margins are terribly slim.
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u/Acceptable_Bat379 13h ago
Yup. I personally know veterans that hate Trump, haye what hes done to the military and our alliances, and will likely still vote for him. We're fighting DECADES of mass media brainwashing even before social media. And it is increasingly worldwide We're not special. To use a flippant metaphor, the us was in first place so the world ganged up.on us with the blue turtle shells
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u/mickalawl 8m ago
I think this is a definitional thing.
Whilst domestic polls show a historic lead, Outsiders are flummoxed that support for GOP isn't 0%.
When your expectation is 0% support and questioning why Americans are not taking their country back then yeah leads like 56% vs 44% seem frightenly close.
Plus the bizarre election college ( to an outsider) makes the popular vote, which is what polls reflect, not all that useful or relevant...
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u/sask357 14h ago
Just taking one summary, without doing any calculations, 40% support Trump and his rejection of former allies like Europe, Britain, South Korea, Taiwan and Canada. That's a better percentage than the vote that elected him President. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/polls/congressional-vote-2026.html
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u/Wizard_Enthusiast 13h ago
This is a bad way to look at polling. People can say they support a president or say that they'll vote for a candidate from his party and still disagree with some or even ALL of his policies. That's the way it is with everyone, we're strange creatures. Trump's foreign policy is WILDLY disliked in all polling, landing at 71-68% saying "disapprove," which is vague and plenty of people could say that they approve of what Trump's doing as a whole but have issues with part of it, or have convinced themselves that he's doing a "tough love" thing.
The country as a whole didn't do a 180 on what we like and dislike. What he's doing is wildly disliked and not mirrored in the populations' decisions or attitudes towards other countries. Trump's weird, narcissist way of looking at the world isn't even shared by his whole party, which is almost always busy coming up with ways to say he isn't actually doing the thing he said he was doing. Which, to their benefit, is usually true, because he's constantly lying about what he's doing and what will happen.
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u/AffectionateCowLady 13h ago
Trump voters haven’t got a clue where these other countries are. They probably couldn’t point to their own state on a map.
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u/dylanbitran 15h ago
Weird. Why would international news report something different than domestic news outlets?
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u/Wizard_Enthusiast 14h ago
Ah yes, the famously touchy president who's trying to ban News Media from the White House because they keep saying mean things about him is pressuring Domestic Sources to make it seem like his opposition is doing better than it actually is, for some reason, even though he keeps talking about how well he's doing and how everyone loves him.
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u/jaypizzl 12h ago
There are several reasons.
First, you need to narrow the field to societies with free or mostly free press. Obviously, the news in Russia, China, and North Korea does not correspond much to reality.
Next, even in mostly free countries, there's some significant censorship. The United States is a prime example of a country with mostly free press. When American news outlets run stories critical of the rapist in chief, that rapist can and will sue them into submission. he will direct his appointees to punish the critical news organization in their official capacities. That is flamingly obvious corruption that is poisonous to democracy, but that is American reality.
Then even news that is genuinely free and honest simply comes from different perspectives. When non-Americans see a poll split 54-46, they see a race that's awfully close. When Americans see the same thing, even honest and educated ones, they may think that's not a very close race because most recent American elections have been even closer. Close is subjective. Eight points is eight points, but it appears different to different viewers.
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u/sask357 12h ago
A 54-46 split shows that considerable support remains even if opposition has increased. Even if Democrats dominate in the midterms, a large proportion of Americans have rejected former allies. Instead they like a leader who talks about his friendship with and admiration of dictators.
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u/El_Barto_227 6h ago edited 6h ago
The fact that it's not closer to a 90-10 split shows how broken and stupid the brains of American voters are. That after years of constant disaster and failure, 46% of the country still support this guy shows that they're irredeemable and will just vote in the next Trump once oil prices are back to normal.
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u/Longy_LTB 1h ago
Which is interesting, because Trump is quite obviously turning the government to an autocratic communist state, yet the people talk as though they’re in a thriving democracy. I wonder if the penny will ever drop?
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u/Forge_Shield 14h ago
I wonder why North Korea.
China makes sense. China and the US are in a symbiotic relationship, neither can survive without the other. If the US goes, then nobody else on earth can absorb China's exports like the US can, if China goes nobody else on earth can keep prices of things down for Americans like China can.
Russia has resources and the arctic shipping routes.
But what about North Korea?
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u/coastalwebdev 9h ago edited 6h ago
“…As Xi forces Trump to pivot on China”
After that last visit from Xi, it’s pretty clear he’s got Trump by his balls.
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u/vancity-boi-in-tdot 2h ago
Nukes could level the playing field. The same goes for Japan whuch has territorial disputes with 3 nuclear armed totalitarian states (North Korea, Russia, China)
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u/karenskygreen 9h ago
Trump has taken away the only real obstacle facing them taking over Taiwan. I bet China will make a move before trump leaves office
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u/Silent-Act191 9h ago
He has created a land bridge between mainland China and Taiwan?
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u/Phase_999 7h ago edited 7h ago
The strait is a relatively minor obstacle in comparison to the possibility of US intervention, it was the largest obstacle back in the 1950s, but the PLA has had a long time to overcome it as a challenge. It also helps that Taiwan's western side happens to be very flat, and the Penghu Islands would make for a pretty decent FOB.
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u/PorkProofPrion 5h ago edited 3h ago
I think there's only few places on the
eastwest where the waters are deep enough for larger ships... basically where the ports are now, so Taiwan can focus defense there. When the US was island hopping toward Japan during WW2, they ultimately decided to skip Taiwan and went for Okinawa and Phillipines instead.3
u/Phase_999 4h ago
It's actually the Western side that is the shallower one, and that is reflected in the Mainland's main landing equipment. The Eastern shores are very deep, and the Eastern side is a less desirable landing direction more because you start facing mountains very soon from the shore, it's isolated, it doesn't have as many high-value targets, etc. etc.
There are still multiple possible landing points on the Eastern side as well, and not putting enough focus on it would just allow the PLA to start hindering Taiwan to a higher degree by creating pockets there, so it's not as simple as just focusing on the Western side.
Regarding American strategy to approach Japan during WW2, you'll note that we're talking about the Mainland advancing to Taiwan. The conditions and motivations between the formers of both scenarios are completely different.
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u/Clear-Role6880 9h ago
0 chance. China can't take taiwan without US intervention. China will likely never be able to seize Taiwan.
Foreign powers don't move under Republicans, it hasn't happened Since Saddam in 91. All moves are made under Democrats. No one is going to test the US right now as willingness to use military force is clearly demonstrated.
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u/SufficientGolf6953 6h ago
China retaking Taiwan is inevitable, and I say that as a biased American.
Think long term. China is never going to give up on taking Taiwan. Meanwhile, America defending a nation on Chinas doorstep 3k miles away is something that cannot be sustained forever.
Hopefully that is far into the future nobody alive today will have to deal with it.
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u/Clear-Role6880 6h ago
How many successful beach landings into hostile defenses can you think of?
How can China seize Taiwan without getting blockaded at Malacca? How can China prevent blockade at malacca without first seizing Taiwan?
How much military experience did China have?
How did Russia’s attack on Kiev go? With a much more professional and experienced military, in much easier terrain, against a much less equipped opponent?
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u/SufficientGolf6953 6h ago
If I were China, I would consider bringing Taiwan to heel by launching drones at them non-stop.
How would Taiwan survive Chinas industrial might?
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u/Clear-Role6880 6h ago
This would likely prompt the US to blockade China at malacca and cut them from the dollar as well as global sanctions, crashing their economy
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u/SufficientGolf6953 5h ago
Cutting them from the dollar system is not the win you think it would be. China has grown to big for that too work, but the blockade will be hard, but China also knows this and so they have that enormous petroleum reserve.
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u/Clear-Role6880 5h ago
no country can afford to be cut from the dollar. No country can afford to be cut from sea trade. China is more exposed to both than many countries.
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u/SufficientGolf6953 5h ago
Cutting China from the dollar system could potentially accelerate us into a multi polar world.
Their export economy is so enormous that they will break others off the dollar system with them and begin leading a new order.
That could well happen right now. Trump has reduced our clout in the global order and we are actually vulnerable right now.
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u/Clear-Role6880 5h ago
no system is anywhere close to being able to replace the global financial system. BRICS is the closest thing and its fundamentally already failed.
this is wishful thinking on your part and the part of China.
Geography, US Navy, and the dollar are so entrenched its not replaceable without a US collapse first. There is no overtaking thats possible.
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u/SufficientGolf6953 5h ago
I'm a pretty big America homer, but even I want to caution this line of thinking.
We cannot bully China into getting what we want anymore. There is too much parity and you dismiss the Chinese as if they are not a worthy power, which is just arrogance.
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u/Nipun137 2h ago
US wouldn't dare do it. Blockade is act of war - basically an invitation of nuclear warfare.
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u/karenskygreen 5h ago
The thing about Russia, China and the Middle east is that they have a sense of history and empire. Russia (Putin) wants the USSR back and Russia has never hesitated to throw as many bodies as possible to get it. China has always seen Taiwan as part of China and they will never stop wanting it. The two countries have big long standing goals that they would be willing to sacrifice for. And well the whole fucking middle east has a long complicated history with Israel and the Palestinians being on the top of that shit pile. They have sacrificed generations and they are willing to sacrifice more.
Trump cant think past the end of his tiny dick, he just cares about making money, being his own psychopathic peace maker and blowing shit up. The americans never really made any progress in the middle east because they think they are cowboys who can ride in, guns blazing and save the day. and in turn they get played by everyone including their so called best friend Israel
Protecting and fighting for Taiwan has nothing in it for Trump, he would be doing it out of the goodness of his heart, or to protect the world from the spread of communism, trump is missing that part from his personality
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u/Phase_999 7h ago
He might sometimes try to extract more money out of Taiwan but he has, for the most part, done his best to dodge any questions about Taiwan, and he has not dismantled USA's ambiguity on the matter.
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u/seedless0 16h ago
For the right price, TACO would invade Taiwan for China.