r/washingtondc • DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill • 10d ago

[News] Capitol Bikeshare rider dies after crashing with another cyclist who ran through red light, police say

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/capitol-bikeshare-rider-dies-crashing-cyclist-ran-through-red-light-police-say/65-616c1cbe-4064-4907-9430-a6a969780c19?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot

We really need to start applying the rules of the road to cyclists, scooterers and similar road users like we do with any other driver. And that includes identifying their vehicles with plates so we can track down the reckless ones. How many need to die before we start cracking down on the entitled recklessness we can all see?

31 Upvotes

144 comments sorted by

143

u/merp_mcderp9459 10d ago

I'm fine with cops stopping cyclists who blow through red lights, but license plates for bikes is a ridiculous idea

55

u/Froqwasket DC / Adams Morgan 10d ago

MPD does virtually no traffic enforcement to begin with. I think I've seen one traffic stop in the last three years.

26

u/NappyDougOut 6d ago

Vision Zero actually means the cops don't see anything. šŸš“šŸ‘€āœØ

9

u/Electronic-Front-640 6d ago

Cop saw a guy blow a stop sign in his car and almost nail me on my bike and did NOTHING, they don’t care

2

u/partagaton 5d ago

Zero Vision

6

u/thetoigo 6d ago

THIS is the larger issue that needs to get solved first.

103

u/GoGlenMoCo 10d ago

Let’s see them enforce the road rules against car drivers first. Or even comply with them themselves.

44

u/mistersmiley318 Petworth 10d ago

Yeah, cops stopping cyclists for blowing through red lights is never going to happen if they don't even bother to do it for drivers doing the same right in front of them.

-2

u/Own_Box104 6d ago

Ok maybe they’re not going to stop every cyclist, just like they don’t stop every driver. But enforcement in high profile cases like this and some form of identification on bikes to facilitate such enforcement can absolutely influence behavior. It’s similar to drunk driving. Cops can’t prevent it from happening entirely. But awareness of the enforcement and other consequences has made it less prevalent.

40

u/merp_mcderp9459 10d ago

Yea, cars should absolutely be the higher priority

-1

u/Own_Box104 6d ago

Why is it an either or scenario? We already have plates on cars

11

u/merp_mcderp9459 6d ago

Cops have limited time and attention. A reckless driver behind the wheel can do more damage than a reckless cyclist, so the driver must be the higher priority.

Forcing plates on bikes adds a significant new expense to what's supposed to be an affordable form of transportation for very little benefit; incidents of cyclists causing major injuries to others are super rare. You solve a problem, but you create a new one, and the new problem is worse

1

u/partagaton 5d ago

That’s why we have traffic cameras, tbh. And I’d take a dozen new traffic cameras over a dozen new cops literally any day of the week.

9

u/CompetitiveAppeal663 10d ago

License plates on city bikes?!?

3

u/vec5d 4d ago

I've been stopped more times on my bike by a cop than in my car. And that was one time for doing an Idaho stop at a stop sign.

2

u/Own_Box104 6d ago

Many of the ā€œbikesā€ on the road are now motorized and weigh 100 lbs. They should 100 percent have some form of identification on them. They’re practically motorcycles. And anyway as this incident exemplifies, bikes kill and gravely injure people. There needs to be a way to identify people engaged in reckless cycling that results in injury and damage to others. Having identification on the bikes signals to the cyclists that there is accountability and works in conjunction with enforcement.

6

u/merp_mcderp9459 6d ago

Yea, afaik DC does not split out e-motos and e-bikes adequately and they should absolutely do so. They're entirely different vehicle classes. E-motos should be treated the same as regular motorcycles

And no. Costs of printing plates plus forcing all cyclists to get them does not justify the meager benefits you'd get from making some dude on a Schwinn pop up on red light cameras.

3

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

How else would a victim identify a hit-and-run cyclist or any of a dozen other sorts of situations where the police officer isn’t right there on the spot to grab the cyclist? I’m open to suggestions.

25

u/thesirensoftitans 10d ago

I’m open to suggestions.

Delete this post and move to the suburbs.

12

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

Me moving to the suburbs won’t make DC’s sidewalks and intersections safer for pedestrians. But entitled reckless cyclists moving definitely would. And so would enforcing consequences against them for not stopping or yielding safely.

I don’t even own a car. But any criticism of cyclists is immediately attacked as a car defense. You people really are a menace.

23

u/thesirensoftitans 10d ago

"You people"

There it is, implicit bias.

We really need to start applying the rules of the road to cyclists, scooterers and similar road users like we do with any other driver.

Again, you're the one who brought up enforcing bikes like they enforce cars. Which, by the way, is not at all.

11

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

I’ve made clear my meaning was cyclists should not have exceptions. Not that cars shouldn’t have rules enforced. JFC

And yes, ā€œyou peopleā€ is based on your willful misrepresentation of what I said. As if I were somehow supporting unpunished reckless driving.

18

u/thesirensoftitans 10d ago edited 10d ago

Your premise is correct, all should follow rules in society. I agree. It's just laughable to say 1 accident involving a bike should rewrite the rules of enforcement to favor attention to cyclists over the dominant offenders. That's the push back.

You stated your opinion, people don't like it.

I sincerely doubt everybody who disagrees with you is "one of those people" aka bike commuters/cyclists.

If everywhere you go smells like shit, check your own shoe.

1

u/sven_ftw DC / Wakefield 3d ago

Nah bro your idea of a licence plate is just fucking dumb and impractical and enforcement of all kinds of violations transportation modes is not performed by MPD. Singling out the one cycling accident where someone gets serious hurt or killed when there are literally hundreds of automobile and (ped or cyclist) injuries every few months is also fucked up.

The fixie rider here is an outlier and did a fucked up thing. How many fixie riders do you think there are here? They are a special breed. But sure, let's regulate the hundreds of thousands of everyone in DC because of the 15 fixie riders.

10

u/merp_mcderp9459 10d ago

Same way we identify people if they run into us on foot. If it was a significant enough collision to cause real damage, both parties are getting knocked over.

2

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

The point is to fine the reckless ones before they cause a significant collision.

9

u/merp_mcderp9459 10d ago

You have to weigh the upside of that against the downside - in this case, the costs of making every cyclist in DC install a license plate, and the reality that a lot of the speed cameras are in parts of DC without much cyclist traffic. It doesn't make sense

4

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

You’re right about the speed cameras. But we have tons of red light and stop sign cameras too. Those are the applicable ones to most of the cyclist/scooter issues. Sure, they likely can’t address the sidewalk speed issues but they’re a start on the more dangerous stuff.

1

u/Own_Box104 6d ago

Most people can’t run into you going 20+ mph

-1

u/partagaton 5d ago

Ah, so, vigilante justice and citizens arrests. Coolcoolcool.

4

u/EfficiencyIVPickAx 10d ago

Cops aren't trying to spend time on this with or without

3

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

The traffic cameras we have everywhere could ticket cyclists too if the bicycles had license plates.

5

u/EfficiencyIVPickAx 10d ago

Enforcement doesn't make anything safer. If you want safer you have to build safe bike areas. Paint and plastic sticks isn't enough

6

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

Bike lanes can’t stop cyclists and scooter users running red lights or not yielding to pedestrians or going at speed on sidewalks when there is a protected bike lane right next to the sidewalk as they do in front of my building all the time.

9

u/thesirensoftitans 10d ago

Bike commuters are legally allowed to use the sidewalk (outside of the central business district), have full use of the road, and bike lanes and are not required to use bike lanes when one is provided.

Please familiarize yourself with the laws before making incorrect assumptions.

7

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

Cyclists are legally allowed to use the sidewalks but that isn’t a blanket authorization to do anything they want on sidewalks. They have a duty to not drive at reckless speeds because they must yield to pedestrians. And the problem is the yielding to pedestrians part. Many just clip pedestrians at speed.

9

u/thesirensoftitans 10d ago edited 10d ago

Cyclists are legally allowed to use the sidewalks but that isn’t a blanket authorization to do anything they want on sidewalks. They have a duty to not drive at reckless speeds because they must yield to pedestrians.

Agreed.

Many just clip pedestrians at speed.

I can't take you seriously with comments like this.

It's obvious you have a bias against people on bikes.

4

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

Not a bias. Lived experience. As in more than once a week.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Fun_Blacksmith_8888 6d ago

Best post right here

2

u/EfficiencyIVPickAx 10d ago

Yes they can.

1

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

They literally don’t where I live. But how can they without enforcement?

2

u/EfficiencyIVPickAx 10d ago

Again, enforcement does nothing

0

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

You know what really does nothing? Not enforcing.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/ConsiderationFew4625 10d ago

Where you live, they probably have paint and plastic sticks which, the person you’re responding too already pointed out don’t make roads safer: better built bike lanes do. So saying bike lanes don’t prevent danger where you live isn’t a great counterpoint

2

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

Where I live the bike lane is between the sidewalk and the parallel parking for cars. Car lanes are beyond that and the parked cars act as barriers and when the slots are empty the car-wide space separates the bike lane from the car traffic. The bike lanes are also one-way, and there’s one next to each sidewalk going in opposite directions, the same direction as the nearest car lane. It’s difficult to imagine a more protected situation.

None of that stops them from using the sidewalks at speed or from ignoring red lights or from clipping pedestrians.

1

u/sven_ftw DC / Wakefield 3d ago

I don't agree with OP's premise but I would point out that 15th has a bi directional bike lane and M has a one directional and that is where this happened. This was the fault of a reckless fixie rider.

119

u/Zwillium 10d ago

We really need to start applying the rules of the road to cyclists, scooterers and similar road users like we do with any other driver.

What planet are you living on?

67

u/Froqwasket DC / Adams Morgan 10d ago

OP instantly flagged himself as not actually being from DC with that one

-7

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

I don’t drive in DC. I’m mostly a pedestrian and Metro user. If car drivers need more enforcement let’s do that too. But car drivers bad doesn’t mean cyclists good. That’s just whataboutism that fails to address the problem.

26

u/RepSquigglyMiggly 10d ago edited 10d ago

It’s not ā€œwhataboutismā€ when you literally said ā€œWe really need to start applying the rules of the road to cyclists, scooterers and similar road users like we do with any other driver.ā€ YOU are the one who brought automobile drivers into this and argued that we need to start enforcing laws for cyclists like we do for people driving cars (which wouldn’t change anything, because the vast majority of dangerous DC drivers never face any sort of criminal or civil consequences). If you wanted to focus on cyclists to the exclusion of drivers, YOU shouldn’t have brought drivers up apropos of nothing.

1

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

Oh is that your objection? I’ll edit the post to make sure it’s clear drivers should get enforced too. The point is they both should.

-1

u/partagaton 5d ago

It is tho. OP’s first point was that red lights should be red lights. OP is wrong about plates* but not wrong about running traffic signals. ā€œBuT tHe IdAhO sToP!ā€ Miss me with that, this happened at 15th and M, I can’t think of many parts of DC that are comparable to anywhere in Idaho or Delaware, much less anywhere in Golden Triangle or Midtown.

* maybe not for e-bikes since there’s apparently no will to regulate electric motorcycles or electric mopeds but that’s a different convo)

67

u/BenBradleesLaptop 10d ago

Yeah go sit down OP. In the last 10 years 2 people on bikes have killed someone in DC meanwhile no less than 354 people in vehicles have killed someone over the same period in DC.

-9

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

Death isn’t the only consequence of the increasingly overt cyclist recklessness in DC. We just don’t have a lot of stats on the other consequences because there are no repercussions to most of them.

9

u/placeperson NW 5d ago

Death isn't the only consequence of cars either

65

u/dybr 10d ago

DC can’t even track down or enforce laws on reckless licensed car drivers - you think there’s state capacity to do this with bicycles? What would that even look like? Would skateboards and roller skates have to get license plates too?

Weewoo call the police! There’s a 12-year-old on an un-plated bicycle!

Get real.

14

u/Froqwasket DC / Adams Morgan 10d ago

What, you don't think our "pay what you want" enforcement system for cars with literally hundreds of tickets is working lol

15

u/harpsm 10d ago

Shit, DC, MD, and VA don't even seem to do anything about the unlicensed drivers and unregistered vehicles on the road, and OP wants them to start enforcing bike registration?!

2

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

Two wrongs don’t make a right. We need ways to ID reckless cyclists. And we should enforce traffic laws better against drivers too. Many of the cars with the long list of unpaid tickets aren’t registered in DC. But the cyclists are likelier to be residents or at least to have rented the bike here. And if we can ID them at least we can prevent the reckless ones from renting again.

13

u/dybr 10d ago edited 10d ago

Nobody said that anything close to that - you are arguing with an imaginary point because you cannot deal with reality. That’s why everybody in this thread is making fun of you, not because we’re like ā€œawesome, run red lights to stick it to the drivers!ā€ It doesn’t seem like you have the self-awareness to understand that.

Get out of your weird moral absolutes and think about where the rubber meets the road. Cars are responsible for around 95% of all traffic accidents in the district, and responsible for nearly all fatal ones.

We have a robust regime to track licensed drivers and their vehicles, and a legal system set up to penalize or prosecute violators. They are large and pretty easy to track, and we have cameras all over the place that do so and automatically issue tickets. People rack up nearly six digits in fines and will still go unpunished for years if ever. The cameras will record them every day at the exact same intersection at around the same time for months going 20 over, and yet there’s no enforcement despite them being incredibly predicable.

With this extreme lack of will and resources to go after the most dangerous offenders, you propose we expend the limited capacity of the local government to design, build, and maintain a registration system for another 200-500,000+ significantly more difficult vehicles to track that don’t even require a license to operate? All to go after not even a percent of fatal traffic accidents?

10

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

And what is your proposal to deal with a palpably growing recklessness problem that has now turned deadly?

We’ve already spent untold amounts creating infrastructure for cyclists that keep demanding more of it. And that’s fine. We’ll likely spend more. But they should be required to use it and use it safely. Not turn around and then encroach on pedestrian areas; or run red lights or stop signs whether or not there are bike lanes.

Bike lanes exist to allow cyclists to travel faster because they are safer. But that speed cones with responsibility. All human interactions do.

My issue is many cyclists posit a one-way policy focus; where investing in their safety and convenience is always important, but investing in preventing or punishing their recklessness and dangerous behaviors to pedestrians and other cyclists is beyond the pale. We pay taxes too.

9

u/dybr 10d ago

Once again you’re deflecting because you are completely divorced from reality.

I never claimed to have a solution for the less than 1% of fatal traffic accidents - you did. Have you forgotten you’re the OP?And when asked how it would possibly work in reality, you deflect and go off on inane screeds nobody cares about nor is arguing.

I don’t know how to explain this to you more simply without making it childish - the DC government has a limited budget. When you have a limited budget, you have to be strategic about your spending and ensure you are getting the maximum return for your dollar. It seems ā€œone-wayā€ to you because you are seemingly incapable of understanding this, while everybody else around you is. You want to reallocate limited resources from going after the most frequent and dangerous offenders to the least dangerous.

We are not against the concept of enforcement, we are against what would be, as taxpayers, a terrible misallocation of limited resources that makes our streets more unsafe.

Imagine the uproar the city would face if the next time a driver with $100,000 in fines flips their car and rams into a restaurant killing 4 people, they have to say ā€œwell we reallocated resources to go after teenagers going the wrong way up bike lanes instead.ā€

15

u/A_Damn_Millenial 6d ago

Current DC law is sufficient as it allows Idaho stops - this means the cyclist that ran the red light broke that law. Plain & simple.

Changing the law to require plates, registration, & licensing is not the answer as it does not resolve the problem of the intersection design that creates conflict between directions of travel.

-4

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 6d ago

The cyclist who ran the light and killed the other cyclist broke the law, I agree. And that one will hopefully be charged because it is quite clear who he is.

But I’m trying to prevent this stuff from happening. And when it doesn’t cause a collision that prevents the cyclist or scooterist from continuing, there’s no way to fine them for breaking the law or even to identify them. If there is a reliable way, please tell me what it is. And why you think the problem seems to be increasing despite it.

Intersection design wasn’t the problem here or in most cases, though it might be in some. There was a red light. There’s no intersection design that can prevent reckless behavior.

The other day a cyclist friend tells me he saw a cyclist t-bone a car turning right from 1st St SE into N St SE. The driver had a green light. So did the cyclist. Both had been driving southbound. The cyclist was on the protected bike lane. My cyclist friend was struck by the fact that he says there was no way the driver could have seen the cyclist before or even while turning, because the parked cars that protect the bike lane would have blocked the driver’s view. That’s an intersection design problem. And it stems from the well-meaning intent to create a protected bike lane. But the issues I’m talking about are behavior related and require identifying the person who behaved recklessly.

5

u/A_Damn_Millenial 6d ago

It’s definitely clear that we both (and probably most folks responding to your post) want to prevent tragedies like this from happening, and I appreciate your willingness to discuss this in good faith.

That being said, I’d much prefer to live in a world with less surveillance and without fear of our government. Giving them additional tools to track and find pedestrians is not going to end well - especially since walking and cycling is liberal-coded. We know that we can’t trust law enforcement to ONLY use registration/tracking tools for hit & run collisions, so I’d rather not give those fascists another inch.Ā 

Instead, I would rather have our government spend resources on a built environment that makes it harder for these types of tragedies to happen, even when folks are reckless.

While it’s true that there is no intersection design that prevents reckless behavior, there are absolutely designs out there that reduce the number of conflicts and/or reduce the level of danger when conflicts arise.

Might I suggest a book, There Are No Accidents by Jesse Singer. I think you might find it interesting. It goes much deeper into the design aspect of our built environment than a Reddit comment ever could.Ā 

3

u/EquivalentVermicelli 6d ago

In addition to better built environments, better and more rigorous driver training and enforcement is a start. Any driver deviating from a straight line should shoulder check (lane changes, turns, etc) that would have solved the right turn across a bike lane.

-6

u/partagaton 5d ago

Idaho stops seem great for places like Idaho. Not for places like 15th and M St NW.

4

u/A_Damn_Millenial 5d ago

With all due respect, I don’t think you know what an Idaho Stop is or how DC’s version of the law is written.

To summarize: A bike rider intending to go through or left at an intersection must stop and wait at red traffic signals for the green OR pedestrian signal.

The exception is when DDOT has posted signage expressly permitting through or left movements on red at that intersection, and that the rider makes a complete stop; determines there is no immediate hazard; and yields the right-of-way to pedestrians and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

As far as I’m aware, DDOT does not have any signs at that intersection allowing the exception. The rider who went through the red broke the law.

-4

u/partagaton 5d ago

I completely understand it, so let me be clear. The appropriate policy at places like 15th and M is one that does not leave such decisions up to the discretion of the cyclist, and if they want to cross with a pedestrian signal they can dismount and walk the bike like... a pedestrian. I've been in too many close calls where such signalization is present, and the lack of simple clarity in the implementation is part of the problem.

5

u/A_Damn_Millenial 5d ago

Can you elaborate on what you mean by not leaving decisions up to the discretion of the cyclist? I’m not sure how that applies at 15th & M if the law dictates that the cyclists should have stopped on red.

The only discretion I can think of is if they chose whether or not follow the very simple and unambiguous law of stopping at a red light. If you think that’s too much discretion for somebody operating a vehicle, then holy shit, wait till you hear about car drivers.

0

u/partagaton 5d ago

Two intertwined problems. One, the more distantly related one, is that if "the rider ... determines there is no immediate hazard" is a threshold that leaves a whole lot up to the rider's discretion. In other contexts, like prohibiting RTOR, we have correctly realized that driver discretion is pretty bad! In the context of cycling, none of this thread would be happening if there weren't a similarly shared recognition that an unacceptably high share of cyclists exercise poor discretion when it comes to handling intersections.

The more proximate one, I think, is clarity of traffic rules. A very good thing about banning RTOR is that it's system-wide. There's just no RTOR, unless specifically indicated. People are not good at remembering lots of rules and exceptions. It's why you get memes about how board gamers and tabletop fans are weird nerds who love rules. Most people don't handle rules well. For most people, "stop signs mean stop, yes you," is much clearer direction to give, and is easier to enforce because of its clarity.

That, and for those things we really do want to and should leave to driver/rider discretion, that discretion just cannot be exercised without taking the time to exercise it.

1

u/A_Damn_Millenial 4d ago

I think we’d all prefer if cyclists were taking fewer risks and there were fewer rules to keep track of. However, the solution isn’t to make cycling worse via more rules.

Dismount and walk the bike at the pedestrian signal? That is just laughable and am not going to take that seriously.

Cyclists stopping at every sign even though it’s clear? I understand how that can appear reasonable, but in reality it’s a terrible riding experience in dense environments and likely leads to more collisions, so no thanks.

DC’s rules are adequate., but the design of the built environment is poor due to how much land we’ve ceded to the automobile. There are too many cars which results in not enough room & money for pedestrian infrastructure that would reduce the amount of risks some cyclists chose to take.

0

u/partagaton 4d ago

That is just laughable and am not going to take that seriously.

I hope you know that DC is in the minority in allowing cyclists to ride through crosswalks. Your reaction does a lot to exemplify why pedestrian-specific advocates are often skeptical of cycling advocates. But in most places, it's not more rules at all. It's just... the rules. Wanna ride through the intersection? Red means red. Wanna ride through people and have to avoid hitting them? There's a safe way to do that too. Wanna be an asshat who doesn't realize that you can kill and injure people too? Coolcoolcool.

but the design of the built environment is poor due to how much land we’ve ceded to the automobile.

On the topic of comments that shouldn't be taken seriously... This happened on 15th and M. Where there is a dedicated bike lane on the westbound one-way, and a bidirectional protected bike lane on the N/S bound street. This is not an intersection where "the built environment needs to be better" will do more work than "have better traffic rules."

1

u/A_Damn_Millenial 4d ago

>Wanna ride through the intersection? Red means red.

That’s literally the Idaho stop law and is adequate. Glad you’re on my side now.

>Wanna ride through people and have to avoid hitting them? There's a safe way to do that too. Wanna be an asshat who doesn't realize that you can kill and injure people too? Coolcoolcool.

Bro, you ok? Wtf are you talking about?

>This happened on 15th and M. Where there is a dedicated bike lane on the westbound one-way, and a bidirectional protected bike lane on the N/S bound street. This is not an intersection where "the built environment needs to be better" will do more work than "have better traffic rules."

You’ve yet to explain how the existing stopping at red instead of passing through an intersection is an inadequate rule.

Kinda feels like you just hate cyclists. Kinda sucks cuz we shouldn’t be beefing - we should be united against cars, but whatever. Stay mad.

2

u/partagaton 4d ago

šŸ‘

53

u/jambr380 10d ago

It's a really unfortunate situation, but this is more of a freak accident than a common occurrence. Cars are still infinitely more dangerous to bike riders and pedestrians.

It's more of an issue with electric bikes than manual bikes. And while I agree that bikes should generally follow traffic laws, as long as bikes are careful and make sure to slow down and check that nobody is coming at an intersection, I don't really care. It's the ones that cruise through red lights at 30mph without a care in the world that are dangerous

-1

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

Like I also don’t care most of the time a car doesn’t come to a complete stop at a stop sign when they think nobody’s around. The problem is when they’re wrong.

9

u/RaTerrier VA / Neighborhood 10d ago

The cops aren’t going to ticket cyclists who blow through red lights or stop signs at busy intersections. That’s hard work. If they’re told to start prioritizing ticketing cyclists, they’re going to ticket cyclists who roll through a stop sign at 5MPH at an empty intersection, just like they used to in the 2010s.

That and stopping black male cyclists for things like not having a bell (the dumbest law on the books) or riding without a helmet or being adjacent to a car.

25

u/runningonempty94 10d ago

Let’s up overall enforcement big time, and make car vs bike enforcement proportional to how many people they kill

14

u/Froqwasket DC / Adams Morgan 10d ago

And don't get OP started on those darned jaywalkers!

9

u/dybr 10d ago

Fuck it, let’s require pedestrians to wear helmets with license plates on them while I cruise 55mph down 16th.

35

u/Current_Department73 10d ago

ah yes, that's why drivers are so cautious and accountable

-19

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

Whataboutism about driver recklessness when someone points to documented cyclist recklessness is about as convincing as reflexively referencing October 7 when someone says Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

3

u/Fun_Blacksmith_8888 6d ago

WTF

-1

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 6d ago

I was doing hyperbole. I came up with a better analogy in another thread. The point is we need to be able to talk about this without it getting derailed by car talk every time.

I can walk you through the analogy if it would help.

8

u/Froqwasket DC / Adams Morgan 10d ago

Uhh....

12

u/RepSquigglyMiggly 10d ago

Genuinely insane and disgusting reach to make in defense of your shitty Reddit post

9

u/notquiteahippo 10d ago

Beyond the absolutely deranged comparison, here is what you wrote:

We really need to start applying the rules of the road to cyclists, scooterers and similar road users like we do with any other driver

Well, guess what? We already enforce the rules of the road against cyclists the same amount we do against any other driver (we don't)

-2

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

I was being colloquial not praising MPD’s enforcement against car drivers. Two wrongs don’t make a right. There should be stopping and yielding rules for all, with no special exceptions for cyclists or scooter users. All should follow the rules. And they should be enforced against all.

9

u/dybr 10d ago

Seek help.

4

u/Talibus_insidiis 10d ago

What a terrible thing.

20

u/thesirensoftitans 10d ago edited 10d ago

We really need to start applying the rules of the road to cyclists, scooterers and similar road users like we do with any other driver

So, not at all. Got it.

How many need to die before we start cracking down on the entitled recklessness we can all see?

You talking about cars here?

Edit: I do want to support one thing here; ALL CYCLISTS should stop at red lights. I am a daily bike commuter and follow traffic rules to an absolute T. I really wish everybody else did as well because idiots make us look terrible.

However, they can't or won't enforce cars driving illegally so I think the process of enforcing bikes is a very very long shot.

Taxing and tagging bikes is an awful idea. For many reasons.

3

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

I didn’t propose taxing bikes. Tagging them is needed for ID purposes. But I’m open to suggestions on other means.

I was also being colloquial in the ā€œany other driverā€ language; not commenting on MPD’s current level of enforcement against drivers. I just want cyclists to have to follow (and to follow) the same rules, especially as to stopping and yielding.

5

u/thesirensoftitans 10d ago

There are different rules for cyclists and drivers.

Feel free to peruse this handy guide.

Colloquial or not, you've completely missed the point.

3

u/Moonagi DC / Sixteenth Street Heights 4d ago

Ā  We really need to start applying the rules of the road to cyclists, scooterers and similar road users like we do with any other driver

We don’t apply driver rules here

1

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 4d ago

We should do that too.

5

u/jrstriker12 10d ago

According to the DC Vision Zero dashboard, DC has experienced 21 traffic fatalities in 2025 to date — 13 were pedestrians and one was on a bicycle — and 266 major injuries.


Pedestrians in Washington, D.C., remain at serious risk even as overall traffic deaths declined in 2025. New data show that 25 people were killed in traffic crashes in the District in 2025, down from 52 deaths in 2024, a sharp year-to-year drop.

Even with that decline, pedestrians in the D.C. area were twice as likely to be killed in 2025 as they were a decade earlier,

8

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 10d ago

I’m a pedestrian. I don’t own a car. I’m not defending car drivers. I’m demanding accountability from reckless cyclists and scooter users.

3

u/Certain-Researcher72 6d ago

Problem is you're preaching to the choir.Ā 

0

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 6d ago

How so?

6

u/Certain-Researcher72 6d ago

99.999% of the bad actors are screaming around on free Lime bikes or overpowered delivery rigs. I have yet to read a single comment here taking up the "no, people should act like douchebags" side of the argument.

Having said all that, licensing cyclists is silly and of course you're going to get pushback.

1

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 6d ago

Yes, I realize licensing sounds silly but many (most?) of these vehicles are now motorized and can achieve and sustain much faster speeds for more people than before. I don’t know how fast cars and motorcycles were before we decided to require licenses but these things are pretty fast. There’s a line in the movie Parenthood (IIRC) where Keanu Reeves’ character goes into how you even need a license to catch a fish. His point was about parenthood but the example highlights that deadly danger isn’t the only criterion we use for establishing licenses.

I’ve said several times I welcome other feasible solutions, but nobody has provided anything other than snidely telling me to move out of the city. So I appreciate that you at least acknowledge the fact that for all the downvotes and whataboutisms, nobody engages with the actual problem: the growing subset of cyclists and scooterers who behave like douchebags in ways that endanger others or at least needlessly make life that much more obnoxious for everyone around them.

I was reading your response on the Metro and as I got out of the station on Half St SE a guy in a Veo(?) bike was zigzagging around pedestrians on the sidewalk as if they were the poles on a slalom course. He didn’t hit anyone. Nobody visibly complained. But do we really want that to be the ongoing daily experience for pedestrians on the sidewalk?

I stood to the side to type this and two kids got on a Lime scooter together and sped off. Isn’t it supposed to be one per scooter and no kids? I’m pretty sure if I stood here a while with a camera I’d see much more questionable behavior just on this one corner.

1

u/OhYouUnzippedMe 4d ago

How many posts have you made about careless drivers? Because i see zero on your profile.

1

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 4d ago

I have complained in comments like this one. But I shouldn’t have to complain about other things to validate this complaint.

2

u/doyouwantsomecocoa 5d ago

So you said we really need to start applying the rules when the f*** did they ever stop applying to m************ bike riders.

3

u/jnwatson DC / West End 10d ago

I've been bike/scootering to work for the last 6 months until my accident (which is a whole different story). I've definitely had more close calls with other e-cyclists than cars or pedestrians.

13

u/thesirensoftitans 10d ago

Well, I've been biking in DC for over a decade and I've had more issues with cars. So....let's go with facts and science over anecdotes, mmkay?

12

u/RepSquigglyMiggly 10d ago

I’m gonna go ahead and trust traffic accident and fatality rates over your personal experience.

-1

u/IncredibleVelocity4 10d ago

Shhhhhh. You are disrupting the predominant narrative with your first hand experience.

7

u/thesirensoftitans 10d ago

My first hand experience over a decade here as a bike commuter in DC is that cars are more of an issue. Guess we should go with my experience if we're counting anecdotes as fact since I have more experience, right?

3

u/ostuberoes 10d ago

this is a particularly stupid version of this comment

1

u/OhYouUnzippedMe 4d ago

My first hand experience is that cars are way more dangerous than cyclists. This is why we base policy on data, not anecdotes.

2

u/Puzzled_Fisherman331 10d ago

Helmets either one? Sad to hear this.

2

u/Technical_Comb_7332 10d ago

Bike & scooter riders in Old Town Alexandria seem to be daring motorists to hit them; no regard for any red lights or stop signs.

1

u/popphilosophy 4d ago

Was the victim wearing a helmet?

1

u/sven_ftw DC / Wakefield 3d ago

No, a license plate does not fit on a fucking bike and how well is that working out for the cars anyway with the temp tags?

1

u/highriskhillbomb 3d ago

no one should die, but this is basically a non-issue. how many have died as a result of being hit by a bike or scooter?Ā 

1

u/topdomino DC / Navy Yard / Capitol Hill 1d ago

Go read up on medical journals what they have to say about scooters.

1

u/highriskhillbomb 14h ago

you didn't read my comment. i agree scooters are dangerous for their riders, but we're talking about a different thing.Ā 

1

u/TargetNo5172 5d ago

i agree op, i chose to move away from eckington bc having to use the mdt to commute was too dangerous as a walker. i would have really close calls, and as someone who has worked in an icu and seen bike TBIs, it wasn’t worth it for me. i also had teens intentionally fake me out like they were gonna hit me head on, and then try to bail at the last minute. it’s unfortunate that bc bikes are targeted by cars, they target walkers. i also have to do a triple check at all lights for bikes. i hate bikes on sidewalks and they should slow down to pass rather than make me jump off he sidewalk. i’m not from dc, not going to stay, just have some standards for ped safety than ppl in this thread.

5

u/Certain-Researcher72 5d ago

Is this a "bikes" problem or a "teens on free mopeds" problem. In my experience it's the latter.

1

u/TargetNo5172 5d ago

bikes - only one instance was teens. otherwise it’s adults going by quickly on bikes.

0

u/Certain-Researcher72 5d ago

So "adults on mopeds" problem.

1

u/TargetNo5172 5d ago

bicycles don’t need engines to be dangerous- i worked with a man who fell off his bicycle 10 years prior not wearing a helmet and was still working on saying his name. if you do ride a bicycle, you should wear a helmet. i just don’t want to have to wear a helmet as a walker. in other countries, on trails like mbt there would be a bike lane with lines for either direction, a small runner lane, and a walker lane. be safe out there!