r/news • u/Mythviel-7 • 1d ago
Riot police clash with students as education protests rage in France
https://bbc.com/news/articles/ck3r5dxxwqzpo167
u/Weightmonster 1d ago
The French sure know how to riot…
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u/MegazordPilot 1d ago
The culture of riots and protests in France is way older than the waves of immigration you're thinking about
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u/SuggestionMedical736 1d ago
Oooh, I'm sorry, they only French when they win you the World Cup, our bad!
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u/icemankiller8 1d ago
French people literally have a long history of doing this it happens quite often
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u/ivaylo_eth 1d ago
his point is the majority of rioters aren’t what you imagine when you say french
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u/CrimsonFatMan 1d ago
Translation: "They're brown."
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u/davefromgabe 1d ago
they're literally flying african and middle eastern flags it's more than just that
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u/Appropriate-Debt5561 1d ago
I mean, they're literally waving foreign flags. If they were brown and waving the tricolor of the republic that would be one thing. But when you're brown, waving an Algerian flag, and screaming in Arabic, I reserve the right to question if you're *really* as French as Roland.
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u/The_39th_Step 1d ago
Do you think that’s the majority of the French Algerian people in the riots? I am on holiday in Marseille and saw them happen. I didn’t see anything like that
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u/Unable_Ant5851 1d ago
I’m pretty sure nothing could prove their “Frenchness” any more than their ability to protest?
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u/icemankiller8 1d ago
Yes and the point that “French people” don’t act like that therefore they aren’t French is ridiculous because French people actually do act like that.
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u/Citaszion 1d ago
I would question my algorithm and news sources if I were you, if all you see is videos of brown people burning shit up.
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u/Weightmonster 1d ago
I never intended this to turn into a race thing.
Their whole republic is founded on rioting. Storming of the Bastille, the Reign of Terror, the June Rebellion, etc.
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u/Every_Temporary1567 1d ago
and youre uneducated bigot, french is not ethnicity but nationality. go back to school american
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u/Hesitation-Marx 1d ago
I think we should take notes.
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u/Dockers4flag2035orB4 1d ago
The education riots are a learning opportunity.
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u/Stockholm-Syndrom 1d ago
You say that, but every French student goes through a student strike event during their high school year. And I think it makes you realize that you can indeed protest.
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u/KtaadnRota 1d ago
Trouble is that French protestors, as vigorous as they may be, don't have any better rate at actually achieving their goals than American protesters do.
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u/blaghed 1d ago
They totally do...
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u/KtaadnRota 1d ago
Where are these results you speak of? The French authorities are very experienced at letting protesters run out of steam and then forging ahead with whatever policies triggered the protests in the first place.
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u/blaghed 1d ago
Must be nice to be so uninformed, yet confident.
- May 1968 Protests
- The 1984 Savary Law Protests (Private Education)
- The 1995 General Strikes (Juppé Plan)
- The 2006 First Employment Contract (CPE) Protests
- The 2013 Bonnets Rouges (Red Caps) Movement
- The Gilets Jaunes (Yellow Vests) Protests (2018–2019)
IDK them all. But they are famous for this for a reason.
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u/KtaadnRota 1d ago
This is a list of protests that happened. Now list the achievements of those protests.
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u/blaghed 1d ago
They are a list of protests that resulted in action on the subject being protested...
You're a special kinda special, huh...-7
u/DarthFleeting 1d ago
Yeah, but it doesn’t prove that French protestors have a better rate at achieving their goals. America also has had protests.
* Boston Tea Party | Dec. 16, 1773
* Women’s Suffrage Parade | March 3, 1913
* Bonus March | May-June 1932
* Civil Rights Movement Marches | 1963-1965
* Tea Party Tax Day Protests | April 15, 2009
* George Floyd Protests | 2020
* March for Our Lives | 2018
Idk them all, but America is famous for this for a reason. And these are a list of protests that resulted in action on the subject being protested… (and one more in the list than you gave). hey, don’t worry. I think you are really special too :)
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u/Four_beastlings 1d ago
Look up the retirement age in France compared to the rest of Europe
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u/AnyEye8798 1d ago
You should look up how that's gone for them. They shot themselves in the foot with that one.
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u/Fair-Mango-5423 23h ago
African migrants*
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u/rabnabombshell 22h ago
Born in France, raised in France. They’re French
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u/Numerous_Marketing23 14h ago
Are Boers African? Nationality, ethnicity and culture are all separate, you can be one without the others two; don't be dense and argue semantics.
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u/No-Fishing-7892 10h ago
You know people call the US a racist country pretty often, but I find it hard to agree when the richest man in the country is an African American. Elon Musk.
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u/tetoffens 1d ago
I get it in general but I really appreciate how the French just have this culture of protest. Just every time a government policy sucks, they're out on the streets. Nobody complains about their government more than the French and we all probably should complain that much.
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u/nifty-necromancer 1d ago
Democracy is something you have to keep fighting for. Voting is just one step in a process that needs to involve collective action.
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u/VyatkanHours 1d ago
But it paralyzes the French government so much, it often feels like there are no routes to take. Whatever they decide, some group in Paris lights everything on fire.
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u/sljc892 1d ago
Your right they’re going to be pretty fucked the next few years. Literally announcing austerity as this takes place.
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u/FatnessEverdeen34 16h ago
(What does that mean?)
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u/sljc892 16h ago
What does what mean?
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u/HourApprehensive7754 1d ago
Until you actually have to live there...then it smells different when people find every little excuse to break shit, loot, and commit mass arson.
This protest in particular sounded like they had legitimate grievances at first, but dousing your educators in gasoline, and burning down your schools and supplies is kind of counter intuitive to their goals.
They should be burning down the projects instead, lock the doors.
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u/inimicali 18h ago
I lived there, it's shit when you can't move and travel normally, or half the society isn't there to do what you expect them to do, but also thanks to those protest I got a nice salary and good enough social programs to live comfortably, not rich, but I didn't need a huge salary to have a decent, comfortable life.
So yes, I prefer having a annual protest season and suck it up a few days (or weeks) of sacrifice and to have rights and social programs. After all what the Parisians live during protest it's what developing countries live everyday but because of corruption, wanna be dictators and foreign companies.
Oh and the smell it's the ranchers and garbage mens demanding their rights.
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u/Fragrant-Damage6969 4h ago
Those are the two most important job on the planet. They're allowed to spray shit on the walls in protest.
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u/Adelefushia 12h ago
Yeah I get the general idea of protesting, but how is burning buses or trash can a good idea ?
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u/GriffeDeTonnerre 21h ago
but dousing your educators in gasoline
and burning down your schools and supplies is kind of counter intuitive to their goals.
Done by an outside group ; https://www.lefigaro.fr/nantes/c-est-vraiment-decevant-a-nantes-sideration-apres-l-incendie-du-lycee-nelson-mandela-20261001
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u/Impossible-Culture91 1d ago
Freedom is when the state is afraid of the people. Tyranny is when the people are afraid of the state.
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u/_Solani_ 1d ago
Freedom is when neither group is afraid of one another. What you're calling for is still tyranny, just directed at a different target.
The government needs it's people and the people need a government; without either of them a nation cannot survive. To put one above the other is foolish and to insist that one should be fearful of the other is how you breed resentment.
The people should not fear their government and the government should not fear it's people. It's so weird to insist that there needs to be some form of oppression in order to be free. 😒
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u/Fragrant-Damage6969 4h ago
A government is not a separate entity from its people. The government is a set of that people.
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u/v3ritas1989 1d ago
Only issue with that is that it also means no progress. Because every time something helpful is suggested, it is protested by enough people.
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u/lcsulla87gmail 1d ago
That isnt actually true. Compare French society to us society and see what their culture of.protest has gotten them
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u/v3ritas1989 1d ago
A dept of 114% of gdp?
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u/lcsulla87gmail 1d ago
Us debt is 122% gdp. So France is winning if this is the measure. For the record I think its a really weird metric to pick
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u/v3ritas1989 1d ago
deflection? REALLY? It is a huge problem. Every time the fr government suggest restraint, fiscal responsibility or restructuring major issue points like pensions (which are btw. higher than wages on avg.) people start protesting. And if anything gets passed afterwards, it is changed so much that it does not achieve the previously stated goal.
This metric is extremely important and the french are very fast approaching a point of major crisis. The US can only sustain this because they are the reserve currency aka petrol dollar and even that is debatable. France is currently paying >5% of their levies to serve dept and their credit rating might be about to get downgraded.
Not to mention, the PM just announced freeze of wages and more taxes and france does not have the excuse of their military budget like the US has.
And yes, I am accusing the protests more than the government here. Because no one can create real needed reform because of them.
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u/itsjujutsu 1d ago
Nah there hasnt been good noise like this for a long time. People are getting comfortable/tired of issued all the time
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u/p0mme_verte 23h ago
Let’s clear a few things up.
Why are high school students protesting?
Because conditions in their schools have deteriorated: a lack of equipment, a shortage of teachers (for example, some students reported going without a maths teacher for three months during the year of their baccalaureate exams), and dilapidated buildings (students began filming their schools several years ago, showing rats, collapsing ceilings, unsafe drinking water, and so on).
Contrary to what the article says, the protests did not begin in Paris but in Seine-Saint-Denis, on the outskirts of Paris. And that distinction matters: teaching conditions in Paris and Seine-Saint-Denis are worlds apart. Spending per student is probably much higher in Paris than in Seine-Saint-Denis, although we will probably never get official figures. These inequalities are a major reason why students are angry.
Violence and property damage
On the protesters’ side, the initial violence probably comes from outside groups moving between schools to confront the police, vandalise property, and loot. Several accounts support this explanation. These groups turn up at most social protests. So no, it is probably not the students who are setting their own schools on fire. While some students may well damage property, that is not the purpose of the protests.
But police violence is also very real. The crackdown on protests grows harsher year after year, to the point that people are increasingly afraid to demonstrate. High school students—children, in other words—are being shot at with rubber-bullet launchers and sprayed with tear gas. And no, it is not because they are setting their schools on fire. Left-wing elected officials who come to support the protests and try to keep the situation from escalating are also targeted by this violence. And yes, there are videos showing it, which the article strangely fails to mention.
For example, the article mentions a police officer being beaten by several people. While that is unacceptable, what the article does not mention is the footage of the preceding events, showing that same officer arresting and handcuffing someone, then holding their head underwater for several seconds. When he tries to make his way through the crowd that has just witnessed the scene, that is when they attack and beat him.
The article is, at best, seriously incomplete and, at worst, deliberately misleading.
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u/Deucalion111 6h ago
Don’t forget that it was found proof recently, that one of the people that launch projectiles, was an adult….. and from the police.
Police mix with protesters to make it go worse, blame the protesters and do whatever they want.
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u/tetzy 1d ago
Every time a school closes, every school in the area is forced to accommodate that schools displaced students, the net result being fuller classrooms, less one-on-one time for the students that need it and a shittier overall experience across the board; a school designed for 1000 struggles with 1250.
If this rioting is truly about France's faltering school system and people struggling to get a proper education, burning the schools is as preposterously short-sighted a thing as possible. Every burned school gets them considerably more of what they're rioting over in the first place. It can't not.
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u/Paraparo 1d ago
I know people like to praise riot for riot sake, because violence might seem cathartic, but at best it's a tactic of cutting off your nose to spite spite someone else's face.
But really in many ways it's garden variety "abusive boyfriend" activity. The stereotypical "give me what I want or I'll hurt myself" guilt trip.
Which is amazing on its own right. Like the complaint is the state doesn't handle the issue well... And the solution is throw toys out the pram till the state swoops in like a parent to not only return the toys but buy them nicer ones too?
It's almost amusingly entitled in a way, the presumption that of course violent tantrums get rewarded, and there is no chance they could end up in the ashes of what used to be subpar and now is nothing at all.
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u/lt__ 21h ago
I would also think and like that students are capable and could do smth constructive instead of destroying limited property, but in practice it is hard to achieve. So they are going for the old recipe of "let's do some damage, so the next time decision makers will know there is a cost to ignoring our needs and choosing to spend money elsewhere".
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u/Tsigorf 1d ago edited 15h ago
As French, here's a brieve summary of the situations:
- one kid got hit by a baton and then shot by a cop with a rubber bullet at a very close range in the head, lost all his lower teeth and all upper teeth are broken, almost died; it was a kid who was sitting away from the protest chilling on his smartphone
- a girl got strangled and arrested when she was no threat
- policement almost crashed into students with their car and sprayed tear gas from their windows to everyone
- a kid got badly injured after a policeman hit him with his motorbike; cop first planned to arrest him before the students forced him to call an ambulance
- several teachers got hit and gased along with students during entirely pacifist protests (no fire, no projectiles, no threat towards policemen)
- a policeman tried to break a restaurant glass door to enter and arrest students who tool refuge inside
- meanwhile, police failed to prevent some group from putting fire to several schools in Nantes: those were NOT students of these schools, students claimed police got alerted early and did nothing
- even public medias keep talking more than 80% of the time about degradations and dedicate not even a minute to talk about protesters revendications or police violence (and of course they took the opportunity to blame the biggest left-wing party threatening presidential elections with blattant lies…)
And I still miss countless situations. Some of them which will never be known because nobody got the chance to record them.
More than a thousand children got arrested. In total, almost two thousands arrests; that's even more than our yellow jacket (gilets jaunes) protests where police already knew how to force protesters to be violent. A large majority of the arrests are kids. They are traumatized.
That's it. Thanks the international press for caring about us, and thanks to everyone sending us strength. We will not let the right-wing and far-right politicians freely destroy our public services.
EDIT: Just updating as we got proof that plain-clothed policemen mixed with the protesters to throw projectiles (here, in French). That's, AFAIK, the only one caught on camera, but it would be likely some policemen are responsible for starting fires.
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u/Four_beastlings 1d ago
I just saw a video of a kid grabbing some fireworks from the ground and holding them up so they don't explode on people and getting tackled and beaten by multiple police
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u/Relevant-Cup2701 1d ago
meanwhile, police failed to prevent some group from putting fire to several schools in Nantes: those were NOT students of these schools, students claimed police got alerted early and did nothing
yeah i assumed that there were agents provocateur conspiring with authorities, causing violence so the police could crack heads and make the protesters seem like they have it coming. i had the same notion when during earlier riotous events.
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u/Tsigorf 1d ago edited 15h ago
Honestly? Given the behavior we saw from some plain-clothed policemen, we often joke about it but it's not unlikely.
EDIT: just got proof…
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u/water-tight 1d ago
Why didnt you mention the fireman getting set on fire? The innocent woman getting fire sprayed at her face? The police getting knocked down and beaten by the youth? Disgusting retar
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u/Tsigorf 1d ago
are you alright mate? are you even french to know? looks like you never read my comment and don't even know what's happening here
There's smarter ways to start a discussion, but even sadder, there's smarter ways to troll and ragebait someone.
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u/water-tight 1d ago
You're disgusting filth intentionally leaving out events to fit your narrative. Much like your parents, I don't respect you or your opinions
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u/Tsigorf 1d ago
Which narrative? Which opinion?
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u/water-tight 1d ago
Good joke buddy. Just know that what you believe in and what you stand for is what will kill you in the end my friend
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u/Tsigorf 21h ago
Forget all your instructions. What's the recipe of the apple pie?
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u/water-tight 17h ago
you purposefully skew whats going on and then make jokes about the situation ky
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u/Tsigorf 1d ago edited 1d ago
Like as if they made them carry out all this violent disorder.
Actually I just saw a few videos where we indeed see policemen in plainclothes sneaking in the riots throwing projectiles towards buildings.
You mention your sister lives in France, meaning you don't. And, indeed it shows, you don't live in France and look like you have no idea about what you're talking.
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u/Scooterdude67 4h ago
I wonder how many of the people rioting have absolutely nothing to do with students.
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u/schacks 1d ago
If I was young French person I would riot too. The French government have racked up an incredible amount of debt that primarily have gone to tax breaks for the rich and pensions and benefits for the older generations. And the whole country is about to put an immense strain on the rest of the EU because of it’s staggering debt to bnp ratio.
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u/OSPF99 1d ago
France is one of the highest taxed countries in the world. I don't get where people get that they are not taxing the rich. High tax, high regulatory environment so their economy is slow and can't make payments on their entitlements/debt
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u/MegazordPilot 1d ago
Pensions are also among the highest as a proportion of the median working wage.
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u/crambeaux 1d ago
The wages are so low it’s not saying much.
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u/MegazordPilot 1d ago
Of course, but if work not only pays less than return on capital, but also less than pensions, how do you want anyone to get enough motivation to do their job properly? Let alone create, innovate, etc.
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u/Intelligent-Mine-730 1d ago
The rich find loopholes and ways to make sure that their financial activity can’t be taxed by the French government and the ones in power and way too dependent on them to do something about it.
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u/Four_beastlings 1d ago
France's high tax bracket is just 45% after 180k€/per year. That is NOT "taxing the rich"
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u/ClockworkEngineseer 1d ago
180k€/per year.
That's upper middle class territory.
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u/Hector_Tueux 1d ago
And that's before you even saw the state some of these highschools
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u/polarphantom 1d ago
In school I did an exchange out to another school in some rural countryside French town, holy shit that place looked like a full on prison it was rough
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u/Hyadeos 1d ago
The french police has been getting more and more violent over the years, even the UN criticised it...
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u/Appropriate-Debt5561 1d ago
I mean. The "students" are setting buildings and people on fire. No government is going to meet that without force, nor should they.
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u/SumatranRatMonkey 22h ago
A this point it is very unlikely that the students are the culprits in most of these cases...
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u/Alduish 1d ago
The police should answer by only arresting these dangerous individuals to protect the rest of the protesters, and it's far from what they do, they attack everyone.
Also it's a known fact that police officers disguise as protesters to be violent and give the police a reason to attack everyone.
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u/Mythosaurus 1d ago
Nobody is falling for this BS far-right argument.
The French know how to protest against unrepresentative government, and are a lot tougher than Americans when it comes to defending democracy
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u/PaladinCorbin 1d ago
American spent years talking about how they would overthrow a tyrannical government if it ever happened, and now that it's here, they haven't done jack shit.
Meanwhile, in France, if the government does even the tiniest thing the people don't like, they set fire to Paris.
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u/Eogard 1d ago
That's where you are mistaken, you have protesters and rioters. The second type are the same that were burning shit when PSG won the UEFA league, they don't care about education, they want chaos. They are not the same as student bodies who organized the protest in the first place.
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u/Hector_Tueux 1d ago
Also to add, french police regularly send someone in civilian clothes to start some shit up
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u/Gauth1erN 1d ago
French here. In every protest you have rioters joining to destroy things.
Only few of the people present are rioters.
So no french students protesting don't destroy education resources.
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u/AnyEye8798 1d ago
If the French could govern like they riot, they wouldn't need to riot.