r/nba • u/dameplsrunfromgrind • 12h ago
Are the Raptors just last year’s Rockets?
There’s a lot of parallels between these two teams imo. They’re both defense first teams who are subpar offensive teams that rely on an injury prone superstar wing to save them in half court offensive possessions.
They also both have 2nd options that can’t shoot, are surrounded by other non shooters and their centers can’t shoot either and are defensive liabilities.
The Rockets actually overachieved in the regular season last year and given how much time Kawhi misses and how much tougher the East will be this year, it’s looking like the Raptors will be a play in team.
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u/LemonButterRum 12h ago
Raptors 2nd option is an absolute beast with an ungodly motor, which might be the difference here. the lack of shooting is a real thing tho, took them damn near 2 quarters to make a 3 last night.
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u/AnybodyNormal3947 12h ago
I would argue that the raptors didnt overachieve last year as key players in their starting lineup missed significant time.
I would also argue that the raptors are much too good to be a playin team.
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u/Billis- Raptors 12h ago
This Raptors team is way, way better defensively than the Rockets
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u/InstanceMoney 12h ago
They did better than the rockets last year and that was with Ingram and Quickley injured. You add kawhi and quickly to that core as well as another year of development from our 4 young guys off our bench and we will be way better this year.
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u/nbaistheworst 6h ago
"They did better than the rockets last year"
Rockets won 52 games in the stronger conference, raptors 46
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u/Active_Confection655 Timberwolves 12h ago
Im sure kawhi will help for all 12 games he feels like playing, but what about the rest of the time?
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u/Li_am17 Raptors 11h ago
2 words. Scottie Barnes must watch TV
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u/Active_Confection655 Timberwolves 11h ago
That's cool and I agree. Still doesn't change much of what I said. Lol
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u/refreshing_yogurt 9h ago edited 8h ago
Those injuries kinda parallel the Rockets too. Houston didn't have VanVleet or Adams and KD basically missed the entire series. They're also counting on development from their young players.
I think the comparison is pretty apt. Pre-KD the Rockets were also coming off a tough 7 game series loss against a more experienced team. They traded an empty calories scorer for KD just like the Raptors did for Kawhi and everybody had high expectations going into the following season.
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u/Barracuda374 Heat 10h ago
It wasn’t last season, 5th for TOR and 6th for HOU.
As for projecting forward, I think most people are letting the Cavs series and/or adding Kawhi muddy the waters quite a bit for what should be a good-very good defense but this isn’t close to the 2020 Raptors defensively.
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u/Insightful21 11h ago
Why are you posting like this would be a bad result. The Houston Rockets were top 10 in defensive and offensive rating last season missing Fred Van Vleet the whole season and Steven Adam’s for a significant chunk. Their performance in the playoffs was more indicative of injuries than actual talent.
Raptors should continue to be a top 5 defensive team and top 10 offence if Kawhi plays a majority of the season. Their ceiling is higher than the Rockets playing in the East but health will factor ALOT into the East seeding
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u/SnooGoats9435 Wizards 9h ago
The east was a stronger conference last year. Why are you trying to say their ceiling is higher because they are in the east lol. The east are even stronger this year than last year. Maybe we can stop using west > east as a stigma like nothing ever changes
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u/Insightful21 8h ago
Ceiling is higher because they don’t have to go through OKC or the Spurs….Raptors have no answer for either of those teams while the I’d argue that the Knicks, Sixers, Raptors, Cavs and Heat are kind of all bunched up together and you can make a case for any of the teams depending on health.
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u/metaslaves Toronto Huskies 8h ago
The Knicks literally beat the Spurs in 5 lol, why do they not count as a powerhouse?
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u/Insightful21 6h ago
That’s fair. Here’s the thing. Both OKC and Spurs were already a tier above everyone in the West and they both added more talent and will get better from internal growth.
The Knicks lost Mitchel Robinson (I think his loss has been overrated) so that hurts but also they’re a team full of vets, so it’s not like they’re going to get better from internal growth. And then the bigger thing is that the East got ALOT better. Nothing wrong with saying the Knicks are the best team in the East, especially after their historic run but I don’t think they’re inevitable like the Spurs and OKC
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u/Pristine-Pay-5490 Rockets 10h ago
thank you. im thinking that no one here actually watched the rockets besides the playoffs.
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u/Insightful21 8h ago
Yeah bro I hate this hot take culture that’s infesting the NBA. Nobody wants to analyze the game or teams anymore it’s just pure vibes
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u/roostor222 12h ago
other than the time missed due to the achilles, Kevin Durant has been very durable. Especially over the last 3 years.
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u/thelowendtheory__ 11h ago
I could’ve given you a million things to make better use of your time than to think of and write this post.
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u/Bowiescorvat2 Raptors 12h ago
So you think a team that wasnt a play in team last year will add Kawhi Leonard and regress to being a play in team this year?
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u/Oozeinator Raptors 12h ago
We were one game of the Celtics 3rd stringers beating the Magic (in a must win for ORL) away from the play-in lol
BI was a workhorse for us during the reg season and Kawhi will be load managed. Add in the east getting better as a whole and tanking basically getting blown up and the play-in could be a reality for the raps.
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u/Carlinjamesgk 11h ago
Yeah I honestly don’t think this is a crazy take. The Raptors weren’t definitively the 5th best team. It was a close race all the way to the end. And BI did ALOT for us. So it’s a big question mark. It honestly can go either way
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 11h ago
The race by Raptors fans closing the year to not get paired up against the Knicks and get swept was hilarious.
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u/Oozeinator Raptors 11h ago
Huh? Raps were desperately trying to avoid the play-in, had nothing to do with something we couldn't control in where the Knicks wound up.
Funnily enough, there were even fans hoping we'd pair up against the knicks over the Cavs lol. I disagreed but they were there.
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 10h ago
Raps fans didn't want the play ins, but I remember a bunch of them not wanting the Knicks either and cheering when they didn't get that matchup since they haven't won in years.
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u/Oozeinator Raptors 10h ago
Oh, I gotcha. Was thinking you meant something different.
Yeah, the entire Cavs or Knicks discourse was pretty jokes. It was obvious which team would've been the harder matchup so the "Cavs side" fans went hard with the shit talk (understandably so).
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u/Bowiescorvat2 Raptors 11h ago
Nah ill choose to believe in my team thanks tho
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u/WeCantBothBeMe 8h ago
And the heat, pacers and Sixers who finished behind the raptors are all better this season.
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u/Direct-Departure1662 11h ago
Feeling high over a preseason game I see
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11h ago
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u/danhoyuen Raptors 9h ago
I think the raptors are overrated and wont amount to much. But... they weren't a play in team last year. Because... well, you know... they made the playoffs.
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u/ILoveTheKnicks69 12h ago
I mean maybe, acting like Kawhi is anything serious at this point and he doesn’t even stay healthy or play in the playoffs, and while the raptors were a playoff team last year success is not linear and sports can be random, so they aren’t a shoe in as you seem to be claiming 🤥
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u/AnybodyNormal3947 12h ago
Acting like kawhi is anything serious? What does that mean
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u/ILoveTheKnicks69 12h ago
He hasn’t been a serious player in a while. He had one good regular season last year with relative health but the clippers still didn’t make the playoffs. Not to mention he hasn’t played any serious playoff basketball since the bubble when he choked against the 3-1 nuggets, he is not a tier 1 superstar like he used to be
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u/wtfhassan Raptors 2h ago
>He had one good regular season last year with relative health but the clippers still didn’t make the playoffs.
That’s more to do with the Clippers than Kawhi
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u/5Ping 12h ago
"acting like Kawhi is anything serious at this point", huh? the guy literally had his best regular season last season. He is still a top 10 player, top 15 at the absolute worst case. Injuries are the only problem ofc, but performance wise the guy is still elite.
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u/nbaistheworst 7h ago
Then he got destroyed in the play-in game by Steph and the 35-win Warriors missing 2 starters.
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u/ILoveTheKnicks69 12h ago
If he’s so elite performance wise then why didn’t the clippers make the playoffs last year. He hasn’t done anything in the playoffs since choking in the bubble when he was in his prime
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u/Every-Government-272 12h ago
He played 65 games last year and averaged 28/6/3 on 50/39/89 splits.
If he's healthy by playoffs the Raps will be an incredibly difficult out for anyone in the east.
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u/motherseffinjones Raptors 12h ago edited 11h ago
It was one preseason game lmao. I know people overact but this is insane
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u/RealLanceStorm Nets 7h ago
it's almost like the point of sports is to watch the season play out because you can't figure out the answer before the team even plays a real game together
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u/gazing_sunspots 12h ago
Is this an overreaction to yesterday? We haven't played a game yet let's maybe wait a few months before we make any assumptions.
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u/Interesting-Dingo994 12h ago
The Raptors mostly played their second and third stringers last night. Many who are fighting for G league spots. Management wants to know what they’ve got. The Heat played their starters and a lot of established rotation players.
The outcome was predictable.
It’s also pre season.
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u/Interesting-Dingo994 11h ago
Shead is not a starter. Quickley is the starting PG although for certain matchups I can see Scottie playing a lot of minutes at PG.
RJ will only be starting this season based on matchup. Especially if Kawhi is playing. I can see him coming off the bench.
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u/TemplarParadox17 Vancouver Grizzlies 12h ago
the number 2 option is much better on the raptors than rockets
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u/No-Anything-7291 12h ago
I think they should break up the team. Preseason is a good indicator of a teams success. ESP the first game.
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u/StodgySponge Heat 11h ago
I agree with a lot of what you said, but Alpie is 24 years old, bro lol. He needs to redeem himself after last year but past his peak is brutal
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u/DavidKirk2000 Raptors 11h ago
I just wouldn’t be particularly surprised if he never makes another all star game. I don’t think he’s a bad player by any means, I actually think he’ll be a good player for a pretty long time, but his limitations are glaring.
Having said that, I also won’t be surprised if Sengun makes me eat these words this season.
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u/StodgySponge Heat 11h ago
A lot of people are out on him, so I definitely get that. I’m hoping the rockets are as good as I think they can be, now that they have a pg. I need someone in the west to make OKC and spurs look mortal lol.
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u/Parking_Cheek_237 10h ago
He thrives off a legit point guard. The year before he was an all star because Freddie and him were legit. Losing freddie and brooks would fuck with big.
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u/cl353 Heat 11h ago
And let’s remember that Scottie hasn’t entered his prime yet while Sengun is arguably already past his peak.
r fking raptors fans in delusion since kawhi? everyone agrees that scottie is better than sengun, how in the world is the age 24 player past his peak and the age 25 "hasnt entered his prime"
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u/axecalibur Knicks 10h ago
Rockets were 8th offensive rating
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-nba-team-offensive-rating-2026
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u/Basic_Commercial_806 9h ago
Rockets were 28th in 3PA last year. That to me is more indicative of their offensive struggles than just offensive rating, which is skewed by their insane offensive rebounding rate.
Raptors were 26th last year in 3PA, but they added Kawhi who attempted nearly 7 threes and shot 39%.
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u/GarriganGate Raptors 11h ago
This is just you cherry picking results with no context.
The Rockets overachieved? According to what? They didn’t have KD for the playoffs, and while it was still an embarrassing loss to the Lakers. it shouldn’t be a surprise that teams that revolve around a key player is much worse without than key player.
The East will be competitive, much more than last year given Haliburton coming back, Giannis joining the Heat, 76ers being supercharged, on top of the other good teams in the east last season. So it is a possibility the Raptors will be in the play in, but that’s because on paper, the teams are all close. I could also see the Raptors being a top 3 seed. Just the same I can see the Heat being the 2nd seed or also in the play in.
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u/Parking_Cheek_237 10h ago
KD was never really a factor. FVV and Brooks were. Somehow their play making and culture creating just rose up the floor for everyone. Hell the made Sengun an all-star.
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u/GarriganGate Raptors 10h ago
Every team needs smart role players, but every team also needs a star.
Sengun didn’t play much different last year from the year before, despite the fact that the Rockets didn’t have a point guard all year.
The Rockets were also eliminated in the first round the year before. They just weren’t good enough and KD did make them better. They, like every other team, still need complimentary players. Especially for a team that didn’t have a point guard and lacked shooters in general
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u/KingGouda 11h ago
No because Scottie Barnes is better than every Rocket player not named Durant
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u/Parking_Cheek_237 10h ago
Is he? Is he really? That 2024 team was pretty legit. 2025 Durant couldn't do anything without legit guards. Sounds exactly like the raptors.
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u/Sharp-Selection-3541 9h ago
Are you asking if Scottie Barnes is better than Sengun and Jalen Green?
Are you okay?
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u/Parking_Cheek_237 37m ago
I'm saying kd wasn't important at all and was questioning why they exclude him with the bunch
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u/Sharp-Selection-3541 33m ago
There's never been a moment in time where KD was on the court and not "important at all".
He's saying the situation is vastly different because KD was added to a rockets team without a good reliable scorer. Kawhi is replacing Brandon Ingram and getting to play with Scottie Barnes who is a better player than anyone on the 2024 rockets.
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u/Parking_Cheek_237 22m ago
i watched the entire season. he was not important, compared to anyone on that rockets 2024 squad. Scottie is more important to this squad in comparison.
Not sure why he excluded KD unless your just watching numbers
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u/HokageEzio Knicks 11h ago
I believe in this Raptors team without Kawhi way more than that Rockets team without Durant.
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u/Parking_Cheek_237 10h ago
I think we should aim to be the rockets two years ago. That team was so fun. Freddie got injured and brooks got traded and it all went down hill for them
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u/WeCantBothBeMe 9h ago edited 8h ago
They’re also both relying on stars that are on the wrong side of 35 to be their best players. Neither team is a real contender though I don’t think anyone considers the rockets as such even though they’re could very well be the better team of the two when healthy.
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u/nbaistheworst 7h ago
Seems like a reasonable take. The Raptors feasted on the tanking teams last season (24-6).
With the league being a lot more competitive this season, and their poor 3 pt shooting plus an injury prone and lazy Kawhi fresh off an extension, the play-in is likely.
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u/Average__Arbin 12h ago
If Kawhi doesn’t get injured early on, it’s pretty likely he plays around the same amount of games he played last season.
He doesn’t have to backpack much on both ends compared to last season on the Clippers.
Realistically, Raptors are a Top 4-5 team in the east.
Knicks and Sixers are arguably better.
But the Raptors are in the same convo as the Heat, Pacers and Cavs.
Also, we’re just 1 game into the preseason bruh. Don’t go making assumptions based on 1 game.
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u/nbaistheworst 7h ago
"If Kawhi doesn’t get injured early on, it’s pretty likely he plays around the same amount of games he played last season."
Lol, absurd. Last season he was playing for an extension and 65 was an outlier.
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u/Debra_Messing 8h ago
Well considering Scottie and Kawhi being better than any player on the Rockets, not really.
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u/Efficient_Art_1144 Celtics 12h ago
The raptors coach seems to have more in his coaching arsenal beyond “question the players manhood every other press conference “