r/nba • • 1d ago

[Begley] Knicks are unlikely to extend KAT, Hart and McBride before the season starts, with the 2nd apron making it hard to extend all 3. They needs to figure out KAT's situation before addressing Hart or McBride, but there is a clear gap between what New York are offering to KAT and what he wants.

It seems unlikely at this point that the Knicks will agree to extensions with Towns, Josh Hart or Miles McBride before the regular season. There is clearly a gap between what the Knicks are offering Towns and what he’s looking for. Logically, the Knicks need to figure out Towns’ situation before they can address Hart or McBride. The club’s immediate financial future is impacted greatly by Towns’ $61 million player option for 2027-28. If he agreed to an extension, Towns would presumably decline the extension and have a lower annual salary for 2027-28.

If extensions are not signed before the season starts, I’m sure Towns, Hart and McBride will maintain the same approach to their job. But, as Hart noted, it’s only natural for contract uncertainty to impact a player’s life on or off the court.

"Once the season starts (and if no extension is reached), I’ll probably have that mentality of 'I don’t really wanna deal with this, I want to try and focus on playing the season.' (But) I’m sure there will probably be a little extra weight to the jersey," Hart said this week. "You don’t know the certainty of your situation and obviously it affects home life. There are certain things that you might want to do, but you’re like ‘I can’t, because I have no idea what the situation will be in two months, three months, four months, in a year, if I’m gonna be here or not.’ You don’t know. But hopefully, like I said, I’m a Knick, I’d love to be a Knick and I love the city."

"…At the end of the day, we’re humans and I think what sometimes gets lost is that we are people, that we all have lives and things that we have to deal with and fix," Hart said in response to a separate question later in his interview. "I wish I could sit there and say it wouldn’t have any weight or any bearing, but you never know. Some people can handle it great and some people can really struggle with it and that can kill their performance. I hope it gets done, but we’ll see." Unless the Knicks decide to exceed the second apron in team salary, it will be difficult for the club to extend all three of Towns, Hart and McBride.

To illustrate this, let’s use $75 million as a combined annual salary for the first year of Towns and Hart extensions. With this number, the Knicks would have roughly $13-$14 million in second apron space to offer McBride.

But the bigger hurdle, in my view, is the 2028-29 season.

Let’s say Jalen Brunson signs a max extension that starts in 2028-29. If you take Brunson’s deal and combine it with a total $75-$80 million in extensions for Towns and Hart, the Knicks would have around $10 million under the second apron for either McBride or another player. This number doesn’t account for an extension for OG Anunoby. Anunoby would be eligible for an extension. And obviously, that $10 million is certainly below McBride’s market value. So the Knicks have to navigate a tough situation with these extensions if they want to remain below the second apron in team salary.

To date, not much has changed on the Knicks’ side: they think very highly of Towns and want him to be a Knick for a long time. The Knicks, in earlier negotiations, offered Towns a contract with a starting number of between $45-$50 million, as SNY reported. I don’t know if they have or haven’t increased their offers to Towns. Again, everything here is based on the Knicks’ commitment to staying under the second apron.+

Source: https://sny.tv/articles/knicks-training-camp-notes-10-2-26

732 Upvotes

407 comments sorted by

504

u/Commercial-Fold9801 1d ago

Will this is what happens when champions teams need to extend guys happend to Celtics now Knicks

97

u/435rouhnj234_209u 1d ago

Celtics lost in the 2nd round with the exact same team before having to dismantle.

Knicks will have everyone back except Mitchell Robinson next year.

Thunder had a straight up better team than their championship season with the acquisition of McCain and breakout from Ajay, lost in the WCF.

Just getting ahead of the inevitable discourse that "OMG 2nd apron is why no one's repeated in the 2020s".

40

u/largehearted Celtics 1d ago

Yep, it's just hard to repeat and we have neither a GOAT candidate in their prime nor two first-team guys teamed up right now. I think both our roster w Jrue-White-Jays-Horford and this Thunder roster totally had potential for it but just didn't get all the way. That's why the games are played

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u/smalls_1804 Knicks 15h ago

Yeah especially since for the majority of the "parity era" there hasn't actually been a second apron

14

u/NotRote Timberwolves 1d ago

I've said it on everyone of these threads, Knicks don't even have KAT without the 2nd apron, so Knicks fans get 1 ring instead of 0 rings due to the apron which I'm sure they prefer.

146

u/WimpyWemby 1d ago

The flip side is you extend your stars and they underperform. Like OKC and Chet / Dub

192

u/BlueHundred Knicks 1d ago

The Thunder are fine. They didn't and don't have to break up their team. Chet got shutdown no doubt but played fine the rest of the playoffs. JDub didn't underperform. He was just hurt.

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u/AdFine3045 Heat 1d ago

and if Jalen isn't injured nobody gives a shit about Chet being shut down because they would be very likely to repeat. Chet just ends up under the magnifying glass because he was more visible with Jalen Williams out.

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u/TRIPLE-J-ENErGy Pelicans 1d ago

Dub was injured?? When did he underperform? They took the spurs to 7 and dub was injured throughout the playoffs so I think okc is happy with their decision to pay their core considering they were a game away from b2b finals appearances

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u/supersonicnat45 Knicks 1d ago

Less so literally underperform and more so not providing value equal to being paid whatever percentage of the cap

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u/TRIPLE-J-ENErGy Pelicans 1d ago

Chet was an all nba player who was literally the runner up for dpoy and they were 1 game away from the finals missing 2 key players. wtf are yall talking about?

8

u/AdFine3045 Heat 1d ago

they don't watch games and TikTok/Reels only gives them so much to run with.

14

u/menace313 1d ago

Except maybe they do. Chet was literally benched in the 4th of game 7 because he wouldn't even shoot the ball. I don't care what his yearly stats are when he disappeared when it mattered most.

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u/supersonicnat45 Knicks 1d ago edited 1d ago

What? I’m sorry do you watch games? Or use your brain? Cuz I did both last season and I didn’t see two guys who were producing at the level of the 4-5 good-elite role players that could have replaced them. I saw one guy get played off the court pretty consistently any time he played the top tier centers (the centers that he is getting extended for 5/250 fully guaranteed to defend) like Jokic or Wemby or KAT. I saw the other guy… actually I didn’t see the other guy because Dub played 33 games this year (and was not great/restricted in the games he did play because he wasn’t fully healthy).

I didn’t call them ass, I didn’t say they don’t deserve the contracts, I didn’t say they won’t get better, and I definitely didn’t say anything that should make you whip out the ad hominem “I disagree with them so they must only watch the NBA through tiktok” defense.

All that was said was that Chet and JDub disappointed this season. That is objectively true, if they had their extension talks this year instead of last year we’d be seeing two more Duren situations. I hate the “biggest stage” and “when it matters most” nothing statements/talking head jargon but frankly Chet got played off the court when they needed him the most against Wemby. Absolutely steamrolled by Wemby. Obviously Wemby is probably the best player in the world, but if Chet has even an at all decent series or if JDub isn’t suffering from his 94th injury this year in the WCF there’s a very good chance the Thunder go back to back (they have a significantly better matchup against the Knicks than the Spurs, but I don’t watch games so I don’t know how I know that).

But please, whip out your ad hominems instead of using some reading comprehension.

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u/Beetle919 Hornets 1d ago

Their new deals didn't even kick in last year, what are you yapping about?

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u/SeaworthinessSome454 1d ago

That’s fine, injuries happen and that’s the beauty of having a young core. They’ll have many bites at the apple

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u/HitboxOfASnail Thunder 1d ago

game 7 of the wcf a bunch of injuries is underperforming? no, the real alternative is being perpetually mediocre

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u/SantosCalzonesBatman Spurs 1d ago

Look at his username

Dont take this brother seriously

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u/Adorable-Bike-9689 1d ago

I mean there's generally more than one alternative.

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u/thendnchieftain 1d ago

They made All-NBA teams after they signed their extensions dude what

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u/CaskJeeves Raptors 1d ago

JDub was injured and Chet is still great against anybody not named Wembanyama 

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u/Saucy_Totchie Knicks 3h ago

Chet underperformed but Dub? He was injured for the most part and at least tried to gut it out and play. Even then they still took the Spurs to 7 and that game came down to the very end. They'll be fine. The core is locked up and they have a ton of assets for flexibility.

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u/Superlolz 1d ago

Celtics weren’t thinking about second apron even if they knew it was coming. Also owners sold the team before having to pay the extensions 🤣 

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u/SquimJim Celtics 1d ago

I believe Brad said he knew this was coming when he signed those players. The players even knew before they joined the team

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u/Efficient_Art_1144 Celtics 1d ago

Except the cba was signed in the offseason before the 23-24 season. So they knew what was up when they extended everyone

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u/SoulReaper12 Celtics 1d ago

Celtics weren’t thinking about second apron even if they knew it was coming.

Jaylen signed his extension after the current CBA been approved.

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u/I_Set_3_Alarms Celtics 1d ago

Yeah their plan was “get everyone paid, win the title, then figure it out”

Apparently figure it out meant sell the team and then trade away basically everyone except Tatum, D-White, Hauser, and Pritchard

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u/Dat_Boi_John Slovenia 1d ago

Not the same situation, everyone, including the players knew they'd leave after that season, it all just happened to line up and allow them to essentially field a starting five of All-stars that season when Porzingis was healthy.

1

u/rickeyethebeerguy 1d ago

Not just championship teams. Just teams with a lot of talent

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u/financialthrowaw2020 NBA 14h ago

It's not a bad thing. We don't need dynasties.

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u/Daconvix Knicks 1d ago

Thank God we won the title this past year

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u/SiphenPrax Knicks 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah we got our chip after decades of waiting. We’ll inevitably be bad again one day but we’ll be back after the rebuild with a new core of players for another championship run. That’s just sports.

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u/TOPLVL [TOR] Kyle Lowry 16h ago

nothing matters after you win that title - its all worth it and the fallout afterward was worth it too

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u/Professional_Bat8585 18h ago

I really thought Brunson taking somewhat of a discount would convince the pseudo-stars around him to take reasonable deals to repeat the success they had. But nope.

Like Caruso and Reaves both took reasonable discounts to offer to stay in LA with LeBron, in the situations that allowed them to be NBA players at all.

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u/mekarz 12h ago

Kat is still open for a discount but its way lower than even that

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u/Saucy_Totchie Knicks 3h ago

Iirc, KAT was okay with a discount but the Knicks really lowballed him.

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u/Professional_Bat8585 2h ago

He’s making 57m/y right now with a 61m player option for next season….which is a slight overpay IMO .

I can only imagine that he thinks even that annual rate is a lowball.

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u/Cashneto Knicks 1d ago

I knew we had a 3 year window when we traded for KAT. 2nd apron is killer but it's also the reason we one a chip

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u/Saucy_Totchie Knicks 2h ago

After all these years of waiting I was thinking I just need to see the one championship and I'd be good. Anything can happen now and it wont change that I watched it happen lol.

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u/Sportsfan369 Lakers 17h ago

Enjoy it. I got one in 2010 with my cfb team. I don’t think I will ever see my team come close to sniffing a championship again in my lifetime. My friendships that depend on my team being good are in the toilet as well.
Every time the season comes around, I buy the summer hype, the rebuild, the re-tooling, the new head coach, and the culture, but by week 3, I’m inevitably disappointed. The entire season is a waste by week 4, before the bye week, and over before you even get into the meat of the schedule. It’s an awful way to live.
Grip that fucking trophy as tightly as you can while you still have bragging rights. It won’t last.

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u/GeneralDebate 14h ago

Dude that Knicks trophy will last a LONG time. Look at Dirk and the Mavs. They weren’t that good for several years but no one gave them shit for it as long as they did right by Dirk

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u/slayerkj Knicks 1d ago edited 1d ago

I saw a Knicks chip in my lifetime (when I was younger there were serious doubts) the organization executed, and I am happy they won.

Now, only the delusional do not see that last season was the peak of being a Knicks Fan.

Dolan gonna cost cut and price hike based on the chip.

44

u/pmurt007 Lakers 1d ago

I don't even think it's about cutting cost it's more about not crippling the franchise by overpaying because of "vibes". KAT is a great player but it sounds like he isn't going to take anything less than the max ($69m AAV) so that's a problem there and then you have Hart with his fucked up finger who has been slowly declining.

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u/liebz11692 Knicks 1d ago

I don’t even think KAT is max or bust. I just think the Knicks are currently offering below what he finds palatable.

2

u/mikesh8rp Knicks 1d ago

Yeah, I’m still cautiously optimistic they find a number in the 50s they both agree on. KAT maybe could get more on the open market, but he seems to really like NYC and I wonder how happy he’d be making more on a team unlikely to make the playoffs.

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u/435rouhnj234_209u 1d ago

KAT wants to take a pay cut. The Knicks want him to take a 25 million AAV pay cut, which would be fucking dumb to do when there are legit contenders who will offer him more and probably give him a better chance of winning another title going forward

5

u/OnlyMamaKnows Knicks 1d ago

How is Hart slowly declining?

7

u/duplicatesnowflake Clippers 1d ago

He's was not but unfortunately may be moving forward. His finger is completely fucked and the surgery to fix is is considered career ending apparently so he's just going to keep playing through pain and degeneration unless some alternative cure is invented soon.

1

u/Saucy_Totchie Knicks 3h ago

Not to say hes currently declining but he is probably the most susceptible to having a massive drop off. He mainly relies on his motor and gets hurt quite a lot although he plays through it. The miles will add up eventually and it won't look good. Plus the issue with his finger isnt going to get better as he plays which kind of makes the timer more apparent.

0

u/idontgiveafuqqq Heat 1d ago

What makes it sound like he's only open to the max? All the reporting ive seen is the knicks lowballing the fuck out of him, with like 45-50m. And Kat wanting closer to the max.

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u/pantaloonatic Knicks 1d ago

You don't have a good read on the Knicks situation at all

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u/escapedhousefly Magic 1d ago

Why are people surprised players want more money? Some people were delusional thinking KAT would take something like 90m/3yr when reports of him saying money isn’t everything and he wanted to stay on the Knicks long term. That was after the high of winning a championship.

He might take a small discount but he’ll still want close to his value, which is pretty fucking high right now.

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u/AleroRatking Vancouver Grizzlies 1d ago

This is reddit. They just complain about everything

11

u/lalakingmalibog Mavericks 1d ago

I cant see my forehead 😡

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u/The_Captain_Planet22 Celtics 18h ago

That's the thing Kat isn't looking for more money, he's looking to not make significantly less money. The Knicks are insulting him with their offer and it will show future FA how they treat super stars that win them a championship

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u/smalls_1804 Knicks 15h ago

It's not insulting it's an offer commensurate with the realities of the second apron. There's not a single team over the second apron this year, everyone is treating it as a hard cap

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u/LegitimateMoney00 Knicks 1d ago edited 1d ago

The Knicks aren’t offering that. They are offering him 50M per year for 4 years as it stands. I think he wants something over 60M which is where the disagreement is.

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u/_19911118 Raptors 1d ago

The same people thatll comment "fuck billionaires" are saying Kat should take a pay cut

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u/Informal_Clothes_237 Rockets 1d ago edited 1d ago

Whether KAT takes the max or 30m

Whether ALLteams or NONE paying the luxury tax

The Players will share the SAME BRI of league’s revenue which are ONLY the basketball related one.

Tax penalties only benefit the owners of NON tax teams

That’s it

Why most ppl find so difficult to understand it?

8

u/yiwang1 Knicks 1d ago

It’s not about saving billionaires money. Teams can only feasibly stay in the apron for 2 years, and the Jalen + OG extensions will get us in there. The team needs to be very calculated about this to maximize the contention window. If we never end up going into the apron and the team blows up early as a result then yeah it’s a greedy bitch move from Dolan but at the moment there is a real reason to insist on controlling salaries as much as we can to preserve flexibility

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u/ThatBull_cj 76ers Bandwagon 1d ago

It is a salary cap, those two things arent related

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u/Ryoga476ad 21h ago

There's not much difference between billionaire wealth and KAT wealth. I don't understand this labour vs capital read on these negotiations, NBA stars are not "like us". They are employees the way a MNC CEO is an employee

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u/smalls_1804 Knicks 15h ago

Whether KAT takes a paycut or not will have no effect on the total revenue the billionaire owners of the league receive. Owners get 49% of BRI, players get 51% no matter what the sum total value of the contracts players have signed.

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u/Typical_Parsnip13 Knicks 1d ago

Dumbest comment award goes to :

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u/Derpy_Mc_Burpy Raptors 1d ago

You guys think Josh Hart is the odd man out cuz of his messed up ring finger which could affect his performance?

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u/Sandasmandas Knicks 1d ago

No his finger been messed up for years it feels like… he’s taped it up and will continue doing so

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u/LeRoiDeNord 1d ago

Never recovered from sticking it up Brunson's asshole

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u/East-End-8646 1d ago

So that’s why he’s been using his thumb to plug his jug instead

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u/cl353 Heat 1d ago

he somehow shot a career high with that finger

feels like hes likely to stay cuz hes not going to cost as much as say KAT

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u/BedKlutzy9141 Knicks 1d ago

McBride will be traded

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u/bkk_startups Knicks 1d ago

No, I think there's 0 chance that we lose our Captain's best friend.

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u/RealLanceStorm Nets 1d ago

KAT imo because he wants second star money. Knicks likely value OG more as the second most important player for many reasons basketball and for what he means to the franchise. Plus they already have Mikal's contract on the books for a while.

Josh Hart cheaper and from the outside - he seems like the kind of role player that a fan base never wants to lose esp now that he won the title.

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u/SuperH533 Knicks 1d ago

McBride is 100% gone. Hart will likely be gone and hopefully get his bag.

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u/UFmoose Knicks 1d ago

Hart is not going anywhere.

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u/TheflavorBlue5003 Knicks 1d ago

I think he is the odd man out because of his age and play style. He shot decent all playoffs and the finger was busted.

I love the dude but I can't see his game aging gracefully. He needs a lot of energy and explosiveness to be effective with his rebounding and winning plays.

A lot of his effectiveness is because he out hustles every one on the floor... and I would imagine there are questions in the front office on how that is going to age.

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u/RecommendationReal61 1d ago

Deuce is very clearly the odd man out.

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u/zestysnacks 1d ago

They’ll extend kat

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u/Ajbksfinest Hawks 1d ago

Kat has no reason to take a paycut. Agent is probably trying to find a team to give him the max, unless hes damn near top 10 level next season he probably gets traded.

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u/happyzor 1d ago

His agent's former boss was Leon Rose, the current President of Knicks.

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u/tydawg_149 Timberwolves 1d ago

I don’t blame him either, would love to see him continue with the Knicks but this is the highest his value has ever been and probably the most money he’ll sign in his career

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u/CCWaterBug 13h ago

Its wild that he has 125 mil guaranteed the next 24 months and we're discussing his future concerns about locking in.

Bottom line he has a huge cap hitbit's just a question if its longer or not 

Ideally they settle it but with the cap it really constricts spending, or perhaps better to say it disperses spending to other players if they reduce his $

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u/ImKindaEssential 1d ago

The power of friendship will save us

2

u/Methylobacterium Knicks 1d ago

Aspirations of staying in NYC will save us.

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u/Ok_Acanthaceae6057 Celtics 1d ago

The 2nd apron strikes again. Sustained long term success just ain’t possible anymore.

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u/kyle_993 Raptors 1d ago

I mean was it ever normal to have 5 near max players? You can absolutely still have extended success, it's just now you have 1 or 2 stars surrounded by a revolving door as the surrounding pieces get too expensive.

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u/Commercial_Case_5373 1d ago

Yeah people keep saying 2nd apron while ignoring the Knicks are about to spend $200 million on 4 players lol. Thinking they should be able to do that and still extend all their role players is exactly why the 2nd apron exists. At some point the cap has to actually matter, crazy thing is Knicks can pay everybody if Dolan is willing to pay but clearly he isn’t but yup it’s that damn 2nd apron.

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u/aviatorbassist 1d ago

I mean they should be able to build a semblance of a contender out of 3 of Brunson/OG/KAT/Bridges

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u/SpiritFantastic4835 Lakers 1d ago

It’s possible you just need your stars on rookie contracts/ under value so unlikely

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u/azizinator25 [NYK] Charles Oakley 1d ago

Our star is on an under value contract and this is still happening

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u/Resident_Durian_478 Spurs 1d ago

Best chance at it is okc and the spurs but funny enough they're each others road block so it evens out

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u/Busy_Project_7229 1d ago

Pretty sure OKC will have this exact issue in about a year or two. Same with the spurs cause of the rookie contracts lmao

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u/AlternativeDirt6124 Spurs 1d ago

we have until the end of Harper's rookie contract but Fox should be gone by then

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u/Busy_Project_7229 1d ago

That fox contract is gonna kill y’all if he ain’t traded sooner rather than later

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u/WoweeZoweeDeluxe Spurs 17h ago

If Beal can get traded, so can Fox

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u/Superlolz 1d ago

It’s a bad contract until the last year when it’s a great trade asset. I think spurs will be fine regardless. 

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u/sushicowboyshow Spurs 1d ago

Especially if you are building your entire roster through FA.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Ok_Acanthaceae6057 Celtics 1d ago

I think it’s the multiple years over the apron and the long term punishment.

Not to mention draft picks frozen, dollar for dollar trading, no sacking contracts in trades.

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u/Gezoredditing 1d ago

The way the league works now is it's almost like a curse to win a championship as you have to pay your players for doing it. If you do it you're basically messing up your future. If you don't? You will lose the players that got you there.

Every champ this decade has had to make some really tough decisions. OKC have probably been the least affected but lost 3 role players this off season and may have to move Hart, Chet or JDub next year.

Tough time to be a champ I guess.

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u/MrPainfulAnal Knicks 1d ago

I don’t care if we’re terrible for 5 years, it was worth it

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u/ThatBull_cj 76ers Bandwagon 1d ago

This has been true in every sport since they added any type of salary cap. The 5th-10th best players on champions have been getting overpaid in free agency for a while now

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u/_MangoMadness_ Knicks 1d ago

“Curse” - come on man, if it’s a curse welp I LOVE

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u/AleroRatking Vancouver Grizzlies 1d ago

Id more than happily take this curse

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u/Brod24 Magic 1d ago

Every owner is about to receive a $400 million check. The second apron shouldn't be an issue for any owner in the short term. 

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u/yiwang1 Knicks 1d ago

It’s not about being cheap, the second cap fucks your ability to make moves and your draft 7 years out if you stay in for more than 2 years.

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u/Dav136 Knicks 1d ago

Problem is you need a plan to get out of the second apron because it makes it really hard to change your team let alone improve it

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u/fireman2004 1d ago

The point of the rules was to keep teams from staying in the 2nd apron forever.

So you’re incentivizing going for it for a year or two and then rebuilding after that.

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u/Ryoga476ad 21h ago

Not rebuilding, retooling. You can keep your 2/4 men core, just not everybody.

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u/Financial_Pay_6687 19h ago

This point gets ignored a lot in the discussion. We talk about teams retaining their home grown players when they’ve got two dudes they traded for in addition to those guys. Sometimes it’s really not just that you can’t keep your original guys, you’re talking about keeping them and the new guys. 

You disagreed owners won this CBA and I agree with you in pointing out the money split. I would add, though, that the owners wanted fans, in talking about high cost teams, to talk about second apron penalties and not them being cheap. The fact that every discussion like this features us acting like these penalties are the most draconian limitations is, I believe, a very much intentional W for the owners.  

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u/Ryoga476ad 17h ago

The thing is that calling owners "cheap" is missing the point. It's a close system, they are all business partners. The amont of money they collectively spend on player is fixed. They decided that they want to avoid having too large of a variance in geam payrolls, but whenever somone is spending too much, both on payroll and tax, he's funding the other owners, not the players. To be honest, I think it's better for fans as well to have a clear number you know nobody is going to consistently surpass. This way we can focus on team construction and strategy, rather than expecting your owner to be an oitlier in spending.

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u/EggsAndRice7171 Pacers 1d ago

Not my favorite system but it hasn’t been since they announced it for all these reasons. Most people seem to like it this way so it is what it is

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u/smkmn13 Timberwolves 1d ago

Exactly - it’s not a financial issue (most of the time), it’s a flexibility issue.

Owners really got a big W with this CBA

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u/Ryoga476ad 21h ago

Owners getting exactly the same money wirh this CBA.

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u/Remarkable_Tea878 15h ago

From where? I’m curious and want to know

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u/hydraO1 Nets 1d ago

At least it has the consequence of improving parity

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u/moldy912 Cavaliers 1d ago

This is a good thing, Adam Silver is right. I think it's way more exciting to not have "dynasties". The only part I don't like is it's hard to buy a jersey without worrying the player is gonna leave next season when they're expensive af.

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u/Arsno 16h ago

the upside is that there's more parity in the league if you can't build and maintain a super team

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u/CCWaterBug 13h ago

Okc got hit pretty hard this off-season,  lost some legit talent for 2nd round compensation 

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u/TheReal_Slim-Shady NBA 12h ago

Yes. it also helps NBA to keep Jordan comparisons until they find someone like him. Once they do, rules will be relaxed.

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u/EfficientReach5571 Knicks 1d ago

meh, they’ll figure it out. gotta have something to talk about until then i guess

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u/Sparrow_Wilson Knicks 1d ago

KAT will get extended regardless, so will Hart. The only real question feels like if McBride gets extended and that will depend on the KAT & Hart extensions

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u/SunKing210 Spurs 1d ago

Maybe they are looking more down the line? As of now, Knicks are barely under the 2nd apron and after next season (2027-28) both Brunson and Anunoby are due for massive extensions.

I don’t see how they retain all of those guys, unfortunately this is the cost of having a bunch of solid players in today’s CBA

4

u/Sparrow_Wilson Knicks 1d ago

Maybe. I've always been of the opinion that we will eventually go into the second apron with the OG and Brunson extensions for 2 years before blowing it up or retooling in 2030 depending on how everyone is aging. Maybe Dolan will point blank refuse to go into the second apron at all but the penalties feel manageable as long as we dip out after 2 years of being in it

4

u/yiwang1 Knicks 1d ago

I think there’s a very specific 2 year window where we can go into second apron, i think the first couple years of Jalen’s extension. There was a detailed breakdown of this by Knicksfantv where they concluded Mitch was leaving far before it happened, because going into the apron now basically guarantees this team gets blown up in 2 years, but waiting and going all in in a couple years can extend our contention window to around 2030 as you said.

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u/LemonButterRum 1d ago

Hart obviously needs to take a 10% pay cut since he's playing with 9 fingers.

3

u/Difficult_Tackle9505 1d ago

Brunson has to pay 10% more because he's in possession of harts finger

1

u/AleroRatking Vancouver Grizzlies 1d ago

I'm not sure how they can afford KAT at 60 mil

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u/National_Call7137 1d ago

Somebody want to tell that to KAT? I think it would be news to him.

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u/Dav136 Knicks 1d ago

There's no chance we can extend Deuce, he'll be traded

1

u/notacptmorgan Knicks 1d ago

I always thought McBride would eventually be the odd man out. They got an absolute steal on his extension and  imagine he’d try to be a starter on big money somewhere else

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u/Outrageous_Library50 Lakers 1d ago

You move Kat, there’s goes your chances for a repeat 

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u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 1d ago

Yeah KAT can't get moved 

4

u/Barracuda374 Heat 1d ago

KAT is a warrior if that happens

6

u/herseyhawkins33 1d ago

Not worried. It's a huge contract negotiation. He wants to be here. Highly likely he stays.

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u/OwnYourChildren 1d ago

Must be nice to be the Knicks. They can actually exert leverage in these situations.

Meanwhile, for us raptors fans, we are giving out player options like candy for role players and extending guys like poeltl a year early for above market money.

5

u/Longjumping_Loan6330 18h ago

What the hell is the point in owning the ny Knicks if you’re not gonna pony up when the team is actually good again.

It’s like driving a car with a governor on it when you know how to disable it

4

u/ObiOneKenobae Knicks 1d ago

Not stressed

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u/Decent_Management449 1d ago

Dear KAT,

Please come back to Minnesota.

Sincerely,

ALL of Minnesota

4

u/Tracuivel Knicks 1d ago

You gave him up for the same reason the Knicks can't extend him now. I don't reckon much has changed on that front for you guys, unfortunately.

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u/Decent_Management449 1d ago edited 1d ago

Randle and Naz are gone now, surely that frees up some cap space.

Kuminga is the key now, and it could go at least a dozen different ways, with a few of them with KAT on the roster.

And deep down, I bet KAT loves Minnesota more than New York, being a low-key, humble kind of guy.

2

u/Miserable-Bonus9355 Knicks 1d ago

i love waiting in anticipation

2

u/Lianafelice21 1d ago

Oh no no no

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u/2020IsANightmare 1d ago

I am no Knicks fan - hell, not sure there's a team I'd root for them against in a playoff series - but, I hate the apron bullshit for basketball.

Why should title teams (Boston also did it this offseason) have to break up teams???

2

u/fps129 Knicks 1d ago

Not worried.

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u/Hinohellono Knicks 1d ago

I'd give Kat 3 years at 170mm. Or 4 for 200mm.

Years or money

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u/SwizzGod Lakers 1d ago

McBride has to find a new home

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u/vohit4rohit Knicks 1d ago

Deuce will be dealt, we’ve got depth at that position

2

u/WTF4211 14h ago

He’s going to re-sign.
A. He wants to stay.
B. Knicks will pay him a boatload.
C. No team going to wildly outbid the Knicks to make it worthwhile to leave.

This is Duren bs all over. He was always going to re-sign. Podcast nerds incapable of finding anything interesting to discuss so they create bs.

3

u/jamo527 1d ago

McCollum took down the Celtics now the Knicks!

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u/AleroRatking Vancouver Grizzlies 1d ago

KAT was a key center point at winning them a title. He absolutely deserves to get paid. If the Knicks don't he absolutely should go out and get paid what he deserves elsewhere

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u/twozeromm Heat 1d ago

God I can't wait till this CBA is changed. Makes no sense

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u/Ryoga476ad 21h ago

I ❤️ the new CBA

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u/wavecycle Cavaliers 15h ago

You like dynasties???

2

u/twozeromm Heat 15h ago

I like the idea of teams being able to keep what they’ve built together and actually being rewarded for smart trades, drafting, and roster building. Instead, the CBA almost punishes teams for being successful. We saw it happen with OKC, and now the Knicks are running into the same problem, where keeping a team they built legitimately becomes harder simply because they built it well.

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u/wavecycle Cavaliers 14h ago

That's the tradeoff.

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u/stepbacktree NBA 1d ago

KAT will have made $342 million in career earnings after next year. Wow. I would like to think taking a discount so his boy Hart can get a reasonable deal wouldn’t be an issue. Deuce on the other hand is likely the odd man out.

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u/Jarxzz United States 1d ago

Why are players wanting to be paid the most amount possible a surprising thing? Sports is the only place discounts are talked about let alone expected

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u/Aaaaaaandyy Knicks 1d ago

That happens with normal jobs too. I could easily make more money elsewhere - at a company that might treat me worse, with people I don’t know and have no built up trust with, but I don’t do that because I already make more than enough where I’m at and like who I work with.

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u/Busy_Project_7229 1d ago

Would you take a paycut for your coworker? Lmao something tells me most wouldn’t

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u/stepbacktree NBA 1d ago

If they are projected to get 550 million in career earnings plus the fame and notoriety of being in NYC and winning with the Knicks - I bet a lot would take a pay cut.

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u/RealLanceStorm Nets 1d ago

James Dolan made a lot more money off the Knicks. He could lower the ticket prices to reward the fans or risk going over cap/fucking with apron to reward players.

Of all NBA teams to have a dream run worthy of risking it to pay the players, is it not this Knicks championship roster based off what they did and how big it was for franchise history? Not saying they even should but money means less to Dolan than KAT bar for bar.

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u/stepbacktree NBA 1d ago

If the second apron didn’t exist, I would absolutely agree with you. But those penalties will restrict their ability to win future championships

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u/AsleepHour7763 Trail Blazers 1d ago

Nothing says rewarding the fans like dooming ur team towards future irrelevancy with second apron penalties

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u/RadicalMarxistThalia Knicks 1d ago

I don’t remember all the math but in a hoops collective podcast episode windhorst did some math (or maybe he just read the financial statements of the company idk) where he basically said after the tax bill the Knicks made 30 million after winning the finals.

That did include the Knicks (franchise) renegotiating a deal with the regional broadcaster (msg, which Dolan also has a large stake in) where the broadcaster pays less to keep the broadcaster in the black. But still… the value of NBA teams is going up, the actual profitability of them isn’t necessarily that great.

In the long run yeah it’ll be fine for owners. In the short run cash-flow issues are legitimate.

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u/Datboy_98 Spurs 1d ago

He’s also looking at his final near max contract and just balled out in the Finals. It’s not fair to expect him to eat a $76m loss. He won’t ever make that back.

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u/Wild_Notice_8216 1d ago

Dolan Can afford to pay both KAT and Hart. They’ve won him a championship and made billions for him. Don’t put it on Kat.

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u/AsleepHour7763 Trail Blazers 1d ago

Ballmer could afford to pay kawhi a lot more, howd that workout for him? Second apron completely fucks the teams future

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u/elev57 Knicks 1d ago

It's not about affording. Breaching the second apron is debilitating from a team management point of view, so no GM would willingly put themself in that position.

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u/Wild_Notice_8216 1d ago

It’s not debilitating if you’re already a championship team which they’re, you just making excuses for billionaires.

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u/yiwang1 Knicks 1d ago

The team likely has a specific plan to dip into second apron one or two seasons from now when Jalen signs his mega deal, and you can only be in the second apron for 2 years or you start losing draft picks. If we never go into the apron then it was definitely greed which is possible, but the way they are operating makes me think it’s more likely they are trying to stretch out the contention window for as long as possible

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u/CheatedOnOnce Raptors 1d ago

No one has the desire for multiple chips

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u/NotClayMerritt Lakers 1d ago

The 2nd apron was the only created to manufacture offseason drama with trades because nobody is making waves in free agency anymore

It’s a stain on the NBA and should have never been allowed

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u/Saucy_Totchie Knicks 1d ago

Good thing the Knicks won the championship. Makes all this stuff hurt significantly less lol. Having to go through these negotiations while having not done anything would really suck.

I feel McBride is sadly the odd man out here. Hard to replace KATs skill set for his position and Hart's chemistry with Brunson. After Mitch left, McBride is one of the last home grown pieces from a while back. Hope he gets his bag though.

2

u/DanTheMan14331 Knicks 1d ago

The annoying thing is if Dolan wasn’t being a cheapskate there would be a very easy solution. Stay under the second apron in ‘27 and ‘28, then go over in ‘29 and ‘30 once Brunson’s extension kicks in. At that point, they can start selling off pieces as the core ages and they start gaining control over their picks again. But instead, Dolan’s unwillingness to pay second apron taxes is going to cause huge problems in a few years 

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u/MagicianMoo Suns 1d ago

No one is gonna above the second. Everyone is just letting them go.

8

u/duplicatesnowflake Clippers 1d ago

Being in the 2nd apron cripples your teams ability to make all sorts of moves. You can screw up a team for years if you get stuck there with the wrong core players locked in.

Dolan has made many bad moves over the years and is notoriously known as an asshole. He's not known for being cheap really. This is more about a long term vision for the product on the floor than it is about saving money in luxury taxes.

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u/RadicalMarxistThalia Knicks 1d ago

I try to just dump on Dolan but this is kind of true. If we accepted we’d be going over the 2nd apron to keep the team together after the Brunson extension we’d really have a lot less drama.

We’ll see how it works out though. Maybe his public announcements are just bluster and we’ll go over it when the time comes (which I don’t think is this year).

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u/gm5891 1d ago

Sucks to have a shadow over the season but hopefully the ring ceremony and lingering championship vibe, uh, overshadows... That shadow

1

u/goknicks23 1d ago

Let's play it out and see who deserves it

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u/Wild-Bid8858 23h ago

Nah. Keep that knicks team intact please. I wanna see the spurs kicking their ass this season.

1

u/BLKDYNAMITE72 17h ago

You guys also have to take in consideration that Pacome Dadiet can be traded in cap space (with added 2nd picks) by October 31st. That would free up the 5 mil that works be owed to him for 27-28.

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u/WoweeZoweeDeluxe Spurs 17h ago

One and done

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u/97PunkRawk Celtics 17h ago

Welcome to post championship apron hell Knicks bros

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u/Jmpasq Knicks 8h ago

The team needs to let Mcbride and Hart go. Problem is Hart is friends with Brunson

0

u/Joezepey Knicks 1d ago

Good. KAT is worth more than 50m. Fuck Dolans cheap ass

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u/sillyshoestring Knicks 1d ago

They’ll find the sweet spot

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u/theomegachrist 1d ago

This is worrisome. The best way to not go into the second apron is for the Knicks to extend off of KATs player option and once the season starts they can only extend him if he opts out, so he will likely go all season without an extension

3

u/ositola Lakers 1d ago

KAT isn't taking less than 55M/yr and I doubt he takes less than 58 if his max is 69

1

u/dreamvomit Knicks 1d ago

4/220 would be perfect for both sides I think

2

u/ositola Lakers 1d ago

That's a pay cut 

I think you have to give him at least what he's getting now

Honestly, if he would take 4/220, he would have already been extended

1

u/dreamvomit Knicks 23h ago

Tbf this would be 4 years starting when he’s about to be 32. 55 at 32-36 isn’t bad. And I think he’ll take slightly less than he wants to keep the team together. But it could be more like 240

2

u/PianoJealous307 1d ago

Yep, extending KAT before the season starts would be HUGE for the Knicks.

1

u/theomegachrist 1d ago

Yeah, if they go into the season it's bad for the Knicks to extend. I don't think he'd play it safe but sucks to have that in the back of your mind.

1

u/mandofrank Raptors 1d ago

Give KAT the Kawhi treatment 🙂‍↕️

1

u/Comfortable-Key-8151 1d ago

This is a non-story, all three of these guys will get paid

Probably the Knicks will have to choose between Josh Hart and Miles McBride in order to avoid the second apron, probably they choose Hart, McBride is no great loss