r/japan • u/AdSpecialist6598 • 4d ago
Japan raises permanent residency fee by 20 times
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6y8z8xeg8j1o479
u/redthrull 4d ago
Kicking out the law-abiding residents, while the touts in Shinjuku get to stay. 🤡
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u/cookiemountains 4d ago
This pisses me off. Touts will drug you and steal money off your card for things you didn't pay for. It's a huge scam and from my understanding only happens in Shinjuku
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u/Avedas 4d ago
Used to be Roppongi, but the club scene there mostly died with covid.
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u/AbekobetaHawawa 4d ago
I'm old and haven't been out bar-hopping or clubbing in years and was confused when there were only mentions of Kabukicho touts in the last few years. Kabukicho used to only be a couple guys asking if I like tiddies that were easily ignored. Walking around in Roppongi was very annoying.
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u/cactus82 4d ago
So how is Roppongi these days?
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u/ExcessiveEscargot 4d ago
In one word? Corporate. Touts clearing out took off the rough edges but also left it feeling a bit more sterile and clinical.
Still plenty of opportunity for a good night out, but it wouldn't even be in my top 10.
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u/woah-wait-a-second 4d ago
Legitimately why is this okay?
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u/yellowplums 2d ago
Because those touts work for the yakuza and are protected by the police.
I don’t understand how barely anyone understands this. Things been going on for the better part of half a century now guys.
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u/ACETroopa 4d ago
How it was explained to me is that these people moved to Japan way back when and already have permanent residency so kicking them out is probably next to impossible that in the fact that Tokyo law-enforcement and Shinjuku or just even in general don’t do anything yet we’re targeting residence and yet you have these people scamming attacking and hurling, verbal, threatening insults to you in public, regardless if you engage with them or not, and you try to go about your business. I swear what needs to really happen. Is you know how in Tokyo vice Jake goes around covering yakuza right there needs to be some kind of reporter or some type of video that just basically puts Shinjuku specifically copy Kabukicho on blast to say hey these touts here are hurting both local and tourist. You need to do something about them, punish them and take away their PR, deport, and permanently ban them immediately. Do a full sweep or raid, close those bars and replace them with local businesses that both local and tourists can enjoy without being harassed and instill the fear of god that if you are out there doing that in this area you’re gone.
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u/borderlinebadger 4d ago
no way its impossible they just don't care as long as its restricted to that area and the right people get their donations etc.
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u/Beginning_Special894 1d ago
If you don't mind clarifying I'm finding the comments here confusing.
You said these people have had permanent residency and moved in a long time ago, and that they should be deported, but any definition of the word "tout" that I can find online just says it's people scamming you on the street. ????
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u/ponytailnoshushu [愛知県] 4d ago
I think its very clear that the JP government wants foreigners to understand thier temporary status in Japan. You come and work here for a few years, pay into a pension you won't get back, be healthy and not use the health system you pay into. Then go back to your country and tell everyone how great it is here.
The question is how quickly with the foreigner revolving door stop? I also see new visa types in the future that tie foreign workers to one company but are for longer periods perhaps moving towards some of the types we see in S.korea.
I also think the language ability of the foreign community with plummet as who would want to learn a language for a temporary job?
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u/soorr 2d ago
Yeah this was my conclusion 17 years ago as an exchange student to Japan in high school who learned Japanese and even opted to remain and study an extra year afterwards. I was looking at Japanese language university programs in the US and Japan, ready to invest my career and future in Japan, and it suddenly dawned on me that I didn't want to be treated as an outsider for the rest of my life. I've always loved Japan but if I could go back in time, I would probably choose a different country to invest my time in. Silver lining is at least it taught me a lot about my own culture from being immersed in another.
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u/domesticatedprimate 4d ago
OK, it's expensive now and it sucks, but the PR price increase isn't the problem and yes, you can argue that the prices are now closer to international standards.
The bigger problem for PR is not the price, it's the impossibility of a lot of long term residents to meet the income standards anymore. I got PR in 2016. I would not qualify today. I have paid Japanese taxes for over 30 years and my chance of getting PR now would be zero.
A bigger problem than that is the significant price increase for regular visa renewals that make visa holders think twice before renewing. Way to go Japan, making a country that's increasingly unattractive as an immigration or work destination even more unattractive just when Japan desperately needs foreign workers.
The business visa! This is the most insulting, sociopathic change of all. Claiming that they want to cut down on the number of (Chinese) people making a fake business so they can just "buy" a visa, they've basically priced legitimate small business owners out of the country, forcing valuable foreigner-run businesses that have been contributing to Japanese society for sometimes 40+ years to suddenly close their doors forever. And the punchline is that the ones who were using the visa to buy permission to stay in Japan can probably afford the new standards anyway.
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u/Extrapolates_Wildly 4d ago
Aligned with international standards, as opposed to my yen based salary which is not.
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u/Excellent_Shower_232 3d ago
They clearly don't want foreigners no matter what. Even if they need them, even if their country depends on it.
They must see the state of the other countries and have decided to go down with the ship or whatever saying matches. It's very sad.
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u/nemuri_no_kogoro 4d ago
Claiming that they want to cut down on the number of (Chinese) people
Nah, this was aimed at Indians/SEAsians who ran shops with no Japanese employees.
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u/woah-wait-a-second 4d ago
Genuine question, why do people still want to move here?
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u/O-Namazu 3d ago
Apart from the "culture" comments, I imagine safety and quality of life is still attractive. I think people who live in Japan forget about actual dangerous crime and unaffordable healthcare (looking at the USA in particular).
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u/domesticatedprimate 4d ago
I mean if you're really into Japanese culture or want to get into some kind of occupation specifically with or in Japan, where else are you going to go?
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u/woah-wait-a-second 4d ago
But, it feels like a lot of people complain about everything in Japan 😭 Maybe I'm dumb but I don't really understand
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u/domesticatedprimate 4d ago
OK, how about this:
I moved here in 1988 and have lived here ever since.
For 38 years, things were fine. Awesome in fact. Really nothing major to complain about for me personally.
Then Takaichi got elected and suddenly she and Onoda are making me feel genuinely unwelcome. Not from my friends and community, but from the Japanese government. It clearly suddenly doesn't want me here or people like me.
I think that's something worthy of complaining about. It pisses me off.
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u/woah-wait-a-second 4d ago
Ohh I got it. That definitely applies to people already ready there, I guess I’m curious about people that want to move there now
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u/Zero_Border 1d ago
When you have been working for 15 years on the subject, with the idea of being stable enough, knowledgeable enough, and are now really ready to move in a foreign country that is poorer than yours... maybe you'll understand why this does not cancel your will to move in that country. Especially since your bought your plane ticket before the person was elected.
How hard can it be to understand that a lot of people usually prepare for YEARS their plan to move in another country. Especially when this country is Japan.
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u/LigmaLiberty 1d ago
I don't really follow Japanese politics closely but Takaichi seems like, to me as an American, mini Japanese trump. Viewed from that lens absolutely moronic immigration policy is expected.
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u/domesticatedprimate 1d ago
Yes and no. She's definitely more competant and intelligent than Trump by several orders of magnitude.
But she's still quite a piece of work. She prides herself on only getting a few hours of sleep a night and, until she was called out, expected everyone around her to do the same. She's also definitely an old school conservative who has no introspection or self awareness, doesn't understand what makes people tick, doesn't understand the struggles of normal people, or really any of that, so her policies are based on ideological conservative pipe dreams about how her Ayn Rand-loving brain thinks things ought to be with no basis in reality whatsoever.
She's also in Thiel's pocket, so there's that.
I guess I'd call her sort of a relatively incompetant version of Thatcher.
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u/LigmaLiberty 1d ago
God I would hope she's more competent than Trump. That's an absurdly low bar to clear.
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u/domesticatedprimate 1d ago
Indeed perhaps the lowest in recorded history, or at least in fierce competition for that particular superlative.
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u/TheJapanMistake 4d ago
I'm really into Japanese culture and I want back to Europe. I realized Japanese culture is more fascinating when it's far away, rather than right there
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u/domesticatedprimate 4d ago
Username checks out.
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u/kniq86 2d ago
Dang, I'm not going to create a new account for it, but I'm living in Europe (and enjoying it) but looking forward to buying or renting a house in Japan
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u/domesticatedprimate 2d ago
DM me. I liaison between foreign buyers and Japanese real estate agents. I help find properties, manage tax and utilities when you're away, and that sort of thing.
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u/98746145315 4d ago
What a surprise, the income standard and the extra costs are out of reach for foreign teachers and conbini staff. Surely this is a coincidence.
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u/Any_Calligrapher8537 4d ago
Let me be clear to anyone reading this.
I ain't paying this. When my visa comes up for renewal. My business of over 20 years and I will leave. Period.
This is nothing but political bullshit to score votes with racists. A punishment for being born abroad.
Fuck em
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u/Well_needships 4d ago
You've been here for 20 years and don't have PR?
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u/lofty-goals 4d ago
It’s tough for business owners to get PR. It’s a common problem.
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u/Well_needships 4d ago
Perhaps I am unfamiliar with it, but why? Wouldn't they meet all of the requirements? What is the difficulty?
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u/lofty-goals 4d ago
Stability. Japan prefers long-time employment over entrepreneurship.
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4d ago
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u/Well_needships 4d ago
resets your clock
How so?
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4d ago
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u/Well_needships 3d ago
? Leaving for a few months does not reset your clock.
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3d ago
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u/Well_needships 3d ago
You have it if you are not leaving the country for the majority of the days of the year.
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u/Tenezill 3d ago edited 3d ago
Because of 1270$?
Calling bullshit on this one, 20 years and no PR and the price hike is doable for everyone with a normal job.
Edit: 1100$->1270$ to be more accurate
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u/psicopbester [愛知県] 4d ago
You dont have PR after 20 years?
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4d ago
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u/Beneficial-Maize-669 4d ago
No it doesn’t. Leaving for 180days while asking the pension office to suspend your payments you might reset the clock. As long as you have a valid visa, permission to re enter, are paying tax, nenkin and hoken, you can be outside Japan for the entire duration of your re entry permit.
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u/psicopbester [愛知県] 4d ago
Leaving for a few months resets your clock? Are you sure about that? Im not saying you're wrong, but that seems crazy.
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4d ago
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u/hobovalentine 4d ago
Leaving doesn’t reset the clock if it’s just a couple months. Leaving for maybe 6 month long periods might do it though but you’ve not given us any information to go off of.
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u/cumforwonhee 2d ago
Japan is just doing the Singapore method. They want you to come here but not to retire or settle.
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u/DontG00GLEme 1d ago
You're not supposed to pay this you're supposed to pass it on to your employer
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u/AmbitiousReception 4d ago
Did you look at his one post with a bunch of kanji in it and assume it was Chinese.
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u/Scary_Vehicle9023 4d ago
Amazing that a country can raise the fees by that amount and it still be cheaper than the UK.
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u/Pitiful_Addendum_644 4d ago
Wages are lower in line with cost of living. This new fee is on par with monthly tax home pay for the average worker in Japan
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u/SFHalfling 4d ago
Cost in the UK is about £3500 for PR equivalent, +£500 for priority or +£1000 for next day decision.
The average monthly post tax salary is £2600 so the JP one is still more affordable.
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u/Famous__Draw 4d ago
I would pay 1000 pound for a next day decision
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u/SFHalfling 4d ago
£500 is 5 days so I'd go for that, but yeah it's probably the only part that is worth the money.
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u/ServiceServices 4d ago
Japan won't go out with a bang. It will go out with a whimper. Just doomed to fail and it will be their own fault
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u/Hefty-Feed1400 4d ago
And then they are entitled to a significant chunk of my inheritance despite my ancestors never having stepped foot in Japan.
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u/bluedeer1881 4d ago
Why? I mean, it is said that immigration is good for Japan because it fills job vacancies.
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u/Agitated_Maximum_277 4d ago
They want foreigners to work here, mostly service and manual labor, but retire in their home countries.
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u/PhoenixKingMalekith 4d ago
Wouldn't retired people be a net positive if they bring money from abroad ?
Like long time tourists ?
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u/BureMakutte 4d ago
Retired people, unless they are swimming in money, are typically more costly on an economy. Especially one that has more social services. Most people don't fall into the swimming in money category.
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u/phusuke 4d ago
Japan is one of the few major countries that doesn’t have a retirement visa, where wealthy retirees can come and spend their money there and live. Every country in Europe, most others in Asia do this. They qualify residents based on monthly retirement income or total net worth. Japan could set this higher than other countries if it wants to be selective but don’t have one at all.
So it does seem like it’s not about costs and the economy. It’s more of a demographics based decision.3
u/Adventurous_Good1061 4d ago
China is a major country that doesn’t have a retirement visa.
And the U.S….. and Canada, and the UK
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u/hobovalentine 4d ago
Which developed nation has a retirement visa?
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u/phusuke 3d ago
Almost all the major countries in Western Europe have retirement visas. Added to this, almost every major country including USA , Canada, UK have / till recently had investment visas where you get residency with path to citizenship via investment. Japan has neither. It really doesn’t seem to be about economics when it comes to Japan.
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u/Synaps4 4d ago
Not that japan has a visa category for those who are swimming in money, so I don't think we should credit japan with being especially thoughtful about this.
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u/laststance 4d ago
Why? They already see how much a drain an elderly population can have on society. They don't want to extend the social programs to elderly foreigners.
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u/Atreyu1002 4d ago
Japan is a homogenous society and they like it that way. In fact most societies want to be homogenous, but usually the ones that are most proactive about it aren't nearly as polite, clean and educated.
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u/rocket-engifar 4d ago
If retirees have enough money to be a net positive, the fees would be nothing to think about for them.
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u/Pale-Angle1224 15h ago
Yup. Not only that, Japan has the 2nd oldest population in the world and very low fertility rates. In a few years, they'll be begging people to come.
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u/Michi2801 4d ago
How much is it now? Can someone give an example? Do you have to pay yearly?
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4d ago
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u/Lamuks 4d ago
Don't most countries require salaries above average?
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u/Lamuks 4d ago
That's why usually it gets normalized. That said the Visas and PR requirements often state salary above average and it's usually very much achievable.
Just looking at this from the sidelines it looks odd. If a majority of PR receivers are under the average then I can see why the rule was made.
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u/reaper527 [アメリカ] 4d ago
How much is it now?
the article isn't clear. there is a sub-headline that says:
Japan has raised fees for foreigners seeking permanent residency in the country by 20 times to 200,000 yen ($1,270; £955).
but literally nothing in the article seems to back that statement up, and in fact seems to disprove it.
also FTA:
From 1 October, the fee varies according to the duration of stay sought – from 10,000 yen for three months or less, to 75,000 yen for five years or more.
so the 5 years or more rate they cite is less than half what the sub-headline says.
all in all, seems like a case of "journalism is dead" and a poorly written article.
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u/mca62511 [秋田県] 4d ago
but literally nothing in the article seems to back that statement up, and in fact seems to disprove it.
The fee for Permanent Residency, which has no expiration, is being raised from 10,000 yen to 200,000 yen. That's a 20-fold hike.
so the 5 years or more rate they cite is less than half what the sub-headline says
This applies to all other visa types which do have an expiration.
The fee tier in the regulation says "5年以上", which literally translates to "five years or more," but the ISA does not issue visas (other than for PR and Highly Skilled Professional 2) at more than five years. So effectively this is "five years for 75,000 yen."
Nothing in the article is contradictory.
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u/My_Dramatic_Persona 4d ago
You are comparing two different things.
If they are seeking to stay for a duration, that’s not permanent residency. That’s a different kind of visa.
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u/Gingertiger94 4d ago
I'm moving out of Japan but I've got a lot of friends here, and I think this is gross
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u/comevibewtme 4d ago
Well can they make the monthly contribution to nenkin optional? If they want foreigners here to work and return to their country after, why would i need to pay the nenkin? It doesn’t and wont give me benefits if i don’t retire here in japan.
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u/nevergonnasweepalone 4d ago
Seems to me they want foreign workers to subsidize their aging population.
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u/Thecyberabyss 4d ago
This!!! If they don’t want foreigners then pension should be optional. Make it make sense
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u/meritbasedpromotion 4d ago edited 4d ago
Up to 5 years of nenkin can be refunded when you leave Japan.
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u/comevibewtme 3d ago
Well the point is why pay to the system just to refund it when leaving, could’ve not paid at all and saved the time applying and processing the refund. If the point is to let foreign workers work then go back home to their country then paying to the nenkin system is a waste of time for both parties.
Also there’s the 20% tax which you can only claim partially if you have a representative here in japan. So it’s such a long and tiring process which could’ve been avoided if it’s not mandatory for the foreign workers who they don’t want getting PRs or citizenships.
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u/meritbasedpromotion 3d ago edited 3d ago
Have to go back to your original post. You are eligible to collect nenkin even if you don't retire in Japan. You don't lose it if you leave. It's a benefit that stays with you no matter where you are in the world.
You can wait until you retire to collect or if you leave Japan and want to give up the retirement benefits, you can get 5 years of your contributions refunded. It's not complicated either. It's about 1-2 hours worth of paperwork.
The only scenarios where you potentially lose contributions are if you leave Japan with less than the 10 years of contributions needed to qualify for nenkin, never return, and never accumulate enough coverage in a country that has a social-security totalization agreement with Japan (USA, Philippines, Australia, etc...).
Or if you deliberately take the refund with 6 to 9 years of contributions.
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u/OkMathematician6638 2d ago
Interest. It’s a free loan for the government. As a pool it can be significant.
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u/LigmaLiberty 1d ago
They could but I think they are trying to increase tax revenues by making it hard for permanent residents who still have to pay taxes, to stay in country long enough to retire and take out their pensions
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u/PinnappleOnPizzaEnjo 3d ago
¥10,000 → ¥200,000; from $50 to $1100. Ok and? What do you think the price should be?
Have you seen what other countries charge or is this just a run of the mill anti-Japan post?
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u/cookiesnooper 3d ago
Seems like Japan is trying to evict the foreigners who can't even save up that little money. Good move.
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u/PinnappleOnPizzaEnjo 1d ago
If you can't come up with $1100 after 10 years of living in the country, that says more about you than Japan.
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u/Yakitori2026 4d ago
I think this is only going to affect low income workers from other countries, how is a lowly paid healthcare worker from the Philippines going to make more than the average of other hospital workers? Don't think they thought this through.
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u/meritbasedpromotion 4d ago
The lowly paid healthcare workers from the Philippines are on SSW1 visas and they have never been eligible to apply for permanent residency.
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u/swordtech [兵庫県] 4d ago
The argument for requiring PR applicants to have an income higher than the national average never made sense. Why should I make more than the average citizen just so I can have fewer rights? Having PR doesn't grant the right to vote. It's xenophobia all the way down.
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u/SnooWords3942 4d ago
The national average is skewed by Tokyo, where the cost of living is much higher. And Japan has a problem with everyone moving to tokyo for better work opportunities, leaving the countryside with not enough workers. If a foreigner wants to live in the countryside and do a job that pays lower than the national average, isn't that good for society? Japan has enough high paid executives, so why are those the only desirable immigrants?
I understand the government doesn't want people to come and live on welfare, they want people who can support themselves financially. But there is a big gap between the income they are requiring for PR, and the amount needed to support oneself in the countryside...
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u/reaper527 [アメリカ] 4d ago
sounds like one of those things where you get click bait headlines because the old rates were so artificially low.
when was the last time these fees were increased? the article mentions the visa fees haven't been increased in over 50 years, but doesn't say when the premanent residency fees were last adjusted.
From 1 October, the fee varies according to the duration of stay sought – from 10,000 yen for three months or less, to 75,000 yen for five years or more.
that isn't very expensive in the grand scheme of things (and is cheaper than many other first world nations. to get permanent residency in the us you'd be paying double that)
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u/e_ccentricity 4d ago
I think you are getting things mixed up?
You cited work visa fees. In the US the employer pays the large price and the employee simply pays the ~200usd processing fee.
PR is 200000 yen. And as many people have said in the comments. It is less about the price and more about the requirements to even apply are increasingly impossible for many.
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u/DownrightCaterpillar 4d ago
that isn't very expensive in the grand scheme of things (and is cheaper than many other first world nations. to get permanent residency in the us you'd be paying double that)
Why do people always leave these kinds of comments? It's as if you do not understand that someone applying for PR has been making their money in Japan for at least a decade. Japan pays lower wages, so necessarily it needs a much, much lower cost for PR.
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u/hobovalentine 4d ago
If you’re angling for a PR and can’t afford the 200k that’s not a good sign that you’re going to be the kind of person that Japan wants permanently.
A green card application costs like 2-3k usd and with the exchange rate today that’s even more comparatively.
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u/basinbasinbasin 4d ago
Feature Japan Permanent Residency US Green Card Income Benchmark Above average household income (~¥5.75M) 125% of Federal Poverty Line Application Cost ~¥200,000 ($1,270 USD) ~$1,225 - $1,440 USD Language Requirement Conversational Japanese (New) None (English not legally required for PR) Public Charge Focus Strict self-sufficiency & pension proof Standard public charge assessment ... the point you keep ignoring is that the green card is roughly the same price as PR, but you can get a green card in a few years and make on average double the yearly salary as in japan. You also don't have to learn english to get a green card. On the flip side it takes usually well over 10 years to even apply for japan PR, while making less money then you could make in the US and needing to be fluent in Japanese.
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u/Beneficial-Maize-669 4d ago
I know people that have gone through a decade of quarterly interviews and are still waiting. The US is a thousand times more difficult to get PR.
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u/basinbasinbasin 3d ago
Weird, I know people that come in tourist visas and get a fast track to green card status by marrying an American.
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u/hobovalentine 4d ago
The green card is not easy to get and it is by no means permanent and you’ll lose it if you commit major felonies or don’t abide by the requirements.
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u/meritbasedpromotion 3d ago edited 3d ago
The difficulty of getting a US Green Card is finding a company willing to sponsor you for an employment-based immigrant visa. Or being so elite that you can self-petition for immigration.
This first step is far more restrictive and complicated than anything comparable in Japan.
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u/RedRedditor84 4d ago
And it's still much cheaper than what Australia has been charging for a long time.
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u/FishingGlob 4d ago
That’s crazy how Australia has fuck all to do with this
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u/RedRedditor84 4d ago
The comment I responded to compared to other first-world nations. I was corroborating that. Relax.
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u/Big_Custardman 4d ago
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Japan has raised fees for foreigners seeking permanent residency in the country by 20 times to 200,000 yen ($1,270; £955).
Those seeking permanent residency must now also meet new income, pension and Japanese-language requirements.
///
Seems Reasonable.
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u/JanArso 4d ago
I congratulate the Takaichi apologist crowd to yet another shot in the own foot.
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u/lostinelydan 4d ago
“But it’s not that bad! Come on guys! It’s still not that expensive! We gotta give her another chance! She’s our okaa-san and means well, ne?”
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u/JanArso 3d ago
The foreigners coming to defend her are my favorite. Last year I saw a german defending her for "only going after illegal foreigners" and now the same guy is whining about how hard it's getting and how his request for a japanese passport was denied. Pick-Me behaviour doesn't make one immune to discrimination.
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u/Santi_Stein 1d ago
This should help the declining birth rates.
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u/ArtichokeAware7342 1d ago
Pretty sure they’d rather go extinct than mate with a bunch of weebo losers.
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u/Gongwonlove 4d ago
Japan making itself go extinct from stupidity.
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u/Technotology 4d ago
Their land, their people, their government and they've spoken and made up their mind.
Who the fuck are we to question what they want to do?
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u/Wooden_Boss_3403 4d ago
I mean, I agree it is their country, so they should be able to handle their own affairs as they choose.
But boy are they choosing poorly.
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u/Signal-Treacle-5512 4d ago
The fee for tourist visa weny through the roof as well a few months ago. I won't be going back.
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u/Akemi_Tachibana 4d ago
History books will show how a country once known as Japan killed itself by choice.
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u/calypsoartania 4d ago
So japan is fine with foreigners earning more than their native population, aka relegating low skill low pay work to natives while foreigners get the higher paying jobs? Cant wait to see the narrative around foreigners taking all the good jobs to come around in 5 yrs
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u/hypnotiiik 3d ago
Man this sucks. It’s a shame that the wackos that can stay are those that are ruining Japan. Why? It’s because those people tend to be wealthy so this is a laugh to them when money isn’t an issue.
Except the folks who do respect Japan and are making an honest living to support Japan legitimately will be the ones who get are pushed out. Ugh, what a shame!
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u/hibari112 1d ago
That's their goal though. Bully out all good willed people and only keep those shitty gaijin to prove your nationalistic agenda.
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u/DidntTapDat 4d ago
stupid, racist, self sabotage and a slap in the face to people who have invested so much here
986
u/Far_Government_9782 4d ago
This affects residents. Yet the BBC has chosen to illustrate this with a picture of tourists clowning about in a popular tourist spot...