Hitler may have murdered his niece, new evidence suggests

[u/CucumberWisdom]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/09/23/hitler-may-have-murdered-niece-evidence-suggests/

[u/Welshhoppo]

Hello folks.

Reminder than r/history is a more serious subreddit than your average one.

Remember that all comments should be on topic and relevant to the discussion at hand.

[u/SaffronRnlds]

The neice he was obsessed with? That he locked in his house, kept under surveillance, monitored her every action, controlled her every relationship, and flew into jealous rages about?

The one who died right after he forbid her to fly to Vienna to marry another man?

Weird, that doesn't add up at all ^/s

[u/RedditLodgick → u/SaffronRnlds]

You say that, but historians have always been rather dismissive of the suggestion that Hitler murdered her. And judging from the article, they still are.

[u/poplglop → u/RedditLodgick]

Honestly it does make a lot of sense that she killed herself as well given her trapped situation, could've felt there was no other way out. I also don't really need any additional reasons to despise the dude who's very name now personifies the worst traits a living human could ever have, and her situation is incredibly sad regardless of the the way she died. Really only comes down to whether he directly or indirectly killed her.

[u/Krynn71 → u/poplglop]

To be fair, I would still consider that to be Hitler killing her. Using your power to drive someone to suicide is just murder with extra steps.

[u/CoderDevo → u/Krynn71]

Extra steps was his weapon of choice.

[u/gcsmith2 → u/CoderDevo]

Pretty sure you are referring to the movie the long march.

[u/CoderDevo → u/gcsmith2]

I'm referring to everyone who died at his direction but never by his own hand.

Until he finally did kill the person he should have started with.

[u/Sancticide → u/Krynn71]

Yeah, that's a difference without a distinction.

[u/areweoncops → u/Sancticide]

Distinction without a difference, just fyi.

[u/Organic-Elevator-274 → u/poplglop]

There is some value to parsing this out. The megalomania, genocide, and the myth of the third reich turns Hitler into an almost cartoon villain.
Manipulating his niece into suicide or even killing her himself , it’s so petty it makes him seem less grandiose.

During this resurgence of the strong man that we are all living through it’s probably good to look at someone like Hitler and see Something more akin to Robert Durst than “The Fuhrer”

[u/logosobscura → u/poplglop]

It’s more what that led him to do. The Night of the Long Knives led to him pretty much liquidating anyone who knew anything about Hitler the man, not Hitler the Fuhrer- this event seems to have been the trigger for that. He was evil before hand, the gas attack and hysterical blindness seem to have been the cultivating event for that hole where his soul should have been, but he was entirely unbounded afterwards- a man with no past can write his own future.

That’s a warning from history. Less about him than the serial, constant failures to intercept and shut him down long before his rise as Chancellor, let alone the bunker.

[u/TheRecognized → u/logosobscura]

Could you expand upon the connection you’re seeing between her death/murder and the Night of Long Knives 3 years later?

[u/IronPeter → u/RedditLodgick]

That’s why we don’t go to reddit for historical evidences

[u/Pika256 → u/IronPeter]

But my ignorance opens up many possibilities.

This is a gripe about movies and TV shows that blur reality between historical events and revisionist history. There has to be a happy middle ground of telling a story in an entertaining way without giving the wrong idea of what actually happened.

I'd also like to carve out a space for there being people that aren't actually sure if Godzilla exists or not. So, not accounting for outliers.

[u/TheRecognized → u/Pika256]

Did you reply to the wrong person?

[u/ripyourlungsdave → u/RedditLodgick]

Also, a situation sounding like it could lead to a murder isn't considered actual evidence. That's about as circumstantial as it can get.

Historical claims need evidence, not feelings.

[u/the_scarlett_ning → u/RedditLodgick]

Well this would change everything! A man who would kill his own niece could be capable of any evil! What a horrible man! I’m certainly glad he’s dead.

[u/RedditLodgick → u/the_scarlett_ning]

Praise whoever killed him.

[u/obrazovanshchina → u/RedditLodgick]

And yet “historian casts doubts on Nazi leader’s alibi over gunshot death of Geli Raubal, 23, in 1931.”

“  “Since the body was already indisputably in the flat at that point, the actual time of death must logically have been much earlier – either in the early hours of Sept 18 or even as early as the night before,” he said.

The date and time on the death certificate “completely contradict the official, 95-year-old narrative put forward by the Bavarian judiciary and the NSDAP [the Nazi party]”, Mr Sandner argued.”

[u/RedditLodgick → u/obrazovanshchina]

I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest or why you left out this part:

However, Heike Görtemaker, a pre-eminent Hitler historian, told The Telegraph that she was not persuaded by the new evidence.

And

She believes the most likely explanation for the discrepancy between the police report and the official death certificate is a simple transcription error.

Yes, the one historian making the claim believes it to be true. Hardly shocking. We'll see what the larger academic community thinks, but I'm skeptical they're going to jump with this.

[u/IntrepidWolverine517 → u/obrazovanshchina]

Absolute ragebait. Nothing is "indisputable". Most likely a typo (or reading error) on the document he is referring.

If someone had found Geli at the purported time and revealed this to the authorities (!), the investigation would have started a day earlier. Even if they had let Hitler travel under these circumstances, how in the world could the trip have created an alibi?

[u/SeanAker → u/SaffronRnlds]

Hitler...kill people? No, he would never! 

[u/Gvillegator → u/SaffronRnlds]

It’s a million times more plausible that she killed herself because of her forced imprisonment by Hitler than the idea that Hitler killed his beloved niece that he was sexually and romantically obsessed with.

[u/SaffronRnlds → u/Gvillegator]

The notion of "if I can't have you, no one else can" is a very common thought process for those who are obsessed, especially if they perceive their obsession is about to leave, which she was trying to do.

It's all speculation.

This is why this is a continuing debate, there are heavy points on both sides

[u/Gvillegator → u/SaffronRnlds]

I get all of that and I’m not refuting the possibility. The only piece of evidence I’ve seen supporting the notion that he killed her was this article and the documentation cited in it. Can you point me to anything else? Genuinely asking because everything I’ve seen about Geli’s death is that suicide is the most likely cause.

[u/yesokay1 → u/[deleted]]

Based?

[u/Mr__Pleasant]

Paywall bypass:

https://archive.ph/R2rTq

[u/FourthLvlSpicyMeme → u/Mr__Pleasant]

Mvp move, thank you. :)

[u/LiluLay]

I thought they’ve suspected this for decades?

[u/Indigo472 → u/LiluLay]

They definitely have. The book The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer briefly covers this exact topic towards the beginning.

[u/Halekduo → u/Indigo472]

Shirer is not a historian nor did he write that book with the rigour and professionalism expected of one. Not a quality source on the subject.

[u/AthenaRedites → u/Halekduo]

Yup. Fun read, esp. the illustrated / photo-rich version, but he was a journalist and it shows.

[u/richardelmore → u/Halekduo]

Shirer was primarily a journalist but every bio I have seen considered him a historian as well.

Rise and Fall was criticized by a some academic historians but it is still widely cited as a firsthand account of the rise of Nazism from someone who witnessed it firsthand as a journalist living in Europe from 1932 to 1940.

[u/Halekduo → u/richardelmore]

Shirer's work was universally panned by professional historians early as the 1960s. The book may be a good primary source but its value depends on the reader's skill and expertise to interpret a first-hand account and test it up against the scholarship on the subject. Which is obviously beyond the skills of most of us. Richard Evans and Ian Kershaw are better alternatives.

[u/Master_Shake23 → u/Indigo472]

Try Kershaw for a quality Hitler biography, not popular history like Shirer's book.

[u/diversalarums → u/Master_Shake23]

Kershaw's books are incredible. Meticulously detailed, and he lets the incredible profusion of facts lead to his conclusions rather than making assertions and then trying to prove them.

[u/Gvillegator → u/Indigo472]

Not a good citation for this. Although I love Shirer and his writing, he acknowledged that his history would be incomplete and partial at best because of the lack of corroboration with documentation that inherently comes from historians pouring over millions of boring documents.

[u/elmonoenano → u/LiluLay]

It's been a while since I've read Kershaw and the Ullrich biography has probably been three or four years, but my recollection from both of those books was that there was lots of reasons to suspect Hitler was guilty, but no firm evidence to show he did it and generally, b/c of Kershaw's WTtF theory and Hitler's own indecisiveness, it seems more likely that he let his displeasure with the situation be known and someone in the party settled the issue hoping to ingratiate himself with Hitler.

[u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ → u/LiluLay]

Im guessing thats why the headline references "new evidence."

[u/howdudo → u/[deleted]]

You joke but the people that excuse him invent brand new theology about him to justify him. That he was never a murderer, that he was trying to rescue humanity. This will never compute as fact to those psychopaths

[u/PineBNorth85]

He was the cause regardless of if it was suicide or murder.

[u/SelectCondition → u/[deleted]]

If he was a bad person then whoever killed him must be a good guy then

[u/cinemamama]

This is a fork found in kitchen scenario.

[u/coolcoolcool485]

Wait til you hear some of the other stuff he did

[u/StrawberryRedneck]

You know what, I believe it. Esp since she had someone she very much wanted to be with and it wasn't him

[u/Gvillegator → u/StrawberryRedneck]

Hitler was more likely to have killed that man and continued Geli’s imprisonment than to have killed her. This is broadly accepted by historians.

[u/augustrem]

There’s a close connection between perpetrators of mass violence and a history of domestic abuse and violence against women.

Obv we don’t need more proof Hitler was evil, but in the future, policy wise, taking domestic violence more seriously and creating more nodes for intervention would protect many victims beyond the one that is currently being abused.

[u/Koraxtheghoul]

The Telegraph being the source makes me suspect he did not murder his niece.

[u/Alsanna_of_Loyce → u/Koraxtheghoul]

Even in the article a highly acclaimed historian explains why it is likely not true, and I am inclined to believe her

[u/Slaanesh_69]

Y'know the more I learn about this "Hitler" dude, the more I start to think he was not a very nice guy.

[u/TheKensei]

Imagine they had discovered this before he got elected

[u/MakVolci]

Yeah we've been considering that he did this for awhile now

[u/BruceAENZ]

The more I hear about this Hitler fellow the less I like him.

[u/HangryBeaver]

Soemeone who killed 12 million people might have killed one more? No way.

[u/bunkSauce]

For those that don't know, he was banging his 23 year old half-niece. They had a heated argument and Hitler left. The next day she was found dead in his apartment with a gunshot wound to the head. Her death was (at the time) determined to be a suicide, but a cover up was suspected.

[u/No_Negotiation3142]

Well, he groomed her, locked him in his house and had a sexual relationship with her, and the guy wasn't exactly squeamish about killing people.

[u/Gaius_Octavius_]

I thought the old evidence suggested that too. Isn’t that a common belief?

[u/hungryfreakshow]

The one he was in love with right?

[u/sault18]

Say what you will about him, but at least he ended up killing Hitler.

[u/MrRamRam720 → u/[deleted]]

Its the telegraph, probably true for a lot of their readers needing to re-evaluate

[u/PattyKane16]

Nah, not buying it. He had enough people gunning for him at that point in Germany that if anyone could’ve nailed him on a murder they would’ve done so. Munich police would not have covered for him as the historian supposes

[u/Halekduo → u/PattyKane16]

German law men from the beat cops who were the great war veterans all the way up to the judges who were appointed by the old kaiser were eager to let a person off the hook if they were a right-winger because they needed all the help they can get to dismantle the Weimar Republic and return the country to back to its 1914 glory. Hitler was identified as important to this cause early on, so he'd have gotten with it as he did get away with lots of other illegal things before he became Chancellor.

[u/PattyKane16 → u/Halekduo]

Article says Munich police chief had it out for Hitler

[u/Halekduo → u/PattyKane16]

It's difficult to imagine anyone could have put away Hitler for anything in 1931. He had lots of friends in high places and too much muscle in the streets by then to discourage a police chief - the army was the only one who could've done anything against him but they were all for him.

[u/Didact67]

Honestly, suicide still makes more sense. He basically had her imprisoned. What reason would he have to murder her? I think abusers typically don’t resort to murder unless they lose control over the victim. And as Görtemaker says, the evidence could easily just be a clerical error.

[u/uwsdwfismyname]

Had her killed or murdered her himself?

[u/Hold_Sudden]

I remember watching a documentary where this was heavily implied about 15 years ago. But thanks for the article.