One of the things that stops me from being like this is that you never truly know who's cis and who's not. Who's struggling with there gender identity internally and who isn't. Because contrary to popular belief. Trans people dont intrinsically possess the ability to know whos trans and who isnt (no you dont). Im not on estrogen yet so im extremely cis passing. Also it helps to have extremely supportive cis friends just in general.
As a cis person myself
I do understand not being to trusting of cis people, as they could always be transphobic. I think as long as you dont go out of your way to be rude to them, its fine to be cautious.
However, I think we should all judge individuals based on their actions. Using categories to sort people you don't know makes sense and is necessary. But eventually you have to treat an individual as an individual based on their actions.
I say that as an immigrant, who uses a few generalisations to help me navigate the local culture. Let alone trying to figure out if it's safe to disclose me being an immigrant, or me being bi.
She’s not gonna let you bottom.. you don’t have to sit here self loathing, using your gut as a phone stand, detoxing from your trans porn addiction for 2 seconds.
Tbh there's a huge difference between having a hard time trusting members of a class that holds power over you VS. genuinely acting mean towards people who match that descriptor.
You don't owe people instantly being friends. If you want to wait until they prove they're safe to trust them or open up to them, that's entirely fair, and there's nothing unkind about it.
I live with PTSD so I do that with pretty much everyone I meet aha
No one owes anyone their thoughts, feelings or trust at the gate. Those are earned. But kindness and compassion aren't things we only give to those who've earned it. It's what we give to things for existing in this world alongside us. Anything more is developed through bonds forged over time.
Yeah i try to give benefit of the doubt as much as humanly possible , I try my absolute hardest but It just won't stop and it makes me feel like an asshole
I totally get that. Just don’t let that distrust make you blind to good people in the world. Cause that’s how you give yourself over to hate, generalizing people for just who they are and not who they choose to be.
It uh, should be controversial? To be suspicious and apprehensive to new people is normal, and for that stage of apprehensiveness to be sidestepped with a shared trait (like being trans) is normal, however taking people as a label and nothing else is inherently harmful. Its essentially the same as saying that you don't trust trans people, or Asian people, or any other group. To make any group a monolith should be avoided, at least I'd say.
Exercising reasonable caution in a society that has it out for you != being pointedly mean to people who don’t deserve it. I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong
I've been there it's hard trust is hard I have trust issues to begin with and this certainly has not helped those and it's easy to dump everyone into one bucket because you've never seen anything but the bad but when has anything about our existence been easy it takes work and effort but cis people are people they can be good or bad try your best and it'll work out eventually <3
The comments are divided starkly between trans people going "yeah that's understandable why you would be that way" and cis people being like "this is just like racism."
Of course when a minority feels rightfully unsafe and has trauma, of course the privileged fucks feel the need do say "you're wrong, you're just as bad as the bigots, ignoring logic"
"rightfully unsafe"? So it's also OK for a white person to be prejudiced against black people if they have had bad experiences with them? If not, then you are just a hypocritical bigot.
It's ok for black people to feel unsafe. You checked the news? Heard of the boy that "drowned"? Hear about any other recent killings, or you think that's just a thing of the past? You go online, you see the racism in comment sections, spreading amongst the youth even? Do you see how the police behave? Do you actually take a minute to have sympathy and not think that the oppressed fearing and being weary around the oppressor based on real facts and news is the same as a bigoted fuck who hates based on fake facts and right wing propaganda?
If you are prejudiced and air that prejudice out, don't be surprised to hear being individually called out for it. Yes, the groups with more power tend to be prejudiced much more often, and should be called out more as groups and as individuals that display it. But when you interact with an individual and you assign their groups faults to them by default, you, individually, are being no better than what you assigned to them.
Thats valid. As an example: Even though I know I won’t do anything bad, women I walk by at night won’t know my intentions, regardless if I had bad intentions or not. So I really can’t blame them for being safe.
I get it trust is very hard to get and it's very hard to rewrite your brain. This is also how some of my friends felt about me before I entrenched myself in the friend group like a worm
You all see the state of the country, the world. The government is actively finding ways to slowly fuck you over, censorship, depending where exactly you live there's the chances the average neeighborino will accept you or at least is indifferent but also won't care or is actively against your existince straight up. And some people will have the audacity, to think you should just take it like good girls and boys, that your rightful fear and trauma and real statistics are the same as the bigotry and ignorance of the privileged. I've already seen a couple in this comment section. Like the ultra privilege pigs have the right to be surprised when they're ultimate met with the same hatred and disrespect they bash onto you. It's ok to feel anger. To feel hate, backed by REAL information, not altered statistics by the FBI, but actual news that barley gets covered by the mainstream unless to mock you.
I know I feel anger, hate, rage, for the injustice. For behalf of innocent trans lives ,for my friends. And this doesn't even just apply to trans folks mind you
It’s only controversial on cis-centric subs like this one is now. Go to any trans exclusive space and this is an opinion that makes sense even solely based on the numbers, most cis people don’t support us at all
Makes sense for a minority to have a distrust of their oppressor, anyone who's saying shit like "replace cis with [a minority] and people would feel different about this" are fucking idiots who should not be taken seriously about these kind of things.
No, it's incredibly understandable. Cis people will never understand the struggles of trans people, and that often leads to mistreatment. There's only so many times you can be mistreated by cis people before you start feeling wary around them. There are not a lot of cis people who don't hold a lot of transphobic biases, and there are basically 0 who hold none.
Yeah but I wanted to share my thoughts, Im not saying every cis person is like that
Im just always on high alert to anyone who's cis, Because I feel they are just keeping their inner transphobic thoughts to themselves cuz im there and the second i leave they will talk bad about me
I know thats not good and it isnt fair but its very hard NOT to do it when everyone in your life who's cis
Also now that you explained your reasoning I can kinda understand why you feel that way. (I won’t be able to fully understand but even so, I can kinda see where you’re coming from)
She is trying not to have biases and that is not rude whatsoever. She is showing a willingness to change but needs us cis people to be understanding and give her leeway and here yall are being assholes to her
Two things. One I commented this around when post was first posted so I didn’t understand the full scope. And two I commented saying that after I heard her reasoning I understand why she felt that way.
It's rude to be cautious? To pay attention to the news, of ancyedotes of other fellow trans folks based on real policies and actions and talking points becoming common? It's rude to see how dark the world is, and be rightfully weary, and never knowing how safe it is out there?
Yeah, calm down there chief, we're not talking about being good or evil here, it's just not a good to be prejudiced like this against a big group of people. Shit's bad for you and something you ought to see a therapist about.
Is it ok to discriminate against trans people? what about trans men? is it OK to discriminate them because they're men?
People are not just one thing, is it OK to discriminate against the neurodivergent if they're white? what about women? Its ok to distrust women if they're white?
Or for example Obama, Obama was president, meaning that he was socially above you, is it OK to call him slurs at the moment he was president just because he was president? I mean he isn't president now, but he's still a social class above you isn't he? Do we determine someone's traits as a social class by the bottom? the top? average? in which country? time? etc.
and who determines who's above? do you see Asians below or above you? Black People? do you determine your own criteria? do you act based on your own subjective criteria? Do you expect others to act the same? there are MAGA people that unironically think that Latinos are above them because the government helps them (not true lol, but people think that), are they right in acting on their own criteria?
Furthermore, do you think everyone in a social class acts the same? is it OK to assume someone's actions by their traits and identities? Is it OK to assume that all transfems are puppygirls that want to be looked down upon, because someone might have this sub as their only viewpoint of trans people?
In my opinion, the amount of variables asked above just demonstrates that pre judging someone based on physical traits is effectively worthless, and while you SHOULD stay safe, you should also not discriminate or distrust people just for what they look like, nor you should TRUST people just because they're from your ingroup without knowing them personally. I understand cases like Trauma but even then, it is not something that should be celebrated.
The best thing you can do always, is be wary of other people but give them chances to proceed slowly, regardless of who it is.
I mean, I don't blame black people who are distrustful of white people. It's pretty normal for marginalized groups to be wary of the social class above them
This self loathing white shit is cringe… trust me.. he doesn’t want you, nobody is clapping, you aren’t getting brownie points, there’s no medal for you.
Have you ever had a black male friend?
Or I’m guessing you don’t trust black men cause they are cis? Or do we just not apply our philosophy’s universally?
There is no “social class above you”, socioeconomic status has far far far more to do with quality of life and how you’re treated than any identity In most arenas.
Sure, if you are a woman with a dick, you might be treated differently at a bar, if you are like my boyfriend, even if you are hot as fuck—if you wear skirts, paint your nails, have flawless skincare and wear makeup, are black, basically pass as a girl, have a 25’ waist and 37’ ass/hips—you will be treated differently when you are dating.
Being cynical about everything helps nobody, being hypervigilant becuase someone is white is racist.
Just because per capita a black person is TECHNICALLY more likely to commit a crime if we just look at people like statistics, doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to see all black people with suspicion.
If you follow your direct paternal Y chromosome line(not just family tree), only 1% of Americans have had a direct grandfather who owned slaves.
Or someone like me, most of my family didn’t come here until the late 1800s, we moved to the Midwest, even then they fought for the north.
It’s just silly to generalize, don’t live your life like that, that way of thinking is what causes the division.
Personally, I'm not really chill with racism, but you do you, I guess. OP has some issues for a therapist and we shouldn't pretend like it's normal or fine to distrust all cis people.
"yeah bro, a minority member being rightfully weary of a privileged member of society for obvious reasons is exactly the same as plain old bigotry! I have no understanding of how power dynamics works!"
"Punching up'' doesn't work when you have the same rights as the one's your bigoted against. This is so fucking insane to me, you aren't anti bigotry, you're just bigoted to different people.
And the trait that helped us survive by telling us to avoid the big striped cat bites us in the ass once again in modern society.
It's hard to go against that instinct once you are hurt by a specific group of people, you generally need to go against it consciously, this applies to anything really.
There's no silver bullet for this type of situation, you just need to decide who to trust and who not to, and if you pay attention to yourself and others, you'll naturally get better at choosing.
I think it depends on how you are handling it. Like if youre outwardly hostile to ppl for no reason that would be bad but if its just being more careful and apprehensive at first its probably ok. Just dont let yourself get so paranoid that youre living in a lot of fear, be safe but dont murder your own mental health with it
You’re not a bad person because you struggle to trust people. As long as you don’t hurt anyone for this irrational distrust.
Also trust doesn’t need to be a binary. You can trust people with certain things and also not trust people with other things. And if you want to find out who you can trust/distrust, a good way is letting people in on the small stuff first and see if they can be trusted with that.
So here’s the thing. There’s a saying that goes “it’s not your first thought, but your second that counts”. Trans people have every reason to be wary around cis people, simply because absent any indication that they’re cool, they might very well not be cool, and at the moment that kind of thing can (theoretically, in a worst case scenario,) be fatal.
You can be inherently and instinctively distrustful of cis people as a first thought, and then have your second thought be “Whoa, no. I can’t let myself believe that every single cis person is a threat, that’s simply not based on reality.”
Trust is a choice you make. You can choose to trust people while still making sure that you’re safe. Even when they breach that trust, you can choose to trust again if you want to.
I mean, you may not be able to control your prejudice in your mind. But as long as you can act rationally and realize that those thoughts are not rational, and treat others normally, I would say that's the opposite of a problem. It shows you are trying to change those thoughts.
I have this issue with middle eastern men, I was raped by one. Now whenever I see them I get a fear/distrust response, but then I recognize that those are racist thoughts which are not good. So I rationalize myself out of them and treat them as I would anyone else.
I feel like this is never discussed. We cant always control our emotions or thoughts. But we can control our actions and teach ourselves to be better.
Do you think this about queer or bisexual cis people? What about cis people who are actively fighting for your rights, show up to pride in support, or otherwise prove themselves to be allies? Probably not, right? But by making generalizations you are harming those people while not at all affecting the people who are actually, as you put it in another comment, witholding their transphobia until you leave the room.
You acknowledge in some comments that you know it's not good, that's a good first step. I think maybe examining why you have these feelings and thinking about the people around you that make you think this is probably a good idea.
I'm also not saying you owe them anything, to be clear. You don't owe people friendship or whatever instantl, everyone should earn that. I just don't think instantly distrusting an entire group of people based on a generalization is a good idea and will stop you from being able to meet people who genuinely are in your corner.
Go ahead and act like what I said has no bearing, generalizing a group of people into a monolith is harmful regardless of who the target of your hatred is
Tries her best to be non-judgmental but just can’t remove her distrust of black people. Do you have the same reaction to that sentence as you do to the one in the oc
Vast majority of the population is some flavor of cis, to immediately distrust everyone based on something outside their control should be controversial
I mean there are a lot of people that can't be trusted, everyone can be an arse.
You would not trust a racist if you are of color.
You would not trust a rightwinger if you have a leftist mind. But there are exceptions to this (just remember the KKK leader that became friend with a african american journalist)
I for myself try to be as friendly around people as i can, still slip up sometimes, was even told last week by someone its transphobic by me to call myself just "a normal stupid cis guy" when they asked who i am in the discord community i joined.
58
u/DevilsMaleficLilith 3h ago edited 3h ago
One of the things that stops me from being like this is that you never truly know who's cis and who's not. Who's struggling with there gender identity internally and who isn't. Because contrary to popular belief. Trans people dont intrinsically possess the ability to know whos trans and who isnt (no you dont). Im not on estrogen yet so im extremely cis passing. Also it helps to have extremely supportive cis friends just in general.