racism in queer spaces is a real thing and anyone immediately assuming this is some kind of fed post and not a real legitimate complaint needs to think about why they're so quick to dismiss this tbh
Thankfully they're no longer down voted but yeah a lot of online queer spaces are so white. So many white queer people think they understand racism because they understand anti-queer bigotry and therefore they think they don't have any racist tendencies, but often they do.
Had a white queer person explain to me that she absolutely wasn't being racist, because she used logic and determined that there was nothing racist about what she'd said.
It's easy to think that "most people aren't racist" if the image in your mind of a racist is cartoonishly evil. The same applies to homophobia, sexism, transphobia, etc. The thing is that people who are otherwise "good" on the basics (i.e. they don't consider themselves white supremacist and if asked would say that they believe that black people are equal to white people, etc) can, and often do, still have racial biases. We live in a white supremacist society, no one is escaping unscathed. Those things that don't appear cartoonishly obvious still mean someone has racist biases or is outright racist.
So, in Australia a couple of years ago 60% of our nation voted against our First Nations people having a voice in parliament.
No reason. The indigenous representatives wouldn't have had a vote necessarily. They just would have had an opportunity to voice their concerns or approval about any policies or legislation which may have been presented to parliament.
60% of Australians were too racist to let that happen and since trans people are just people I just kind of assume that around 60% of trans people in Australia are racist too.
How so? I've literally had Australian trans people complain to me that they hate that trans rights are a left-wing issue because they disagree with all other left-wing points.
Admittedly, those people were fucking idiots and it's probably not a 1:1 equal distribution of racism between trans and cis people but you've got people of colour talking about how regularly they encounter racism within our community and I tend to believe them.
first paragraph is anecdotal evidence cause that’s affected by the area you encountered those ppl in, u can’t extrapolate it to the entirety of Australia.
I do agree with the second paragraph though, I didn’t mean to say it’s not a serve problem or a specific problem with trans people. Moreover I just think the support for your argument was kind of circumstantial cause politics within groups change things a lot. (The winner of the presidential race in 2024 was Trump, but that doesn’t mean he had support from black women, who voted over 80% for Harris)
I mean, my personal experience as a white trans person who gets to hear the shit people think they can say when PoC aren't around aligns with the experience of trans PoC who are subjected to that kind of abuse and that aligns with racist policies which are instituted where I live.
It doesn't seem a massive stretch to recognise a pattern there.
As I said, it's probably not 1:1 and I'm probably being a bit pessimistic about rates of racism within our community but there's a rather disappointing amount of evidence that it exists.
very true, it does suck how much racism happens when people are in a “safe space” as if they don’t have an obligation to make safe for everyone else 😭
i do wonder if there’s any statistical research on the phenomenon in relation to your third paragraph, I’d be interested to know the exact number. although it’s definitely not necessary to address how big of a problem it is cause all you have to do to see it is go to a white queer space.
me to the white trans woman when she asks where the racism in the queer community is coming from
(this not to say all white trans women are racist or as a group are the source of the problem, I’ve just met some people who are very much in the precontemplation stage of addressing their ethnocentrism problem)
I have literally never found a post by a racist transfem except from 4tran, or 4tranners, I'd like to see a post proving that it's not just the people on 4tran leaking into trans subs.
No you are not going to fucking do this. I'm not gonna fuck around with a 4tran space to begin with cause im mexican I know better than to do that, but you dont get to push all responsibility and absolve all trans folks of racism like this.
Yeah. It's easy to let your main concern eclipse lived reality that isn't yours if you are not inclined toward introspection and/or empathy. I know that sometimes class reductionism can act as a siren song to me. But despite class struggle being an important issue, not everything boils down only to class.
What is this, babies' first intersectionality class?
It's not the oppression Olympics, because there's no placing points of oppression on a graph in this nitty-gritty area. Sure, you can say that being black is a disadvantage in our society, and you can say that being trans is a disadvantage in our society, you might even be able to say which is more of a disadvantage in isolation, but you can't say which is the worse of any number of combinations of empowered/oppressed demographics with very few exceptions (e.g. I'm bi, but I'm in a perceptively het relationship, I'm white, and I'm a guy, I'm able bodied and despite coming from the mucky bottom I have a good job and a mortgage. I'm not even in the stands at these Olympics)
I swear that intersectionality was created by the people in charge to keep leftists endlessly debating race theory rather than actually doing something about the psycho billionaire owner class.
Possibly, but wealth/class is also a metric in intersectional theory, it's pretty much the only one that historically affected me, with its orbital characteristics (such as accent and outward values associated with being from the capital-challenged) being major hurdles for getting into a decent job or university.
If there's one thing that leftists should agree on (rare as rocking-horse manure, that) it's that economic privilege (or lack thereof) is the great unifier. Tankies will ignore the needs of trans folks or women or ethnic minorities due to a fanatical focus on economic inequality, and that's a problem, but they have a point. It's just unfortunate that things like overthrowing the ruling class to make way for a more sustainable and equitable society have to be pushed aside for more pressing issues such as trans healthcare and breaking down systems of racism within political structures like the police. Great long term goal, not practical to those alive today.
I wonder if the discourse around "privilege" has done more harm than good for oppressed demographics. It seems to always devolve into infighting over oppression olympics.
I feel like a lot of things get really stupid when they escape academia. The distinction between systemic racism and personal prejudice is really important as an example, but a lot of conversation around it devolve into incredibly stupid arguments immediately.
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u/NinjaJim6969still mad that stupid asshole rabbit cracked my egg3h agoedited 1h ago
Boy I sure do love how many infighting posts show up around totally innocuous unrelated events like elections
E: i must just be too off twitter to have encountered anyone like who op is complaining about
Love how nonwhite folks just have to sit pretty and never complain about our treatment or perception or else we're federal agents to you. Only valid brown folks here to you are doormats.
I think it's just bad form to use that, personally. Like it aint mine to throw around, mexican, and a lotta people latch onto the wrong thing about it or think theyre in the good nonracist category of people already so it cant be about them and they have nothing to learn from it. I'd just rather say directly what I mean.
Yeah, mostly in that strangers see no reason to say this shit to me and I talk to like 5 people total, none of whom say the kind of ridiculous shit it sounds like you have to put up with
Literally never spoken with a real human being who thought that being queer meant we didn't benefit from white privilege
It isn't infighting to say "white queer people have white privilege." Being trans does not make you less white than a cishet white person, you still benefit from white supremacy at the expense of poc if you are white.
Whoever is using the term “passing privilege” (edit: like this) in the first place is already probably a horrible person to be around, even without the blatant racism.
I mean passing privilege obviously exists. I look visibly queer, and not even like a whole lot compared to other folks mid transition. When i get groceries there's a better chance than not im going to be accosted for that, get stares because of it, and I gotta avoid smaller roads with less eyes on em especially at night or risk who fucking knows what.
Someone who just looks cis isnt going to get that for looking cis. They might get some of that for other reasons obviously, but not because they look cis. Is that not privilege? If it isnt how is it not?
I should clarify, I don’t think it’s bad to use that term in any context (I worded my comment very badly, sorry), obviously if you pass you’d have a way easier time in society than if you didn’t, but in the context of using it against people like in OP’s example, it’s pretty horrible and feels like something a miserable 4tran user would say to put other trans people down.
What's wrong with the term passing privilege? I have a ton of privilege, and passing is absolutely a major type of privilege I have that other trans people often do not.
Passing privilege is like… very real? I am quite noticeably treated differently on days when I’m strongly passing vs on days when I am pretty clockable. Passing privilege and pretty privelage are genuinely both incredibly impactful on your lived experience.
Queer people being racist and poc being whatever-obic is so stupid. Weve got alot of the same issues, and would do alot better to take care of each other.
No war but the class war doesn't mean we can ignore racism or other social ills. The only way the working class can unite is if we confront those issues. I'm not saying any of us are the Vanguard, but if the Vanguard Party is meant to be "practically the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class" then the LEAST we can do is call out racism in our ranks.
I always have an interesting time with posts like these because I'm openly queer and cis but I'm also Mexican so I somehow fall under neither of the sides this post is pitting against eachother.
We’re reaching levels of infighting I didn’t think possible
Edit: Leaving the comments up as a bad example. I don’t even remember what I was trying to say, all I can see is what y’all are reading now. Yikes. I’m an asshole.
Friend, my whole point is it shouldn’t matter what damn race we all are, why the hell we fightin’? It just sounds like everybody’s finding excuses to get mad at each other, and for what? Is it helping?
Edit: Look, I’ll be the first to admit that I’m an outsider here, so maybe I don’t know what the hell is going on for y’all and I’m being a stupid motherfucker. If that’s the case, then any enmity I’ve earned is well deserved. I’m sorry for any hurt I caused, unintended or not.
You're able to comment things like this and yet the moderators on this subreddit told me that they were going to learn how to crack down on more implicit forms of racism.
Huh? White people being racist in queer spaces and going "you calling out my racism is actually [whatever flavor of homophobia/transphobia applies to them]!!!!" is a huge and very real problem.
Alright, so long as you know what you're getting out of it, I suppose. You've limited time, you choose how you spend it. You get something out of it that I don't see. I hope it satisfies you. Have a good night.
How do you cut them off if you immediately write off any mention of racism as "psyop to be ignored" and never give anyone room to talk about racism in your community. Y'know what, you're sorta right, cuz I shouldn't even be giving you this much benefit for discussion, I should just tell you you're being racist.
That's like saying DEI is "some cia infighting bullshit" because how many non-white people do you see posting selfies in this sub? Sorry, bringing that shit up ain't psyop.
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