r/buffy • u/Fun_Neighborhood8178 • 10h ago
Xander Xander is a great character, and he’s so overhated by obnoxious people who all decided to share one opinion for some reason!
Seriously what is up with the Xander hate. Everyone I know who’s seen the show have always told me he sucks cause he’s a stand-in for Whedon, but now rewatching the show after such a long time, he’s really not that bad at all. He’s funny and works both as an audience surrogate and as a protagonist in his own right. The big emotional moments always work like his speech to Dawn or his speech to Willow, has some really good lines and great Xander centric episodes as well, like the one where everybody falls in love with him or the one with the bomb.
It’s like someone decided long ago that he’s a bad character and that has become the law now. I disagree
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u/Which-Notice5868 9h ago
I don't hate Xander by any means, but his bad moments are pretty bad, and the combination of those moments being much more realistic than "I'm going to destroy the world, mwahaha" and the show positioning him as a good guy/Buffy's friend, makes them come off worse. He also tends to get let off by the narrative very easily without having to face any real accountability for his actions. Even OMWF which almost got Dawn kidnapped to a hell dimension and caused multiple deaths is brushed off as a joke.
Why the fuck is Buffy asking *him* if they're okay in "Revelations"? He just tried to do a murder by proxy and didn't even apologize for it.
I generally think Xander's best seasons by far are 4, 5, and 7. 6 has the wedding shaggy dog story and Entropy. And 1-3 has the recurring nastiness that comes up when he feels threatened or upset. Not that he has no good moments in the early years, but 4 and 5 he's trying to find himself, he's generally being a good supportive friend and an okay boyfriend and 7 he just mostly has his shit together.
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u/Fen_ 6h ago edited 5h ago
the show positioning him as a good guy/Buffy's friend, makes them come off worse. He also tends to get let off by the narrative very easily without having to face any real accountability for his actions
This is the crux. It's fine (and interesting!) to have flawed protags. What people are really critical of with Xander is that the show largely isn't critical of him (and, especially early on, often plays his problematic behaviors off as cute or amusing).
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u/YozoraBellossomHeart 5h ago
It's always a bit unfortunate that S7 is genuinely one of Xander's best, because it's the season that devotes the least amount of time to him across the series. He's just a good guy who fixes the window and cracks some jokes in the background. No real arc or challenges. He's just vibing.
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u/Nina_kupenda 9h ago
I do not like Xander because of his problematic behavior and the lack of accountability. But I can rewatch the show and appreciate his scenes and what he brings to it. Some of my favorite jokes are his’. He can be incredibly empathetic and observant too.
That being said, as important it is to be able to acknowledge his qualities and what he brings to the show, his flaws and his problematic attitude towards women are also big issue and we should be able to say it without being called obnoxious :)
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u/Main-Inflation-5269 9h ago
I watched the show when it originally aired, and I don't remember this hatred for him back then.
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u/millahnna 9h ago
Some of his traits that are more problematic were called out a bit in the message boards I hung out on at the time. But we got shouted down a lot for it because the culture around some of that behavior hadn't started shifting yet.
That said, I don't remember a lot of flat out hatred of the character at large, at least not until the last couple of seasons maybe. It was always directed at specific behaviors. It was always "I love Xnader but hate the way he was about his crush on Buffy" type of stuff.
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u/crimpgirl1234 9h ago
As someone who also watched the show when it aired I agree with this assessment.
Sadly sometimes I wonder how much has changed given many comments in this thread.
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u/crimpgirl1234 9h ago
We had different expectations of what was acceptable from young men then. That’s changed.
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u/fivebyfive12 9h ago
I don't think that's all it is - Willow is also massively hated on, you see multiple posts a week on here alone about her. I just think a lot of people now seem to need their "goodies" to be perfect and not say or do anything remotely "problematic" but that would make for a very boring show. It also doesn't explain the love for Spike. I've genuinely seen posts on here who watch Seeing Red for the first time and their big takeaway is how bad Xandar behaves?! It's insane.
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u/Disrobingbean 7h ago
I've recently got really in to Slow Horses, and virtually all of the "goodies" are unlikeable, to downright repulsive, and the show is better for it.
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u/catchyerselfon 2h ago
Slow Horses is a fantastic show I eagerly anticipate every year (every calendar year I get a new season? In THIS economy?!). But I’m also glad it’s only 6 episodes a season, though I could appreciate it being stretched out by two or four more. The characters are entertaining and interesting, but as they are I wouldn’t want to spend 22 episodes a year with them in their grimy world of “fuck you, I hate being with any of you, but we have a job to get done”. These aren’t people I have warm fuzzy feelings for and want to hang out with, and that’s ok! It totally works for the genre and the story Slow Horses is telling.
I’m a huge John LeCarré fan and I’m wary about the new George Smiley series coming out where all the Smiley books will be adapted into one per tv season. If there’s too much stretching and padding I’m going to get frustrated because most of the characters aren’t people you’re rooting for, personally or professionally. The 7 episodes we got for each miniseries in 1979’s “Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy” and 1983’s “Smiley’s People” were chef’s kiss perfect without wallowing in the unpleasantness.
BTVS has flawed characters (which is why I don’t find them boring and flat) but I like most of these people and I’d want to be their friend and colleague in real life. I’d want to hang out in the library or the Magic Box or the Espresso Pump or the Bronze and shoot the shit. There’s nothing to overcome and no friction for some sparks if everyone is Current Year Values and always knows what to do (as teenagers?!). But they mostly like and want to be around each other! The characters at Slough House or at HQ can barely tolerate each other, which is what makes the show so funny.
But I also want someone to give poor River a hug and let him cry on their shoulder. MAYBE Catherine Standish is the only one who would and could comfort him; everyone else he works with is taking the piss out of him to his face for his beloved grandfather/adoptive father suffering from dementia and then dying, his mother fucking off, and his real father being a murderous cult leader who tries to kill him. Giles may be very English like these characters, but he wouldn’t be that cold and gleefully mocking (unless it was a vampire)!
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u/LetItSnow36 8h ago
It blows my mind how people get more angry about the guy pissed about the attempted rape of his friend than the actual attempted rapist.
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
What are things Xander did that are unacceptable, that other characters in the show don't do, and that is specific to young men?
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u/ButDidYouCry 9h ago edited 8h ago
He hits too close to home in how he behaves negatively towards women. Especially his weird treatment of Buffy, which borders on being a sex pest in the first season. People have written about it numerous times
Hey, someone even made a great video on it.I'm not interested in debating people who refuse to acknowledge the issues of his character.
No Buffy character is perfect but Xander's flaws are almost triggering for some female viewers because the flaws are normalized ones in a male-centric culture (not supernatural or metaphorical) and the narrative largely ignores them or leaves them unpunished.
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u/PassivelyAwkward 8h ago
Exactly. In the 90s, he was just kind of a adorkable loser; which almost every series had. By today's standards, so much of Xander's personality, especially in the high school years seems bad.
The problem I have with Xander is that he's never actually punished. When he uses magic to mindfuck every woman, it's played off as this mostly sweet thing and everyone just moves on. When he cheats on Cordy, they all alienate her while "But..it's Xander. We like Xander". When he leaves Anya, same thing. Meanwhile Willow mindfucks people and Tara leaves her and has to regain the trust of people. Buffy betrays people, and they're pissed at her for episodes.
Xander repeatedly does something shitty and it's just never mentioned again. Dude straight up summoned the musical demon that killed multiple people and he doesn't get an ounce of blowback.
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u/forbidden-donut 6h ago
Same thing happened with Urkel. His pursuit of someone who kept rejecting him was meant to be adorkable in the 90s, but now comes off as harassment.
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u/Worldly-Gear-1107 8h ago
“When he cheats on Cordy, they all alienate her while “But…it’s Xander. We like Xander.””
That is not what happened. Did you forget who he cheated on Cordy *with?*
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u/PassivelyAwkward 7h ago
Oh, so Xander didn't cheat on Cordy and then not punishing Xander while distancing from Cordy? Weird. I seem to remember that happening but you're saying that didn't happen? Which part? The cheating or that they stopped talking to Cordy?
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u/Pedals17 You’re not the brightest god in the heavens, are you? 7h ago
Cordy pulled away from the Scoobies, not the other way around. Buffy reached out to Cordy, but she wasn’t having it.
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u/catchyerselfon 2h ago
Exactly! Willow could tell Cory did NOT want to talk to her, no flowers with an apology note, just leave me alone. Xander respected Cordelia’s wishes that he never speak to her (which she broke later), instead of begging her to forgive him and take him back.
Buffy, as the one who didn’t hurt her, tried to empathize with Cordelia, who had been mostly awful to her, ranging to helpful in a crisis with occasional moments of being nice (like “The Dark Age” when she says “what about me? I care about Giles! [“work with Xander”] Well, when I say ‘care’, I mean…”), Cordelia tells her to leave her alone too. And she blames Buffy for everything!
My rationale for this (besides So the Plot Can Happen) is that Cordy doesn’t want to accept that a supposedly mousy loser like Willow had the charisma and power to steal her loser boyfriend and hurt Cordelia this much. Someone like Buffy, who’s “a freak” but considered a hottie and could’ve been a rival to Cordy’s throne, is a worthier opponent she can blame and not feel too embarrassed about.
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u/Worldly-Gear-1107 7h ago
They be did not stop talking to Cordy. Cordy distanced herself from them and started bullying them again.
And you didn’t answer my question. Whom did Xander cheat on Cordy with? Willow. So who is the “they” that were supposed to distance themselves from Xander? Just Buffy herself? Giles? Oz? I guess that last one would have the most right to do so, but I don’t think that’s who you’re talking about.
Why no expectation that Buffy distance herself from Willow? Since your best friend cheating on their partner in high school is such an extreme offense.
Even if Buffy had intentionally distanced herself from Cordelia rather than Xander, that would be her right. Xander has always been closer to her. He has saved her life. Not saying Cordy never came through for her—she did, both before and after this—but it isn’t the same and it’s weird to act like it is. You’re holding fictional characters to standards you wouldn’t even hold real people to. And you’re not applying those standards equally to each character, nor are you even remembering significant plot elements correctly because you’re super biased against one character specifically.
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u/catchyerselfon 2h ago
In “Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered”, Xander DOES get some consequences. Instead of hiding the issue or trying to fix it on his own, he runs to Giles for help, the responsible thing to do. Giles does what he can, but he gets the most angry we’ve seen Giles since Ethan was in town. He’s appropriately harsh with Xander, giving him a backhanded compliment, “I cannot believe you’d be fool enough to do something like this!” “Oh, I’m twice the fool!” because he trusted Xander around magic. When Buffy is turned into a rat and Giles is terrified something will happen to her, he tells Xander to get out of his sight and that seems to hurt Xander, though he accepts he deserves it.
When the spell is broken Buffy and Xander talk about how Willow is NOT talking to him right now because of how upset and humiliated she is. We don’t see this, yes things are back to normal next week, but it shows Willow is capable of freezing Xander out when he deserves it. Oz also punched Xander, one of the few times he gets physical with anyone, because Willow was crying over him (when she was under the spell). Cordelia takes him back because she realizes how much she hurt him and how she only thought of herself when she dumped him. She did it on Valentine’s Day when he just gave her a necklace at he would have to save up for because she’s rich and he’s working class, a fact she lorded over him before, during, and after their relationship. She only did it because her shallow “sheep” friends made fun of her, because she let these less intelligent and brave girls tell her who she was and what she should do. Yes, she’s excited by Xander doing the love spell “for me”, that isn’t a great message even at the time. But it’s one piece of why she wants to be with him again, not the only reason.
I’ve seen criticism of Xander being more concerned with his own safety than the safety of the girls and women “in love” with him… but he’s the only one in danger. The other women aren’t throwing themselves at other men and liable to be raped, they’re only pursuing Xander, wanting to tear him apart like nymphs consuming Orpheus.
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u/Sighoward 6h ago
Punished for what? All the Scoobs err and get people killed and he does apologise to all
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u/ticketstubs1 7h ago
How can you say he's never punished? Do you think he's doing great by the time we're in season 7?
And maybe people (sometimes) don't mention those things because they aren't as bad as what he other characters do?
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u/Triof 7h ago
When he leaves Anya, same thing.
You mean, when he makes the mature decision not to get married before he's ready? No-one alienates Anya after that, there's a whole episode of her chatting to the rest of the Scoobies and trying to get them to make a Wish to curse Xander.
If you want a real comparison, Willow makes the conscious decision to fuck with Tara's mind and rape her, and Tara is the one forced to leave the house. If I found out one of my friends was deliberately raping their girlfriend, I sure as hell wouldn't just let them keep living in the master bedroom. It's not for another couple of episodes that Willow asks for help, and before then...no-one besides Tara cares, not even a little bit, that she wiped all of their minds.
We don't really know what was involved when Xander summoned Sweets, but he doesn't seem to know he's summoning a demon - he probably does something that he thinks means there will be "Singing and Dancing", and it goes badly. Willow is making a conscious decision to mess with Tara and Buffy's memories (which accidentally goes wrong and wipes them all), which is far worse, and there's no blowback there either.
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u/at_midknight 8h ago edited 7h ago
Yikes you know your position is in dire straits if you are referencing the cosmonaut video. That video on Xander is fucking horrific and absolutely embarrassing. Basically spends 50 minutes lying or omitting information and then 2 minutes of advertising
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u/jackolantern_ 8h ago
The narrative also largely ignores some of the terrible things other characters do - like Willow raping Tara and Faith raping Riley.
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u/ticketstubs1 7h ago
Or Anya spending centuries killing people.
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u/jackolantern_ 7h ago
Yeah also a great point. Xander's worst actions aren't as bad as the worst actions of many people's favourites lol.
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u/Worldly-Gear-1107 9h ago
Nothing he says or does borders on “sex pest” in Season 1.
Xander behaved like a typical teenage boy of the time period. The point of his character was to see him rise above that and support his more powerful female friends. He does that more often than not but people focus in on his more problematic moments, ignoring that the character is *supposed* to be problematic but fundamentally good.
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
Oy vey. Well we have this in common, I have zero interest in debating somebody who thinks this way. It must be absolutely exhausting and miserable to watch a show like Buffy with this kind of mindset. OP is right. People have absolutely lost their minds about this character.
"Unpunished", yeah, Xander is doing just great by the end of the show. Did you even watch it?
You couldn't pay me to watch a video like that.
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u/ButDidYouCry 9h ago
Good thing nobody offered to pay you anything.
Lost their minds? It's media criticism you don't like. People have been critiquing characters since Gilgamesh. It's not that serious.
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u/kissys_grits 9h ago
They have, but literature (or any kind of text: tv shows, movies, songs, etc) isn’t created/written as morality plays. When people argue about how blank should have acted, I have to stop myself from rolling my eyes. (This might be because I had to listen/read lots of shitty analyses by students claiming characters don’t act like Christians, and other BS “arguments”)
Yeah, he’s a perv, and yes, times have changed, but I think his lines are some of the best and comedic. And I highly suspect that he’s very indicative of teenage boys (whether we like it or not). They are some hormone driven creeps. If it was taking place now, I’m sure he would keep his mouth closed more often.
Also, it might be overdone as way to indicate his role as “outcast,” meaning he didn’t have any “access it women” He could easily have fallen into the incel persona, but thankfully, he has more respect (word choice?) than we give him credit for.
Not trying to argue. Just sharing.
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u/AntoniusDryden 8h ago
The mix of faux social justice and Puritanism has been one of the most frustrating aspects of getting older. I'm a big fan of Anne Rice and I was talkinga bout it on the r/vampirechronicles sub a week or so ago, about how I got into her books precisely because of its taboo-breaking nature. That was what attracted me to a lot of things when I was younger. I still enjoy them to this day because they have other artistic merits but I probably wouldn't have read Anne Rice at all as a young adult if it hadn't been for the incest and rape and other fucked up shit.
Now with the new show, people get mad if there's a tiny bit of violence. A tiny bit of violence between vampires. The novel casually mentions Louis and Lestat throwing down several times and it didn't matter.
I don't understand it at all. People want sanitized fiction, even young people.
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
Wait, you think when I said you couldn't pay me to watch that video, you thought I was actually expecting an offer? Have you never seen that expression before? It was my way of saying I have no interest in that video.
Yes, and people can in turn criticize poor media criticism.
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u/ButDidYouCry 9h ago
I know the expression. I just think you are being a drama llama.
You also asked the question in the first place about why people disliked Xander. Asking for an explanation just to throw a tantrum and call people "insane" when they actually give you one is peak bad-faith engagement and part of why fandom spaces are so damn toxic.
Go touch grass.
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u/crimpgirl1234 9h ago
I’m not wasting my time doing work that has been done many times before. You’re clearly not a safe person for women to be around.
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u/ProcedureSea3277 9h ago
I am a woman, late 30s, watched Buffy when it first aired, and don't see the issue with Xander. I am also married to a woman. I doubt I'm an unsafe person for my wife and other women to be around.
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u/BenderBenRodriguez 5h ago
People nowadays have more difficulty understanding that a fictional character with flaws isn’t automatically supposed to be a glamorization of those flaws.
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u/Aunionman 9h ago
I mean, he’s not a Nazis trying to be like Andrew Tate.
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u/carbsandcheese928 9h ago
But Andrew Tate didn't exist back then. If he had, everyone would have been disgusted by him, or pretended to be. Xander was the "nice guy" type that birthed the Amdrew Tates of the world. But at the time he was a pretty common representation of males his age. The character of Dawson was the same and he was supposed to have been the major heartthrob of that show. Just because we didn't clock it then doesn't mean we can't look back at it with different eyes.
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u/Worldly-Gear-1107 6h ago
No, the Nerd trio were the type of guys who birthed the Andrew Tates of the world. Xander COULD have gone down that path, but he didn’t. That’s the point of his character. He has a lot of problematic and sexist ideas that he was raised with. Sometimes that gets the best of him. But usually he rises above it and tries to do right by the women in his life. Sometimes he fails. But he never becomes the abusive misogynist that his father was. And that is in large part due to the influence of the strong, smart, and progressive women he chooses to surround himself with, if for no other reason than that he does not actually connect to other men on the same level he connects with them.
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
I disagree he's the "nice guy" type. He's just a guy. Sometimes he's nice. Sometimes he's not. Sometimes he acts entitled, sometimes he acts mature towards women. Sometimes he sabotages his own happiness, sometimes he acts selfless, sometimes he acts selfish.
He's not a "type", he's Xander.
He didn't "birth the Andrew Tates of the world" and frankly that is an absolutely insane claim to make. How could someone even enjoy the show watching it with that mindset? Baffling.
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u/crimpgirl1234 9h ago
He’s 100% the type of young man who would have followed Andrew Tate if he was around then. Xander felt the world owed him something. That’s why he’s trash.
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u/fivebyfive12 9h ago
This is mental. Do you think Andrew Tate would advise his followers "hey if s girl rejects you, be a bit mean, sulk for a few hours then realise you're being a dick and go to try and sort it out oh and if you realise the girl is in trouble, go risk your life and literally save hers"?? No he obviously would not, would he? It's almost like... One is a fictional character with good moments and bad moments and the other is an actual people trafficking rapist who encourages young men to abuse women.
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u/SeeingPieDog 9h ago
I watched it back then. I was only 10 when it started airing here in the UK, and although I wouldn’t say I hated him, I wasn’t a fan and even then I could tell the way he reacted to girls in the show was an issue. Then again, I didn’t much like Willow after season 3 either.
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u/AlexH_144 9h ago
He didn't have the huge hatred for him when the show originally aired. It was around 10 or so years ago that the hatred sky-rocketed. Right around the same time that the Ross Geller and Ted Mosbey hate started
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u/Nina_kupenda 9h ago
I did too, I distinctly remember his attitude was already discussed and criticized.
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u/Surrea_Wanderer 6h ago
His behavior was largely socially acceptable and pretty standard for a male tv character. Not a defense of him, just that was the context it aired in
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u/Which-Notice5868 9h ago
So did I and Xander was easily the least-liked Scooby in the circles I was in.
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u/Significant-Top-64 9h ago
Neither do I. Most of my friends either liked Angel or Xander.
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u/AntoniusDryden 9h ago
liked Angel or Xander.
How times have changed... (not for the better)
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u/TheNavidsonLP 9h ago
I feel like a lot of the Xander hate is due Joss's behavior and Nicholas Brendon's post-show problems.
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u/LilyLaKoi 8h ago
I always found him quite annoying even when I watched this back then. My consensus was always that he never added anything to the show and that it would be the same or even better without him in it. It wasn't until years later when I unlearned some things that I could put into words why I disliked him, and then finding out about Whedon even more years later was just an "oh that's why Xander sucked so much" moment.
Had no clue his actor was a shitty person until this year after he passed away, honestly.
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u/SilvRS 7h ago
You just didn't encounter it. I also watched it while it aired, I never liked him, and I spoke to plenty of others who didn't like him either.
Social norms have changed, which leads to a lot more people not liking him for the same reasons that he always pissed me off as a teenage girl, but there were certainly plenty of us who thought he was gross.
In fairness though, i think it was also talked about less back then by people who felt that way, because it wasn't acceptable for a teenage girl to say that a boy behaving the ways that Xander did were making her uncomfortable, or that she thought that behaviour was shitty. If you said that back then, everyone would say you were a feminist bitch killjoy who needed to get over it and that's just how boys are. So even when people felt that way, they didn't really talk about it as much.
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u/FaveStore_Citadel 9h ago
He’s nice usually but he’s not my favorite, I find his sense of humor a bit too awkward and clunky and predictable and his writing often neglected in later seasons. The only issue I have with his big emotional moments in later seasons is how often writers use them as a substitute for giving him deep characterization. Like he had nothing major going on in s6 other than leaving Anya at the altar so they gave him the yellow crayon speech, he had nothing major going on in s7 so they give him the speech to Dawn. I think he was well-written for the first four seasons, and then it went downhill after they ran out of things to write about him other than his relationship with Anya. He’s a bit like Spike in terms of being a major character written too much around another character.
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u/OrangeKun15 9h ago
I think my issues with Xander are mostly that in a show that is generally good about giving characters real consequences for his actions, he generally seems exempt.
Like in the love spell episode where Buffy thanks him for not taking advantage of her? I’m sorry but he shouldn’t be thanked or applauded for doing that, that should be understood. And it’s not like anyone really holds that thing against him. There are other examples too.
But I can agree where I don’t think he’s as bad as a lot of the more hyperbolic takes but I also never bought into him as the “heart” of the group and the Whedon stand in thing colors a lot of his actions (rightfully or wrongly) with a lens that’s a bit icky.
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u/at_midknight 8h ago
What are other examples? because this is always the one everyone brings up in a show with 7 seasons. Meaning that in all 7 seasons, they only have 1 example from a bad episode from a bad season of buffy.
On the other hand, I can think of at least one moment per season where Xander gets consequences, called out, or otherwise blasted for his actions/choices.
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u/ticketstubs1 7h ago
I've been agreeing with you on every comment, but wait, what's the "bad" season of Buffy?
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u/writtenonwind 9h ago
He's a fun character and I personally really like him but he tends to be the one telling some of the more dated jokes. The scene in Season 5 where hes bragging about Dawn being into him comes to mind as a moment that comes off as creepy.
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u/CommentMoney9761 9h ago
Especially when he dates her in the comics 👎 barf
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u/writtenonwind 9h ago
Im only on S8 of the comics (and early on too) but Im actively dreading this
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u/FaveStore_Citadel 9h ago
Yeah I think it’s kinda the opposite, like I think most characters have a kind of comic rhythm that’s still somehow fresh, but Xander joked in a way that became way too common in media after the show aired.
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u/writtenonwind 8h ago
Yeah I wish Whedon-esque dialogue wasn't everyone nowadays but I'm not gonna blame Xander for modern screenwriters being unoriginal
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u/YozoraBellossomHeart 9h ago
This same thread happens so often I'm beginning to think there's a bot programmed to make it every 2-4 days. But Hecate help me, I'm still going to engage.
Xander's brave and funny. The Zeppo is the funniest episode in the series and I love when he stands up to Angelus trying to get into the hospital to bother Buffy in season 2. That part of him that's willing to lay his life on the line at a moment's notice is very noble.
The problem with his writing is it absolutely refuses to ever engage earnestly to his misgivings and failures. From the funny way it ignores him summoning a demon and killing people in Once More With Feeling to the more serious way him embarrassing Anya by leaving her at the altar doesn't have any social consequences. Anya turns into a demon, turns back, and they end up in bed with each other in less than a season's time. His speech in Into The Woods is so condescending and unfair to Buffy, but the story acts like he's completely right. The way he throws Spike's assault of Buffy in Dawn's face to get her to shut up in Two to Go (or maybe it's Villains, it's the end of S6) is abhorrent. He lies to Buffy in Becoming and she doesn't find out until it no longer matters and nobody cares. Naturally, because he's a central character, anyone who tries ens up ostracized. He cheats on Cordelia, but her snide comments to him are from outside the friend group. She's out. Ditto for Anya after Hell's Bells. Buffy and Willow surely care that her feelings got hurt, but not enough to check on her or have a tough conversation with Xander about it. He will return this kindness from Buffy by freaking out and insulting her when he learns she slept with Spike. Something Buffy will forgive him for and disregard completely in the following episode.
On the other hand, when Xander's great, you'll know it. The show will make sure to tell you. You never get the chance to just appreciate his character for who he is without a line or two of dialogue to tell us how great he is. That speech to Dawn in Potential ends with her giving him a compliment. When he acts with integrity in Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered, Buffy thanks him for not assaulting her.
I get why people like Xander. I also get why people do not.
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u/theothermoore 7h ago
This is such a great overview with everything wrong with Xander and, most significantly, the writing of Xander's character. The show makes super clear whenever he does something right, and rationalizes or simply forgets his wrongs. His patronizing speech in Into the Woods remains one of the most infuriating moments of the series to me, precisely because the show treats it as him being the correct, wise friend.
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u/librarygirl21 4h ago
Exactly! I especially hate that he frames his knowledge of Buffy and Riley’s relationship troubles as being due to his excellent observation and perception. The audience SAW Riley tell Xander that the relationship wouldn’t work just a few episodes prior, and Xander was shocked. And while Buffy is not blameless or perfect, Xander makes it seem like the relationship failures are entirely hers when in reality Riley had some real difficulties with accepting his lack of superpowers next to Buffy’s power and independence, and was not good at communicating. Her mother was battling cancer and he made it about Buffy not informing him first.
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u/YozoraBellossomHeart 5h ago
Spot on. I think sometimes people come at this with criticism of Xander the character by the way he's written (like you and I) and some people come at this with criticism of Xander like he's a real person to have opinions on how cool or good or funny he is.
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u/Numerous_Team_2998 9h ago
He's rightfully criticized by women who have dealt with attention from a "nice guy" like Xander.
Multiple times he expresses entitlement over women's bodies and feelings.
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u/enthalpy01 9h ago
My best friend in high school grew up with an alcoholic mother. Like as a kid her mother would be passed out and she’d be trying to get her into bed or make sure she was on her side.
Relationship wise Xander reminds me A Lot of her. She always went after guys who weren’t into her and immediately lost interest if they did fall for her. She did, in her actions, hurt people. But I also understood that fundamentally her upbringing screwed up her understanding of loving relationships. We accept the love we think we deserve.
So I always am more sympathetic toward Xander.
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
This is why I'm glad I watched Buffy with absolutely no interaction with any sort of fanbase or internet regarding the show in any way whatsoever.
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u/JordanM85 9h ago
Xander has always been one of my favorite Buffy characters. I'm surprised to see years later people online hate him so much.
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u/Appropriate_Lie8818 9h ago
He never left Buffy and didn’t turn evil, basically had her back always — he literally had to convince angel to go and save her against the master
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
I suspect a lot of it is performative. I wonder if they're actually watching every episode and feeling that way.
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u/FemboyRune 9h ago
As someone who had been told that Xander would be difficult for me to watch, he was.
I detested his behavior early on, how obsessive he was over buffy and the way he treated willow as a result. I honestly hated his character until they finally left high school and we got away from gay panic, garden variety sexism, and r-slurs.
Once his relationship began with Anya, I was much more interested in him, as his character was finally given a chance to grow outside of who he was in school, and while I've only just started season 7, I've come to appreciate him as he steps up and into a more mature role.
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u/catchyerselfon 9h ago edited 3h ago
Xander uses the r-slur ONE TIME. In “Grave” when Xander is protecting Jonathan and Andrew and all they’re doing is complaining, he gets frustrated and refers to them as “social retards”. Oh no, the two jackasses who tormented Buffy and enabled Warren to become a multiple murderer have to get their feelings hurt because Xander mocks them for being virgins ☹️ I don’t like the “virgin” insults or the r-word either, but that’s how people talked back in 2002.
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u/Worldly-Gear-1107 3h ago
Cordy says that slur as much if not more in the first two seasons of Angel.
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u/catchyerselfon 3h ago
This is true, Cordelia says it two or three times in “Angel”. The comment I was replying to was criticizing Xander, when the other characters who say it are Jack O’Toole the Psycho Bully BEFORE he became a zombie referring to Xander, Warren the Psycho Rapist Murderer (referring to the hovercraft in “Moonraker”), and Faith the Psycho Vampire Slayer From Boston who got better by the time she says it in season 7 when she’s self-consciously referring to her relationship with the Mayor. In “Angel” Spike says it as well as Cordelia.
I’m not that broken up over it, even if one of the less grey-area good guys says it (like Cordelia), because sorry, but most people said the r-word up until like a decade or two ago, either referring to things and people they thought were bad, stupid, “lame and gay”, etc, or people with developmental disabilities. And remember the Euphemism Treadmill: “retarded” was the POLITE term for an intellectually disabled child circa the ‘50s, and the only time it was rude was if the kid wasn’t a “moron” or “imbecile”, maybe they were autistic or had a speech impediment or were physically disabled but mentally sharp. Eventually, the word was thrown around so much by bullies and people who considered themselves victims of bullies, and it had such a strong effect on how disabled people were judged, of course disability activists campaigned to drop this terminology in all aspects of life.
Some of it is cultural, like how the word “spaz” still isn’t commonly known as a slur in the US but it and “spastic” are offensive in the UK. Spaz shows up 8 times in BTVS, 5 of those times said by Willow in a self-deprecating way instead of insulting another person.
Same with “cunt”: saying it in Australia or the UK is often another word for “friend” like “mate”, but in the US or Canada (in many ways linguistically and culturally closer to the UK than the US is) we CANNOT say that word, maybe only if we’re literally referring to genitals with a sexual partner, without expecting horror and anger and possibly a slap. Maybe on side of the divide will change to be more like the other?
https://recentpsychhistory.fandom.com/wiki/Euphemism_treadmill
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
I can't imagine how miserable watching this show is to you. I truly don't understand why you subject yourself to this mindset. It sounds genuinely exhausting. I'm glad finally at season 7 you're coming around to the character.
This show was made 25 years ago, so it's more honest about how people behave, warts and all. You are coming at it from a 2020s cultural view ("gay panic" "r-slurs") and it's genuinely unfair to the show, and to yourself, to ruin the show in this way for yourself. I actually think it's sad to watch it this way. Buffy is so wonderful.
Xander's a good guy. He can be entitled, and horny, and selfish at times. But you know, so can Buffy. Because they are teenagers going through a lot. And the show was made in the 1990s and this is often how teenagers acted. You'd apparently be shocked at the things me and my friends said quite casually and jokingly as teens in the 1990s.
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u/FioMelior 7h ago
Lmao what a post title. Xander has some redeemable qualities, but plenty of shitty ones too. Mostly it's the raging sense of entitlement and lack of accountability.
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u/Specific_Sentence261 9h ago
Xander also pulled Buffy back to reality to remind her who she was when she started college and felt lost. One of the few first pump moments of the series for me.
Xander as a character ran afoul of very specific ideologies regarding how men should act. I’m not making excuses for his bad behavior, but there are certain people that will give Cordelia a pass for being a “bad bitch” but be pissed at Xander forever because he’s horny.
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u/therrubabayaga 9h ago
Buffy got through her hard start in college by hitting some vampires, which is how she remembered it will be alright and not everything is so different or out of place.
And Cordelia had a pretty hard downfall in season 3 after being cheated on and losing all her money, her home and family, plus everything that happened on Angel, so we're more likely to show her sympathy, yes.
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u/Worldly-Gear-1107 8h ago
So you’re more likely to show sympathy to a rich bully who became poor than someone who was poor and had an abusive family his entire life?
And Buffy went and hit those vampires in that episode after Xander motivated her to do so.
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u/Specific_Sentence261 9h ago
I’ve listened to people who hate Xander absolutely glaze season 1/2 Cordelia who treats the people around her very badly. I LOVE CORDELIA and I love her character arc, but let’s not forget she was once a horrible person.
My description of what had her down was broad. She was lost at college AND lost at being a Slayer because of it, the episode was a meta commentary on how people can be lost when they have to find a new identity in a new place. She got her ass kicked by Sunday which should have never happened. Xander gave her the exact pep talk she needed to remember that Buffy had everything she needed and her identity as the fearless and bold Slayer made her not only powerful, but a hero.
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u/Ghanima81 9h ago
I have some grievances about him, but I don't hate him. He is flawed, can annoy me (his Riley's speech in Into the Woods really makes me mad), but overall, he is ok. I particularly enjoy his episodes (the Pack, Bewitched etc, the Zeppo, all very good). But I can dsy I like him better as an adult than as a teen. I feel for him, and understand the different struggles he went through since childhood and teenhood a bit better as an adult.
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u/caldude1985 9h ago edited 9h ago
Xander lied in B2. He never owned up to The Lie for years except as some ridiculous throw away comment 5 years later in s7
Xander, despite being a liar, was certainly self righteous about Buffy running away and for covering up Angel's return
Xander kiss-cheated on Cordelia S3
Xander ditched Anya at the altar S6
Xander was a vocal member of the kick Buffy out of her own house in S7
ETA: I watched the show as it first aired and I was annoyed w Xander at the time for the reasons stated above
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u/catchyerselfon 1h ago
> Xander lied in B2. He never owned up to The Lie for years except as some ridiculous throw away comment 5 years later in s7
> Xander, despite being a liar, was certainly self righteous about Buffy running away and for covering up Angel's return
Because the Lie didn’t affect the outcome. Minions got in Buffy’s way before she could stop Angelus from opening the portal, and once that happened he had to die, regardless of soul-location. Buffy was finally ready to kill Angelus and Xander didn’t want to stop her momentum by distracting her with delays in case the spell worked in time, according to Joss. There were no guarantees Willow, freshly conscious from head injury-induced coma and successful witch in ONE major spell (the exorcism of the school) could pull this off. It’s more of a lie of omission, because Willow “telling” Buffy “kick his ass” isn’t the same thing as “kill him”. When Angel got his soul back, Buffy must’ve figured out Willow did the spell even though Buffy herself told Willow not to push herself. If Buffy was that upset about Willow not being supportive enough - Willow who was nothing BUT supportive before and after Angel lost his soul and after he came back from Hell - then she had five years to bring it up.
Xander’s self-righteousness about Buffy running away and hiding Angel later I find justified, even if I hate that he and the others threw a hootenanny at Buffy’s house. Buffy had three months to contact SOMEONE to say she was still alive after leaving a note for Joyce, but she let everyone think she could be dead or kidnapped or never coming back. When she returned she didn’t answer Xander’s question about where she went, she didn’t thank them for patrolling for her and risking their lives when they don’t have powers, she didn’t apologize for worrying them until the final scene with Willow, she didn’t ask after their injuries and trauma from what they went through.
She was distraught and scared and felt like her mother would never accept her, but she had Willow and Giles to run to for comfort and safety. Willow’s parents are so oblivious Buffy could’ve had a three month “sleepover” and they wouldn’t care. Giles, along with everyone else in the library, would’ve sworn that Buffy had nothing to do with Kendra’s death, the attack, his kidnapping, and accused Drusilla and her “drug gang”. Buffy had options instead of her self-imposed martyrdom in a motel on Skid Row, and chose not to take those options so she could punish herself more, which punished everyone else when she acted like she couldn’t trust them.
She does the same thing when she hides Angel, acting like she can’t depend on Giles to be what Willow calls “The Emotional Marathon Man” and NOT stake a Soulled Angel. Xander walked in on Buffy and Angel making out and holding the Glove, and Buffy has the gall to accuse him of “spying” and being “jealous” instead of doing his duty and being a scared teenager when he sees their greatest enemy kissing the girl who had something to do with this guy becoming a monster.
The first time absolutely wasn’t her fault and Xander never blamed her for it. But if she’s playing with fire here it looks like she doesn’t care about it happening again so long as she gets her boyfriend back. We the audience know it’s more complicated than that, but Buffy doesn’t do a good job explaining what she was doing and why, when she says “But he’s good again” and “I just wanted to wait”! It has a parallel with “Dead Man’s Party” when she “explains” “you wouldn’t understand”, “I had to deal with this on my own”, and “there was nothing anyone could do”.
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u/caldude1985 7m ago
So if one lies but the lie "doesn't affect anything" it's not a lie? OK...
Here are some key problems with the lie, even setting aside the immorality and cowardice of telling a lie and never owning up to it.
- Military necessity. Xander decided that Buffy would fight better if the battle was only w Angelus and now hope of Angel appearing.
-- the flaw: That decision isn't Xander's to make. Buffy is the general Xander was sent on a mission by Willow and Giles to tell Xander the spell was being attempted. Xander subverts the role of Buffy, Willow and Giles.
Both Willow and Giles were in favor of attempting the spell. Xander subverts Giles as a watcher
Xander jeopardized Buffy's friendship with Willow. Buffy left for the mansion thinking Angel might be restored. Instead, Buffy believes Willow wants Buffy to kill the vampire whether he is Angel or Angelus
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u/catchyerselfon 1h ago
> Xander ditched Anya at the altar S6
Because one of HER victims punishes her by psychologically tormenting Xander. He’s just 21 and had a vision of his “future” where he turns into his abusive father and KILLS Anya. Xander wasn’t ready for marriage and shouldn’t have gotten this far. And he shouldn’t have left Anya and the others to tell the guests what was happening. But he was right not to enter a contract that’s supposed to be “till death do us part” when he wasn’t mature enough and certain enough.
> Xander was a vocal member of the kick Buffy out of her own house in S7
Lie regarding “Empty Places”, besides the fact that Buffy kicks herself out when she threatens to leave when they won’t agree to a suicide mission for no reason when they’re low on fighters, this is the entirety of what Xander says in this scene, after Buffy ruins his welcome home part after one minute with the “good news”:
BUFFY: I've gotten us this far.
XANDER: But not without a price.
BUFFY: Xander?
XANDER: I'm trying to see your point here, Buff... but I guess it must be a little bit to my left... 'cause I just don't.
BUFFY: Look, I'm willing to talk strategy, OK, I'll hear suggestions on how to break this down, but this is the plan. We have to be together on this or we will fail again!
Yeah, why does the guy who just lost an eye when he told everyone to trust Buffy’s judgement when everyone else thought it was a trap dare to speak up here? [/s]
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u/davect01 9h ago
I get that he can be polarizing but all the main characters do some pretty rotten things
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u/AntoniusDryden 9h ago
It's the Riley thing. Riley cheating on Buffy is a more unforgivable sin to a lot of viewers than...ya know, EVERYTHING with Spike. Because Riley and Xander aren't bad boys, their whole thing is to be normal boys.
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u/davect01 8h ago
I'm in S5 in another rewatch and it is more and more bugging me as to why Spike is still alive.
He had proven over and over again that he is still evil. I remarked that when Spike stole the Doctor that was needed to save Riley's life, Buffy would have been fully justified in staking him, but nope.
Now I get it. Spike IS a fun character. He and Buffy and captivatingly sexy together in S6. But he's a troubling character and their whole relationship is toxic, leading to that infamous bathroom assault.
As to the topic at hand, Xander does some bone headed things and can be very frustrating but he's far from the most "bad" character.
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u/digitalgraffiti-ca Bored now 9h ago
The modern black and white thinking is incredibly stupid. I mean, yes there are characters that are objectively evil or good, but most characters are shades of grey, because moral absolutes are boring as fuck. But now everyone thinks a little save BLACK and condemns them. Xander hasda not if your qualities and grows as a person over the years.
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u/PenelopePinecone 9h ago
I find him quite annoying and entitled in the first few seasons. He had nice guy syndrome- thinking he deserved some sort of relationship with Buffy because he was just such a good guy... /s
I also appreciate that his character grew out of that. I think he was supposed to be 16 when the show aired, so that actually feels realistic in my experience. That doesn't make his early behavior okay, but it does make it feel real.
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u/Hungry-Highway-4724 3h ago
he is a pervert genuinely. in 1x5 he tries to use a mirror to peep on buffy changing behind him, his #1 insult to cordelia is calling her a whore in various ways instead of just calling her a mean ass bitch, in 2x16 he tries to cast a love spell on cordelia and says he considered raping buffy, in 5x13 he brags about dawn having a crush on him and says it means he's cooler than other guys, in 5x14 he gets genuinely upset that dawn, a child, has a crush on spike now, in 5x15 he says its every guys dream to have a sexbot because it would be great to have "a beautiful girl with no other thought but to please you," in 6x7 he tries to do magic to make his engagement with anya work out and takes no accountability for it even after people start burning to death,(he only admits it when dawn gets vindicated, he would've let her take the fall, proving he has had no growth since 2x16) in 7x18 he has a mass sex dream about a bunch of young girls many of which we know are in high school and underage, and finally, in the comics, he gets with dawn.
keep in mind these are all just examples of him being a sex offender, i left out the examples of him being an annoying pos because it would be too long. though i will add an underrated asshole moment of his that i doubt others will put in the comments so that it doesn't get left out- in 3x4 he volunteers to watch oz in his cage to help willow out and doesn't even attempt to. the second willow leaves the room he goes straight to sleep, intentionally finding a position he'd be comfortable sleeping in. he takes no accountability for this either.
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u/catchyerselfon 45m ago
> his #1 insult to cordelia is calling her a whore in various ways instead of just calling her a mean ass bitch
Unfortunately slut-shaming was the normal insult back then. Willow and Buffy also call Cordelia a skanky-ho, vapid whore, slut, etc. what’s funny is Cordelia dresses more modestly than Buffy does on average and is with Xander far longer without getting past the groping stage, than Buffy is with Angel before they have sex, and yet the insults continue. HOWEVER, Cordelia was awful to Xander and Willow for 12 years, we only saw the last two years of it, and awful to Buffy even after Buffy tried to bond with her. I love Cordelia for who she becomes but she deserves to be knocked off her high horse a few times (just not onto a rebar).
> in 2x16 he tries to cast a love spell on cordelia and says he considered raping buffy
Xander cast a spell out of pure vengeance, as he phrases it, so he can break up with Cordelia and break her heart the way she did to him. It’s not so he can have sex with her. Xander jokes that “it was touch and go for a minute”, but he says, in the moment, that he would only have accepted Buffy’s advances if it were really her in her right mind, not when she’s lost her free will. No one should throw a parade for him doing the decent thing, but he wasn’t seriously considering raping her once he understood what was really happening.
> in 5x13 he brags about dawn having a crush on him and says it means he's cooler than other guys, in 5x14 he gets genuinely upset that dawn, a child, has a crush on spike now,
Xander thinks it’s cool that a powerful entity thinks he’s hot, that’s it, he was never going to reciprocate. The narrative doesn’t endorse Xander’s smugness because Giles, who is ALWAYS appropriate around the very young women and girls in his life, rolls his eyes and walks away rather than let Xander think he gives a shit. The next episode Xander’s upset when he thinks Dawn’s switched her trapper keeper stickers of him for SPIKE, the unrepentant mass murderer over a hundred years older than her, as opposed to FIVE (which people are super weird about, as Xander was never old enough for him be a grown man creeping on a little girl).,
> in 7x18 he has a mass sex dream about a bunch of young girls many of which we know are in high school and underage,
Oh, do you know the Ways of Dream Walking, Oh Wise One, where you’ve mastered the power of controlling the subject of your dreams every night? And did you know at 21-22 how to shut down your unconscious whenever it found someone attractive even if you stopped looking at them? You must pass on this knowledge!
> in 3x4 he volunteers to watch oz in his cage to help willow out and doesn't even attempt to. the second willow leaves the room he goes straight to sleep, intentionally finding a position he'd be comfortable sleeping in. he takes no accountability for this either.
No, that one is fair! The only thing I disagree with is the position Xander is in is NOT comfortable! How could anyone deliberately try to nap lying on a textbook on flat table with all the lights on and nothing to cover up with or curl your body around?! Giles has a couch with cushions in his office and even if Xander is too tall for it, he can let his legs dangle 😆
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u/MarcusTheAnimal 9h ago
It all depends on how forgiving you are of some of his less favourable traits. Which in a show which contains characters who are literally murderers and evil, you'd think people would forgive Xander for occasionally lying and being a dick but I will say it's kept people engaged and talking for a few decades, so it's all good discussion and banter.
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u/ProfessionalRead2724 This line's mostly filler... 9h ago
But the evil murderers had the excuse of literally being soulless demons, and appologised after they stopped being evil. Xander never did. And the show didn't treat his misdeeds as misdeeds, for the most part.
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u/MarcusTheAnimal 9h ago
Yes yes yes. Preaching to the choir dear. He's an unapologetic dick on occasions. So are a few characters.
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u/Oilswell 9h ago
Or, hear me out, people have their own opinions, and this is one where a lot of people agree. You can pretend there’s some grand conspiracy, or that it’s a scathing indictment of people’s inability to think for themselves. But most likely, you just don’t agree with most people.
I would say though, that if you see the creepy, entitled, selfish guy and think “what a great character for the audience to relate to”, that might be something to look at.
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u/TVGoblin90 9h ago
There are odd episodes in the earlier seasons where he's a complete ass and never sees any real reprecusions but S4 onwards when he's more just on the side lines, I think hes a great character. Always delivers great sarcasm, he's Buffy's Chandler.
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u/voorsace 7h ago
I know hes just a character, so I accept that he is written a certain way to engage with the storylines of the show. But away from that, when assessing his characteristics - he would be a yellow/red flag to me as a person irl at best lol.
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u/Actual_Ambition_7123 4h ago
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I never liked him. But it also doesn’t help that his actor was a monster.
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u/Bunnes3000 9h ago
Xander is great. He is authentic - he feels like a teenager or young adult from the real world.
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u/ButDidYouCry 9h ago
I teach teenagers and most of them behave better towards their female peers than Xander does.
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u/Worldly-Gear-1107 9h ago
Do most teen boys you know have female best friends? Are those female best friends noticeably stronger and smarter than they are? Xander could be insecure and possessive but the whole point of his character was that men could rise above that and support the women around them—something Xander does a lot. Yes, he also has problematic moments. That’s the point.
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u/illvria 9h ago
I hate to play the whole media literacy card but i genuinely feel like a lot of the hate for xander comes from a total lack of enagement with the thematic purpose he serves to the story.
Hes buffy's heart. His purpose in conflict situations is to embody a side of her inner conflict that she's avoiding or suppressing and force her to confront it, as well as to centre her emotion when shes scattered or in too much turmoil to see clearly. See "kick his ass", the season 4 premiere, or the Riley talk in into the woods.
People take all that as him being "judgemental" and "asserting his own lens on how she feels as reality" but he is a character, written intentionally.
Hes not perfect, but a lot of the hate comes from looking at and engaging with his character as though hes a real person and not a crafted story device who's every action and word serves a purpose to the shows thematic undercurrent.
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u/Throwawaynotmebye 9h ago edited 9h ago
Not everyone hates him because of the rumor he’s a stand in for Whedon. Some just find him annoying or full of traits they don’t like in a person. Why is every person who dislikes Xander obnoxious simply for hating him?
I had two friends get into the show last year, didn’t know shit about Whedon or the series going into it and they both almost quit because of him. It’s because they personally found him creepy and weird. Yeah, a lot will say the Whedon thing but that’s not everyone who dislikes him. Most actually have deeper arguments than that and to describe them all as obnoxious is just weird.
ETA: I don’t hate Xander myself, I actually don’t care about him either way but can’t deny the show would be different without him. I can appreciate his arcs though sometimes it felt like he got left off light or got to be an unearned voice of reason (see: him telling Buffy to go chase Riley) but I can appreciate his existence as the single normal human surrounded by supernatural persons. But I can also appreciate that the hate for him is rooted in more than the rumor of him being a Whedon stand in, in fact that often only comes up after people have begun explaining why they dislike him.
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u/at_midknight 8h ago
They're obnoxious because the reasons given for hating him are either incorrect because they've misunderstood the show, biased because Xander is hated for things that beloved characters do as bad or worse, or one sided because all of xanders good qualities and actions get ignored or swept aside because he was a horny immature teenager in season 1
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u/Throwawaynotmebye 8h ago
His horny immature attitude was definitely not restricted to S1. And while some may misunderstand his character or the show it’s just incorrect to assume all who criticize him do. Most of the hate is rooted in his behavior, euphemisms, sex jokes, and the fact he gets praised at times for just not being predatory like when Buffy says “thanks for not taking advantage of me” when she was under the effects of a love spell when not assaulting your friend when you know she wouldn’t be into you otherwise is bare minimum. That’s not praise worthy, that’s common sense. Yes, a lot of it is dated stuff from the era, behavior, comments, or jokes that was able to fly back then but that doesn’t mean anyone is misunderstanding him or the show by disliking that and deciding they don’t like him for it. I’ve seen some pretty rounded takes about his relationship and fall out with Anya from people who can’t stand him. Yes, I can appreciate that his whole deal is not wanting to be his father, not wanting to continue the life he was raised in. But that doesn’t mean I have like him when it’s followed by him allying with people kicking out Buffy, or be okay with how much he gets away with, or like how often he criticizes Buffy, along with Willow and Giles too so no excusing them here, when she’s usually the one pulling all the weight there. I like Spike too, you know what he deserves shit for? Buffybot and Seeing Red and he ends up punished for it. But Xander tends to just get let off half the time for most of his wrongdoings or told it wasn’t his fault or framed as the wronged one.
Again, I don’t care much about him. To me he just tends to exist there to round out the cast. He at worst annoys me, but I can get why people dislike or hate his character and I genuinely wish he could’ve been less creepy.→ More replies (6)
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u/ikarikh 9h ago edited 9h ago
Xander is a "good" person at heart who is incredibly immature, consistently makes extremely poor and selfish choices, puts his friends in danger, and feels entitled to female affection. All while hiding behind sarcastic jokes and pointing fingers at others.
Is Xander a bad person? No, not inherently. Can he be funny? Absolutely. Can he have genuine moments? For sure. Does he have a good heart overall? Of course.
But, that doesn't mean all the criticisms mentioned are washed away. His comparisons to Whedon are spot on.
Because Joss himself champion'd feminism, was a great writer, extremely funny, and helped a lot of people.
But he still was extremely toxic, entitled, sexually harassed women, was misogynistic in spite of his feminism, etc.
Xander is not a black and white char. He's EXTREMELY grey. And his cons often outweigh his pros, because in spite of his best moments, he is frequently the source of a lot of immaturity, toxicity and problems for his friends.
Doesn't mean you can't like him. He has likable qualities. But, you have to accept a lot of people simply aren't gonna gel well in the modern era with a char like that who has a lot of that "Nice Guy" toxic masculinity towards women where he acts like women owe him something because he was nice to them and gets bitter and resentful of them if they reject him.
And again, how many times have the gang been involved in life or death situations directly caused by Xander's selfish choices? But because they're presented in a comedic way, it makes it ok? Now of course most chars have put the gang in harms way at some point. Near everyone is guilty of this. But Xander is the most frequent offender, and has done it excessively. He's also someone who knows better AFTER all the nonsense they've gone through and how often he's been the root cause, but still continues to do it in spite of this even as far in as s6. And never seems to learn.
You have to be able to acknowledge these things and understand why many may struggle to find him endearing. Again, doesn't mean you can't. But you should understand why others struggle with him.
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u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie 9h ago
Nah, as a first-time watcher he sucks. He literally screws over every woman on the show
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u/catchyerselfon 9h ago
Joyce? Tara? Jenny? Drusilla? Xander and Willow’s little kissing affair that lasted a month was mutual and he never blamed her for that.
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u/therrubabayaga 9h ago
He was very much sexualizing both Joyce (the hot mom) and Jenny (the hot teacher), he barely interacted with Tara on screen, and Drusilla, seriously?
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u/Open_Bug_4251 9h ago
Sexualizing someone isn’t treating them badly. Treating them badly because he sexualized them would be, but he doesn’t do that to either Joyce or Jenny.
Larry treats women that way. Of course, in the end they turn that into covering up his homosexuality, but the way he initially treats women would definitely be caused by sexualizing them.
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u/catchyerselfon 9h ago
I mention Drusilla because she’s another major female character. So is Harmony and the Cordettes. Oh, and Faith and Kendra and the Potentials! How did he screw over any of them? You said “he literally screws over every woman on the show”. What do YOU think “screws over” means? Because to everyone else it means “betrays”, “steals from”, “lies about for his own protection or gain”, “manipulates for nefarious reasons”, “takes advantage of”, etc… it doesn’t mean “this 15-22 year old had a wet dream or a sexy fantasy about them”. That’s why I didn’t include Amy, because “blackmail is such an ugly word”.,
Sorry 19 year old Xander had a dream about Joyce in a negligée in “Restless” as one part of a much bigger dream induced by the joining spell 🙄. Joyce came on to Xander because he and Amy botched that Iove spell, he immediately dropped his head on the counter in despair when he realized Joyce was under its influence too and he ran away from her. That memory would linger!
Same thing with Jenny: she hit on him when she wasn’t in her right mind, he didn’t intend that. The only way he ever sexualizes her is when he’s encouraging Giles to be upfront and ask her out, saying she’s “reasonably dollsome for someone in your age range”, so he thinks of her as an adult teacher, not someone datable for him.
He has sexy thoughts about Faith, a girl his age who aggressively comes on to him and takes his virginity. He does his best to help her later until she strangles him and sexually assaults him before she’s stopped by Angel.
He’s respectful to Kendra who is very shy around him because she’s not allowed to interact with boys other than saving their lives.
He’s around Tara a LOT, even if they don’t have one on one conversations. He’s always supportive of her, happy she and Willow are together, appreciates her help, and yeah, for a moment in that same dream in “Restless” he pictures Willow and Tara making out - off-camera. I’m sure she’ll get over his PRIVATE THOUGHTS HE HAS NO CONTROL OVER.
He also gets over his crush on Buffy by season 3. Any objections he has about her love life is because it involves VAMPIRES who have tried to kill him and the people he cares about. He likes Riley and Scott Hope and only hated Parker when he found out how Parker treated Buffy, because they’re humans. Once Spike gets a soul, Xander’s like “fine, none of my business if you want him back in your life for Slaying purposes”, he keeps his focus on carpentry, Slaying, and helping his friends. Xander in season 7 has grown and doesn’t make nearly as many inappropriate, poorly-timed jokes and snarky remarks when shit is serious.
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
No he doesn't.
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u/therrubabayaga 9h ago
Well, he casted a love spell and cheated on Cordelia with Willow, and he left Anya at the altar. His track record isn't exactly great.
He was very hard on Buffy many times during the show (the whole relationship with Angel, when she left in season 3, the end of her relationship with Riley, when he learned that Buffy slept with Spike) and never that supportive emotionally speaking. He also had a tendency to talk down to Anya for how she acts, which I never really appreciated.
He was only always nice to Dawn in this "big brother/little sister" dynamic that I quite enjoyed, and of course the comics would ruin that for us.
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
Yes, he does those things. That's not the same as screwing over "every woman on the show." By that logic you can say Buffy screws over every man because she does mean things throughout the series.
He talked down to Anya because she was unfamiliar with humanity and could be naive and confused about basic concepts and morality. But he also loved and respected Anya, in fact, leaving her at the altar was, in a warped way, him trying to save her from ruining her life. But that's his self-hatred and insecurity coming out.
I don't think the comics ruined anything about Xander and Dawn.
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u/therrubabayaga 9h ago
Buffy isn't at all in this dynamic with the men in her life, and they were the ones who went away, for various reasons. Angel to give her a chance at a future and to avoid freeing Angelus again, Riley because he didn't feel loved enough, and Spike by sacrificing himself.
She was mean to Angel one time in the first episode of season 2. She was never mean to Riley, she just didn't feel the intense love he expected. She had a toxic relationship with Spike when he had no soul, but very respectful and tender when he got one.
leaving her at the altar was, in a warped way, him trying to save her from ruining her life.
Sure, by causing her incredible amounts of pain, enough to make her want to be a vengeance demon again. Nice job. Who could have predicted that. Of course I agree that it was his logic, but intent is irrelevant at this level of emotional damage, which he would have avoided by marrying her and doing his best so the visions don't happen. But of course, it's more work than just leaving.
I don't think the comics ruined anything about Xander and Dawn.
If you don't mind seeing the sibling dynamic between them utterly destroyed, sure, I guess.
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u/ticketstubs1 8h ago
"She had a toxic relationship with Spike when he had no soul"
That's very interesting to me you think that makes it okay, when we know as objective viewers how much pain Buffy caused Spike during this time. The entire point of the Spike arc could even be said to be "what is a soul anyway? Does that matter as much as we thought?" You're meant to be wondering these things during Buffy's treatment of him and using him like a sex doll.
"Sure, by causing her incredible amounts of pain"
Ever broken up with someone? That's unavoidable. I've had to walk away from a girl who was crying and begging me on the floor once (yeah I'm as surprised as anybody.) Sometimes things come to a point where you have to do what's right for both of you even though you know it will be painful. That's life.
"but intent is irrelevant at this level of emotional damage"
I don't fully agree with this. Intent doesn't make it better, or right, but it matters to try to understand why he did what he did.
(note: I don't think Xander should have done that to Anya.)
"If you don't mind seeing the sibling dynamic between them utterly destroyed, sure, I guess."
I liked seeing a mature and mutual love and respect between them naturally turn into a more serious and sincere relationship, yes.
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u/catchyerselfon 9h ago
Also, Anya is EXTREMELY rude, dismissive, and self-centred for most of the show. We love her because she’s entertaining and doesn’t TRY to hurt people (except when she’s a vengeance demon), and we don’t have to LIVE with her. She had over a thousand years to learn what’s appropriate in order to blend in with humans so she could get them to make The Wish. Even if one insists “it’s not her fault, she’s on the spectrum!” (despite how many possible other symptoms she does NOT have, but that’s a whole other discussion), Anya is smart and capable of picking up on new things like driving, running a business, using computers, making new friends, picking up on social cues like grief and distress like when Tara is brain-smooshed by Glory.
Xander, who is just 18 when she shows up in his basement/bedroom for sex, is frustrated that she talks about their sex life in front of everyone. He’s embarrassed and upset that she walks in without knocking at Giles’ place and tells GILES to leave so she can have a conversation with Xander, or shouts about Xander’s dick when he’s at work (in front of children) or is paranoid about other women, etc… She gets better, because in season 4 she can barely be arsed to help unless it directly affects Xander, but by season 5 she’s showing up to babysit Dawn and gets her shoulder dislocated (?) trying to protect Dawn from Harmony. She had layers, she can be endearing, but she doesn’t get it when people are subtle and super polite to her, she needs someone to be direct and tell her exactly how she’s messing up.
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u/pralineislife 8h ago
Girl I hated Xander in the 90s. It's OK for people to hate a character you enjoy.
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u/Moonbeamlatte willow’s sentient purple bucket hat 9h ago
Because I find him to be one of the examples of a writers mouthpiece, and its really hard to balance a self-righteous nature with baked-in chauvinistic and have that come across as fun and quirky.
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u/NiceMayDay Spiritus, Animus, Sophus, Manus 9h ago
Everyone I know who’s seen the show have always told me he sucks cause he’s a stand-in for Whedon
As usual, here's the obligatory reminder that while Xander and Giles were based on aspects of Whedon during his adolescence and adulthood, respectively, Buffy, not Xander, was the character who he used as his "avatar and identification figure," and writing for her was "a true kind of therapy, a real autobiographical kind of therapy" for him. But you'll never see anyone hate Buffy as a character over this.
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u/xaianamarie 6h ago
I love Xander. His flaws are actually quite minimal for a teenage boy of that time period. I went to high school with teenage boys of that time period, so just trust me on this one. Xander is brave and fights evil despite having zero obligation to do so.
I feel like the kind of people who hate Xander are the same kind of people who insist time outs are abuse. 🙃
Xander is not the evil.
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u/bluepushkin 8h ago
Please. I have hated Xander from day 1. Long before I had access to any kind of internet forum hive mind. My opinion is my own and influenced by no one other than the show's writing. 🙄🙄🙄
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u/Babid922 9h ago
Audience surrogate for a specific subsection of the audience. I think the actor’s demons and also persistent SA and abuse issues really frame the way ppl view the role, as does the fact he’s the Whedon write in after so much came out about Whedon’s misogynistic and predatory nature. Gender dynamics and what women think as acceptable male behavior has also thankfully changed a lot. His character is a horn dog and creep in a way that ties into the above themes and outweigh his sometimes “awww shucks” personality.
I also think his character suffers from a lack of development in the later seasons because there’s so many characters and Spike is the main male character. They try later in season 7 to redeem him but he’s kind of that guy who constantly says he has a good heart but then treats the woman he loves poorly which is also a trope women are much more critical about.
It’s all ironic though because Buffy is certainly still a hugely modern and feminist piece of art for its time. So even with Brendan and Whedon’s demons the greater message of the show is never fully lost. Nothing is fully black or white I guess.
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u/Moonbeamlatte willow’s sentient purple bucket hat 9h ago
Yea, this is where my thoughts are as well. I know he’s authentic, I know he’s a product of his time, but I don’t have to like it.
I feel like his stagnated character growth in later seasons doesn’t justify him being the voice of reason, especially when his “growth” boils down to him just getting a partner so his loneliness woes are over. His holier-than-thou attitude in later seasons doesnt have any depth to back it up, and it can be really grating.
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u/Jonesdm5 4h ago
If you go back and rewatch season 1/2 he was so creepy and every other comment from him was sexual and/offensive. His obsession with Buffy and hoping between her and Willow and the very “sexual assaulty” scenes that we just skip over for him because he’s the laughable lover guy is gross. He gets better as he grows up but rewatching as an adult made him worse for me.
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u/Eugene-V-Debs 3h ago
Anyone else notice how much /u/Sighoward/ defends known sex pest Joss Whedon for months and does it hours on end? Fucking weird.
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u/Livelaughloveme172 9h ago
Geez why can’t you just dislike Xander in peace with a legit reason? That doesn’t make you obnoxious.
This post is obnoxious.
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u/Large-Tree-3666 9h ago
Early Xander was written creepy but I did find some of his jokes genuinely hilarious. He got alot more likeable as the show went on. He was Joss Whedon's way of living vicariously through the show as a young and attractive guy that actually had a shot with women unlike Joss did lol.
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
How is he creepy early on? I genuinely don't remember anything except that he had a brief interest in Buffy and moved past it.
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u/Ok-Departments 9h ago
I'm rewatching for the first time in about 25 years (I'm 40), currently midway through s3, and I have to say I have been surprised at how often he was angry that anyone had an attraction to Buffy / she had an attraction to them. He voiced it constantly, whereas I remember it as you say; he fancied her and then moved past it.
That being said, Willow has much the same jealously over Xander having interest in others.
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u/ticketstubs1 9h ago
Yeah, he's jealous and insecure. It's not admirable but it's relatable and he mostly matures out of it. Is it that big a deal though?
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u/jospangel Try not to bleed on my couch I just had it steam cleaned 8h ago
I think there are small things that affect women, that might not affect guys. Like Buffy asking Xander to turn his back while she changes, so he moves a mirror so he can watch her change. That's such a betrayal of friendship and trust. Yeah,, Spike does worse, but Spike is an evil demon so I don't expect more.
That one scene epitomizes a lot of my early issues with Xander. The consequence I want is simply Buffy calling him out on it. If he had been called out on the crap like this, then his character would have had a better chance to grow.
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u/Ok-Departments 9h ago
I don't think it is, I think he's a brilliant character. In a world where people are either on the good team or the bad team (yes they cross over, but there are very few greys), he's just someone who is sometimes a bit of a twat on the good team.
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u/Sighoward 6h ago
Joss did alright with the ladies (certainly his wife's divorce lawyers thought so) , magnaphilia certainly works for him
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u/RoutineSheepherder93 9h ago
At the end of the day, he showed multiple times that he’s just another creepy man. Comments about masturbating about Buffy, trying to sexually assault her, being kind when it felt transactional to him, cheating on Cordy, he’s just a typical man and people are calling it out. In the 90s that was very accepted but women are tired of it in 2026, rightfully so.
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u/catchyerselfon 8h ago
He tried to sexually assault Buffy ONLY when he was possessed by a demon. Jenny does the same thing to Giles when she’s possessed by Eyghon, and no one blames her for that (and like Xander, the person “she” gropes is someone she’s attracted to). Willow gets in Xander’s bed and bites his ear when she’s under the influence of his love spell, no one says she crossed Xander’s boundaries. Anyone in the show who attacks or comes on to someone aggressively while they’re possessed/under a spell/lost their soul is treated the way we would in the real world if they were heavily drugged and didn’t have control over their actions: it’s not their fault.
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u/Sighoward 6h ago
No, he's just a young guy, he's not "creepy", he's possessed when he assaults her and joking with Oz is all fine
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u/Moon_Beans1 9h ago
I think a lot of the characters in shows like Buffy are judged overly critically because they are teens played by thirty years olds.
Xander looks like he is being incredibly petty and immature because visually he looks like a thirty year old that should behave better.
But he's supposed to be a teenager so his actions are a lot more understandable. Sure he treats people badly at times and handled the Angel situation badly but he's supposed to be a teenager so that kind of irrationality isn't ridiculous.
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u/DharmaPolice 7h ago
He's not a stand in for Whedon and that isn't the reason most people hate him.
I don't dislike him either but there are thousands of posts of people explaining why they hate him so it feels disengenuous to pretend you don't understand.
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u/Ok_Ant_2715 9h ago
I feel he gets hate for having the audacity of liking Buffy but not being Giles, Angel or Spike.
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u/overallsatisfaction 9h ago
I think it's because people watch the show and see the things Xander does and listen to the things he says.
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u/Surrea_Wanderer 6h ago
If Xander always acted like he did in The Zeppo I'd like him. But generally he has some seriously misogynistic tendencies.
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u/Sighoward 6h ago
Like what? What are his "misogynistic" tendencies exactly? He's the guy who faces off against Warren?
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u/Surrea_Wanderer 5h ago
A lot of off handed comments, plus creeping in Buffy when she's not interested. Making a laundry list would require a rewatch, but there's already lots out there of people covering it better than I have time to
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u/Verystrange129 9h ago
I don’t remember any hate for Xander when the series originally aired so I was really surprised to see the criticism from the fandom. Then I began rewatching and given the cultural change from the 90s to today, it’s not surprising that Xander’s character really hasn’t aged well. There are times he comes across quite creepy, sanctimonious, obnoxious and irritating. His treatment of both Cordelia and Anya also doesn’t do him any favours. Having said that, he also has some really heart warming moments with both Anya and Cordelia and is a loyal friend to Buffy, Willow, and Dawn and he really is very funny. I’m watching S7 at the minute and he is so much better in this season. I think the writers were just hard on his character, he isn’t given the same likability factor in some of the scenes and storylines as some of the other characters.
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u/wddrshns 8h ago
personally i don’t find him funny. it’s great that you can enjoy him but if you don’t find him funny, he gets annoying very quickly. also people on this subreddit defend him all the time so idk why you’re acting like you’re the only one brave enough to do so.
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u/angelmarchini 7h ago
My fiance occasionally watches episodes with me, but is not familiar with the show or community...
"Does he ever get... Better?"
He said this in s2e1 when he almost kissed Willow and then basically ignored her when Buffy came back.
Even one episode highlights how he chooses hos before bros almost every single time.
I pointed out to my fiance in Inca Mummy Girl that Willow was also kind of an incel who couldn't accept that Xander wasn't into her and couldn't let it go.
Being unable to accept rejection isn't cool, nor is abandoning your friends for pussy/dick
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u/crimpgirl1234 9h ago
This tells me that you aren’t a safe person for women to be around.
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u/Wayne_World_19 9h ago
Jumping to this insane logic tells me you aren’t a safe person for anyone to be around.
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u/Specific_Sentence261 9h ago
Right because Xander went around ruining the lives of every women he knew…or…OR he selflessly put himself in harms way to save the people he cared about and the people of Sunnydale. Even lost an eye for it and kept fighting. The dude did some shitty stuff but he wasn’t going around r*ping women.
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u/s_on_reddit 9h ago
What about Xander seducing Buffy with magic spell mind control, like Warren and his zombie gf tech? They were seconds from getting it on at school against her will. He de-brained every female in the town for sex purposes.
But lots of people committed unforgivable sins in the show.
Spike is a straight up serial killer and r word, but only gets criticized for the bathroom scene.
Giles injected Buffy with poison and sent her out to die. No coming back from that assault, imo. But nobody ever talks about that.
Angel had a perfect day with Buffy and then retroactively roofied her, wiped her memory I mean, without asking or telling her, before or after the fact. That is completely bonkers and out of bounds. Unforgivable, as an audience member. He also is a serial killer, r word, murdered Jenny Calendar, etc. But he did the mind wipe on Buffy when he was supposed to be "good."
Angel with a soul is worse than Spike without his.
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u/catchyerselfon 27m ago
Giles did NOT send Buffy out to die. She walks around at night after she leaves Angel’s with no protection when she knows she’s unusually weak. Then she encounters Kralik who chases her until Giles pulls up in the Gilesmobile. Yes, Giles has been lying to her about why she’s “sick” and he IS the cause, but he did this because he thought she could pass the test and prove what a great Slayer she is, just like most Slayers who undergo the Cruciamentum. Quentin, his boss who told him this is necessary, says: “Rupert, if this girl is everything you say, then you've nothing to worry about.” We also know that if Giles had refused earlier, the Council would’ve replaced him with a Watcher who is “their man”, someone who would follow orders without qualms, someone like pre-character-development Wesley (or worse).
When Giles discovers that Kralik broke out and killed the Watchers, he knew the test was invalid and he could make sure she never endured a rigged trial, and that’s when he goes out looking for her. When he tells her the truth and she refuses a ride home from him, Cordelia drives her. Buffy gets out of the car and discovers Joyce was kidnapped, but instead of calling anyone for help (Angel? “Oz, please bring your van and the gang?”
“Giles don’t talk to me but I need you?”) she effectively decides to do the test and save her mother. So no, he didn’t “send Buffy out to die”, he had no idea Buffy was going anywhere but home to sleep off the drugs. When Travers tells Giles that Buffy and Kralik are in the Inn together right now, Giles immediately leaves to help her, and almost gets killed by the sired Watcher after Buffy dusts Kralik.That action, and Travers explaining Giles’ love for her, and firing Giles for it, are all reasons why Buffy eventually forgives him and trusts him again. Others have pointed out that she’s not necessarily comfortable around Giles just because she lets him tend to her wounds and he apologizes. It’s the next episode when Giles does something that’s “the bravest thing I’ve ever seen” and she smiles at him warmly as she takes in his latest injuries, perhaps that’s the moment she truly moves on and accepts him again.
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u/ProcedureSea3277 9h ago
Are you okay? Serious question, this take on men is seriously disturbing and I say that as a woman. People like Xander are not the dangerous people you should be worried about. And liking the character does not mean that people are "not safe for women".
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u/AlexH_144 9h ago
He's the straight white male, that isn't the bad boy that only the viewer can save or somebody that sits back and keeps his mouth shut. Bottom line is that some Buffy viewers have an ideology where a straight white male is public enemy #1.
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u/ButDidYouCry 9h ago
Nah lol this is not it. People love Giles and Wesley, please try again.
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u/Annoying_cat_22 9h ago
I watched the show when it originally aired, and I hated him at the time as well.
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u/CoasterTrax 8h ago
Bcs many ppl have the same opinion means they hate on him only bcs the majority does? Make it make sense
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u/IncreaseGlum6213 6h ago
I watched the show when it originally aired and was probably way too young to watch it, and I didn’t like Xander even then. He would absolutely love the podcast bros of today.
I never liked the way he interacted with women and that was long before misogyny was a cultural topic. I always felt he was a bit smarmy and a creep. And I thought Anya deserved better. Rewatching as an adult hasn’t changed my mind 🤷♀️
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u/ineedtoknowmorenow 6h ago
I hated xander then but less now. He’s written weird. But i agree the fanbase has over analyzed, over debated buffy and loses some context of the time and we can chillout a bit.
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u/death_bi_stereo 9h ago
I don't think the sentiment is that he is a bad character. Buffy is full of flawed characters that are complex and well written. Xander is a great character but not a great person. He is also not the worst person ever. The man has a lot of patriarchal programming that he hasn't unpacked and many people have pointed out where this causes him to treat Buffy and other women on the show unfairly or inappropriately. These red flags weren't as apparent when the show first aired because society was more ignorant and/or accepting of misogynistic behavior. "The one where everyone falls in love with him" is actually the one where he, albeit unintentionally, strips the women around him of their agency so they worship him sexually. They are all impaired and incapable of consent. Yet he seems more concerned with the physical peril this lands him in than what he has done to the women around him. Luckily his conscious keeps him from taking advantage of Buffy, but that's bare minimum decency and he doesn't deserve forgiveness or kudos on the basis of deciding not to assault anyone. So that's one example of why people, myself included, dislike Xander. But I would never say he is a bad character, just a tragically average man whose flaws and blindspots cause him to do things that piss me and many others off.
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u/ok-kitty22 1h ago
Or maybe they all have their own brains and came to the same conclusion because it’s obvious?
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u/SaltyAd8309 38m ago
Xander has never been my favorite character, but no one is going to convince me that he’s a bad person. He has behaved badly—but so have all the other characters. I mostly think that a lot of people today fail to see their own flaws and are a bit too fragile.
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u/AntoniusDryden 9h ago edited 6h ago
Xander is a "nerd" or perhaps better to just say an outsider. Once upon a time, such men were viewed as harmless. Then GamerGate and etc.. happened and suddenly everyone became very aware that nerds and ostracized dorky men are not harmless at all.
This has nothing at all to do with the character of Xander Harris, of course. It's simply that cultural ideas of acceptability have changed radically in the last decade or so. Buffy the Vampire Slayer aspired to be a cutting-edge feminist show so everything that seems to go against that aspect is scrutinized very, very intently. Excessively so, IMO. Because while Xander certainly is a 'product of his time" it's not like his worst behavior isn't called out. Maybe some of his jokes wouldn't fly today but his creepy entitlement towards Buffy in early seasons is absolutely an intentional flaw that he is criticized for. And he gets much, much better in S4.
People are saying he's a Whedon insert but I heard that Nick Brendon actually worked out a lot to make Xander look like an actual construction worker or whatever and he got chewed out for this. I think that was something I heard a few years ago, anyway.
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u/WilliamEmmerson 8h ago
Xander was always the most normal friend in a group of dysfunctional and borderline toxic people.
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u/BananasPineapple05 9h ago
I can't speak for the whole fandom.
But, for me, Xander annoys me in inverse proportion of how touched I am by him when he makes those speeches to Dawn and Willow, or to Buffy in episode 1 of Season 4.
It's how awesome he can be that makes it that much more disappointing when he lets the petty, creepy sides of his personality off the leash.
It's not a hate for the character. I hated Warren. I just wanted him off my screen and, once he was, I was done with him and haven't given him much thought, and even less of an emotional investment.
I loved Xander. Which is why I was so mad at him when he did creepy shit and got away with it.