What software should I use for server? Paper vs Paper

[u/addoniz75_]

I heard Paper is more optimized and the server hosting only has 4gb of ram and generally slow only fit for 5-10 people max but does something with redstone and I do a lot of redstone.

Purpur, I think doesn't do anything to redstone but I don't know if its as optimized as paper

I also heard there is some plugin (forgot name) or some sort that disables what Paper does to redstone but I don't know if it'll affect the performance

I am going to make a 1.21.10 server with 3-5 people and will do redstone farms that require precise timing.

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

What software should I use for server? Paper vs Paper

Okay, wow. Even from the title, there's a lot wrong here. You are very, very confused. I'll do my best.

I heard Paper is more optimized

Paper is the industry standard Bukkit-based server software. Most servers should use Paper. It includes as many performance optimizations as can be made without risking crashes or data corruption. Paper is the best balance of stable and fast.

the server hosting only has 4gb of ram and generally slow only fit for 5-10 people max

Making the most of low power hosting is important. Paper is a good choice for that.

but (Paper) does something with redstone and I do a lot of redstone.

This is a myth/rumor that gets repeated a lot, and never gets explained. I will give a short explanation here.

Many of Paper's performance optimizations are from rewriting Minecraft code in a faster way. Similarly, Minecraft has some bugs in it that Paper has fixed by rewriting the code.

Because Paper isn't "fixing bugs" or "fixing lag", but rather actually rewriting the code, sometimes there are very tiny differences in very rare cases.

Redstone is the most common example of that. Most of Redstone works perfectly. And by "most", I mean 99.9% of Redstone works perfectly.

But there are some technical builds out there that use mechanics that aren't even really related to Redstone in their "Redstone machines". These are things like spawning mechanics, or entity movement between ticks, or how chunks load.

Because some of those features were slow or had bugs and Paper rewrote their code, they work MOSTLY the same, but not exactly the same. And these "Redstone machines" that aren't actually Redstone use those weird mechanics in unintended ways.

Those are the things Paper does a tiny bit wrong. The good news is that Paper fixes these whenever people report them. Just back in January, someobe reported that the Orbital Strike Cannon was broken, and Paper fixed it by February.

So, no. Paper doesn't "break Redstone" and most people won't have any issues with Redstone on Paper, especially if you use the right settings.

Purpur, I think doesn't do anything to redstone but I don't know if its as optimized as paper

Purpur is exactly the same as Paper but with more settings. You have been given bad information.

I also heard there is some plugin (forgot name) or some sort that disables what Paper does to redstone but I don't know if it'll affect the performance

It is not a plugin, it is a config guide that Paper released for setting it up like Vanilla.

It is here: https://docs.papermc.io/paper/vanilla/

I am going to make a 1.21.10 server with 3-5 people and will do redstone farms that require precise timing.

You should use the latest stable version of Paper, not an old version. Bugs get fixed all the time, and in fact the Orbital Strike Cannon bug was fixed in Paper 1.21.11 build 116. You should always always always use the latest stable Paper.

Additionally, this post has info on the settings needed to ensure the Orbital Strike Cannon works properly.

https://www.reddit.com/r/admincraft/comments/1uof3nn/the_orbital_strike_cannon_works_in_paper_2612_now

[u/addoniz75_ → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

Hey, thanks a lot man! Up until now I've always known paper like this and didn't know the things behind it so this is very informative.

So if I just use the right configs for Paper, all the precise tick based farms like minecart unloaders will work right? Also for this server I'll have to stick with 1.21.10 because of a datapack From the Fog, but I think It'll be alright as long as the configs are correct. I won't be doing anything like an Orbital Strike Cannon

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/addoniz75_]

Most of the differences with Paper are handled by following that Vanilla Experience guide.

I will be perfectly honest with you by saying that I do not know absolutely every little thing that technical Minecraft builds depend on, nor am I able to confirm that they for sure work in Paper. I have not personally made the list and tested them.

But we have a Paper Team member on Admincraft Staff, and through many discussions with them and others, I can say that these complaints about Paper "breaking Redstone" started many years ago when Paper actually DID. They have since then put in a lot of effort to fix things, and to offer users choices via config files. That's what the Vanilla Experience guide is.

Because Paper does not backport fixes, there could be a fix for a feature you need in Paper 26.1 that won't be in 1.21.10; I just don't know. Additionally, the bug that broke the Orbital Strike Cannon was a bug that affected tons of things related to entity collisions, so there is a chance it fixed other previously broken machines, in addition to the Cannon.

At the end of the day, Fabric is the guaranteed option for perfect Vanilla parity, and is a fine choice. I have nothing against Fabric. But Paper is damn close, performs better, and has plugin support. If technical players like you used it and reported things that were not quite right instead of just bailing and switching to Fabric, this would not be a problem.

If I were you, I would test your datapack on latest Paper. It might work fine. Before starting your playthrough, configure the necessary settings for the Vanilla Experience, and then load some Litematica schematics of your essential technical builds to test if they work as you expect. If not, consider making a report, and then maybe switch to Fabric. If they do work, fantastic, you have a better performing server that has plugin support.

That's the honest and nuanced approach.

[u/addoniz75_ → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

Alright got that. Again, thanks a lot for you're response man!

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/addoniz75_]

No worries, dude. Ultimately, I don't really care what you end up using. I am just tired of people spreading rumors they have never questioned or researched. I want everyone to know the full truth, not what a small group of people decided was best a long time ago and then spread around like a religion.

Hopefully, you now feel like you have the whole story.

[u/addoniz75_ → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

Yeah. I am one of those guys just cause my hopper minecart unloader didn't work on a Paper server but hey at least now I know you can revert all changes done to redstone with their config so that's actually genuinely life changing

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/addoniz75_]

revert all changes

Most changes.

done to redstone

Redstone is fine. It's all of the other tiny mechanics that it changes. Stuff with entities, chunk loading, activation ranges, bugs that Paper fixes like headless pistons or limiting TNT per tick or TNT duping, etc.

It's not perfect, but it's close. And the more people who report things that are close but not quite perfect, the more perfect it gets.

that's actually genuinely life changing

This I agree with. :) People are so mean to Paper. It just needs some more help from the community to get better. :)

[u/Firewolf06 → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

At the end of the day, Fabric is the guaranteed option for perfect Vanilla parity, and is a fine choice. I have nothing against Fabric. But Paper is damn close, performs better, and has plugin support. If technical players like you used it and reported things that were not quite right instead of just bailing and switching to Fabric, this would not be a problem.

adding on to this, theres a bukkitverse plugin for damn near everything. there have been a good few times that there is no mod for what i want on fabric, so i end up writing it myself. if you have modding experience (or money to spend on someone who does) it really isnt a big deal, but if youre looking for more off-the-shelf parts paper will likely have a better selection

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/Firewolf06]

Yup. My perfect world is one where Paper has optional Vanilla parity and Fabric has a wealth of high quality "plugin-like" mods.

[u/Ok-Count-3366 → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

give this man a raise lmao

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/Ok-Count-3366]

Hah, thanks. Imagine how powerful I'd be if I was doing this for money. Most I ever get is someone buying me a beer on my Kofi lmao.

[u/Ok-Count-3366 → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

you a dev?

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/Ok-Count-3366]

I used to do enterprise swe, but I hated the corporate world, so now I just code for fun.

[u/herzceo → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

I was always under the impression that paper should bot be used for redstone stuff. Then in what cases is fabric a good choice?

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/herzceo]

I...what?

*points at the conversation that I painstakingly wrote out nuanced explanation after nuanced explanation*

Did...did you read what I wrote?

[u/herzceo → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

I did.

I am admitting that had the same baseless believe. Then I ask what's your read on fabric? Since it's generally recommended as the redstone-safe alternative. Are there still cases where one should go with fabric instead of paper?

I could've phrased it better.

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/herzceo]

As I stated in this comment:

At the end of the day, Fabric is the guaranteed option for perfect Vanilla parity, and is a fine choice.

Fabric makes no gameplay or system changes aside from implementing the Fabric API. As such, it has perfect vanilla parity, because unless you add mods, it is vanilla.

Paper does not have perfect vanilla parity, even with the options I have outlined above. The Vanilla Experience guide helps a ton to get it very very close, and high quality user bug reports with reproduction steps are helping it get closer and closer all the time, but Paper still is not perfect.

Even so, it is often close enough to perfect to satisfy the needs of a typical user who enjoys Redstone. Most users who don't understand that "Redstone is broken" isn't accurate aren't advanced enough to need more than basic Redstone in the first place. They hear that mistruth and think "so my torches and pistons and observers won't work? I like those, so I don't want to use Paper." So by repeating "Paper breaks Redstone", people are driving users away from Paper for no reason.

The use case for Fabric is if you know that Paper breaks something you specifically need, something beyond Paper's fully functional Redstone. Something from the true Technical Minecraft camp that depends on precise spawning, collision, entity, chunk loading, etc behavior. I have no issue with Fabric being the platform of choice for technical Minecraft if that's what you need.

My problems are:

• The incorrect statement that "Paper breaks Redstone" when it is actually other mechanics that technical Minecraft builds use sometimes that are broken.

• The rampant spread of this rumor without explaining the nuance of how or why or even what is broken.

• The fact that the longer people avoid Paper instead of working on improving it through high quality reports, the longer it will remain a suboptimal choice.

So like, yeah, Fabric is good software and is good for Technical Minecraft. But just stop saying "Paper breaks Redstone", and consider if you are actually doing anything complex enough to need Fabric.

[u/herzceo → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I will spread awareness)

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/herzceo]

Go forth, Soldier. 🫡

[u/ibeerianhamhock → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

I don't run paper so I won't pretend to be experienced, but my understanding is if you disable tick skips and batching you get near vanilla parity. I can't remember the paper exposes those levers or whether or not you need purpur for that.

Personally I use alternate current in fabric which imo is optimized redstone and removing directional bugs as well as update suppression, and I'm fairly confident that purpur with batching and tick skipping disabled as well as using ALTERNATE_CURRENT is essentially functionally identical.

I've never had a single issue with my fabric setup with anything complex I've made within those limitations, and I assume similarly configured purpur would be the same.

[u/Mr_Potatoez]

Purpur is a fork of paper. Its just Paper with some extra stuff on it.

You might actually want to look at using fabric. Fabric with some serverside mods is more close to vanilla than paper and doesnt actually mess with redstone behaviour

[u/addoniz75_ → u/Mr_Potatoez]

Oh so fabric is best for redstone than paper/purpur. What mods do you recommend for just optimization? I might installing too much and actually not optimize the server

[u/Ictoan42 → u/addoniz75_]

Lithium is the main optimization mod. FerriteCore, Krypton, LazyDFU, and C2ME are generally good too.

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/Mr_Potatoez]

Paper does not "break Redstone". Paper has subtle changes to other game mechanics that are rarely used in "Redstone builds".

Please stop repeating this truism. It's almost correct, sounds correct, is repeated constantly, but is absolutely not correct.

Additionally, leaving out that there is a guide for restoring Vanilla mechanic behavior available, and that a major bug was fixed earlier this year, is doing people a major disservice.

Paper is not the problem. People repeating this mistruth all the time and thus making it so no one reports bugs to the Paper team is the problem.

Please see my other comment in this thread.

[u/Mr_Potatoez → u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO]

I never said it breaks redstone, I said it messes with its behaviour, wich it does.

I also never said that paper is a problem, most people don't build redstone contraptions complicated enough to see the effect of these changes.

I also didn't know there was a guide for restoring vanilla behaviour to paper, could you share it so I can inform other people better in the future?

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_REPO → u/Mr_Potatoez]

The nuance I'm pointing out is the concept of it doing anything to Redstone. All Redstone blocks have exact 1 to 1 functionality. It changes other, adjacent mechanics that are sometimes exploited by very complicated technical Minecraft machines.

[u/admincraft-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/admincraft-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Post removed for Rule 14:

Posts or comments that contain sufficient misinformation as to be harmful to the community will be removed to prevent the spread of misinformation.

We are all here to learn and grow together, so when corrected, don't argue, ask questions, be prepared to be wrong sometimes.

To prevent future removals, please read over all our rules. Do not repost.

---

If you feel this removal was in error, please Message the Mods, rather than reposting or PMing a moderator directly. Response time is usually same-day, but may take several days in some cases.