As someone who has worked in US automotive manufacturing for a while... we literally all say this constantly. No one wants any of this crap in their car unless they are that out-of-touch-with-reality wealthy.
and yet the barebones models that exist dont sell.
Several of the "Japanese" makers that still offered 20k-ish base model cars with no options recently they all discontinued them because they accounted for not even a rounding error in sales.
No one wants them.
Someone would rather buy a used car with more options for the same price 99 times out of 100.
Fuck heated seats, ventilated cloth is the dream. 30 years ago heated seats might have been useful, today heated leather ain't doing shit when it's 110° at 99% humidity.
Also: Sad to hear but I understand. If base models sold manufacturers would have tilted their product stacks to base model vehicles. But they don't.
Tbh some of these options don’t really seem that expensive. Heat trace wire is like a couple bucks a foot. I do think they mark up the gizmos like crazy.
I mean... I too would expect that to be just standard equipment like windwipers. But heaters probably got categorized as an addon to charge extra for by marketing.
But really nobody should have to freeze their ass off in a base model during winter.
People seem to forget what 'base model' is.
My truck was a 'base model' when it was new, 40 years ago, and the only feature it had was power steering. That was a feature back then.
Yes, times have changed, but heated seats are a luxury. AC, while a necessity for most people, is still a luxury. It's not necessary for the vehicle's operation and it's not a federal requirement.
Now, that said, a 'creature comforts' package with things like a radio, power steering, power windows, etc. would be nice to have provided it's not tacking 10k on to the prices like manufacturors seem to like to do.
I don't think I've been on a bus that had AC, and I've lived in plenty of houses without heat, albeit they were in Florida. Plenty of very old houses around here only have electric baseboard heating and it gets down to around 0 F in the winter here.
And yes, times have changed, but if you're comfortable without AC, say, if you live in the North where the houses don't even have central AC, you should be able to get a car without it. Or, if you're needing a cheap, reliable, safe car: you should be able to buy a car without AC. AC systems are expensive, heavy, and drain power off the engine. If you have a tiny little 2.0L 4 banger, or even smaller, the load an AC puts on an engine is quite noticeable.
Heat on cars doesn't take anything but a heater core since it uses waste engine heat.
I'm not saying they shouldn't offer AC, heat, power steering, radio, power windows, etc, but if all you need is a bare bones car to get you from point A to point B, you should be able to buy one that's just a car.
That's such a different reality than I see because I was trying to buy a Hyundai Ionic earlier this year. I could afford the base model, wanted an EV, but the only models available had a ton of add ons that increased the price by 5-10K.
That's such a different reality than I see because I was trying to buy a Hyundai Ionic earlier this year. I could afford the base model, wanted an EV, but the only models available had a ton of add ons that increased the price by 5-10K.
Tell the dealerships you want a bare bones no add one. They can order it. You don't have to buy what is on the lot.
I ended up finding a Tesla dealership error where I was essentially scamming the dealership out of 5K and got a 2023 Tesla for 22K so I ended up not pushing the Hyundai people too much. Original price wise I still would have gotten an Ionic though.
Nah I preferred ripping off Tesla. Much better story. The moment I realized the listing had the wrong VIN and I looked up the VIN and it was a newer car with 150K less miles, I realized it was meant to be.
The dealership tried to block the sale for like two months but I'd already put down the transport fee and reservation fee. They were like "oh we can waive all the fees and cancel the sale" and I was like "nah I got this VIN for this price and I have it in writing from you."
They were so mad they gave me the car with no license plate screws or windshield wiper fluid or front tow key.
but the only models available had a ton of add ons that increased the price by 5-10K.
This is more the fault of dealerships' lobbying in every state to defend the existence of their business model. Cars would be 100% custom, made-to-order directly from the manufacturer with only the add-ons that you want... if only dealerships didn't get laws created to protect their existence.
Direct-from-manufacturer sales are illegal, which means dealerships decide which vehicles they want from the manufacturer. And dealerships are always going to be biased toward the more fully-loaded vehicles. Dealerships will also add their own custom bullshit add-ons as well.
This is also why Tesla has such an advantage. Tesla only sells in states that didn't create those same anti-consumer laws for electric vehicles. So Tesla gets to sell its vehicles direct to consumers.
Anyone saying those laws are to "protect the small businesses" are liars or misinformed. It's purely because the dealerships (which are NOT small businesses) spend loads of money to buy politicians & make sure it's illegal for manufacturers to sell you new cars.
That’s on both the manufacturer and the dealerships. Some of the cars they order have upgrades done at the factory and the dealership has to take the car that way or not get anything. Then dealerships also add on stuff themselves. Pinstripes, upgraded floor mats, seat protection, paint protection, etc.
It isn’t really feasible when government regulation adds $4-9k+ to the sticker price of new cars between emission/fuel economy standards and active/passive safety features.
Seems to be what killed the Mitsubishi Lancer. It was a reliable all wheel drive sedan and the common complaint was the interior looked cheap. And it did, but it was an AWD car you could buy for under 20k in 2016. It had abysmal sales its last year on the market though.
I think it's more than just base models. Driving just isn't cheap anymore, insurance, gas, maintenance it's all a drag on the finances. I just don't think it's in the realm of low income affordability anymore.
Yep this is the answer. The car this lady wants already exists on the market for $20k, and it's a 5 year old Toyota with 60k miles or so. That car will easily run another 100k miles, and it's basically impossible for a manufacturer to profitably build a new car that can compete at that price point.
Opel made the Opel Adam and the Opel Karl as two different barebones models. The Karl a bit larger and more barebone started below 10k€ in 2015. That's still good and safe German Engineering.
Me! Me! I want one! Base model Toyota five-seaters start at $41K from what I can find and the only new Fords with no stupid touch display crap are work vans--?? So I'm still driving a 2011 Escape and praying I can find another "dumb" small SUV that is still roadworthy when this one finally outlives all of its replaceable parts. If that $20K car can accommodate five American asses and winter driving conditions I will take it!
Because realistically, some stuff has become normal to the gen that has grown up driving them. No backup camera would require a driving lesson or two. It’s hotter than it used to be so no AC sorta sucks. People need their phone to navigate. Roll down windows are something you don’t even think of unless they’re gone.
If something is so basics that it feels antique then I can see that being an issue. And you’re still paying interest on it. Basic but still in-line with what people view as modern is different.
Even then “no one wants them” isn’t accurate. They’re a rounding error because you also need to sell more of them. One person buying an expensive car accounts for 3 people buying a cheap car. Lots of rich and upper middle class people exist so realistically their spending will, from an accounting standpoint, be better for sales unless cheap options reach a critical mass of sales.
outside of fleet vehicles, the people that want bare bones cars and the people who purchase brand new cars and not used cars are basically just two separate circles...
Go educate yourself about EU regulations to have car be road legal, all the crap in cars is only do to them. and all of them were implemented by far left progressive controlled politicans.
If you would de-regulate cars we would have hundreds of new car brands pop up making simple good cars....
Hell VW can't even make a Golf from 2014 anymore as such car lacks countless forced by government features and to add those features it would make the car ~10000 euros more expensive
Everyone always quotes these huge numbers for government regulation additions yet I've seen no proof of this. Sure the major manufacturers say as such, but they'll upsell their mother given the opportunity.
Nah, pretty sure if you offered a car with a reliable engine with basic features vs a car with a ton of flash and led interior lighting and heated steering wheels but a horrificly unreliable engine that Americans would choose the features nearly every time. The market doesn't get the way it is now if people made sensible choices.
People are just too comfortable taking on debt since interest rates have been relatively low for so long. When you're not buying with cash, a lot of people will see a $10-15k increase in cost to get all the features and shrug, thinking "well, I'm going to be driving it every day, so I might as well."
Tell me about it. I have a friend who finances everything and I can't fucking imagine what his monthly spend is. And I'm not just talking multiple vehicles, he has phones financed and coffee machines financed and mowers financed and on and on and on. I do not understand it at all.
"No one" is a big word in this context. Many people do enjoy a car that has QoL features like pre-conditioning the AC through their phone to arrive to a nicely heated/ventilated car or with the snow melted from the windows; or just a screen with navigation or android auto/apple carplay to not have to hang their phone when they need to go somewhere new. Backup cameras are handy, hell, even side cameras are quite handy.
Many brands have fucked up their cars by adding a million safety features, yes, but the rest is fine. I have a 2023 car and I'm satisfied with the features it has, and it doesn't have many annoying features.
Pre-conditioning the AC? Brother if I am spending so much money on a car that that's even an option that AC better do it's job already in under a minute. The newest car I've had is a 2015 without any of the new bells and whistles and that AC will get you cool in 60 seconds even in 90 degree weather
Remote start has been a thing for like 2+ decades now. This is just that but being able to control the HVAC temp and fan speed from your phone. What on earth is wrong with that? I don't have that feature on an 2022 model $30k vehicle I purchased during the worst car market we've ever seen, just traditional remote start where the manually selected HVAC options it was parked with are in play, but that's not a hard thing to add on. I can completely control my $100 house thermostat from my phone and that's wonderful.
I quite like technology, and have the mental fortitude to ignore it when it is not safe to give it attention.
I like having big screens with big maps on them. I like HUDs and 360 cameras. I like ventilated wireless phone charging. I like dual climate. I like seat memory functions.
I like lane keep assist, blind spot monitoring, and adaptive cruise control. I like being warned about upcoming speed changes. I like when I can talk commands to my car and not have to even press a button.
I like cars that park themselves and that can be controlled from outside the car.
A lot of this stuff is convenient, and materially improves safety. I learned to drive without all of it, and it in no way harms me to use it sometimes anyway. From my perspective, more or less none of it materially detracts from the driving experience. Maybe an overzealous LKA, that's gradually becoming rarer and rarer.
The whole "screens bad. me want simple drive." stuff, to me, comes across as shallow and asinine. It's just annoying people talking about 'the good old days' when 'cars were cars', or some other halcyon-flavoured bias.
People who want this stuff demonstrably do exist. Many of us just want a calm experience of getting to and from somewhere and that includes a few fancy things to make it more comfortable.
I was driving long before we had any of this stuff and it makes me to appreciate it more, I think.
IMO, it's just this strange general rejection of technology without any critical thinking that I've seen more and more with younger folks. Yeah, not all technology is great, but sometimes there's just a stubbornness about anything modern because they never had to deal with doing it the old way.
You and I and almost everyone here doesn’t want it. But I sure know people who get a boner when they can show off their 4K cinema infotainment system and ugly ass RGB interior lights.
A car should either be cheap or reliable. Modern cars aren’t either of those options. They cost a fortune and stop working when you update at the wrong time.
I’m not wealthy. I have a mediocre SUV, but the best one available with so many safety features and luxury novelties that I enjoy. It’s not a BMW or Mercedes, but I love it and I don’t like the bare bones trim because it’s less safe!! I have children, and I care about them, so the extra cost is definitely worth it!
I know a couple of people who want this - boomers who shouldn't be driving anymore but still are. They NEED all those sensors to stop them drifting, cameras to make sure no kids are near them, sensors to help them park, sat nav to guide them everywhere they go, automatic gearboxes because they struggle with manual gearboxes now. It's...terrifying that these people are still on the roads and it's doubly terrifying that the only reason they can afford these fucking things is because they lease them, which means when the lease is up they get a newer model with even more gadgets to help them drag their befuddled asses around.
As someone who has worked in US automotive manufacturing for a while... we literally all say this constantly. No one wants any of this crap in their car unless they are that out-of-touch-with-reality wealthy.
It's similar how everyone keeps asking for healthy whole food plant-based meals at fast food joints.
Barely enough people buy it to justify offering it long term.
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u/TheDevilsDominium 9h ago edited 8h ago
As someone who has worked in US automotive manufacturing for a while... we literally all say this constantly. No one wants any of this crap in their car unless they are that out-of-touch-with-reality wealthy.
Edit: fixed an added dash that didn't belong.