r/PoursTea • Timendi Causa Est Nescire • 13h ago

PoliticalTea 🗳️ Exactly this...

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92

u/Kohltrain37 12h ago

Every moron describing socialism either describes capitalism or totalitarianism

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u/Long_Run6500 11h ago

I just want a system of government that makes rich people pay taxes and uses that tax money to fund infrastructure and social services. I don't really give a shit what they call it. 

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u/breaducate 9h ago

I just want a system of government that makes rich people pay taxes

What you're describing is impossible. The existence of rich people implies their capture and control of government.

There is no lasting equilibrium or economic justice that can be achieved in class society.

Exponential wealth and power consolidation is an emergent property that cannot be disentangled from private ownership of the means to produce what people need.

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u/Sstargamer 7h ago

You are literally smoking dude. Look at the marginal tax rates of the last 100 years... Guess what in the early 1900's when they had a very high tax rate for millionaires and the ultra wealthy, there was less interference in government and higher socialist programs. Hell repealing citizens United alone in the USA would have stopped the vast increase in political spending by oligarchs.

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u/JeepersBroski 7h ago

You're literally proving their point:

"There's no LASTING equilibrium or economic justice."

And you describe decades ago, things were vastly more equitable than they are after the rich clawed those gains of the working class back.

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u/tutoredstatue95 7h ago

Yet you offer no alternative.

The problem has always been ambitious people. The system needs to work for them or they simply break the system. Every time.

The “government capture” happens either way. Feudalism, capitalism, communism, all subject to capture in their own ways.

The only thing that does work is a well defined system of government with an informed populace. Pick any system and it fails without that.

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u/MyEarIsHurty 6h ago

The solution is a return of common ownership of the means of production and community run organisations. The 'government capture' here is of the working class, taking control through these community organisations working together on an international scale. 

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u/tutoredstatue95 6h ago

And the ambitious will corrupt the organizations. It still takes a well educated populace to run that system. The workers concentrate the power and then some party takes it away.

Every system is better than the next if you approach it with pure theory.

Just to be clear, I’m heavily on the side of labor here, but fundamental human flaws are something that need to seriously be considered.

Complacency and apathy being the biggest problem, greed being the hammer to that nail.

My point being, the optimal approach is probably somewhere in the middle. Basic needs can be met.

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u/MyEarIsHurty 5h ago

You're mistaking cultural conditions for immutable facts of humanity. Humans are biologically capable of self management and co regulation. You're making an assumption based on your own experience, projecting it onto all civilisations across all of time. What you see is not 'fundamental human flaws' but the consequences of a society raised to be docile and competent only of serving one's employer. With very few exceptions, all humans have the capacity to self organise, and corruption is only possible when they have been stripped of that ability. 

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u/AltruisticVehicle 7h ago

What... You can absolutely get rich without any help from or control of the government.