r/Overseas_Pakistani • • Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

41 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 6h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Can I exit on NICOP?

0 Upvotes

Hey I’m a US citizen who’s stayed in Pakistan for years, my visa expired and I renewed it sometimes but then I eventually overstayed but applied for my NICOP and received it, I’m going back to the US after years I know the US will let me inside but does anyone know if I’ll be able to exit Pakistan? Please let me know someone my flight is soon !!


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر POC Application on PakID App - Questions

1 Upvotes

Apologies in advance as there are a lot of questions here. But if anyone with experience applying for POC / using PakID who can answer any of the questions - my wife and I would be super grateful!

Thank you in advance

Situation:
I’m a British Citizen (not of Pakistani origin) who got married to a Pakistani woman. We got married in the UK, and registered our marriage in Pakistan also and have an MRC for this. My wife updated her CNIC to reflect our marriage, so this means everything is set for me to apply for POC.

Whilst going through the PakID app POC application, we came across quite a few issues and not sure how to resolve:

  1. In the section called “Address Details”, where you can input a Present and Permanent address - the issue is that the app is forcing me that one of these must be in Pakistan. But I don’t live in Pakistan?

  2. Confusingly, there is a second section called “Address Details (POC)”, which also asks for two addresses. One being “Origin”, and the other being “Abroad”. So what is this section asking for if it’s already been answered in Point 1 above?

  3. Do any of these addresses in Point 1 or 2 need to match the address on the back of my wife’s CNIC card? Both her CNIC addresses are still set as Pakistan

  4. When inputting Pakistani addresses, we get a million options for Union Councils and localities. Does it matter which ones are picked for both options? Also, what is meant by Post Office on the Pakistani address?

  5. Under Family Details section, the “Head Details” would be my wife. I can then add a Spouse in this section to input my details. When I do so, I’m prompted to use her CNIC number for myself. But everytime I save this, the spouse name changes from my name, to hers. I’m not sure if this is normal? Or have I got something here the wrong way?

  6. Under “Additional Details”, there’s a question asking “Acquired Pakistani Citizenship”. It defaults to “Yes” even after I select “No”. It will not save as “No”. Is this an issue?

  7. Under “Additional Details” I’m asked for Purpose of Stay. I’m not sure what they are referring to, staying where exactly? I’m not living in Pakistan. My options are: Dual Nationality Holder, Employment Abroad, Immigrant, Immigrant Visa, Intending to Reside Abroad, None, Resident, Resident Visa. I selected Resident for this but unsure.

  8. Under “Additional Details (POC)”. I’m asked for a “Contact Person Details (POC)”. Can this be anyone in Pakistan - i.e her brother?

  9. When being asked to upload documents. I’m asked for “undertaking F”, which is the NADRA POC affidavit. I’ve read mixed accounts of people saying whether this document needs to be attested or not. Assuming it does, do I get the form fully filled first then go to the consulate with my wife only? Or do we all have to go (including witnesses) and do the signatures there for it to be attested?

Thanks guys in advance and apologies again! Any help would be super appreciated


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 22h ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Need Advice and Suggestions

1 Upvotes

Hello,

A little about myself, i am 24M doing ACCA in pakistan, i am considering to relocate to UAE to complete my ACCA.

I tried researching on google and found out that most institutions that do provide with ACCA training are not allowed to provide student visa. And the only option i have is to try and enroll into a bachelor program from a university (This is what google said)

Im sure there must be other options too, people living in UAE must have knowledge about options that do not surface above just by a simple google search.

So im writting this to gain some advice and suggestions on possible routes i can take. So anyone who tried this option of doing ACCA or any accounting/finance by relocating to UAE, what did you guys do? And if bachelors is the only option i have, are there cost effective universities that teach bachelors in accounting and finance in the same respective field of study? And if so, i would be thankful for any advice and suggestions.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 1d ago

Finance | معاشی Non-EU student in Italy: best way to receive money from family in Pakistan and have an Italian bank account?

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone, I just moved to Padova Italy for my master's and I'm trying to work out the best setup for two things: having a proper bank account here, and receiving money from my parents in Pakistan. They'd send it either monthly or as a bigger amount every three or four months, and their bank (Meezan) said they just need my IBAN and the reason for the transfer. I'd like to avoid lots of in-person bank visits and paperwork if possible, so I've been looking at opening an account online with Revolut or Wise, since those seem to be what most people use here. But I'm not sure whether either of them reliably accepts transfers coming from Pakistan, so has anyone actually received money from Pakistan into one of them, and did it arrive without problems? I'm also open to anything that suits this better, whether that's another app or a traditional Italian bank that's friendly to international students. Does the account work like a normal bank account for a student, with an IBAN and a debit card, and did you ever have trouble with landlords or other Italian institutions not accepting the IBAN? I'd also love to know roughly how much gets lost in fees and exchange rates, and whether you'd do anything differently. I'd really appreciate any experience or advice, especially from other international students. Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 1d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Is Pakistan's higher education system really as bad as we think?

0 Upvotes

I was thinking about whether Pakistan's higher education system is actually as poor as it is criticized? If Pakistan is lacking in terms of education then in which areas?

Is it mainly related to

  • Quality of professors
  • Curriculum and course depth
  • Diversity of programs
  • Infrastructure/labs
  • Research opportunities and funding
  • Or something else?

I'm not talking about low tier institutes because situation there is extremely dire.

I will appreciate comments from people who have studied STEM both in Pakistan and abroad, since they can provide a direct comparison.

Thanks!


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 2d ago

Finance | معاشی Should Overseas Pakistanis file Income tax return? Brief guide with Common FAQs answered

3 Upvotes

Thinking about filing tax return but scared of any notices? Here's a breakdown of filing Income tax return

Benefits

  1. Sale purchase property @ 1/10th tax of nonfiler

  2. Half rate on vehicle registry tax

  3. No bank transaction issue

  4. If you need to get any of these transactions done after deadline you will have to pay 25k penalty

FAQs

  1. How much tax do I have to pay? No you don't need to pay any taxes if you file return you have already paid taxes in the country you live in, though you will have to pay tax on any income earned in Pak (rent, interest, business)

  2. Will I get any Audit notices? No since you haven't earned anything in Pak you don't need to worry about Audit

  3. I send money to my Account in Pak and family withdraws from ATM, why is tax deducted on ATM transaction? If Nonfiler withdraws more tha 50k from ATM (in 1 day) then tax deducted from Bank Account

  4. Do I need to declare income earned in US/UK/Gulf? No


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 2d ago

Finance | معاشی Why don't Overseas Pakistani invest in Pakistan based businesses or funds as we're one of the few countries that are offering a higher rate on savings. You can do that through us easily.

0 Upvotes

Hello everyone, I have a small business that I'm trying to build and for that we're trying to raise capital. Now to clear one thing, reaching out to investors outside of Pakistan isn't to raise funds from people that are out of reach but its simple math. Fixed income funds in US offer 4-5%, Dubai, Oman and other GCC states are also in the similar range of 4-6% whereas Pakistan low risk funds offer 10% base currently as 10Y yields have touched 12.5%. Yes devaluation is a risk but PKR needs to be devalued against the USD by at least 8-12% for it to damage your returns.

We're a small company currently financing consumer electronics at (smartphones, laptops) smaller ticket options due to lack of capital hence we're raising capital and offering 14.5 - 16.5% fixed annual return. We wanted to move towards financing essential services which have a higher ticket in healthcare sector and focus on low risk products (consumer electronics are slightly higher risk) such as furniture, home appliances and mobility. The maximum tenure that we currently offer is 12 months hence our risk to rates and default is comparatively low than longer tenures. We do have other services that we offer to businesses which includes financial management, bookkeeping, advisory etc. and we're providing those services outside Pakistan as well so we do have a decent monthly income but it's not enough to build a capital base, a liquidity reserve base and cover expenses hence we're reaching out to investors.

We have also developed a portal for clients which allows you to track your amount 24/7 (except on Saturday & Sundays) so there's no informal communication about where it is. If anyone would like to discuss further we can keep an online meeting or have any of our references speak to you in person in either UK, Canada or Dubai. Looking forward to this because you could benefit from higher spread at lower risk.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Pakistani passport with green card, can you get Egypt visa on arrival?

1 Upvotes

If you’re a green card holder with Pakistani passport, can you get Egypt visa on arrival? I looked at the Egyptian embassy website but it doesn’t specify clearly. It actually makes it look like Pakistan passport can get visa on arrival even without gc. Just looking to see if anyone has any first hand experience with a similar situation.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 2d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Help from the Consulate in Frankfurt

0 Upvotes

Could anyone here assist me in establishing contact with the Frankfurt consulate? My application has been pending for nine months without any updates. My calls remain unanswered, and the cost of traveling to Frankfurt repeatedly is unfortunately expensiv the website indicates a processing time of three to six months, this timeframe has been significantly exceeded. I would be happy to provide further details if necessary, but I am seeking a reliable way to communicate, as my attempts via telephone have been unsuccessful. During my application process, I observed that the staff appeared to handle inquiries inconsistently and often concluded calls prematurely without fully addressing the concerns.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Anyone from newyork here ?

1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 3d ago

Stories | داستاں Is anyone here Baloch Pakistani abroad?

0 Upvotes

If so, what country are you in and have you met and do you know other Baloch Pakistanis where you live?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 3d ago

Finance | معاشی How can USD to PKR exchange rate remains stable for so long?

1 Upvotes

I am genuinely curious how the Pakistani govt is able to maintain USD to PKR exchange rate at 277 for more than 3 years now when the inflation in Pakistan in PKR is around 10% but the inflation in the US in USD is less than 3%?

How long can this stable exchange rate be sustained?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 4d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Urgent Donation Appeal

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5 Upvotes

Malik Saadullah, 18, is battling severe scoliosis that has progressively affected his daily life. He now urgently needs spinal surgery to address his condition.
The surgery and treatment will cost approximately PKR 2,000,000, which is a huge financial burden for his family.
We are humbly asking for your help. Even a small contribution can bring Malik one step closer to getting the treatment he desperately needs and moving forward with his life.
If you cannot donate, please share this appeal. Your support could make a life-changing difference.
This is a verified case of a family friend with every document available for authentication and you can dm me for further details.
Contact info : 03235718350
For Donations
03235718350
Jazzcash/easypaisa/nayapay


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 4d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Best eye surgery in Punjab

1 Upvotes

My mum has cataracts in both eyes and needs a surgery, the waiting list and cost abroad is to much.

Where is a trusted place in punjab. Preferably Islamabad/Pindi or Lahore.

I'm really worried about it going wrong.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 4d ago

Finance | معاشی Can an overseas Pakistani open an RDA without having a foreign bank account?

1 Upvotes

​

Hi everyone, I’m a Pakistani currently living in Saudi Arabia and I’m trying to open a Roshan Digital Account (RDA) from abroad.

I tried applying through Meezan Bank, but their application requires me to provide an existing bank account outside Pakistan, including the bank name and IBAN, under the “Existing Bank Details” section.

The problem is:

• I don't currently have a Saudi bank account in my own name.

• I can't open one at the moment because my Saudi residency situation prevents me from doing so.

• I also can't use a relative's account because the form specifically asks for an account that I maintain myself.

• There is no option to skip this section.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Can I open an RDA with another Pakistani bank without already having a foreign bank account? If so, which banks allow this?

I’d appreciate any advice or personal experience. Thanks!


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 4d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Protector stamp required for dependent visa?

0 Upvotes

Hello All

I am currently living in Uk on my wife's visa she has skilled worker visa and I left Pakistan as her dependant. Now recently I have got the job as well but they didn't offer me sponsorship or any visa so just using my dependant status wity right to work. While leaving we did her protector stamp.

We are planning to travel to Pakistan in coming months so do I need protector stamp? As online it asks for copy of employment visa which I don't have.

And on airport what should I tell them if they ask about my job etc?

Thank you.


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 5d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Help regarding E-Protector.

1 Upvotes

Hello. I've been trying to apply online E-Protector. It asks me to "Please Watch the complete video to continue the registration process". I've completed the video numerous times but nothing happens after it's completed. Today, I received rejection because I "Didn't watch the Mandtory Briefing video". Now i'm applying again and stuck at the same point. Can someone guide me as to what to do?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید How can I get married from Pakistan?

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0 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Family Visit Question (From UK)

0 Upvotes

Hello,

Has anyone applied for a Pakistan Family visit visa recently? I’m also travelling with my wife and two children who are also British nationals - during the application process, it asked for their details and passport numbers too. I wanted to see if anyone had applied recently and specifically ask:

How long the visa approval process took?
Does a family visit visa cover all four of us, or do I need to apply separately for each of us?

Thank you


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 7d ago

Stories | داستاں Question? 🙋‍♀️

0 Upvotes

Born and raised in the Middle East, currently working here and living independently. Sometimes I randomly worry that if I ever lose everything here, would Pakistan be my only option?
I’m also someone who may stay single and really values independence. Is it realistically possible for a single woman to build a comfortable, independent life in Pakistan?
I see influencers and professionals there living extremely well, so I’m curious what that life is actually like for normal working women. Is it mostly family money / privilege, or can you genuinely build that lifestyle yourself?


r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 8d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Customs at Multan Airport

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Anyone traveling China to Pakistan (Twin cities)?

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2 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani • • 10d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Is it just me or has Riyadh gone beyond boring for Pakistani residents and expats in general?

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0 Upvotes