r/Monk • u/Richmondnatty • 8d ago
Criminal that Monk was left off NYT top 100 shows of 21st century
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u/Many-Cap-6376 8d ago
I adore Monk as much as the next person but I understand why it didn't make the list.
Most of the shows featured on the list either stood out because of their exceptional writing and performances or simply became cultural phenomena. Sadly Monk never quite reached either of those levels.
The show heavily relied on a repetitive crime-show formula, with Monk's quirks providing most of the humor; it felt very "rinse and repeat" at times.
The writers also didn't focus that much on character development. The main arc (Trudy's death) was stretched across the entire run of the series, therefore Adrian remained largely the same character throughout all 8 seasons. The supporting characters were similarly underdeveloped and didn't have much to do beyond interacting with Monk.
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u/TheDopeMan_ 8d ago
Monk would easily win top 10 character of all time. But the show itself doesn’t compete.
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u/portablebaddie 8d ago
And the plot holes, so many plot holes. It’s an amazing comfort show but critically, not the best
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u/MrmarioRBLX 8d ago
Pardon the curiosity, but could you elaborate on those plot holes?
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u/portablebaddie 8d ago
I think I should’ve said inconsistencies rather than holes but the main one is Trudy and monk’s origin story is all over the place: they met in college, she’s 34 I think when she died “12 years ago” which means she would’ve been 46 if she were alive by the time monk turned 50 in season 8 but she says she had a baby about 15 years before she met monk whilst she was in college… Also i feel like they kinda dumbed him down after the first season maybe first two, he was perfectly capable of using the tv for example in the very old man episode but then by the 100th case, it’s “picture go fast, picture go regular”. And in some episodes it’s established that he lives in an apartment building but in the paperboy episode they leave the paper on his doorstep apparently but they’re outside. I can’t think of any others right now because I’m half asleep but yeah it’s just a bit wishy washy with the details so maybe that’s why. Also they can’t figure out if he’s scared of lifts or not for some reason, and sitting in the backseat of taxis and the details of Trudy’s death are kinda muddy- who was his partner was when it happened? Leland or the other guy from the employee of the month episode and they kinda dropped the whole “bread and butter” thing after a while. But tbf most of these things you don’t really notice until the second or third rewatch (sorry for how long this is)
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u/Farty_mcSmarty 7d ago
Yes, I agree with all of this. The only story line they really should’ve stayed true to is the Trudy and monk timeline. It’s weird that they met in college but then she had a baby 15 years earlier “in college”. Maybe she went to college twice?? Idk but that should’ve been a consistent part of the story and timeline
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u/ragmop 3d ago
Originally Trudy and Monk met as adults - I don't remember which episode but the earliest claim, iirc, is that they were already in their respective careers when they met. Also don't forget Ambrose saying Monk went on dates with women "at 26 years of age."
So the college episode is NOT canon and I will die on this hill. I fume about it daily. (I need distraction.)
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u/Major-Ad-181 8d ago
Am I the only one who didn't know until I was 50 years old that Captain Leland stottlemeyer and Jame Gumb aka buffalo bill are in fact the same person? Also, Monk should be in top 15
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u/alcalaviccigirl 8d ago
I wondered how long before someone mentioned figuring out James gumb became Leland stottlemeyer.
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u/Major-Ad-181 8d ago
Oh wait, Was she a great big fat person? Was when I thought no fucking way and googled Ted Levine. Ole buffalo bill had the Captain's voice. I've watched the entire Monk series 3 separate times and who knows how many random episodes. IDK how many times I've watched silence of the lambs but apparently I was subconsciously blocking that out, lol
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u/katykazi 8d ago
Anytime I see Stottlemeyer go off the handle I say “it puts the lotion on the skin.” Some criminals have him regressing into old habits.
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u/Major-Ad-181 8d ago
Sharona went to her sister's? Probably in a hole in a basement putting the lotion back in the fucking basket
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u/IndustryKlutzy461 8d ago
crazy that i just found that out not too long ago! i felt so foolish!
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u/Major-Ad-181 7d ago
So did I, especially after watching him on both so many times. I was about 50 years old when I had my eureka moment. I'm 56 now and I still think about it quite frequently for some unhealthy mental health reasons
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u/UnionCrafty3748 8d ago
It’s not a serious list. Ted lasso? Really?
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u/Calliesdad20 8d ago
Girls is 14th ,that writer is on serious drugs
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u/katykazi 8d ago
That’s just gross. They got some right. Others seem like they’re posted for clout.
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u/KazanFuurinBis 8d ago
It's a list, which aggregates many opinions. I've began to watch Ted Lasso and after season 1 I've told myself "if the following is as brilliant as firsr season, it will stay in my top 10". The following is pleasant, but not as good.
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u/BlazerAlumni 8d ago
My other issue with the list is that many of the programs are not TV shows. They are streaming only programs. Television and streaming are two entirely different things. They should be classified in different categories.
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u/TheDopeMan_ 8d ago
They’re the same. Both are mediums for the same product. A lot of “tv shows” are on streaming services and extend their life on there.
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u/BlazerAlumni 8d ago
I'm talking about shows that have been exclusively streaming from the very beginning. I just do not see those as television shows. In most instances they have very different audiences. Most programs that ran exclusively on television from beginning to end, are streamed by those who watch them on television. I'm not saying that others haven't picked up on them and enjoyed them since, but I am saying that the majority of those that stream those old programs are older viewers. I am not even talking about programs that were both aired on television and streamed by their networks while they were on. I am saying that programs that were exclusively on TV and not simultaneously ran or only ran on a streaming service should be classified differently. If a program is streaming at any time while it is currently being aired viewers have a choice as to when to watch it. If it is on at 7:00 p.m. and so is something else you like, you can watch the one that streams simultaneously at a later time. If you watched something exclusively on television that means you had to pick it over something else. To me, that shows how much better a show really is then what is streaming. That show that was aired on television may have fewer viewers but those viewers had to pick it over everything else that was owned in that minute. Streamers have a choice of when to watch it. That means they can choose to watch it later so it may not be as important to them as something else. It may have more viewers than that show that aired exclusively on TV but that doesn't necessarily mean it would have had more viewers if you could only watch it at a certain time. Which to me says that's streaming show may not be as good. People tend to pick what they have watched for those lists. You have more opportunities to watch something, they're going to be more people that watch it not because it was the best thing on at the moment but because they had more chances to do so.
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u/TheDopeMan_ 8d ago
I’m not reading an entire book. Give a real example to what you mean.
Edit: also, many of the viewers of these “tv shows” first watches were through streaming. For example, I’ve only know the office and arrested development through streaming. Not regular tv.
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u/BlazerAlumni 8d ago
I didn't say all. I said most. If a TV show aired exclusively on TV and was not also streamed by their Network, that means it had to be picked at the time over something else and was prioritized to watch then in that moment. Shows that are only strained or were both strained and aired on TV by their networks people could choose a time to watch. Those shows are going to have more viewers because they were on at more times. That doesn't necessarily say they were the best show. Status for these kind of lists are picked by whoever had the most viewers. Chose to have the most viewers probably going to be the ones that are on these kinds of lists it include both. The majority of streamers of these old shows that aired exclusively on TV are those that watched them exclusively on TV. Not saying all just most.
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u/TheDopeMan_ 8d ago
As I mentioned provide an example. Many of these “streaming” shows were weekly scheduled programs.
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u/BlazerAlumni 8d ago
ER vs The Pit. Same star even. The Pit technically might have more viewers but a new episode of it is aired many more times during the week for a new episode. ER, you had one chance to watch it new. ER was averaging five times the number of viewers the Pitt has when a new episode is broadcast. But the Pitt gets ranked in the top 100 shows and ER does not because more people can choose when they want to watch it and stream it later. More people were choosing to watch ER immediately over something else.
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u/KazanFuurinBis 8d ago
ER is not ranked because it began in the 90s. The same for The Sopranos and maybe Ally McBeal, Friends and Buffy.
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u/TheDopeMan_ 7d ago
Terrible example.
- ER is from the 90s
- There are more viewers in the world right now then in the 90s.
- All new shows within the last 15 years+ have this capability. South Park releases an episode at a specific date/time and people tune in asap or they watch it later.
- TIVO and recording shows/events used to be popular thing to do.
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u/BlazerAlumni 7d ago
1) ER did not go off the air until 2009. So it was on in the 2000s. 2) + 3) there are more viewers in the now than there were in 2000 or even for that matter 1990. But on the initial viewing when it initially aired ER had a lot higher viewership than the Pitt in spite of the fact there are more viewers now. 4) in spite of having TiVo and DVD recorders there were more initial viewers. Those devices did not log who was recording shows at that moment. Back then the only ones that counted were the ones actually being watched at the time.
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u/Mysterious_Buy4629 8d ago
I wasn't able to view the full list, the page just bugs out for me. But I don't know how they rated the shows, something like Gilmore Girls seems almost like a soap opera, albeit I haven't seen it.
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u/OverjoyedMess 8d ago
It didn't even try to be objective: https://reddit.com/r/television/comments/1wmqory/about_the_ny_times_100_best_tv_shows_of_the_21st/
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u/Richmondnatty 8d ago
Thank you for posting - however, Knowing this makes it seem even crazier it wasn’t in the top 100 - the series won 8 Emmy’s so the industry has already spoken to some extent about the quality of the show
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u/captjackhaddock 7d ago
Creating a best-of list is an inherently subjective task. By what metric would one even be objective? Its not like there’s a standard rubric for Television Goodness, and if you go by pure ratings, it would be all football broadcasts
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u/KazanFuurinBis 8d ago edited 8d ago
I don't think Monk deserve to be in the top 100. Many Cap told exactly what I think earlier. But hey, is it that important ? It's ONE list, with some criteria, that aggregates many opinions but not everybody.
On the other hand, why are RuPaul drag Race and Chappelle's in the list ? Obviously True Detective S1 is better thar other but should you consider as a whole ? In that case we could just take Prison Break S1 which is way better than the other season ?
Why can we accept currenlty running series like Severance ? Why the OA is in the list, as it was cancelled and we won't know the end ?
If BoJack Horseman is accepted why not accept japanimation show, like Attack on Titan (which I find average, but many people love that more than Naruto, Bleach or One Piece) ?
And why this serie has a better place than the other ? And why this one is not included ? And this one ? And why are there only a few 3 non-US series ? I know that The Office US is different that The Office UK but still do they deserve to appear both ?
Do your own list, and put Monk in it.
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u/kuda26 8d ago
Monk is criminally underrated. A lot of people don't realize how brilliant it is.