r/ModernMagic • u/Fragmentsans • 5d ago

Deck Discussion I was wondering if I could get some advice

I wanted to build a deck around empower jace but i've never worked with blue before. So all I have, is this so far.

Duplicating spells and infinite turns... i was wondering if there's anything I can do to make this faster since I don't mind cutting certain things out.

Ink to the deck

https://archidekt.com/decks/26875050/update

5 Upvotes

78% Upvoted

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7

u/Tjarem 5d ago

No reason to be mono blue and u can just play most of this in standart. I would try it there since this is to slow and vulenarble.

1

u/Fragmentsans 5d ago

I mostly just have the artifacts there. For infinite turns. But since i've never done blue, I don't mind removing it. If I can speed up the main mechanic.

Winning with jace reality sculptor and way of the cryomancer for spell duplication 

1

u/Fragmentsans 5d ago

That's fine it's mostly just for fun since me and my father usually stick to modern or standard.

4

u/KingxCrimsonx 5d ago

You will probably die before you can ever cast 5 mana Jace. I dont think that card is modern playable. The combo decks kill turn 3-4 and the same problem with aggro/prowess.

You would need a healthy bit of counter magic to even survive long enough to do your combo. Basically combo decks are now turn 4 at the latest.

I think your idea is probably dead on arrival. Maybe see what spike thinks?

1

u/Lectrys 5d ago

Spike came up with this BUG Kasmina - Jace's Machinations deck first for abusing Empower Jace: https://moxfield.com/decks/VNmsxSHbU0C82uXVp331dw

I don't quite think BUG is the right direction even for a more controlling build: among the best reasons to splash black are getting targeted discard to rip out Consign to Memory from opposing hands to protect Thassa's Oracle (although you can gamble with Otawara-ing Thoracle next turn and replaying it, which is part of why I don't think splashing black is so important). I also think Spike isn't playing enough cheap blue legends to make Mox Amber viable ramp or protect the combo better against removing Kasmina in response to Enter the Infinite (although you can gamble with playing Thoracle next turn or it being late-game). White is the overall better colour for Loyal Tutor as additional cheap Kasmina tutors, T3feri to protect the combo and bounce hate pieces, and Orim's Chant (in the board) to deny Consign and be disruptive. White comes with pretty good removal spells anyway.

1

u/KingxCrimsonx 5d ago

All reasonable points. But what happens when they counterspell or force of negation your win condition. This deck needs at least 4 force of negation is my biggest thought for you

1

u/Lectrys 5d ago

Maybe 4 counterspells between maindeck and sideboard, although there are already some plans embedded in: * T3feri prevents the combo from being interrupted by counterspells (or Bolts) * Orim's Chant post-Enter the Infinite draws out counterspells in response and prevents counterspells if it resolves * If you boarded in Jace, Wielder of Mysteries and they counter that, joke's on you or you cast Thoracle next turn * If they Spell Snare Thoracle, take a mental note to board in counterspells (or try maindeck Bala Ged Recovery or something like that) and/or Jace Wielder * If they counter EtI, they could have countered either combo piece instead; you're in for a long slog either way and prepare for Plan B * If they Vexing Bauble EtI, you should have blown it up beforehand * If you're on black, you know exactly what to targeted discard before comboing off

1

u/vecna216 Release the Twin 5d ago

https://moxfield.com/decks/HtFc4SIgAkmm-WnrOmcqvA

Here is my list that I am testing

3

u/Lectrys 5d ago

If you want to build a deck around Empower Jace, I think the [[Kasmina, Enigma Sage]] - [[Jace's Machinations]] combo is sadly the best way to do so. Both combo pieces cost only 3 mana, and you don't need critical mass. [[Avatar of Burgeoning Echoes]] with enough fetchlands (~10-12) does a reasonable job of imitating Jace's Machinations, blocks fine, and draws away Bolts. [[Theorist's Sanctum]] can be crammed in very well as a 1-of.

The most compact win con you can fit in there is probably 1-2 [[Enter the Infinite]], 1 [[Thassa's Oracle]], 3 [[Mox Amber]], and enough cheap blue legends to make Mox Amber actual ramp (~6-8).

Spamming tokens of varying sizes with Kasmina slapping her -X on Empower Jace tokens is actually a reasonable Plan B - thus why I'm suggesting this build. I recently swapped the 1-of finisher walker to [[Jace, Reality Sculptor]] for that reason.

Needing to reach -12 for [[Ichormoon Gauntlet]] is a lot less realistic than needing to reach -8 for Kasmina's ult, and I don't think copying cantrips and Jace's Machinations is enough abuse. Jace, Reality Sculptor getting attacked down quite easily if he dares +1 doesn't help.

1

u/Fragmentsans 5d ago

I do like the sound of that. Especially since never used blue before so it's all a lot of new territory.

I just we need to figure out how many copies of each i'm gonna be slipping in to keep everything balanced.

Since I have been out of the format for such a long time 

1

u/Cultural_Train_9948 4d ago

Are the Mox ambers actually needed? I saw spike had them in his list but they always look so dead

What are your thoughts on this band control version I made?

Planeswalkers- 8
3 kasmina, enigma sage 1UG
3 Teferi, time raveler 1UW
1 Teferi, hero of dominaria 3UW
1 Jace the mind sculptor 2UU

Spells- 31
3 prismatic ending xW
2 wrath of the skies xWW
1 spell snare U
2 consult the star charts 1U
2 enter the infinite
3 glittering wish GW
4 jaces machination 2U
2 brainsurge 2U
1 pact of negation 3UU/0
2 force of negation 1UU
2 sink into stupor 1UU
1 Lorien revealed 3UU
3 orims chant W
3 Counterspell UU

Creatures- 2
1 thassas oracle UU
1 snapcaster mage 1U
1 witch enchanter 3W

Lands- 21
1 Breeding pool
3 flooded strand
1 forest
2 hallowed fountain
1 hedge maze
2 island
4 misty rainforest
1 plains
1 temple garden
1 theorists sanctum
4 windswept heath

Sideboard for glittering wish
1 supreme verdict
1 sphinx’s revelation
1 Teferi, time raveler
1 kasmina, enigma sage
3 consign to memory
1 meddling mage
1 detention sphere
1 Ashiok dream render
1 dovins veto
1 Lavinia, azorius renegade
2 wrath of the skies

1

u/Lectrys 3d ago

Mox Amber or other free mana is mandatory for Enter the Infinite builds (which both yours and Spike's are); a lot of decks will pressure you to combo off on Turn 3-4, one mana short of casting Kasmina + Thassa's Oracle otherwise. Mox Amber also greatly speeds up games where you end up casting Jace's Machinations and Kasmina in the same turn - 6 mana is still much easier to hit than 8 mana.

Your build strangely looks part turbo with the additional Kasmina tutors, part not turbo with the only redundancy for Jace's Machinations being Theorist's Sanctum, which I've found too slow in practice but very free to sneak into the deck; I'm actually prone to ditching Glittering Wish in your more controlling build as a result. I'm surprised Spike's Bant list isn't playing one of the best reasons to go Bant: [[Loyal Tutor]], the 1-mana planeswalker tutor.

1

u/Cultural_Train_9948 3d ago edited 3d ago

Hey this advice is wonderful! I made some edits based off what you said.

I made it sans black so I can do an experimental include of Wrenn and six and flashback.

I also added a single copy of loyal tutor and am only playing 3 copies of kasmina (she’s so bad and I don’t want a bunch of copies of her in my hand)

The list is like 69 cards and idk what to cut. Which 9 cards would you get rid of? I’m trying to make this a control shell with the kasmina combo in it.

Planeswalkers- 10
3 kasmina, enigma sage 1UG
3 Teferi, time raveler 1UW
1 Teferi, hero of dominaria 3UW
1 Jace the mind sculptor 2UU
2 Wrenn and six

Spells- 31
3 prismatic ending xW
2 wrath of the skies xWW
1 spell snare U
2 flashback R
2 consult the star charts 1U
2 enter the infinite
4 jaces machination 2U
2 brainsurge 2U
1 pact of negation 3UU/0
2 force of negation 1UU
2 sink into stupor 1UU
1 Lorien revealed 3UU
3 orims chant W
3 Counterspell UU
1 loyal tutor W
1 dress down 1U

3 Mox amber 0

Creatures- 3
1 thassas oracle UU
1 snapcaster mage 1U
1 witch enchanter 3W

Lands- 21
1 Breeding pool
3 flooded strand
2 hallowed fountain
1 hedge maze
2 island
1 Otawara, soaring city
1 field of ruin
1 raugrin triome (the only red land)
3 misty rainforest
1 plains
1 temple garden
1 theorists sanctum
3 windswept heath

1

u/Lectrys 3d ago edited 3d ago

I'm concerned about the stability of the red splash, especially since Wrenn and Six likes being castable on Turn 2 and your build currently cannot provide that, but if you want to keep the red splash, ditch these 9 cards: * The 1 Dress Down: I find red decks with more than 4 burn cards (e.g. Prowess, RW Energy) to be a lot better at preventing the combo than decks with Urza's Saga in them (I think that's the primary Dress Down target?); you can fight stack wars with Goryo's and other reanimator decks * The 1 Pact of Negation: Poor counterspell in the grind game, does not prevent Consign to Memory on Thassa's Oracle from working due to its Replicate, cast Orim's Chant mid-combo instead to fend off counterspells and Consign on Thoracle * 1 Flashback: Does not let you cast Enter the Infinite from the graveyard for free with the Kasmina ult, probably better off targeting a haymaker, that haymaker may not be Jace's Machinations * The 1 Field of Ruin: Destabilizes your mana base overall due to tapping for colourless and your only basics being Island and Plains, replace with Boseiju, Who Endures if you want the LD because also being able to hit hate cards like Vexing Bauble/Pithing Needle/High Noon/Trinisphere is worth the even further mana base destabilization, ditch a Sink into Stupor or the Lorien Revealed if you make the swap since 25 effective lands are 1 too many for 60 cards * The 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor: 2 Brainsurge is fine for putting back EtI, Jace TMS is pretty vulnerable to burn unless he +2's immediately (though drawing burn may have value), sorcery speed and 4 mana hurt, he can't remove the nastiest hate cards unlike Teferi Hero; you can opt to ditch 1 Brainsurge instead if you want to keep the Loyal Tutor flexibility, but this is rough with only 1 Loyal Tutor * 1 Orim's Chant: If you want to play with all the cool toys, I'm afraid this is the price you have to pay; this is pretty good at stalling out a turn so don't go too low on them * 1 Force of Negation: Very good at stalling for time and fending off opposing combos, very poor at protecting your combo * 1 Mox Amber: You're on a more controlling build, so you're more likely to combo with excess mana open; this is a cut I am reluctant to make but you have to pay a price * 1 Prismatic Ending or the 1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria: If you want to play with all the cool toys, I'm afraid this is the price you have to pay; Wrath is pretty good at mopping up RW Energy so don't ditch that instead