r/HistoryMemes • u/Nyctfall • 10h ago
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u/CielMorgana0807 9h ago
Did I miss something? Don’t remember seeing it in this sub.
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u/Nyctfall 9h ago
After seeing things like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/s/fa1sJUo26I
I was Like, "REALLY?!" Literally one of the most egregious wars of continental US expansionism in history, and it's being glorified!?
They were illegal invasions to bring slavery into Mexico and steal even more indigenous land, like from the Caddo Nation and Osage Nation. Polk supported Andrew Jackson's Indian Removal Act in 1830. The inspiration for Adolf Hitler to imitate in eastern Europe with the Holocaust, saying: "the Volga must become our Mississippi". Polk even tried to bribe Santa Anna into staging a coup d'etat, and acting as a puppet to sell out Mexico to the US!
This is what the racist mentality going around looked like:
[We] have never dreamt of incorporating into our Union any but the Caucasian race the free white race. To incorporate Mexico, would be the very first instance of the kind of incorporating an Indian race; for more than half of the Mexicans are Indians, and the other is composed chiefly of mixed tribes. I protest against such a union as that! Ours, sir, is the Government of a white race. The great misfortunes of Spanish America are to be traced to the fatal error of placing these colored races on an equality with the white race….
Are we to associate with ourselves as equals, companions, and fellow-citizens, the Indians and mixed race of Mexico? [Mr. President], I would consider such a thing fatal to our institutions….
We make a great mistake, sir, when we suppose that all people are capable of self-government. We are anxious to force free government on all; and I see that it has been urged in a very respectable quarter, that it is the mission of this country to spread civil and religious liberty over all the world, and especially over this continent. It is a great mistake. None but people advanced to a very high state of moral and intellectual improvement are capable, in a civilized state, of maintaining free government.
How is this in any way acceptable with ICE and the CIA killing innocent civilians by the thousands right now?! From Cornelius P. Rhoads experimenting on Puerto Ricans, to the KGC-inspired filibusters like William Walker, to the CIA coup governments, to the Nazi-inspired fascist genocides like Carlos Castillo Armas. This horrid glorification of the hundreds of "Manifest Destiny" and "Monroe Doctrine" genocides is revolting.
See: James K. Polk, John C. Calhoun - Wikipedia, All of Mexico Movement, Knights of the Golden Circle, Foreign interventions by the United States.
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u/FanaticalBuckeye 8h ago
all that over one mediocre meme
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u/Nyctfall 8h ago
It's 180 years of this.
From Manifest Destiny genocide to MAGAots, they are literally the worst.
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u/Wolfish_Jew 9h ago
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
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u/identified_meat On tour 9h ago
It’s this fucking tankie chud again
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u/Nyctfall 8h ago
My context comment got downvoted. It's in reference to a post on here recently.
Despite saying the same opinions as Abraham Lincoln or Benjamin Franklin, apparently this sub likes slavery and hates egalitarians...
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u/Odd_Buy_2646 8h ago
This sub hates tankies
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u/Nyctfall 7h ago
Dude, there almost aren't even any Tankies on this sub. Even by a loose definition. There are barely any communists...
I've seen people say they're glad genocides happened...
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u/Moniguess2 10h ago
Also the Mexican American war was viewed negatively at the time by the soldiers who were participating. This was early in American military development so many soldiers were given improperly made uniforms because they didn’t have a standard of quality for factories and the jackets / tents / uniforms they made. When soldiers in the American military reached the more southern parts of Mexico and the eastern jungles along the coastline, the American uniforms would literally fall apart at the seams because of the water damage from rain and crossing rivers. Tents would fall apart at the slightest weather change, and soldiers would go awol either to ravage the local Mexican population or to straight up desert from the army.
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u/GSilky 10h ago
This is weird. Never heard of a genocide during the Mexican-American war.
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u/sw337 Definitely not a CIA operator 9h ago
America involved = Genocide to certian online types.
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u/DeadWaterBed 9h ago
As for explicit genocidal actions perpetrated in the course of the Mexican-American war, I'm not familiar enough with the history to know one way or the other, but I'm not personally aware of such a thing happening.
But by the officially recognized definition of genocide, the US has engaged in many genocides against many native tribes, including those who lived in the lands the US took from Mexico.
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u/thebanfunctionsucks 9h ago
The Native American genocide was ongoing and this war resulted in more natives being within America's borders.
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u/Primary_Addition5494 9h ago
You say that like the Natives weren't suffering the same treatment at the hands of the Mexican Empire.
Mexico literally fought an 80 year war with the Apache.
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u/thebanfunctionsucks 9h ago
No, I don't say that as if. The fact that other people committed genocides changes nothing about the fact that America committed a genocide and I don't know why this subreddit refuses to acknowledge this without engaging in whataboutism.
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u/Schwifty0V0 Then I arrived 8h ago edited 8h ago
Because America is perfect but if another country is even more perfect America is factually even more perfecter.
Most Americans don’t believe in the concept of class consciousness or how those that create the laws are the creators of the cultural and economic makeup of their country rather than the people breaking rocks, cashiering at the register, or tilling the land that also contribute to their nation.
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u/GSilky 9h ago
That seems tenuous.
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u/thebanfunctionsucks 9h ago
How? American expansion allowed for the scope of the genocide to expand. Just like how the Holocaust was extended to Poland when the Germans took over.
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u/GSilky 9h ago
Well, when Hitler intentionally invaded Poland, and the rest, to get more Jews, he inadvertently coined the term "genocide". To take this motivation and apply it to people who did not exhibit any signs of sharing a similar motivation, a century before mind you, is not what history is for. The USA did not conquer territory to get more people to kill intentionally.
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u/thebanfunctionsucks 9h ago
It did though, the motivations were literally identical. Hitler directly cited "manifest destiny" as inspiration for his own "lebensraum." Murdering people was a by-product of wanting to take their land.
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u/GSilky 8h ago
Again, we are working backwards, trying to apply something that didn't exist until Hitler did it, to peoples actions that don't fit most of the definition at any given time. The Holocaust was not some iteration of a time honored pursuit, it was unique. To universalize it to fit things that did not make people come up with a new term for describing it is erroneous and disingenuous.
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u/thebanfunctionsucks 8h ago
It might not have existed at the time, but there's no reason we can't use the concept to analyze the events in a new light. In fact, that's entirely the purpose of historical analysis. If we didn't retroactively apply new ideas to history and re-interpret it, we'd still be stuck with Edward Gibbon and his "the Roman Empire was peak civilization and Christianity fucked it all up" analysis. Historiography revised this view using more modern understandings of the Roman world, retroactively applying concepts like "economic inflation" and "women should have rights" to paint a more accurate pictute of Roman life and the reasons why the Empire ultimately fell, and I think that's a good thing.
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u/GSilky 8h ago
No, we don't reconfigure the past into new ideas, that is what history research is intended to prevent. We no longer follow Gibbon because we have far more sources than he ever had, and new information colors our knowledge. We can use our English terms from today to describe the past, but that is not the same as taking a term that was created in response to a unique event and applying it to events that are impossible to have the evidence for the term applying. At no point in American history was their a genocidal policy by definition of the term. There was mass death, from disease before germ theory. There was rounding people up, but it was piecemeal and incomplete, no tribe being entirely relegated to the reservation, American citizens were exempt, as well as people who didn't want to take the supposed deal. There was an attempt to commit "cultural genocide", except most of it was done by private entities and didn't apply across the board at the same time. Loosely applying a term to things that don't fit the term is not illuminating, it's propaganda.
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u/Slutty_Intention2 10h ago
"we have a rule to never make memes on empires that did [insert evil thing]"
History memes relating to every empire: "Mr stark, I don't feel so good. (Fades away)"
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u/Cosmic_Meditator777 9h ago
oh please, go post a meme making fun of the trail of tears and see how long you last.
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u/File_Beneficial 10h ago
Pretty sure the Spanish got their first
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u/Lonely-Tennis2171 9h ago
Don’t worry they glorify that one too.
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u/StepOnMeNangong 9h ago
downvoted but 100% correct, like this sub doesn’t have a running joke of Spaniards being horny for (read: systematically raping) Native women
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u/FitButterscotch4062 10h ago
Let’s not act like the US doesn’t get shit on more than every single other country in the world on Reddit.
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u/thebanfunctionsucks 9h ago
It also gets praised more than every single other country. This is just a consequence of being a global hegemon.
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u/Ynwe 9h ago
Hi, German here. Get in line behind me, the Indians, Chinese and a few others.
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u/thebanfunctionsucks 9h ago
Conservatives just love it when the country their identity is tied to is criticized. It lets them play victim while simultaneously decrying others for having a "victim mentality."
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u/VirtualKnowledge7057 9h ago edited 9h ago
look i don't think the post your critiquing is completely invalid (although i strongly suspect it was more designed to be ironic and funny.)
what i noticed here im interested in is
i've noticed a trend that on almost every post of yours i've seen, people who say stuff you agree with get a reward.
and when i say every one i mean every one.
meaning you patrol the threads to give rewards to every single person who agrees with you
and reddit rewards cost REAL MONEY.
how much REAL FLESH AND BLOOD MONEY have you spent on FUCKING REDDIT.
andddd op blocked me.
they were willing to call me a literal nazi facist because i said their meme was unfunny months back but this is the breaking point
what an oversensitive crybaby
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u/Schwifty0V0 Then I arrived 10h ago
Whoever thought a government derived from the Empire that the sun never set on was going to be peaceful wasn’t paying much attention
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u/InsideHousing4965 What, you egg? 10h ago
Mexico was basically ruled by the local Spanish elite: mostly wealthy landowners who didn't give a damn about the locals (a lot hasn't changed).
It was also filled with revolutionary ideas, multiple political factions, guerrillas, militias, local governors who didn't like the government...
It was basically Spain before one of it's multiple civil wars... on drugs.
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u/Awkward-Evidence-215 9h ago
“Permit me to say to the country, that our political horizon is overcast; ‘clouds and darkness are round about us;’ impenetrable darkness shuts the future from our view. Foreign war and internal strife, animosities and heartburnings, indicate that this nation is doomed to suffer the just penalty incurred by the oppression, outrage, and crime which we have perpetrated upon our fellow men. If God deals out to offending nations retributive justice, we cannot escape his displeasure. Yet, when the just penalty of our transgressions shall have been visited upon us; when thousands more of our brethren shall have fallen victims to this unholy war, and tens of thousands more, widows and orphans, shall weep and mourn under bereavement; when the immorality brought upon our nation, by this war, shall have tortured the hearts of hundreds of thousands of mothers and wives and daughters, and the righteous punishment for our transgressions shall have been meted out to us; our rulers, our legislators, will acknowledge that ‘righteousness alone exalteth a nation’ while ‘sin is a reproach to any people.’” - Joshua R. Giddings
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u/thebanfunctionsucks 9h ago edited 9h ago
What an unusual thing for this subreddit. People in this sub totally don't just use vague historical "analysis" to shit on modern countries.
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u/ChristianLW3 9h ago
I’m guessing the bottom text is you phrasing the American conquest of Texas in the worst way possible
Honestly, I pity the indigenous Americans in Texas because both the Mexican empire and USA wanted to either destroy or subjugate them
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u/BrainDamage2029 9h ago edited 8h ago
Yeah he’s interesting he said Mexican as that’s really a case of “you’ve taken what I’ve already rightfully stolen!”
Texas and California were only sparsely populated by Mexico via a colonialist plantation giveaway to the nobility. Actually there’s a very solid case to be made most of the Californios were pretty okay with the transfer to the US as they were essentially being hung out to dry by the Mexican government with little resources or attempts to connect them via logistics and communications. The main road route from San Diego to San Francisco wasn’t built and maintained by the Mexican government…it was built and maintained by the Catholic Church.
If you want to bring in US treatment of the natives that’s a whole other story but you’d have to grapple with the fact the Mexican Ranchero system was already using them as slave labor in all but name.
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u/Silver_Middle_7240 9h ago
euro does something horrorific
"Well remember that time in 1847 when America..."
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u/dragar99 9h ago
Great another hidden account that sees a subreddit and thinks. This sub is not shitting on America enough.
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u/Fancy_Chips Definitely not a CIA operator 9h ago
The problem with the Mexican-American war is that both sides are kinda dumb. On the one hand you have people pretending the US was completely faultless, either from defending Texas (acting like it wasnt a puppet state) or because Mexico shot first (the US shouldnt have been fucking around in the borderlands). On the other hand you have people pretending that Mexico somehow had rightful claim on the territory (the Navajo, Apache, and Pueblo would like a fucking word) and was completely helpless in the US's totally unprovoked assault (Mexico was another imperializing force who was stirring shit up).
Let's not pretend either side we le wholesome chungus here.
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u/ozymandais13 9h ago
If Santa Anna wasn't a psychopath theyed have so much political capital
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u/Awesometom100 8h ago
Yeah the Texan war of Independence for instance is justifiable because when you look at the "banning slavery" act as reddit likes calling it, he did that but it also includes oh little things like Removal of Freedom of the Press and indefinite suspensions of Elections. You know, the little things.
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u/President-Lonestar 7h ago
Let’s also not forget that America originally wanted to buy California and New Mexico before resorting to violence.
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u/IlikeGeekyHistoryRSA Kilroy was here 10h ago
americans being americans? unsurprising. this is obv bad double standards
although given your post history, there's a 50:50 chance this post is ideologically motivated over you not being allowed to post things that fit your ideological agenda, rather than an actual concern for hypocricy on the subreddit
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u/Birb-Person Definitely not a CIA operator 9h ago
Mexico didn’t start the Mexican-American War, America did when President Polk ordered troops to enter the disputed zone between the former Republic of Texas and Mexico
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u/President-Lonestar 7h ago
As far as America was concerned, that disputed territory was their rightful claim. If Mexico did the same thing, then America would’ve likely engaged them either way.
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u/Birb-Person Definitely not a CIA operator 6h ago
“If”, Meaning they didn’t
“If I got assaulted by my neighbor, I have a right to myself” is not a valid argument for why I should be allowed to attack my neighbor right now
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u/HistoryMemes-ModTeam 35m ago
Your post/comment has been removed for the following rules violations:
Rule 3: Discrimination and Abuse
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u/DeadWaterBed 9h ago
Texas may have considered itself independent, but to Mexico, it was a bunch of yanks trying to steal a chunk of their territory.
Just look at a map of US territory before vs after the Mexican-American war. It's self-evident that we just invaded and took a big chunk of their land.
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u/KingZaneTheStrange 6h ago
OP, I think we glorify all empires equally and you just hate America. Mexico also had slavery and genocide but I guess you don't care about that or mesoamerican imperialism.
You asked "are we serious?". No. Meme are generally not serious and are supposed to be funny
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u/Nyctfall 5h ago
I think we glorify all empires equally
Someone making the same meme as the one I linked, but with Stalin instead of Polk. Would get the comments filled "Tankie!" or "Die communists!" or "Another Holodomor apologist!", etc... at best. It's very disingenuous to say they're treated equally. Because there isn't any data to back it up. Because it's not even vaguely true.
Mexico also had slavery and genocide but I guess you don't care about that or mesoamerican imperialism.
I literally mentioned it in the post title. "Red"... as in, Oklahoma meaning "red people"...
The US and Mexico intentionally didn't recognize our land claims. But the US still invaded the Mexican government and the territory they controlled. Trust me, I'm one of the few people who even know about the Cherokee territory in New Spain/Mexico/Texas, let alone have family that used to live there.
you just hate America
I'm Native American, African-American, and Latin American. Why do I have to add hundreds of sources, just for racists and apologists to baselessly claim that I'm the ahistorical one anyway. Literally the only defense they have is USIA and McCarthyist propaganda tactics. They literally see things like Trump or the complete and total genocide of multiple tribes (like the Powhatan), and then think they're somehow the good guys. You're kidding me, right?!
Genocide denial isn't allowed on this sub, so I'm not going to deny it no matter what "White" people say. The USA does not get a free pass to commit genocides. Especially not without even as much as an acknowledgement. That's demonic!
You asked "are we serious?". No. Meme are generally not serious and are supposed to be funny
As in, "no making fun of America. Because 'Murica GUD!!!1!1!!1!1!" You can't joke about the US. Especially not in any way that meaningfully talks the 250 year genocides.
But the same meme about the USSR? Updoots... Because "C0mMuNiSM!!1!!1!" or something, I guess...
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u/KingZaneTheStrange 5h ago
I'm literally Oklahoman but you don't care about that or my experience. Nobody is denying genocide just because it's not mentioned in every single post
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u/Nyctfall 3h ago
I'm literally Oklahoman but you don't care about that or my experience.
I'm not familiar with that tribe. Or are you just using broad terms?
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u/KingZaneTheStrange 3h ago
I'm not doxxing myself bro 😂😂😂
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u/Nyctfall 2h ago
Fair enough.
I'm mostly Cherokee and Miskito.
They took New Echota from us, almost everything east of the Mississippi river besides Qualla, Arkansas west of the Mississippi river, Indian Territory, the State of Sequoyah, even now with what they're doing to Keetoowah Band.
How am I expected to be okay with any of this, when they're the reason most of my female relatives are victims of sex-crimes and they stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from me?!And it that wasn't enough, they were busy with the Iran-Contra Affair and the CIA destabilizing Nicaragua and Costa Rica...
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u/KingZaneTheStrange 2h ago
Look, I'm not saying that America is free from criticism. However you spreading misinformation about American history and getting this offended by a fucking meme doesn't help anyone
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u/NotNonbisco Decisive Tang Victory 9h ago
I cant send pictures here so here's a link I guess
https://media.tenor.com/Qgh0FOaPw7AAAAAe/what-is-he-talking-about.png
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u/Sea-Huckleberry8971 9h ago
Fun little factoid for ya: Japan doesn't teach of their conquest of the Asian Pacific. According to their text books (paraphrased) one day out of the blue the US just started bombing us.
Any mention of the atrocities they committed across China, Philippines and other nations in a text book and the book does not get added to the approved school book list.
Yes now days there's the Internet, back in 1951 there was no Internet so yeah. It's pretty normal to either view it as your nation is in the right, even if it's not, or to not teach about it at all.
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u/DonnieMoistX 9h ago
That’s not true. Japan teaches that it began the war with the US by attacking Pearl Harbor.
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u/Nyctfall 10h ago
After seeing things like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/s/fa1sJUo26I
Like, REALLY?! Literally one of the most egregious wars of continental US expansionism in history, and it's being glorified!? THIS IS DISGUSTING "MANIFEST DESTINY" PROPAGANDA!
Literally how can we tolerate this level of racist propaganda. To the point of praising freaking genocides that have continued to this day!?
They were illegal invasions to bring slavery into Mexico and steal even more indigenous land, like from the Caddo Nation and Osage Nation. Polk supported Andrew Jackson's Indian Removal Act in 1830. The inspiration for Adolf Hitler to imitate in eastern Europe with the Holocaust, saying: "the Volga must become our Mississippi"! Polk even tried to bribe Santa Anna into staging a coup d'etat, and acting as a puppet to sell out Mexico to the US!
This is what the racist mentality going around looked like:
[We] have never dreamt of incorporating into our Union any but the Caucasian race the free white race. To incorporate Mexico, would be the very first instance of the kind of incorporating an Indian race; for more than half of the Mexicans are Indians, and the other is composed chiefly of mixed tribes. I protest against such a union as that! Ours, sir, is the Government of a white race. The great misfortunes of Spanish America are to be traced to the fatal error of placing these colored races on an equality with the white race….
Are we to associate with ourselves as equals, companions, and fellow-citizens, the Indians and mixed race of Mexico? [Mr. President], I would consider such a thing fatal to our institutions….
We make a great mistake, sir, when we suppose that all people are capable of self-government. We are anxious to force free government on all; and I see that it has been urged in a very respectable quarter, that it is the mission of this country to spread civil and religious liberty over all the world, and especially over this continent. It is a great mistake. None but people advanced to a very high state of moral and intellectual improvement are capable, in a civilized state, of maintaining free government.
How is this in any way acceptable with ICE and the CIA killing innocent civilians by the thousands right now?! From Cornelius P. Rhoads experimenting on Puerto Ricans, to the KGC-inspired filibusters like William Walker, to the CIA coup governments, to the Nazi-inspired fascist genocides like Carlos Castillo Armas. This horrid glorification of the hundreds of "Manifest Destiny" and "Monroe Doctrine" genocides is revolting!
See: James K. Polk, John C. Calhoun - Wikipedia, All of Mexico Movement, Knights of the Golden Circle, Foreign interventions by the United States.
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u/HistoryMemes-ModTeam 32m ago
Your post has been removed for the following rules violations:
Rule 6: Genocide and Atrocity Denial
These include, but are not limited to; Holodomor, the Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, Japanese war crimes, the Tiananmen Square massacre, and the ethnic cleansing of the Uighurs. Doing so will result in an instant permaban. Hateful historical revisionists are not welcome.
Additionally comparing atrocities to one another (AKA Genocide/Atrocity Olympics) in order to try and make an atrocity, genocide, or otherwise look less worse by comparison will result in a permanent ban.
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u/KingZaneTheStrange 6h ago
Mexico had slavery and genocide LONG before the Americans showed up and the Mexican-American War was more akin to a land dispute than a full on invasion
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u/Nyctfall 5h ago
Did MAGA proscribe that response, or something? Literally the exact opposite of what every source on the subject says.
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u/KingZaneTheStrange 5h ago edited 4h ago
I'm not MAGA. Unless you think anyone who disagrees with you is MAGA. I would check my sources if I were you because they're clearly lying. Unless the Cholula massacre and the Velasco Treaties mean nothing to you
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u/Nyctfall 3h ago
I'm saying you're using Whataboutism.
I know that Mexico has been committing genocides.It's like hearing "Nazi Germany invaded Ukraine and Poland", and then responding with "but Pilsudski invaded Ukraine too". Like, fricking of course! But that's not what we're talking about! What the US did to us was far worse that what we dealt with in Mexico.
The Mexican-American War very much had genocidal intent, just look at my sources. Hitler would struggle to be more racist!
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u/KingZaneTheStrange 1h ago edited 1h ago
It's not whataboutsim if you literally said that America "brought slavery, rape and genocide to Mexico" when in reality Mexico did not need our help with that. That makes it look like you think slavery and genocide only exist in Mexico because of US involvement which is false
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u/Relevant-Scheme3687 10h ago
You see, its genocide if others do it, but a justified response if USA do it!
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u/Wookieman222 10h ago
A lot of countries don't even talk about theirs or in some cases purposely erase and make it illegal to talk about them.
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u/thebanfunctionsucks 9h ago
Good ole' whataboutism, almost comforting to know this will be in the comments under any post criticizing America's past.
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u/funnyname12369 Hello There 9h ago
And that bares on American atrocities how? They're less evil cause they're allowed to talk about them, and half of them openly admire/support them?
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u/Loose_Holiday_8503 10h ago
Of course the illiterate people are downvoting you 🥀😭☠️
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u/itsyaboiWolfieG 10h ago
Can’t forget the almighty “/s” for people who can’t do the tiniest bit of critical thinking
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u/Relevant-Scheme3687 1h ago
I genuinely don't understand the use of /s, are people that dumb to understand sarcasm?
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u/funnyname12369 Hello There 9h ago
Well this sub is full to the brim of morally bankrupt people who will always defend their nations no matter what. It isn't a good place for actual history, just patriotic circlejerking
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u/ComradeHenryBR Taller than Napoleon 10h ago
"Remember the Alamo"
Yeah, I remember the Alamo as the day the Americans took a BIG FAT L, RIP BOZO
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u/Argentalis 10h ago
Texas wasn't even part of the USA yet. The Battle of the Alamo took place in 1836, and the USA annexed Texas in 1845. It is exclusively a Texan loss.
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u/sw337 Definitely not a CIA operator 10h ago
Okay, then what happened?
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u/ComradeHenryBR Taller than Napoleon 10h ago
Then Mexico lost 50% of it's territory to an illegal invasion by an imperial slave state
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u/HistoryMemes-ModTeam 31m ago
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u/thebanfunctionsucks 9h ago
America started it by annexing Mexican territory. No other conflict is considered to be started by a country responding to an invasion of its terrutory.
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u/himenofucker67 10h ago
You just know this guy is a mexican with how much he talk shit about texas
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4h ago edited 27m ago
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u/HistoryMemes-ModTeam 31m ago
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u/BasedAustralhungary 9h ago
Genocide is good when those are my boys doing it, if its about other people it's bad
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u/Classic-Work-8415 9h ago
they cry bloody murder at stuff like holocaust or the armenian genocide yet any post about the native american genocide also gets downvoted into fucking oblivion
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u/Starmute-ss13 8h ago
Oh man guys we're not shiting on Americans hard enough let's pump those anti American memes out /s
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u/HistoryMemes-ModTeam 41m ago
Your post has been removed for the following rules violations:
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