r/Borderlands2 • u/D-I-L-F • 23h ago
❔ [ Question ] Does Krieg Take More Damage?
For context, my project for the last six months or so has been completing NVHM deathless with each character individually. The order I went in was Gaige, Axton, Maya, Zero, Sal, and last but certainly least... Krieg.
The first win took two months or so, the next four took a combined two months or so, Krieg alone took about 2 months. Why am I saying all this? Well, getting 5 deathless completions gives you a very very good feel of the game, especially how much damage you should be taking, how fast you should be going down, etc.
Now it goes without saying that Krieg has shit survival perks and his action skill does nothing to save you if you're close to going down (until level 31 ffs), but that's not what I'm talking about. I got all 5 of the other characters done within a 3 month span, including 3 winning runs back to back, then progress ground to a screeching halt with Krieg. I was dying at level 6. Level 10. Took like 15 attempts when I had already mastered the run.
Something about him, even when perks and action skills are barely relevant, resulted in the muscle memory I had acquired over all the runs... Getting me killed. Like the numbers I was seeing on my shield and health bar weren't giving me accurate information about how close I was to death.
Am I gaslighting myself, or does he take more damage for some reason?
I'm just going to go ahead and add a little extra detail here, for everyone who wants to come in and say "Gee mister, have you considered that you don't know how to play him?" I beat the game deathless with him. I played as him for two months straight. I know how he works. He feels like he's slagged.
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u/ididitforthemoney2 23h ago
makes me wonder if he had a bigger hitbox than the others
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u/D-I-L-F 23h ago
That was a hypothesis of mine as well! So he's obviously the tallest vault hunter, and we know that at least his collision hitbox is bigger, because in coop you can bounce on his head, and you're not bouncing through his head. But idk if that necessarily means his bullet hitbox is bigger
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u/browsing4stuff 12h ago
I’ve definitely noticed characters having different hit boxes when reviving allies in coop. Brick and Krieg are so big you can have complete cover from incoming fire when you revive them, especially if Krieg has that skill that lets him stand and throw dynamite.
Meanwhile trying to revive Lilith or Gaige they block absolutely nothing.
Didn’t get to play coop in presequel much, but I imagine Wilhelm was also a giant wall.
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u/IceCat767 23h ago
He does because he has a huge hitbox
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u/D-I-L-F 23h ago
Is that a hundred percent confirmed? Like, have we seen the hitboxes console enabled and seen them side by side or anything? I don't know why they wouldn't be different, like maybe I'm being an idiot by assuming they'd make all the hitboxes the same for enemy bullets just to keep it fair 🤷
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u/orangutan-love 23h ago
Krieg takes the same amount of damage as everyone else,his playstyle is high risk snowballing that easily leads to sudden death. Your playstyle may just not be suited for krieg
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u/D-I-L-F 23h ago
The point of my very long story was that I had completely mastered the general play of the game. At least insofar as this challenge required. I was dying at areas I had completed a hundred times in the last six months. Krieg didn't change my playstyle, that was very locked in.
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u/orangutan-love 23h ago
The fact that your playstyle stayed the same sounds like the issue.Krieg is a unique character and his playstyle is different to other people. You need to adapt to his strengths
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u/D-I-L-F 23h ago
At level 6? Level 10? You don't even need to use any action skills or perks to glide through those levels. A normal player could accidentally make it deathless through level 10 their first time playing the game. Playstyle is just not a good answer here given the context.
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u/tydollasign1 23h ago
he def doesnt take more dmg than the others, ive never once even suspected that , and it wouldnt make sense. this game has been modded, and inspected like crazy, wed know if he just arbitrarily took more damage.
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u/D-I-L-F 23h ago
Never said arbitrarily. He's physically larger, but idk if that means his hitbox for enemy bullets is matched to his actual model. If so, that could contribute. Also his melee damage scales differently, does that make sense? Then so could his damage taken.
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u/tydollasign1 11h ago
His melee scales differently bc hes a melee character lol. Also why would a close up melee character take more DMG, thats the opposite. IG you just didn't read the second part of my comment as well. We would know if his damage was different. You can keep saying the same shit over and over but its not gonna make it true. You just need to git gud.
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u/D-I-L-F 10h ago
Ohhhh so since Zero is a sniper character he must have sniper scaling built in. Right? Right? Also, per your stupid logic, if a melee character taking more damage is "the opposite", then he must have the opposite of that? He takes less damage than other characters? You just need... A massive IQ bump.
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u/Traditional-Deal-465 17h ago
He doesn't take more damage from enemies. He does however hurt himself, have skills with very direct downsides, and has a very snowball reliant combat loop that effectively punishes you for not only trying to play slow and safe but also for not knowing the proper timing to all in. He's also probably at his weakest in the early levels because he doesn't have very good means of keeping his snowball going or lacks the skill points to pick up his best survival skills such as Taste of Blood, Release the Beast, Thrill of the Kill, and Elemental Empathy (the latter two which are substantially less helpful in the earlier levels because of how the game scales).
Ultimately, Krieg has a very different playstyle from any other vault hunter because not knowing the right time to really get going leads to you either running in and dying or hanging back too long which results in effectively playing a neutered version of any other VH. Due to all of these factors, it's no surprise that your experience on the other characters got you killed. I'd say that (speaking broadly) Krieg has the least amount of applicable knowledge for other VHs and vice versa with the other VHs offering relatively little help when transferring your skills and knowledge to Krieg's game plan. This uniqueness is why a lot of people love him so dearly, myself included.
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u/D-I-L-F 16h ago
He doesn't hurt himself unless you pick skills that enable that though, right? Or does he damage himself by default in some way? I agree that trying to play solo safe with him is playing neutered, but there's a difference between "Oh this guy doesn't work so great, it's kinda hard to stay alive." and "Two bandits at my level with SMGs put me in ffyl in like 3 seconds from 50 yards away." Like idk how much more clearly or how many different ways I can communicate that I wasn't having a hard time, I didn't "not know how Krieg works", it felt like I was slagged at all times.
Also, if I truly had no idea how to play as Krieg, surely the mid to late game would be the issue, no? By then you've got a bunch of great survival skills for all 5 of the others, but Krieg's skills sll suck for survival until release the beast. Nothing about his "style" would make levels 6-10 routinely kill someone who practically has every enemy spawn memorized. Like this is essentially non responsive to my situation.
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u/Traditional-Deal-465 16h ago
No, he doesn't by default, but I don't know what skills you're picking so I've tried to cover all bases. If you aren't managing your health properly you can absolutely be gunned down quickly because of his skills that drastically increase shield recharge delay. It's the only thing I can think of because if you aren't taking self damage skills, and "know how he works", and are properly playing around that then there should be no issue. Unless of course you aren't even taking Feed the Meat, in which case... yeah passing up on 10% health/skill point when you're wanting to be survivable will definitely do it.
I mean, I'm trying to help as much as I can, he's the VH I almost exclusively play, but the only times I've ever seen someone complain about Krieg not being survivable are A) Running melee shields at high levels instead of adaptive or Rough Rider and B) killing themselves with StV + FtB combo because they're unaware of how they interact, both later game issues. The truth is that he doesn't take more damage than other VHs and levels 6-10 he's no less survivable than any other VH and probably is able to take quite a bit more upfront damage due to having the largest single skill health increase in the game available at tier 1 and repeated full heals. The only thing they have that he doesn't is very early passive health regen, which is only a big deal if you aren't managing your health/shield properly.
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u/D-I-L-F 15h ago
I take only 2 points of Feed the Meat, I don't take the other one that extends recharge delay, I don't use his class mod that extends recharge delay, I don't use melee shields at all, I use adaptive shields for Krieg. I fully understand that he doesn't have a damage multiplier. I accept that, I've never denied that. There are other variables that could result in him taking more damage though. He could have a larger hitbox, him having a larger hitbox could react strangely with enemy targeting such that it's a multiplicative effect, he takes less stagger, him being a more stable target for enemies could increase damage taken, like there's so many variables you people aren't even considering.
I beat the game deathless with him! Do you really think "git gud" is the kind of answer I'm looking for?
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u/Traditional-Deal-465 15h ago
I don't know why you wouldn't take more than 2 points in the single largest health boost in the game on a character who loves to have max health, especially when you are having survivability issues. Odd choice aside, I'm really not trying to tell you all there is to it is just 'git gud' but you are describing an issue that doesn't seem to exist for anyone who regularly plays Krieg. Again, I don't know what you're actually doing because you've gone into virtually zero detail and I don't know how you're playing because you have posted no gameplay footage, so the best I can do is offer general advice. Clearly you don't appreciate the attempt since all you've done is tell me that you understand the character and how to play him completely despite struggling with issues that I personally have never heard anyone else struggle with and have not struggled with myself. Maybe don't play the character anymore?
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u/D-I-L-F 14h ago edited 14h ago
You don't know why extending shield recharge delay might fuck with survival? Can't wrap your brain around that one? And you've never heard of anyone struggling with Krieg dying easier than other vault hunters. That's just a really stupid lie. But okay. Peace.
Also, I beat the game deathless with everyone. I never have to play with any character ever again. Mission accomplished. But reading is hard eh?
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u/Traditional-Deal-465 13h ago
But you don't think a vastly increased health pool on a character that gets full heals regularly is helpful? The skill is a no brainer for survival, just take a few extra seconds between encounters to make sure you start with a full buffer.
Again, I've heard people struggle surviving with Krieg in the late game like I said in the prior comment so I'm not sure how I'm the one here with a reading issue, but yes I am very obviously here to lie about personal experiences to make you feel bad for struggling where I have not because we live in a world where everyone is the exact same, except for you because you have no skills to play Krieg in hit game Borderlands 2. /s
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u/D-I-L-F 12h ago
Ohhhhhhh you just take a few extra seconds between encounters and you never die? Why did I never think of that!? You're right, if you just take a few seconds, there's no downside! You're a genius mate! Do you have any other Einstein level insights? Like "if you don't have enough money either spend less or make more"? Or "if you weigh too much eat less"? Please brother you have to help me
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u/Traditional-Deal-465 10h ago
It's quite sad that you manage to take everything I say to you as a personal attack, that hasn't been my intention since the very beginning and I believe I've done at least a passable job of being polite and reasonable, excepting my previous sarcastic remark which I thought was quite tame but if it offended you then I apologize, it wasn't my intention.
I never said you never die, but it effectively negates a good chunk of the downside. If you're in the thick of it, the odds are your shield won't be regenerating anyway unless you have something very quick like a purple tediore shield, which Krieg doesn't like because of the obvious anti synergy. Because of this, Krieg's shield is a once per fight/second wind buffer to get you in range or give you time to snowball. This is why the skill is a no brainer, the benefit helps when you're getting shot at and the detriment doesn't bring you down. Rather, the increased delay is more of a nudge to get you to stop playing in cover so often and for mild synergy with 'when shield is empty' skills/Flame of the Firehawk. Not to mention that, again, the benefit is greatly multiplied because you get repeated full heals. Every extra health point is more time you can go between these full heals and it makes a huge difference. The reason you've been dying is because you are passing up his single best early game survivability boost (which I must stress again, is the single largest health per point skill in the entire game and it is at tier 1) because a few seconds of shield delay have scared you off of it. It's a very powerful skill that no build should ever skip unless you're trying to force a Bee onto him.
Respectfully, if you can't see how much of a benefit FtM is on a character like Krieg then you don't understand him very well.1
u/D-I-L-F 10h ago
Scared me off of it? Bitch, you don't think I tried it? You don't think in the fifteen attempts it took me to get the deathless win I didn't try basically every combination of skills I could in the early game before settling on what worked for me? Which by the way, to reiterate, I GOT THE FUCKING WIN so I'm not looking for gameplay tips. Idk why that's so hard to get through your thick skull, and I'm not remotely concerned with offending you at this point.
My question was very fucking simple. You have zero insight as to what I'm asking, and seem to be under the delusion I'm here for gameplay tips. Can you tell me what the fuck I said that made you think gameplay tips was what I was looking for?
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u/File_Beneficial 23h ago
Krieg doesn't take more damage but he does take less knock back, so running away from enemies is quite a bit harder.