r/AusFinance • • 7h ago

Does our government want a recession?

I just listened to one of my clients complain about their falling sales and blamed it all on our current government. They claimed that our government is doing everything in their power to bring on a recession.

I didn’t tell them but my thinking is that a lot of our problems are from external forces.

Who is right or are we both right in some way?

42 Upvotes

181 comments sorted by

114

u/Wetrapordie 7h ago

The governments issue is they seem to want to please everyone… they want home owners to be happy, home buyers to be happy, employees to be happy, business to be happy, voters to be happy, donors to be happy…

I wish they would set an economic vision for the next decade or two and just move towards a long term vision than just managing spot fires that will never end.

66

u/MKD8595 7h ago

Decades mean nothing in a 3 year cycle sadly. The next guy will just fuck it all up (NBN)

22

u/CesarMdezMnz 6h ago

3-year electoral cycles are ridiculously short anyway. I don't even think 4 years is long enough anymore.

I'd gladly change the system to 5-year electoral cycles, with a maximum of 8 years in office for prime ministers. Longer cycles would give governments more time to implement policies and plan beyond the next election, while the term limit would still restrict how long one person could remain prime minister.

I think that becomes particularly relevant now that China, which isn't constrained by competitive electoral cycles in the same way, has become such a major actor in global politics and economics.

20

u/mildlyopinionatedpom 6h ago

I agree with the 5-year election cycles, but in the westminster system we have I don't see a reason for term limits for prime ministers

11

u/nutwals 5h ago

Agreed - poor performing PM's tend to get knifed by the party room pretty quickly as it is, we shouldn't limit the potential of having a good PM for a sustained period of time

3

u/yothuyindi 6h ago

would you be advocating for this if a party you didn't like or had the opposite vision for what you want in society was currently in power, and got a guaranteed 5 years?

be careful what you wish for

9

u/CesarMdezMnz 6h ago

Yes, i would be advocating for it regardless.

The problem with 3-year cycles is that feeds into electoralism and short-term policies.

Voters will be given time to see the effect of reforms. Populists parties would have much difficult to reach power in this context, and if they reach it, they would have enough time to see the effects of their bad policies implemented instead of leaving them to the next government to deal with the aftermath.

•

u/sugarglider15 31m ago

Imagine ON was the in government. I’d want them gone asap

•

u/Almost-kinda-normal 19m ago

I’d suggest that a five year cycle might actually prevent the rise of ON style politics in the first place.

1

u/Suspicious-Gain-7000 4h ago

I would.

That way at least that party has the time and space to make long term policy plays and maybe they would be more successful and potentially even win me over.

•

u/Almost-kinda-normal 20m ago

I’d still prefer it because it would narrow the window for them to blame the “other” in the equation. Dude, you’ve been given half a decade to do it, why didn’t you get it done?

•

u/Ilyer_ 2h ago

The end goal would be for shit parties to no longer be elected. Longer terms gives us longer time periods to feel and remember the effects of political decisions.

3

u/Send_Nudes_Plz_Thx 6h ago

Every politician with an ego just wants a quick win because any long term planning will mean that they won't be there for the ribbon cutting and putting their name on a plaque

3

u/turtleWatcher18 4h ago

I think you can only push for longer terms if there’s a way to push out ineffective leaders - otherwise as others say you risk longer term bad planning

•

u/Ilyer_ 2h ago

Good. Pain is important in learning. Learning is important for avoiding pain.

4

u/thedugong 6h ago

I'd gladly change the system to 5-year electoral cycles

That is what the UK has. Their politics and economic situation is somewhat worse. So, I don't think that will change anything.

3

u/MKD8595 6h ago

They have other problems causing massive unhappiness over there. Cycle length won’t solve shit of the unhappy masses

2

u/thedugong 5h ago

They have other problems causing massive unhappiness over there.

Which are?

5

u/MKD8595 5h ago

Off the top of my head would be the proposed break up of the UK, Stagnation of wages and growing inequality since the GFC.

A fun one is to look at the condition of the Royal Navy compared to 1980 to understand how far they have fallen over time.

It’s not exactly thriving lately.

I don’t see how changing how long a party can govern will help 45 years of slow decline if a cabbage can outlast the leader.

1

u/Suspicious-Gain-7000 4h ago

their voting system is garbage compared to ours. I think they are even moving towards our system.

2

u/Monotone-Man19 6h ago

Changing from a 3 year to a longer term is debatable. What certainly should not happen is minimum and maximum terms. As things are now, the opposition can be in turmoil and the sitting government will call an early election provided the minimum time has passed. If the government is in trouble, they will of course wait to the maximum time period, and then in fact be forced to hold an election. This is farcical.

1

u/mbullaris 5h ago

Changing electoral cycles at the federal level requires constitutional change. I can imagine an acrimonious debate and a lot of fearmongering, particularly in today’s political climate.

I really doubt that a referendum would achieve the double majority to pass as I think most voters, who don’t actually have to deal with the nitty-gritty of government policy-making, would be sceptical of giving politicians more time in office.

13

u/Hasra23 5h ago

We don't even have a plan for the next year meanwhile China has a 100 year plan laid out and is kicking goals every single year.

Kinda makes your think that democracy isn't the answer, no one is ever going to vote against their own immediate self interest even if it's not the best thing for the long term.

3

u/Validator_Profile 4h ago

Neither is fascism or communism. China is like the only country with a semi-communist government that is thriving because they are applying themselves correctly (and maybe lack of corruption?). I think you're right in principal if these governments had a long term vision and didn't succumb to corruption. Otherwise, I agree, it's just self serving for 3 years.

3

u/Chii 4h ago edited 4h ago

maybe lack of corruption?

they cracked down on a lot of corruption in recent decades, but there's still the type of corruption that actually creates economic value (sometimes called greasing the wheel theory), see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4C1xiyGaGs

What it means is that some rules and regulations gets bypassed in order to do business and profit. Often these rules tend to be "victimless" (like environmental rules), or the victim is so powerless and under-represented politically that they aren't able to retaliate at all.

2

u/MortisEx 4h ago

The other advantage China has is a ton of easy wins bringing people from almost middle age peasants into the 21st century with hydroelectric power and a ton of cheap rice cookers and industrial machines.

5

u/_unsinkable_sam_ 4h ago

our political system doesn’t give much incentive to forward planning, and our voter base doesn’t reward it.

we either need a total overhaul or a complete shift in how society sees the role of government and how / who they elect. i dont see others happening, so short term policies will continue to be judged immediately and votes based accordingly.

handouts are rewarded with votes, a terrible, inefficient system.

19

u/Practical_Act7243 7h ago

There’s no long term planning done by any of the corrupt flogs in Canberra. Their only goal ever is to win the next election. That’s all. That and keep their political donors happy and get themselves cushy jobs on the boards of said donors when all is said and done.

8

u/thedugong 6h ago

And that's the thing. Voters don't vote for people with vision.

In Australia, where we have compulsory voting, ranked choice voting etc, voters (in aggregate) seem to still want short term fixes.

3

u/turtleWatcher18 4h ago

I don’t think the mandatory voting pushes one way or another, the UK with Brexit and the US are both examples of a population without mandatory voting going for a plan with no vision

1

u/sugmysmega 5h ago

The people have the government that they deserve.

•

u/OldMail6364 2h ago

It's got nothing to do with being flogs. Long term plans are useless unless you can win elections and actually deliver those plans.

2

u/Chii 4h ago

set an economic vision for the next decade or two

when you stay in the job for 4 years with no guarantee of contract continuation, you would also not plan for the decade (let alone two).

•

u/Ilyer_ 2h ago

They tried that in 2019 and got denied. The general population is incredibly immature and views everything as either helping them, or harming them.

1

u/PM-ME-UR-NITS 5h ago

Long term? In politics? Lol

1

u/Maro1947 5h ago

Do you not follow modern politics? It's literally impossible for that to happen with today's ,edoa and voter pool

1

u/dnkdumpster 4h ago

Plus boomers to be happy

-1

u/Validator_Profile 4h ago

You summed the exact issue with our government, thank you. Popularism driven govt with absolutely 0 direction. I am not a Trump supporter by any means, but I can appreciate that he has some sort drive or way he wants to take America - protectionist and divulge of culture. He's still retarded but atleast he has some conviction with what he wants.

Australia has nothing.

You get fucked for trying to start a business, you get fucked for trying to make money through housing, you get fucked for investing in the share market. There are too many people, not enough houses.

•

u/Ilyer_ 2h ago

We should have elected them in 2019 then before the housing market got even more fucked.

But we chose not to and Labor learnt that populism was the only way to drive policy because that is what the people want (trump is a populist).

You also can’t have both enough houses and make money through housing. Choose.

-2

u/tradeandgo 3h ago

You forgot to add "you get funked for leaving the country for good" = deemed disposal tax. Aka unrealised gains tax on shares and asset at market rate before you leave. This should be abolished. Referendum is needed.

233

u/sun_tzu29 7h ago

No democratic government in the history of the planet has “wanted” a recession. They’re electoral poison.

42

u/mute_axolotl 7h ago

Except for the recession we had to have.

39

u/Tezzmond 6h ago edited 6h ago

So, Keating was so powerful he put "Much of the Western world in recession in the early 1990s" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1990s_recession

18

u/thedugong 6h ago

Don't underestimate the power of Australia. Our CGT and negative gearing regulations also managed to make property prices unaffordable pretty much worldwide too.

(/jk BTW).

8

u/FilthyWubs 5h ago

Bloody Labour!!! (sic)

5

u/mute_axolotl 6h ago

I am being facetious, though it wouldn’t be beyond the man’s ego to believe he could accomplish that!

60

u/StrathfieldGap 7h ago

They did not want that recession, it was just a way to try and get people to forgive them for it.

3

u/Ok-Phone-8384 5h ago

Really? This was a statement heavily laden in irony and that most intelligent people understood.

Assuming you were being sarcastic and for those who did not assume that, it was a mathematical certainty that a recession was to occur due to previous unsustainable and excessive growth of the economy. It was not the result of an action of the government but a statement of fact.

In financial terms this is called regression (reversion) to the mean in which extremities in a series will always trend towards a mean. This may also infer that an equal and opposite extreme may occur to ensure that the mean remains on trend (i.e. normal distribution). Thus Keatings comment of the "recession we had to have".

The only "choice" a government has in such a scenario is to provide monetary or fiscal policy to either ensure a short but stupendous decline or a long, gradual decline. There are pros and cons for both and there are historical examples of both.

In terms of monetary policy the choices are Disinflationary monetary policy i.e raising interest rates or Quantitative tightening i.e buying/not printing money.

In terms of fiscal policy governments can either increase taxes or spend less i.e. austerity. Either of these routes never goes very well for governments who want to govern another term. This is why governments like independents monetary boards to do the hard work.

9

u/dirtyesspeakers 7h ago

Keating covering for the inflationary effects of Hawke's NOM.

-13

u/Ok-Perspective-8427 7h ago

This - the Labor way

11

u/mute_axolotl 7h ago

Well, the last recession before that was Fraser and Howard.

3

u/Lost-Competition8482 3h ago

Last recession was under Scomo in 2020.

15

u/Suspicious-Gain-7000 7h ago

some sectors are booming and some sectors are struggling.

Most markets are becoming more competitive is what I've seen. You have to do more and be more for your customers to ensure growth figures are maintained.

To be honest though mate, it's no different to the past few years across the sectors I work (Asset intensive construction, Solar, Tech, Insurance). Its just a lot of businesses became very very very very fat and lazy in the good years post 2012 through to covid and a lot of them have been coasting on that inertia for a while.

This has meant that they didn't really invest any capital back into the business and were content to watch the growth rates hover around 4-8% annually for a lot of non-tech firms and just chill. Even when covid hit, aside from tinkering round the edges, most businesses literally sat around and waited for daddy government to bail em out instead of making hard decisions, investing in equipment, tech, processes or people. Since then we've seen a slow tightening of the noose as our overall growth rate hasn't really kept up and each year has brought more and more pressure.

Now times are tougher, the chickens of the past few years have truly come home to roost and the firms that did harvest all the fat from the good times and invest in people / tech/ new ways of doing things are gobbling up the laggards.

If you are struggling, it's not the government it's you.

88

u/TrumpisaRussianCuck 7h ago

Your clients are idiots.

41

u/Mandarooha 6h ago

I overheard someone in a waiting room the other day say Albanese just "wants to piss people off" unironically. How does someone even land on an opinion that a democratic leader wants to piss people off. I weep for humanity lol, people are so fucking stupid 😭

-14

u/TheDotNetDetective 6h ago

To be fair its pretty hard to be this bad at governing. They can't do a single thing right so not entirely unreasonable to start wondering wth?!

8

u/Mandarooha 5h ago

Yes but wondering wth is great. Landing on 'they want to upset people' is the depressing part lol

6

u/bow-red 3h ago

Id argue its a pretty tough world wide environment to govern in.

-5

u/TheDotNetDetective 3h ago edited 3h ago

Yeah thats undeniably true, doesnt change the fact that they are the worse government in my memory.

7

u/bow-red 3h ago

Worse than scomo? Abbott?

Hard for me to believe that is a serious considered position.

-2

u/TheDotNetDetective 3h ago

Mate we live in a world of google and AI. Life was objectively better and easier under both of those PMs. Stop with the absolute insane bias...

Don't take my word for it, look up the metrics.

7

u/bow-red 3h ago

So less to do with the actual PM and more to do with your view of the state of the world and your personal circumstances.

I’m certainly materially better off currently than I was under those PMs.

•

u/TheDotNetDetective 6m ago

You say its my 'view' and my personal circumstances that are driving my worldview yet i specifically told you to look at the objective metrics, and then you use your own anecdotal personal experience as a counter to me telling you to look up the data.

You legitimately cant make this stuff up.

•

u/Ava_Adore_87 2h ago

I think a lot of people just dont know or bother to look up what they have done or how global issues impact us. Are they perfect? No way. Can they do more? Absolutely. Are they the worst. No.

https://www.albosteezy.com/summary

1

u/TrumpisaRussianCuck 3h ago

I'd argue outside of some missteps like the Voice referendum they've been a fairly competent government. What specifically do you dislike?

1

u/TheDotNetDetective 3h ago

Honestly how do you look at the last few years in this country and go 'yep, 👌 perfect'?

I genuinely dont understand how you can have your head in the sand this bad.

I would answer your question with my question, give me a single example of a major piece of policy or change they have implemented that has been a net positive?

4

u/KimJongNumber-Un 3h ago

He asked a pretty easy to answer question, it's a tad concerning you couldn't answer it and had to resort to asking a question instead of supporting your original point.

•

u/TheDotNetDetective 2h ago

Who do you think you are? I don't owe you a deep dive on a subject matter because some random on reddit decided that was the basis on which they'd accept my answer.

His question is the typical inane leftie (retort) that people who themselves have absolutely nothing to say use to feign ignorance. It's a way to be non-confrontational while dismissing your opponents argument while also saying nothing.

Go back to your uni and read a book outside of the socialist manifesto.

4

u/TrumpisaRussianCuck 3h ago

Because I travel quite extensively and can see that Australia is not unique in post Covid challenges. Everyone got fat on QE and low interest rates and now they're paying the price.

As for specific policies I like: NDIS reform, right to disconnect, their crackdown of visa fraud especially education, fee free TAFE, super on paid parental leave, HECS fee reduction, home battery subsidies, CGT/NG reforms, stronger action on climate change and renewable uptake, re-engagement with our Pacific neighbours.

•

u/TheDotNetDetective 2h ago

Couple more points that I just cant help but add.

  1. Note that almost everything you have written is just stealing money from the productive sectors of the economy and moving them to either unproductive sectors or just outright theft.

  2. All of these points you mention excluding climate and CGT (which they butchered - and I supported removing it from property) are just twiddling around the sides. None of them are important reforms given what is happening in the country in my opinion.

  3. The CGT is going to be one of the most disastrous pieces of legislation this country has ever passed. Its really is hard to emphasise hyst how bad the business environment in the country is and how huge the consequences of that will be over the coming decades. This change alone should put the current Labor government into the dustbin of history, and again I support removing negative gearing from established housing.

•

u/TheDotNetDetective 2h ago
  1. NDIS, awful not a real cut
  2. Disconnect - Awful by any measure.
  3. Too little too late but ok fine I'll give youj that one.
  4. Tafe - Awful.
  5. Super - Awful.
  6. Hecs - Awful.
  7. Batteries - Awful.
  8. CGT - Mega mega mega disaster awful.
  9. Climate change - I think man made climate change is 100% real and I think that almost every solution we have taken is, you guessed it awful!
  10. Meh whatever, low hanging fruit.

You say you travel much but just based on the items you've listed its hard to believe that even if you do travel much that you have much of an understanding of how the real world works. To you they sound great, to me they sound like the drivel that only a uneducated socailists with zero real world experience would support.

More importantly the results speak for themselves, the country is in serious trouble on almost every objective observable measure that matters but keep telling yourself its all good.

•

u/TrumpisaRussianCuck 14m ago
  1. Saving $40B over 4 years. Putting in place the system the way it was envisioned instead of the cluster fuck they inherited.
  2. Why? Work life balance is key if you want to raise the natural birth rate.
  3. Glad we can agree.
  4. Why? If you're anti-immigration - where do you see things like trades coming from? We ended up here because of cuts to TAFE.
  5. Why? Females have lower super balances than men, in large part due to paid parental leave. Again - if you're wanting to reduce immigration you need policies that will encourage the natural birth rate to improve.
  6. Why?
  7. Why? Energy is ridiculously cheap and the subsidies have made Australia a world leader in rooftop solar.
  8. CGT - I'm not a fan of all the changes but I'll take a government willing to take a stab at it instead of passing the buck. Housing affordability is a direct impact on natural birth rates.
  9. Why? What would you do differently?
  10. Not really meh - with the world increasingly turning isolationist - having strong middle powers is more important than ever.

As for travel I'm up over 80 countries and have spent extensive time in North America which it sounds like more aligns with how you think workers rights etc should line up with. As for my real world experience, I now run my own businesses, pay the highest tax bracket and own my own house outright so some of the very policies I advocate for would directly impact my wallet but I can see the bigger picture.

•

u/Ilyer_ 2h ago

Why exactly is the voice referendum a misstep?

•

u/TrumpisaRussianCuck 24m ago

Wasted a huge amount of political capital trying to push it through and did a poor job communicating to Australians why it was required and let the No movement cease the high ground.

•

u/Ilyer_ 10m ago

Huh?

So simultaneously they put too much effort in “pushing it through”, and also not enough?

Another interpretation is that you are mad they “failed”…? Which they didn’t, they posed a question to the Australian public and we voted; democracy in action. It’s debatable as to whether they should even be so involved in the process of changing the rules to which they govern.

And lastly, you are viewing this like it’s a 50-50 shot and a failure is solely on the government who proposed it. History doesn’t show this, the few successful referendums were all bipartisan.

•

u/TrumpisaRussianCuck 7m ago

I didn't say that. I said they failed to communicate their case for why it should have been passed. Don't put words into my mouth or assume you have an idea what my position is.

•

u/Ilyer_ 6m ago

I didn’t do anything wrong mate. No need to be so antisocial.

•

u/TrumpisaRussianCuck 4m ago

That's not me being "antisocial". You invented a position I didn't take, argued against it, then when I corrected you, reframed my correction as a personality problem. Gaslighting 101.

If you want to engage in proper discourse, I'm more than open to it.

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19

u/yibbida 7h ago

You probably don't need to worry about them, their business will be bankrupt soon if this is their thinking.

20

u/grounddurries 7h ago

no, but at this point i think an inevitable recession has been put off too long. would have been better if we just let it happen 5 years ago and had rebuilt by now, instead it was put off because no government wants to deal with it and now we are facing all these issues

6

u/Send_Nudes_Plz_Thx 6h ago

The past govt was too inefficient to do anything practical other than diverting funds to their own electorates and their own interests so it would have been worse but should have happened regardless

8

u/DirtyAqua 6h ago

Of course. A government wants an extremely unpopular recession that would get them voted out....

28

u/Immediate-Public-505 7h ago

A lot of the problems we face today have been apparent for at least 2 decades. Even saying it is external factors removes agency from governments (and the voting populace) to shift course.

5

u/Emergency-Ticket5859 7h ago

Yes, governments globally have been in love with debt since the post-GFC period

6

u/Immediate-Public-505 7h ago

Yes plus all our policies are essentially big business orientated.

2

u/FiftyBuxBloBang 6h ago

0% interest rates for so long were the issue. Look at Japan, stalled economy for 20 years and massive loans to the US. Now rates are going up everyone is losing their shit.

1

u/ScepticalReciptical 4h ago

They were in love with debt pre GFC, the debt explosion is one of the main reasons we had a GFC in the first place. 

1

u/Emergency-Ticket5859 3h ago

That's not true at all, government debt had nothing to do with the GFC. It was driven by shitty bank lending standards and the resulting liquidity crunch.

23

u/Sure_Advertising583 7h ago

If customers are not coming to your restaurant, do you blame the customers or change the menu ?

16

u/MostlyGaseousCurator 7h ago

it's almost never just one thing but blaming the government is the easy way out when sales dip. external forces are absolutely massive right now but if your client can't figure out how to adapt their menu they'll be in trouble no matter who's in charge

•

u/Ok-Aide-6955 2h ago

For some situations yes. This falls apart when a direct policy change sends your industry into a nose dive of - 55% in the last two years

However, people like to complain and the gov is high on people's list. Especially with algorithms limiting information flow 

1

u/thedugong 6h ago

Honestly? It's probably the location.

1

u/Emergency-Ticket5859 7h ago

You close your restaurant, lose your income, then don't spend your money at the other restaurants

3

u/Sandhurts4 6h ago

You close your restaurant and get a job.

1

u/0hip 7h ago

You can blame the economy and people not being able to afford to eat out

4

u/dereban 7h ago

Thats the same logic the clients in OP's post used...

Plenty of restaurants still running packed so if they just keep blaming others and don't change anything themselves then they will just lose out regardless

0

u/Sandhurts4 6h ago

You lobby the government for business support.

5

u/Low_Statistician1644 6h ago

Everyone wants an excuse to blame someone else. Maybe your client sells something that people don’t actually need or want.

10

u/mute_axolotl 7h ago

If the government wanted a recession, they’d be pulling back spending a lot quicker than they are now.

7

u/Interesting_Road_515 7h ago

For some young people, they thought the recession or even social collapse is better than a society with growing inequality, so-called double-loss is better than one-win mindset. This happened in history before, and that was exactly the reason why communism was born during gilded age. When some people talk about the danger of recession, those young people don’t give a shit, which is quite concerning.

9

u/Spirited_Shower_5817 6h ago

If you're going to lose either way whats the issue with fucking up the powerful that are the reason you are losing...

2

u/incognitodoritos 5h ago

The powerful don't suffer during a recession...

4

u/EndlessPotatoes 4h ago

As far as many young people are concerned, they're in a recession.

But because the economy has gone K-shaped, it's not a recession for everyone and it's just getting worse for them.

Thanks to the level of fucked our society and economy has reached, every attempt to support those without just funnels directly into the pockets of the those with. That's the reality a lot of people have been living for a long time, and the only way out they can see is to bring everyone down.

What I don't agree with is the way the government is standing back, forcing the RBA to pull their lever. The government can take formal advice from the RBA to great effect, but they're not inviting that input because the resulting policy changes would be contrary to their personal interests.

2

u/PM-ME-UR-NITS 5h ago

I’m already on a sinking ship, the elites can join us - fuck em

•

u/ShadyBiz 1h ago

The elites are historically the only people who benefit from a recession.

You think the world’s wealthiest decreased during or after the GFC?

1

u/EndlessPotatoes 4h ago

Imagine a captain steering directly into an iceberg and not expecting the ship's passengers to keep the captain from sneaking away with the only lifeboat.

•

u/Obvious_Librarian_97 20m ago

They won’t - only people going down is the middle class. Much to learn.

1

u/InterestingCheek7095 5h ago

because as young people what can we do? Nothing 

7

u/Maro1947 5h ago

TBH, Those who are blaming the current government for Business woes clearly shouldn't be running a business - do they not understand cause and effect and long term fiscal policies that are way beyond the scope of 2 terms of government

Of course, it's much easier to decry Albo than look at the root causes

3

u/Dizzy_Depth_2937 6h ago

I think a more accurate framing is they are willing to risk one to maintain their preferred spending.

9

u/YoghiThorn 7h ago

They don't but they are a bit painted into a corner by the actions of previous governments and that we've been in a per-capita recession for a while now and we're only propping up the country via migration and large spending programs like the NDIS.

5

u/pennyfred 7h ago

External forces sounds like you're drinking the government's kool aid. There's external forces at play, but the government makes it sounds like they're actually doing a great job despite it - rather than using it as a scapegoat for coming up with lemons, which is closer to the truth.

2

u/wearahat03 6h ago

I think you're both wrong.

There is no group on earth trying to bring Australia into a recession. Think of a recession as an illness, no one wants to get sick, but that doesn't mean people don't get sick, if that makes sense?

Blaming a group as the culprit causing a recession, is really just psychological comfort for most, as if there is a group responsible, then a recession doesn't have to happen. It's like how in the past people thought a bad harvest was due to upsetting the gods, and if they simply performed a ritual, they wouldn't get a bad harvest.

Sometimes shit happens and it's not because of an evil corporation, the government, foreign actors etc. Just hard for people to accept this - that the smartest people in the room cannot predict the web of interactions between billions of people

2

u/lol_cat01 6h ago

The CGT changes will end any incentive for Australian small business. I know a few who want to sell and get our before July 2027

2

u/thedugong 6h ago

What are their views on Bill Gates, 5G, vaccines, and EVs?

2

u/wizardnamehere 5h ago

No. The government doesn’t want a recession. It would be highly likely to be voted out in the next election.

What actions by the government did your client blame?

2

u/ScepticalReciptical 4h ago

They are unable to differentiate between the RBA and tue Government. The RBA won't say it out loud but they want a recession to bring inflation under control, it's basically the only way it can happen now, the mythical soft landing was a mirage. The Government absolutely doesn't want a recession, it's pretty much guaranteed to see them voted out unless it's a very short one followed by a quick recovery.

•

u/_ricardo_ 2h ago

Yes, and its the recession we had to have.

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u/sadboyoclock 2h ago

Labor is doing an okay job tbh given the circumstances. 30% minimum tax in capital gains is dumb though. Regressive taxes help no one

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u/SirAlfredOfHorsIII 1h ago

The recession has been looming since corvid. Nothing Labor could do, bar more stimulus packages and ramp up inflation, could help.

As long as trump wars keep fucking with fuel supply, inflation will keep shooting up. Has very little to do with our government. They could drop the exise, but people already whinge about their spending, despite them also saying they should do that, when that would cost millions.

A recession is basically a given at this point, thanks to trump

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u/Brisssie 48m ago

The way Gov’t is stoking inflation & blowing taxpayer $$ while hiking taxes it certainly appears like they are.

It seems like Labor doesn’t care about Australia in most respects with living standards plummeting, infrastructure crumbling, mass immigration dividing & taking over while debt & homeless explode….all quite demoralising really.

2

u/Tripper234 7h ago

The government is trying to do everything it can to stop a recession. Government spending while increase inflation is also keep a hell of alot of people employed.

If they reduce spending the unemployment rate will skyrocket. Basically leading to a recession

6

u/HeftyArgument 7h ago

OPs clients don't know what it means, they also don't care about other people's livelihoods, they care that they are making less sales, it's a recession entirely fixated on themselves.

3

u/SnorriHT 3h ago

Our current federal government is run by people who make decisions based on ideology, not based on discussion, consensus and compromise.

Ideologues live in their own filter bubbles, and believe they’re the smartest people in the room.

That is dangerous in an economy that is experiencing significant structural uncertainty.

2

u/wordplayar 7h ago

I think you are both wrong. government does not want a recession, but alot of our problems are also from internal sources.

4

u/pixieshit 7h ago

Yes they want a recession. Because hyperinflation is objectively a worse fate

4

u/dutchahontas 7h ago

Yep, the treasurer has publicly stated he’s tilting the rewards from capital to labour.

No investment = no productivity = no pay increase.

Been there, done that, more than once.

It’s why there’s so many old men yelling at the clouds.

3

u/Spirited_Shower_5817 6h ago

Where has he publically stated it? I keep a close eye on announcements and havent hesrd him say this directly? Got a link?

3

u/CriticalTooth2183 6h ago

They’re talking out of their ass like most redditors

3

u/Tezzmond 7h ago

They watch Murdoch/Sky News/News24.

2

u/MaxMillion888 6h ago

Government doesnt. RBA does

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u/Minnidigital 2h ago

I’m starting to think all the world’s governments are in cahoots with each other and Australia is just another cog in the well oiled machine….

1

u/Blammo32 7h ago

Apparently we need an increase in unemployment to combat inflation, so… yes?

1

u/SuperannuationLawyer 6h ago

State or Commonwealth? I doubt the people working in either want anything but economic prosperity.

1

u/CriticalTooth2183 6h ago

I would suggest that our surge in immigration over the past 5 years has solely been done to prevent a recession. Everything else that is happening is an effort to balance the playing field. Those that were profiting from the previous system just don’t like it…

1

u/AussieJaob 6h ago

We are in a recession. The influx of immigrants with new money masks this but the average Aussie is feeling the effects of a recession.

1

u/djangovsjango 5h ago

Global interest rates are going up , bond rates are going up , war in gulf and ukraine driving up energy costs diesel and petrol, funny how the world is a interconnected global financial system and that at micro level people can just say its the prime ministers fault 🤣🤣 some would say simplistic . If theres anyone to blame for all this shit its trump

1

u/rowdyfreebooter 5h ago

I don’t think the government wants a recession but decades of bad policy have made it look inevitable.

What’s really worrying is if we go into a severe El Niño with severe drought in parts and or flooding what going to happen?

For a country that is so isolated we are so reliant on imports just to transport our food around that the vulnerable in our community won’t even be able to put food on the table.

We need to have the ability to refine our own fuel, have our basic necessities met by Australian companies for power, water and infrastructure maintenance.

We think the cost of living is bad now but I think it’s going to get worse.

We are reliant on large supermarkets because they have forced out local independent traders. Everything needs to be transported long distances because farm land is now cookie cutter housing estates.

Let’s be honest our diary industry isn’t even viable because people won’t pay a fair price for milk but will order pre made food being delivered by a service.

Now a merchant card fee is causing all sorts of issues. I worry that means people are using credit rather than living within their means and that in itself is a huge issue.

I’m no economist but when people are worried because on a few % increase on your purchases on your card rather than take cash out of your account it’s a huge red flag.

2

u/ScepticalReciptical 4h ago

Over a longer timeline a recession is practically inevitable for all economies as its a natural part of the economic cycle. Australia has been lucky enough, bar covid, to avoid a real recession for 35 years. That's an anomaly, but it's a long enough timeline that there is an entire generation that has never experienced one and just assumes everything always goes up. They think a recession is the equivalent of end of days, they are unpleasant but they happen all the time.

1

u/geebzor 5h ago

Both kinda right, but loads of other factors too. Either way, things are kinda fucked at the moment, and people are going to have to suffer so we can get through it, who will suffer? the masses most likely.

To me, all the Politicians/Partys are the same. Regardless of party, in my mind, they will always benefit the people that put them there, political donors. We get the dregs and they throw us a bone here and there.

IMO, the only thing left now that maybe we can influence is decency. Let's not put the Racists and Bigots in charge please, they will completely screw the country.

1

u/Blue2194 5h ago

If the government didn't mind a recession we'd have squashed inflation months ago

1

u/ContributionEasy6513 4h ago

They are stuck in group think and serving their own interests they have ended up so detached from the real world.

One of my Australian B2B businesses (IT related) has lost over 30% of its clients the last 3 years due to those clients being forced out business due to 1) Out of control regulation and associated costs 2) Taxation 3) Double digit increases in operational costs.

Is it all Labor's fault, not totally. Bad policy at all levels and global economic conditions compounded over the past 2 decades. We are at the point of what can Labor do? Continuing to set money on fire to create mostly pointless jobs and ignore inflation to win votes has worked so far.

The other option of slashing spending is very unpopular, leading to substantial unemployment and hardship, probably triggering an economic crisis in itself. Far nicer to just enjoy the champagne until the music stops.

1

u/WotsGoinOnEreMate 4h ago

They’re doing the exact opposite, while also balancing it against inflation.

The huge migration numbers are literally just about juicing up GDP.

1

u/Prime255 4h ago

The answer is no, but our economic development has been stunted by an overreliance on property for equity gains, which does not develop the future workforce, as investment often drives innovation in progressive sectors like medicine, engineering and technology (among others).

The next few years are an attempt by the government to pivot to more sustainable economic fundamentals, which will result in an economic slowdown. You don't want to let the issues continue indefinitely, or you may end up with a long-term economic slowdown.

1

u/mitccho_man 4h ago

Recessions are great things -

1

u/UncleTomCruise 3h ago

I would say that our governments do not want a recession. But will inevitably cause one. And its not partisan. Governments around the world are on the spend spend spend train.

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u/Complete-Cricket-351 2h ago

Australia abolished the national planning council.  Then New Zealand did exactly the same thing and rapidly fell apart.

When neoliberalism came along in the greedy 80s and we were sold the lie that governments can't do anything even though it built snowy hydro now they can't even fix pot holes in the local roads

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u/Dazzling_Cow_1916 1h ago

Our govt is doing what Labor always does- uses sensible economic strategies to protect us from external craziness.
Donald and his continual warmongering is one external
Influence.
Price gouging and market domination across supply chains is another.
Plus our very own billionaires causing chaos for
Their own means is another.
And still we persevere!
Let’s hear about the RW neo-liberal ideology and how good they will be for our country .. now!

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u/hariatupala 45m ago

No they don’t but they are stuck between a rock and a hard place as there is not really any way to avoid one (without perhaps choosing a path that is even worse)

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u/zeefox79 12m ago

The government doesn't, but I'm pretty sure there's a couple of people at the top of the RBA who do. 

0

u/Timothy_Kramer 7h ago

they are running out of things to stop this recession, mass immi will further increase inflation, rates all time high, its over now

the recession we had to have

2

u/lawrencep93 7h ago

They don't want one but given they are incompetent and the government before them also was combined with a weak productivity growth and other challenges it would be very difficult to avoid one now in Australia, technically we would have had multiple recessions already if we didn't stay out og a technical recession from Government increase in spending and high levels of immigration but it's showing up in per capita gdp, a larger wealth divide and how people feel the pinch if in the middle and lower classes

1

u/StockAmphibian4596 7h ago

Unless they know they can dig themselves out of it, maybe. But recession is political suicide. Its also why migration picked up was to avoid recession.

They'll be demonised no matter what they do. Print money = increasing debt = Labor bad. Increase migration = "takin err jerbs" = Labor bad. Pay back the debt = not investing in the economy = Labor bad. Spending surpluses to invest in the country = spending money/bad financial literacy = Labor bad

Companies and the rich dont want labor because they intend to tax the billionaires and charge royalties for destroying our country, so the media smear campaigns begin

1

u/burnt-gonads 6h ago

I hope we have a depression, beyond caring any more.

1

u/Harry-blue96 6h ago

Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) sets the official target cash rate, it is an independent body from Government. Its current action of fighting inflation at any cost, ie only a few people will suffer badly, can result in a depression. They only have one control tool available to them, interest rates, take that tool away and they become meaningless and unemployed. There are lots of better more equitable ways to control consumption but it involves direct government action and the rich and powerful would scream blue murder, electoral death. So we all agree that the least powerful, those whose future rely’s on debt must pay for the excess consumption of the rich investors who have money to burn and benefit from higher interest income benefits.

1

u/Championbloke 5h ago

I think we need one badly!! It’s going to hurt many people though.

It’s the only way to get the political will to actually make some sensible decisions. Lower energy prices, work with industry to improve productivity, drastically reduce waste, fix the NDIS, stop the over regulation, unleash the private sector.

It is time to put Australia First every decision needs to be tested against the best decision. Have an actual plan let’s start with immigration, set long term goals, ensure that we are actually targeting the age group to reduce the aging population, do long term cost benefit analysis of different nationalities bring only the ones that add value to the country. Seriously it isn’t that hard.

1

u/doemcmmckmd332 4h ago

Yep, Albo gonna screw us

1

u/xjaaace 4h ago

Sounds like a failing business… It’s not always someone elses fault

0

u/profchaos111 7h ago

Government spending is one of many factors but it is a factor

0

u/Emergency-Ticket5859 7h ago

It's crazy to me that an apparent majority of the population is cheering for a housing market crash and lower immigration. As the AFR pointed out, this is going to crush spending in the economy as well as state government revenues. Obviously not good for the economy, or jobs, or anything really. Speed running a recession.

Then what?

4

u/Aristokat21 7h ago

I don’t want a housing crash, but I do want a correction so young people can actually afford to buy somewhere

5

u/Emergency-Ticket5859 7h ago

How are they going to afford it with higher rates, lower serviceability and higher unemployment in the economy

1

u/Mushie101 6h ago

so create more houses and lower immigration.

Why stuff with all the other tax crap that effects everyone (except the international companies making billions....oh thats right jobs for mates). So instead we have CGT and trusts tax changes that effect business, young people, new families, and retired people. Yep that sounds like a clever govt. This is all from a treasurer that has an arts degree....

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u/Ilyer_ 2h ago

The tax discounts shouldn’t have ever existed. When they were implemented, it directly led to housing prices going out of control and destroys the entire future of this country in many different ways.

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u/Ilyer_ 2h ago

It’s crazy that people want to be able to buy even an apartment?

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u/Emergency-Ticket5859 1h ago

How much you wanna buy it for?

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u/Ilyer_ 1h ago

Just the ability to buy for the majority of people would be great!

-1

u/No-Independent670 7h ago

I think a recession will be a best-case scenario.

I have a feeling we’re heading towards something that will make the Great Depression look like a fairytale.

Edit: how else would they push a digital currency solution?

-1

u/camerapilot 7h ago

It’s a combination of factors. Definitely not helped by the govt’s fiscal handling. The global headwinds along with the whole sale changes to taxation and the general sentiment against a larger population have all contributed to what seems to be a perfect storm.

0

u/random_encounters42 7h ago

Their number one goal is to reduce cost of living, and to depress rent and housing prices and unfortunately, the only way to do that is through policies that will cause economic downturn.

0

u/BarneyBuffet 7h ago

I think that the gov is doing a bad job at comms.

When the global economy started to slide a few years back they pumped immigration hoping to ride it out. It worked in 2008. Not working this time.

There is a psychological aspect to the economy, as spending now is a function of what ppl think the future will be and the certainty of that future. So the gov job is partly to sell the dream of the future.

Like anyone in sales, you need to trust and believe in your own product. A lot of ppl are looking around and not buying what the gov is selling. The gov have lost the room and need to take some extreme accountability to get some creditability back, and communicate where we are and the likely future. Along with short, medium and long term strategies. At the moment it is everyone else's fault or look how great we are.

Give me good news, give me bad news, just don't give me surprises.

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u/ASisko 1h ago

Government doesn’t want a recession, but also doesn’t want to do the things that would prevent one.

-4

u/rodgee 7h ago

Yes it's a well tried method of Labor governments to spend like we need to pay more tax, create the new taxes and spend even more creating the Recession we have to have. Ask Paul Keeting, he might remember saying Recessions are one of the economic leavers governments have at their disposal, imo

-1

u/EVOXSNES 7h ago

You just go and tell your customers to grow a fkn brain and vote for better people. Both Liberal and Labor ran up huge debts and they are both at fault. Not only that but fiscal and monetary decisions have been a huge joke.
.