In college i did a presentation about this specific matter (let me show off, i got a 9,5/10) and yes electronic voting can be secure and avoid fraud. I mentioned Brazil where it is like a digital ballot box so its not that different from normal voting, but you could vote 100% online through your smartphone like when you order uber eats and still be generally secure and consistent, they do that in Estonia
Voting via smartphone in Brazil would not be safe at all. Given the Brazilian context, if a person voted from their home, someone could be next to them forcing them to vote for a particular candidate.
As it stands, the candidate may even take the person to the polling place, but will never know who the person voted for.
Source: I was a "mesário" for over 10 years in Brazil.
yeah, voting on site secures the secrecy of your choice, online voting would probably result in people getting their parents phones and voting in the candidate of their choice
what I think is that the system itself could be changed so the parliament elections are on a different date
Actually it is safer from coercion than regular voting. You can vote from your place and no mesario can phisically threat you to vote someone or manipulate your vote in-situ, nor the votes can be "missed" while they count.
There is a great measure Estonian system implements and it is that you can vote both via smartphone and in the physical place, so if someone (imagine your parents, or your partner) forces you to vote someone via smartphone, then you can vote again (modify your vote) when you are alone or to show up and vote the physical way, so it has priority over your online vote.
You have these two additional layers of security so it would be way safer than it is now
This is completely unrealistic. In Brazil, you've never heard of poll workers forcing votes. What happens is that candidates buy votes, and the voter receives the money but votes for whomever they want. In practice, it would only make it possible to see who the voter actually voted for. Perhaps in other contexts this makes sense, but not in Brazil (which we are talking about).
"but you could vote 100% online through your smartphone like when you order uber eats and still be generally secure and consistent, they do that in Estonia"
If you think this is secure and consistent, you deserved a Zero in that presentation.
People would buy the votes or coerce the others. Someone would say "you will only continue to be employed in my company if you vote for this candidate in front of me".
Actually it is safer from coercion than regular voting. You can vote from your place and no mesario can phisically threat you to vote someone or manipulate your vote in-situ, nor the votes can be "missed".
There is a great measure Estonian system implements and it is that you can vote both via smartphone and in the physical place, so if someone (imagin your parents, or your partner) forces you to vote someone via smartphone, then you can vote again (modify your vote) when you are alone or to show up and vote the physical way, so it has priority over your online vote.
You have these two additional layers of security so it would be way safer than it is now.
Please dont feel free to insult others when you dont know how that works
"You can vote from your place and no mesario can phisically threat you to vote someone or manipulate your vote in-situ,"
This literally doesn't happen. Can't happen. This is not even possible. Insane fanfic.
"Please dont feel free to insult others when you dont know how that works"
Lmao.
Voting system shouldn't be about "what is more efficient". Voting online is a big NO. What if someone does a DDOS attack? What about people who don't have access to phones or internet?
Estonia has a population of approximately 1.36 million people. That is the same amount of a medium size city. Nothing that happens there applies to a country.
Not even responding because you are ignorant and completely lost on the conversation. Nice counter argument to something i didnt say.
The fact that you think mesarios dont manipulate votes is crazy because its something that has been widely reported on democracies around the globe. Yes, mesarios sometimes do electoral fraud.
Have a nice day (i editted spelling mistake) and please get back to the real world
"The fact that you think mesarios dont manipulate votes is crazy because its something that has been widely reported on democracies around the globe. Yes, mesarios sometimes do electoral fraud."
Yes. It is possible. They could vote for people who didn't show up at the end of the election.
But they never would coerce anyone to vote. This can't happen. Everyone would see this.
"Have a nice they and please get back to the real world"
I literally voted today in brazil. I see mesarios working. I see things happening with my eyes.
Yeah it works in Estonia, it doesn't work in Brazil.
Buying votes in Brazil has been a thing for the longest time, in fact its a crime to bring your smartphone with you to vote at the machine, or to film it, take a picture. If you could vote with your smartphone from home in Brazil, most mayors would be huge farm land owners or businessmen for example
Actually it is safer from coercion than regular voting. You can vote from your place and no mesario can phisically threat you to vote someone or manipulate your vote in-situ, nor the votes can be "missed" by them.
There is a great measure Estonian system implements and it is that you can vote both via smartphone and in the physical place, so if someone (imagin your parents, or your partner) forces you to vote someone via smartphone, then you can vote again (modify your vote) when you are alone or to show up and vote the physical way, so it has priority over your online vote.
You have these two additional layers of security so it would be way safer than it is now
and yes electronic voting can be secure and avoid fraud
I've been working in IT security for 30 years. This got a cynical laugh out of me.
"For the last three years, DEFCON has featured a voting machine
hacking village (the Voting Village) to give participants an opportunity to
examine and get hands-on experience with the security technology used in
U.S. elections, including voting machines, voter registration databases, and
election office networks [...]
It is notable that participants, who overwhelmingly do not have
any previous special expertise in voting machines or access to any proprietary
information about them, have been very quickly able to find ways to
compromise every piece of equipment in the Village by the end of the
weekend. Depending on the individual model of machine, participants have
found ways to load malicious software, gain access to administrator
passwords, compromise recorded votes and audit logs, or cause equipment to
fail. In most cases, these attacks could be carried out from the ordinary
interfaces that are exposed to voters and precinct poll workers."
Saying that electronic voting can be secure is like saying that computers can be secure. Sure, there's no law of nature that prevents that. In practice actually being secure is a formidable challenge.
Because of what I know, I am very happy that the country I live in continues to cast votes on paper which are then manually counted. Like it has been done for the last 100 years and nobody wants to change that.
This is why eletronic voting in Brazil is made in e-ballots without any connection, and any eletronic device is forbidden while voting. After all ballots close at 17h each ballot gives a paper with its result that can be checked by anyone, then the ballots are taken by the military or federal police to the superior electoral tribunal where they are uploaded to the server that makes the counts.
After the upload anyone can cross the data from each individual ballot
This is why eletronic voting in Brazil is made in e-ballots without any connection, and any eletronic device is forbidden while voting
Is someone watching you while in the voting booth?
After all ballots close at 17h each ballot gives a paper with its result
Or what it now thinks the results are.
then the ballots are taken by the military or federal police to the superior electoral tribunal where they are uploaded to the server that makes the counts
A lot of show for the press and a lot of moving parts, a lot of it exposed.
Also American e-voting system is very very shitty
From what I see, I don't think you have sufficient knowledge to pass judgement.
Is someone watching you while in the voting booth?
Yes? The "booth" is just piece of cardboard for people not be able to see the numbers you are inserting, there are a ton of volunteers and party representatives in each ballot room. The only way that you would be able to connect is putting out the drive where it stores the results, and you would have to physically remove the voting machine to do that, which not only would be pretty noticable for anyone in the room but would probably also lock the machine
Or what it now thinks the results are
Yeah, this is why the machine is checked before and after by at least one representative from each of the dozen or so policial parties we have, the volunteers of each voting section and literally anyone else who may ask to do it
A lot of show for the press and a lot of moving parts, a lot of it exposed.
This is literally the reason why each machine giver the results BEFORE the transportation, they just are taken to be uploaded
From what I see, I don't think you have sufficient knowledge to pass judgement.
What an unpleasant response. Besides being utter nonsense. Security is evaluated in comparison to alternatives, and paper ballots are far more susceptible to fraud. However, an unpleasant person makes any discussion pointless, and I'm only saying this so that others will read it.
The holy entitlement to come here and disrespect me as a professional. And also my teacher who happens to be a highly respected researcher on digital security and who has more years of experience than you managing digital security plans on big institutions.
I would humbly debate with you the problems of this system as i did with my teacher, i am aware of its problems as i had to dive into them, if only every single argument you presented wasnt nonsensical. You didnt even criticize the Estonian-like system i brought up but the idea you have on what online voting is. What a pity, honestly
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u/21p_ 13h ago edited 13h ago
In college i did a presentation about this specific matter (let me show off, i got a 9,5/10) and yes electronic voting can be secure and avoid fraud. I mentioned Brazil where it is like a digital ballot box so its not that different from normal voting, but you could vote 100% online through your smartphone like when you order uber eats and still be generally secure and consistent, they do that in Estonia