I’m on my reread of the Cosmere and I just finished Bands of Mourning again.

I was thinking a lot about Sazed and his situation with various other discord theories and stuff in my head on the reread.

It strikes me that Kelsier and Marsh being nearly immortal and both having some religious beliefs assigned to them is setting them up as potential hosts if Sazed betrays his powers and is abandoned by them.

I doubt the powers would remain fused together. They would likely separate.

If so, they would need hosts and I think Brandon is putting the brothers in place.

Naturally as fans we think “oh marsh is linked to death and Kelsier is the guy we love” so marsh gets ruin and Kelsier gets preservation.

But that’s too simple. I think it would have to be the opposite.

Kelsier is brutal. Ruin always said he was of him. Kelsier chose to use hemalurgy. Marsh was forced into it. Kelsier raised up the southerners it seems and they cause ruin around the Cosmere. Marsh lives in the north and his powers allow him to preserve his own life but he seems to not want to interfere much in the world except to counter other forces.

And the best evidence I think from a writing perspective is that fuzz and Saved, both previous owners of preservation, visit people upon their death. Marsh is already associated with death and is seen as the grim reaper figure. How perfect to have your grim reaper figure actually be the one who visits with people while they die.

Anyway I am not sure if others have come to this conclusion but it seems teed up and could happen era 3 or 4 depending on the pace and other things.

Era 1 powers fight and find harmony

Era 2 harmony drifts and stagnation causes a drift towards discord

Era 3 maybe harmony completely shifts towards discord and discord reigns.

Era 4 maybe discord destroys Sazed and he dies and the powers are split again. Sazed dies with failed oaths and ruin leaves the system

Era 5, ?

TL;DR marsh gonna be fuzz Kelsier gonna be spoopy spider man

From other WoBs we’ve been gathering some information about how unsealed metalminds can be created, and while we have not yet gotten the full explanation for how they’re made, I’d like to throw my hat in the ring.

Now here’s the information we do know. We know that malwish medallions are created with nicrosil, duralumin, the metal specific to the stored power, and something called an excisor. We know that a full mistborn and a full feruchemist together can create any kind of unsealed metalmind, but that hemallurgy makes the process easier. We also know the function of an excisor might or might not kill its host. We know that nicrosil can be used to store investiture and invested arts (a feruchemist can store their ability to store an attribute in a metal), and that duralumin can be used to store connection (a spiritual aspect that we don’t know that much about except about the fact that it’s a very integral component to the mechanics of the Cosmere). We also know that unsealed metalminds have more of an identity than normal metalminds.

This is where my theory comes in. We know what function the nicrosil serves in the medallion (storing the capacity to store an attribute in a metal) and the function the specific metal in the medallion serves (to store the specific attribute within it or tap it). However, the function of duralumin is unclear. I believe the excisor is actually a very specific duraluminmind, storing the connection that a scadrian (particularly one that has access to the metallic arts) has to preservation.

We know that the way the metallic arts function, is that a metalborn can consume a specific metal (which have intrinsic invested properties) and then burn it by using their intrinsic connection to preservation to transform the metal into investiture, which makes the metalborn become a temporary hybrid between themselves and the metal, releasing their investiture in the same way that the specific metal influences the flow of investiture (push or pull, internal or external, physical, cognitive, spiritual or temporal). Basically, they have to consume metal so their cognitive aspect believes it’s part of them, then through their connection to preservation turn that part of themselves into investiture, and making their soul radiate that metal-coded investiture, as if they themselves act the way that metal does with investiture for a short period of time (until the investiture runs out). In essence, only those with a connection to preservation or preservation and ruin can actually perform the metallic arts.

I believe the reason duralumin is so important for medallions, is that a they are based around a duraluminmind that is storing their connection to preservation, hence giving them far greater investiture and identity, as it’s through this connection that they can draw the flow of constant investiture required for them to give the power so long as you have the medallion, instead of only having the power temporarily, as an unkeyed nicrosilmind would give. This also explains why they can be accessed by anyone, as it would give the connection to preservation required, fueling both the host and the nicrosilmind. This is why hemallurgy makes it easier, as an excisor would basically be a hemallurgic spike of duralumin (which can steal connection and identity) that has stolen the connection and identity of someone that is connected to preservation and ruin, hence also giving them far more of an identity and investiture than the usual metalmind.

And this would also explain why medallions of more than one power are rarer. We know that hemallurgy has trouble with the compounding and resonance of powers, due to the muddying of the different identities conflicting each other. A medallion has to store a sufficient amount of connection (and therefore identity) to preservation for its powers to remain constant and without a temporary limit. As such, it would be very difficult to make one with multiple powers that come from different identities. You could do it if you only stored maybe chunks of identity that then combine for a “whole” identity that has a stable connection to preservation and ruin, but you can see why the process would be hard and complicated the more identities (aka powers) you try to place into a medallion.

The way a full mistborn and a full feruchemist could do it is actually pretty mechanical. The feruchemist would have to be storing identity to blank it, and storing within a nicrosilmind conjoined to a duraluminmind both the power to store an attribute and their connection to preservation and ruin. They might need the help of the mistborn amplifying their capacity to store through the flaring of burning nicrosil. After storing that self coherent chunk of their soul, it’s probable that they would lose it from themselves, hence losing the ability to store that particular attribute, but gold healing is known to be able to heal wounds to the spiritweb, so they would just need to use their health reserves in their goldminds. They could then cycle through all 16 metals, and then the mistborn could use the feruchemical medallion they just made, to store their powers of burning metals into the medallion itself, going through each metal while repairing their soul through the health storing that the medallion allows. After that entire process, you’d technically have a medallion able to give you all 32 powers with only two distinct identities present within it (unless the feruchemist blanking identity means that no reasonable part of their identity is present in the medallion for it to give identity power problems). A fullborn would have a way easier time making one, which is probably how the lord ruler created the bands of mourning.

tldr: I believe excisors are complex duralumin hemallurgic spikes that contain both the connection to preservation and ruin (and identity required) of a metalborn, hence giving a consistent flow of investiture to its connected nicrosilmind (storing the power to store within or burn a metal) so as to make its storage not deplete with use, and allowing its holder to use said connection and nicrosilmind to be able to store an attribute within a metal or burn a metal. This explains why a medallion may or may not kill a person to be made, why a feruchemist and a mistborn could make one without hemallurgy, why duralumin is needed for a medallion to work, why medallions have more of an identity than normal metalminds, and why it’s difficult to make medallions of more than two powers.

Did Hoid breathe a breath that brought that doll to life? Is Hoid from the planet Warbreaker takes place on? I want a Hoid book bad lol

Also I'm hoping we learn what the Fused are looking for under the Kholinar palace. On to Mistborn Era 2.

Hey everyone!

Having spent a lot of time following the Cosmere across all its worlds and eras, I always find it fascinating how opinions shift regarding which stories and characters stand at the very top.

With so many different worlds, magic systems, and distinct tones throughout the universe, picking a definitive favorite is never easy.

I would love to hear your thoughts:

What is your all-time favorite book in the Cosmere?

Who is your favorite character, and which moment or arc cemented that for you?

The thread is open to full Cosmere spoilers, so feel free to discuss major plot points, Sanderslanches, and character arcs openly!

As the Cosmere becomes more interconnected in the space age, do you think we will see religious syncretism between planets? For example, survivorism/Kelsier with the growing Kaladin faith, Marsh and Moash.

And do you think this can impact the cognitive aspect of these cognitive shadows, especially if Kaladin visits Scadriel or Kelsier visits Roshar (aka a milder version of the Greek/Roman gods’ personality shifts in Percy Jackson/Hero of Olympus)?

I have read Mistborn era 1 like two years ago and forgot a lot of stuff, i just watched some recaps on youtube because i bought 3 books from Stormlight today and am so planing on reading them tomorrow. What are some important information, details, Charachters and so on from mistborn that might be relevant for the new series (please don’t spoil it just kindly refresh my memory)

So I was looking at the fabrials and realised they used metal, so I tried to find a general "coding" of what a metal does. The general function of the metal changes, but the effects have some overlap and I tried to find that overlap.

So I first started by making a chart of what we know (Picture 1)

Then I tried to find the overlap in the functions of the metals between the magic systems, getting a second graph (Pic 2)

So here is the justification of the different functuons:

Iron: In all functions for Iron it brings stuff closer, so that is (probably) its function.

Steel: Same as iron, just instead it pushes stuff away

Tin: In most cases it increases which is how much the world impacts you, like senses change how much you notice.

Pewter. In either increases strength, or intensity of a fabrial, which, connecting the dots, gives us the opposite of tin, you impacting the world more.

Zinc: It either makes fabrials stronger (Which are powered by spren, which are powered by emotions) or increases emotions, so it makes sense it makes it more emotional

Brass is just the opposite of Zinc, it makes your emotions left intence and makes your cognitive side more intense, so it probably makes it more logical

Copper: I just put it as the opposite as Brass. It probably has more to it, but I couldnt find a link. (If you can, tell me)

Bronze: Every time it either detects people, Allomancy, helps you detect people, or helps you impact people, so it probaby can detect investiture (Or identity, but I think that it is investiture)

Now that we have the base metals "original" coding, we can extrapolate to the other 8 getting their "coding" being:

Chromium: It is paired with Nicrosil, so like Copper, its the opposite of its pair, Nicrosil

Nicrosil: Increases intensity of invesiture, and the best way to say that was pushing.

Aluminum: It blanks and blocks investiture, so thats (Probably) its function. Also there is a WoB that asks if Aluminum blanks Investiture, and the questionier got RAFOed, so its probably close.

Duralimin: Is related to connection as well intensifying allomancy, which is powered by the connection to preservation, so maybe it intensifies that connection.

Cadmium: Either slows down time, or it lets you live longer (storing breath), so it possible increases the longevity of stuff

Bendalloy: Just the opposite of Cadmium, and it allso increases energy which makes you more efficient.

Gold : Either heals you, or shows your past, and we know that healing works by copying from your spritweb, so maybe it copies the spiritweb.

Electrum: THe opposite of gole.

I was rewatching K-Pop Demon Hunters, and realized that it would fit surprisingly well in the logic of the Cosmere.

For one, the colors of the Honmoon and Huntrix’s weapons seem to match with Virtuosity’s Investiture, primarily cyan with hints of magenta, and are tied to song — a form of art — while Gwi-Ma and his demons seem to match with Odium’s Investiture, primarily violet-black and corrupted red, and are tied to shame and negative emotion.

For obvious reasons let’s assume this is a weird alt-timeline: maybe Virtuosity was splintered by Odium, and a Splinter of the latter would stay behind in the aftermath?

The generations of Hunters are somewhere between the Yoki-Hijo and Heralds. They’re living Splinters of Virtuosity, the power passed along the generations from one trio of women to the next. They collectively hold the largest portion of Virtuosity’s power, which they can harness to shape Virtuosity’s Investiture to a certain extent, forming weapons, holding the equivalent of a few Heightenings, and seeming to be able to see slightly into the Cognitive Realm. The Honmoon is a grand work, using Virtuosity’s Investiture to create a barrier between the Physical and Cognitive Realms, drawing of the faith and adoration Hunters inspire in people to maintain it, similarly to how loose Investiture is naturally shaped by beliefs and will, helped along by the fact that all native to this planet hold a bit of Virtuosity’s Investiture within their souls. It can be pushed past with enough power, forming a red tear, or by being ‘welcomed’ such as public faith being redirected from the Hunters to Gwi-Ma, the result usually turning parts of the Honmoon red and making it easier for you to break through, even decaying it.

Some creatures also formed from Virtuosity’s Investiture, similar to Spren but able to maintain a physical presence in the Physical Realm. These creatures include animals such as Derpy and Sussie. Because they aren’t tainted by Odium’s Investiture, they can slip through the Honmoon. After all, they’re made of the same substance. Such creatures are non-hostile by default, being surprisingly intelligent animals but animals nonetheless.

Other creatures also coalesced, mixing with Odium’s Investiture, becoming the first demons. Gwi-Ma is the largest, equivalent to a Splinter of Odium. He has sufficient power to corrupt people, so long as they let him in, similar to how Venli could be emotionally manipulated by Ulim since she let the Spren into her gemheart. Such corrupted people, if their Connection to Gwi-Ma is strong enough, remain as Cognitive Shadows after death, tethered to Gwi-Ma, similarly to how Kelsier became Invested by using Preservation’s Perpendicularity. Their ability to consume souls, feeding them to Gwi-Ma to make more demons, seems similar to Shades, different enough to be notable though since they don’t have the withering touch, instead siphoning the Investiture out of the body directly.

Demons themselves are of varying power, with the more intelligent ones that originated from Cognitive Shadows being able to make use of abilities reminiscent of the Surges of Illumination and Transportation, able to form illusions, disguise themselves with some shapeshifting thanks to being composed of Investiture, or replicate the Husked One’s trick of teleporting via evaporating their body and reforming elsewhere.

Rumi, as the child of a demon and a Hunter, is a bit weird Realmatically speaking, similarly to how Shallan is with her mother. It also means that she has a bit of Odium’s Investiture in her, a lingering Connection leading back to Gwi-Ma, albeit not an active one thanks to the nature of his corruption relying on a personal touch. This means that she is a point where the two powers can intermix to an extent, hence why the Honmoon shudders so much at her outburst, as Odium’s Investiture leaks through her into the Honmoon, destabilizing it.

With Rumi finally accepting her marks, her Connection to Gwi-Ma, at the end of the movie, letting go of the negative emotion, she is able to layer the bit of her that is Odium with the bit of her that is Virtuosity, a small scale mixing of Intents — inner feelings with the medium to express it. This is why the colors at the end are different, the Honmoon forming around them more prismatic with flecks of yellow-gold thanks to working Odium’s Investiture into it.

Ok, I’ve run out of steam. This has been a stream of consciousness I wanted to share, hope you like it! You can thank the “Barbie Movie would fit in the Cosmere” post from a while back for giving me this idea in the first place.

Maybe Im missing something here, but why exactly did the other Shards not step in or do anything after Rayse had killed 3 of their number?

Rayse was going to come for each of them eventually and had successfully killed 3 of their number. I feel like that should have set off more alarms among the remaining Shards than it apparently did.

Even if they wanted Dominion, Devotion and Ambition gone, Rayse's success at killing other vessels is a sign that hes pretty dangerous at Shard on Shard combat.

I bought these books mainly because I wanted to read The Dog and the Dragon to my 4 year old, it's great and she loves it. Not planning on reading her the other 2 for a few years but we read this one last night and I didn't read it myself first.. just assumed it was ok for kids...that's on me. However there are some pretty grim scenes as you can see on pic 2 It's a cute story but just be aware there are a couple pictures of skeletons etc that might be pretty scary for young kids.

So I have a concept for a character for the Cosmere RPG but also as just an OC in one of my favorite IPs. The concept is as follows, a martial artist irali that becomes a dustbringer because his father trained him. I’m working on backstory and stuff but essentially I want him to become a dust bringer who never used a weapon, he would use division and abrasion to keep his martial arts wildly effective. Instead I was thinking that at the 4th ideal that the armor would spawn in separate from the radiant and be taken control by the ashspren while in a weapon form essentially spawning in another fighter to help out. Also I thought about giving the spren the personality/memories of the boys father.

How lore friendly is my idea? I’ve read up to WaT so I’m not concerned for spoilers. Are there things that I can change to keep the concept alive but within lore?

Thanks for the advice.

I was thinking that there seems to be a partial solution to the navigation struggles in the Cognitive Realm, for everyone without a Navigator.

The metal from Roshars fourth moon (4M, from here on) amplified the Investiture from Honor/Odium. Using 4M as beacons around the Knell should also amplify its signal like an antenna array. Placing four around the Knell would create a radiation pattern with cardinality, strengthening the signal in 4 directions and weakening the signal in other directions. If you also include a fabrial for pulse width modulation, you might even tell which cardinal a receiver is most strongly hearing.

This wouldn't tell you how far away from the Knell you are, I think the signal would be too messy for real Cognitive gps, but knowing you are east/west/north/south of the Knell would be useful

Currently reading Blightfall, the new Cytoverse book and came across a very unexpected reference to my favourite world hopper.

At the end of Mistborn the Final Empire I loved Kelsier, I knew he was flawed and he had some problems but he cared about his people and he lived by his code more or less. I mean he was human but he tried and I just loved him for his loyalty to his crew.

Then Secret history comes along and his very first thought was "WHERE IS MARE?" and I am totally here for it because that's his ultimate person, his wife, his everything. He has the chance to go to her but he sees he needs to stay to save their pseudo daughter and I get that, Mare has to wait so he can save Vin. Man to Man, I understand and I support it.

Then at the end you know what he doesn't do? Say, mission accomplished, time to go on to the next life with my daughter, son in law, and see my wife again. Instead he sticks around to dinkle around the Cosmere and it really just made me think a lot less of him. Where is the guy who's first question was where is my wife?

- This kind of grew beyond my ability to respond to all of the comments, but I would like to thank everyone for the discussion it has been highly enjoyable.

Ok, so I'm only up to ch 25, and not all the way(had to stop to make dinner for my family), but something struck me. You don't need to spoil anything from later in the book(though you can if you want. It doesn't bother me. Knowing the destination doesn't spoil the journey for me), just let me know if I'm hot or cold.

In ch 25, we learn that the Emberdark is supposed to be the part of the Cognitive Realm that doesn't correspond to any inhabited worlds, or even a pathway between worlds,, because there isn't any minds to give it shape. But First of the Sun is in the middle of the Emberdark, and the Emberdark goes rightup to a small "island" surrounding its Perpendicularity. But there is people on First of the Sun, so it should have a presence in the Cognitive Realm. But then I realized: the Aviar. One of the most common Talents we are shown is hiding the minds of people from predators that hunt by sensing minds. They are masking the Cognitive presence of the entire planet, arent they?