She almost ruined a proposal.

[u/mindyour]

This was at Crescent Bay Point Park, which allows people to book it special occasions.

[u/Key-Performance-9021]

We basically kicked them out after they tried to forbid others from practicing their religion. They literally banned Christmas. America started as a refuge for extremists and control freaks. What else do you expect?

In 1647, the Puritan-led English Parliament banned the celebration of Christmas. Protests followed, and pro-Christmas riots broke out in several cities. For weeks, Canterbury was effectively controlled by the pro-Christmas rioters, who decorated the city with holly.
The Puritans later fled to the Netherlands, but even there, they were confronted with religious freedom, and feared that their children might become Dutch and “drawn away by evil examples into extravagance and dangerous courses.” They therefore decided to try their luck in the New World.
In 1659, the Massachusetts Bay Colony enacted a law called Penalty for Keeping Christmas: “Festivals as were superstitiously kept in other countries are a great dishonor of God and offence of others. Anyone found celebrating Christmas by failing to work, feasting, or any other way shall pay for every such offence five shillings.”
Non-Puritans in New England lamented the loss of the holiday traditions enjoyed by the working classes in England. The Puritan ban was revoked in 1681 by the English-appointed governor Edmund Andros. Nevertheless, it was not until the mid-19th century that Christmas celebrations became fashionable in the Boston area. Before the Declaration of Independence in 1776, Christmas was not widely celebrated in the American colonies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversies#17th_and_18th_centuries

[u/justforsomelulz → u/Key-Performance-9021]

My favorite part is that I was taught that our origin of "seeking refuge from persecution" meant that we we somehow better than everyone else and it was beginning of America Being The Best No Exceptions America Is The Best.

Now I just roll my eyes and think "wow, some attitudes really don't fade..."

[u/Pulse99 → u/justforsomelulz]

Yeah they taught us that too. Never explained why they had to leave England, just that they were “persecuted”- turns out it was for being the biggest whiniest loudest bitches about everything since the dark ages.

Kind of funny that nowadays in America yelling about the “war on Christmas” has become an annual tradition.

[u/BeeSpibbleBlop → u/justforsomelulz]

To follow-on to the ideas expressed above, the irony then became that we somewhat gave Christmas back to them. Washington Irving specifically. He wrote a story called Bracebridge Hall talking about Old Christmas. I forgot the particulars. Basically followed a group of Holiday goers traveling into the country to a hall to celebrate old Christmas traditions. Dickens was here in the Americas and took back the idea and ethos to help with A Christmas Carol.

Book: The Battle for Christmas

[u/Joinedtoaskagain → u/Key-Performance-9021]

tbh... yeah that checks out.

[u/TaftForPresident → u/Key-Performance-9021]

To be fair, that was like one colony. The rest of us were Anglicans, Catholics, and Quakers.

[u/Key-Performance-9021 → u/TaftForPresident]

You're right. What's still really interesting to me, is how different these groups look today. American practice tends to be way more strict, compared to Europe.

As a Catholic myself, the contrast is pretty stark. European Catholicism was baked into every corner of society for centuries, so it feels a lot more relaxed and culturally absorbed. American Catholicism, on the other hand, operates in a much more scripture-focused environment, like actually reading the Bible, regularly attending mass, and holding a much stronger personal identity as a Christian.

[u/TaftForPresident → u/Key-Performance-9021]

Absolutely true yet there are major social distinctions between parts of the United States. For example, the Lutheran synods in the East are quite liberal for Christians and usually resemble modern Anglicans or Episcopalians. But out West they have the Missouri synod which is far more fundamentalist.

On the whole, though, the cultural separation from larger authorities and focusing on personal relationships with God grew dramatically across the country largely due geography. The Pope and the king were quite far away, after all!

[u/Alarming_Panic665 → u/Key-Performance-9021]

Well Catholicism in the US was heavily discriminated against until like the late 20th century (it was a massive deal that JFK became President in the 60s). This meant politically (and culturally) the US was heavily divorced from the Papacy. So Catholicism isn't really baked into the society (instead Protestantism takes that place).

So American Catholics only really identify as such because they are serious about the religious aspect rather then because of a cultural or traditional reason.

[u/Excellent_Airline315 → u/Key-Performance-9021]

I was thought the second half about the Dutch in high school, they completely left out the fact that they were the problem.

[u/Expensive_Law_3180 → u/Key-Performance-9021]

Fucking John Pym and his purtianical lunacy. They basically wanted to go elsewhere so they could suck the happiness out of the world in peace. Sweet Jesus.