I’m guessing she denied the magnitude of “no’s” so he got mad and set out to show her.
I’m sure this went over exceedingly well and definitely proved his point. And now has even less sex
Well that’s entirely fucked up you can’t sit there in and argument and dismiss your partner and gaslight then by telling them you rarely say no but then get mad when they come back with facts and receipts that they aren’t exaggerating. If they come back with receipts you need to do some self reflection.
1) I'm not saying gaslighting is okay 2) we don't even know what happened before this, that's speculation 3) I agree that self reflection would be necessary after, I'm saying that emailing a spreadsheet (because that's how it was delivered) to your wife's work email is not necessarily going to get the resolution this man wants.
I repeatedly have empathized with his frustration, because it is valid. I've even said I've kept notes in a similar fashion when I felt like someone was not acknowledging the facts of a scenario and was downplaying it.
I just was trying to think of a way it could be addressed/a delivery system that would work slightly better. 🤷🏽♀️
I don’t think it’s necessarily about more sex at this point. I know for sure when something keeps happening and my wife will be like ok, like when? The times I thought of in my head seem to vanish in the heat of the conversation. Like I was prepared, the conversation went to quickly and bounced around, then I can’t translate them correctly because it’s usually a tough conversation. I’ve never done a spreadsheet, but I completely see why this is how this guy communicated this way. It’s a sure fire way for him to communicate what he’s probably been failing at communicating for a while. Some of us suck at talking.
I've definitely kept notes of certain things when I've needed to bring things up in an argument because I've had that happen where someone is like "ok when did that happen" and I had no answer because I wasn't keeping track!
I just don't think smacking down the spreadsheet came across the way he wanted to 😔
Journaling would be more appropriate and is way better then a quick not or a spreadsheet.
Edit: I dont know why I posted early.
A journal allows you to add more information. The other events of the day. YOUR thoughts and feelings around the issue and it can show how they change over time.
All those helpful things that allow YOU to process and organize YOUR thoughts.
This is just a person wanting to prove they are right, and lacks all context.
It is a score card highlighting a single point, and proves there is a lack of communication and other things needed for a healthy relationship.
Also, problems should be brought up, face to face and in a reasonable time. Say after all people have calmed down. Pulling shit out that happened a month ago does nothing but grow the fight.
If it was a problem a month ago it should of been handled then. Letting shit fester doesn't do anything for you.
Basically this relationship is cooked. And it is now burning down the kitchen.
This is also true, is she never initiating sex at all? Because I know if I were the only one initiating sex in a relationship every single time, that would hurt my feelings lol
Like sis you don't ever tell him he looks handsome and you want a quickie? 😆😭 EVER?
When I want it. I initiate and she either gives the yes or no..
When she initiates, and does a very good job at it, I have nothing else to say but YESSS!
Yeah that's also true, she probably is getting anxious knowing it's coming, that he's going to ask, so she's not even tuned into her own sexual desire. She is so focused on his needs and anxious about meeting them/rejecting them she's not even thinking about whether or not she might want it herself
This is making me sad for people I don't even know bc they're both valid (just thinking abstractly without any outside information about these people lmao)
I can understand frustrations from both sides generally. I get why a lot of women feel unsupported in marriages but I definitely know I would feel devastated and insecure if I was married to a man who didn't want to fuck me 😕
Thank you for understanding. I'm not the OP but I had a similar situation years ago. I didn't Excel 😁 but underneath the frustration was EXACTLY what u described.... hurt feelings and loneliness.
I haven't, in my own experience found many women (I'm assuming u are) especially online who express understanding at a man's feelings. Don't wanna start a whole thing but just...thanks I appreciate your understanding of what this man is probably feeling and what I know I was feeling.
I am a woman 🙂↕️ and you're welcome, I feel like because he didn't necessarily go about it the best way, it comes off badly and people don't really try to listen fr.
But I try to put myself in other people's shoes and I know it would hurt my feelings really badly if I felt undesired by my partner.
I just wish there were better resources for people on how to talk about these things early, before the frustration gets to this point - because once it gets it gets to that point it can be hard to communicate in a way that might solve the problem 😕😭
Yeah and, as I've said, I think his frustration is and would be valid.
I'm just trying to think of what would actually happen after that, the spreadsheet. Would it be likely for her to be like oh honey you're so right let me suck your dick now?! Because I don't think that's the case 😕
So I'm trying to think of what would be likely to actually make this better because I empathize with his (for the third time, valid) frustration.
Speaking from experience. The next step is “so, now that we can see this laid out objectively, to me this is a problem and I’d like us to work together to fix it. If you look at this and don’t think it’s a problem, then that’s a pretty big gap between us that also has to be addressed because it means we somehow ended up on very different pages on this topic that’s pretty critical for a healthy marriage.”
It’s definitely not “ok I proved you wrong with data! Let the blowjobs commence!”
So your assumption based on no information is that he doesn’t do enough around the house or he’s out of shape or needs to buy sex with date nights? Nah. Divorce this chick and find someone that enjoys sex.
There’s no amount of work that will fix this with someone that’s just not interested in sex. Sometimes people just have different levels of desire, different drives. This guy could be the sole earner, come home and cook every meal then deep clean their house and she’s still going to find some made up “mental load” she’s carrying where she can’t get in the mood.
If sex is important to you and it’s not to your partner then you’re just sexually incompatible. He should leave her and let her be with a partner who’s as disinterested in sex as she is. Or if she’s just done having sex with this guy she doesn’t have to deal with it. Either way she wins.
I don’t think it would be the case either. But I do think that she at some point has said ‘That doesn’t happen’ or ‘You’re exaggerating’ and this detailed account is him saying ‘It’s not an exaggeration, it’s a real problem, it needs help.’
Oh yeah, he’s responding with a spreadsheet and that’s not going to connect with her on any levels to get the response he’s wanting. I don’t know if there is a resolution for these two at this point since they’re so far apart on what they believe and how they are communicating.
Yeah at this point it's a fight not a conversation so they're trying to win not understand each other so idk how to fix that tbh just end up watching like
Ohh for sure. It's kind of one of those "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy" situations in spirit, but not really in this situation.
Could be misaligned sex drive from the start where one was being humored, could be loss of attraction, could be unfulfilling on her part, hormonal issues that changed her drive, drastic body change on either or both of them.
They got to be honest about the "why" of it all, then address in good faith if they are able. I can only speak as a man, but if I wasn't able to keep up with my womens drive, then I'm going immediately and starting the process of getting on testosterone. I can only speak as a man, but if I wasn't able to keep up with my partners drive, then I'm going immediately start the process of getting on testosterone and see if it helps (it will lol). If for no other reason then that... So it's relatively easy for us men to get it addressed (which would also help with weight loss if that's a factor with attraction and fulfillment)
Yeah I definitely think if they could figure out the why so they could actually feel closer to each other, she could feel supported if that's the issue, and yeah maybe she could get hormones looked at bc that's a thing for women too- maybe they could get on the same page?
The delivery of the spreadsheet and the response to it would be telling too. Like dependent on how he shows it to her, and depending on how she receives it- maybe they could work towards finding solutions together. I could see a woman being shocked as to just how many rejections there were! And thinking like damn okay gotta adjust some things in my life.
I've also been in situations where an ex partner thought they were propositioning me for sex and I rejected them, but I had no idea 😆😭 I just thought they were trying to cuddle lol. So that could be part of the situation too?
I just always want to find ways people can be happy and everyone can get what they need idk
Very solution based myself. A dear friend was (is) having some marital issues. Both are very "Till Death do us part" serious about marriage, but she had extremely cold and distant parents and the upbringing to match (rooted in a certain religion), a pretty mean and manipulative mother and a absolute pushover for a father... So she has some of those tendencies + very nervous avoidant. They've done therapy, but the moment the therapist starts putting her behaviors in the spotlight, she refuses to Go again with that therapist. Tons of undealt with childhood issues. I'm very cool with both of them and try and support the marriage as a whole.
I was like, "let's just all fucking go to Costa Rico dude and do an aiowasca retreat...Get this Groundhog Day over with. We'll all puke and shit ourselves together!"
Lol 😆😆 I think your approach could work tbh. Therapy only works if both people are actually willing to change unfortunately 😕 I hope they can work it out, I love love and want people to be happy together fr
After the spreadsheet, they agree to go to counseling and she works on it. This is scenario 1.
Scenario 2. She deflects and denies. She pretends like this spreadsheet is false accusations. She tries to turn it on him with insults like "you actually did this?! You're such a child. This is so immature."
Scenario 3. She doesn't really enjoy sex that much and acknowledges that. She realizes that her husband, who she just wants to make happy, has needs. She can't fully suffice those needs. So she allows him to find other women for meaningless sex.
At this point he isnt getting sex either way. I did something similar but way less detailed because when I tried tried talk to my wife about it she told me that she hardly ever turns me down or rejects me and I was exaggerating. After like 2 months of tracking it was nearly 80% fail rate when I attempted initiating sex and 100% success rate when she did. We had sex 5 times in 2 months. She changed the conversation to how I wasnt initiating very much. I told her she is right, its better to just assume no sex and not pursuit it than get rejected over and over again.
It sux but its not like she is doing it to be spiteful or hateful. Its been a BIG issue are whole marriage and was a large reason why we nearly divorced a couple of years ago. I went through a whole thing with it. Started out doubting myself taking comments like a few on this post about not focusing enough on her, lowering her load around the house the whole thing. The issue was none of that was the situation, she had the amount of sex she desired and felt comfortable and confident in the relation so despite me bring it up "all the time" it wasnt an issue... ironically the moat sex we ever had in a week was when we first separated for the divorce
She probably is sick of carrying all the mental load in the household and sees him like one of the children now. Not exactly the dynamic that makes you want sexytime. Or, she’s legitimately ace. Either way, it is unlikely to be resolved unless BOTH of them are willing to make changes. If it is the first issue, him stepping up to share home responsibilities without having to be nagged or directed like a child MIGHT salvage if it hasn’t gone too far and she can start viewing him as an adult again. If the latter, it depends on whether she is sex neutral or sex averse. A sex neutral person could choose to engage more to fulfill their partner, a sex averse person just shouldn’t be in a relationship where sex is expected to be a major component. So if the latter they should split (at some point, depending on the details of the kid situation) or decide to live in such a way where hubs can get his jollies elsewhere until they are in a position to split up.
Honest communication, maybe with external counsel.
Some of the reasons might not have been the primary ones. Too often women feel neglected/left alone which dampens their interest but the partner doesn't pick up on it.
Tough it might be too late after sharing/showing her this sheet.
Yeah and that's what kinda makes me feel sad because I genuinely understand why he is upset, rejection especially from someone you love feels awful, I just am wondering how both people could get what they need
Maybe I'm just always trying to think pie-in-the-sky about this stuff idk
he’s too desperate. he needs to be about his own business until she comes to him. if she doesn’t come to him it’s most likely that he’s just as annoying as the data would suggest
I mean at that point nothing he can do will get him more sex. It has to come from her. He has to either hope she miraculously changes her mind , remain miserable for the entirety of his existence 😅, divorce her , or cheat.
What might go long way is getting home early some Friday to get house in perfect shape ( or hire cleaner), know her enough to know what type if weekend she would love,let her soak in tub and sleep for 10 hours and have amazing in the morning and several .ire times later!
IDK. We are drawing all sorts of assumptions with little context. All im saying is give them both the benefit of the doubt before saying MUST DIVORCE. If they honestly tried to communicate and everything still devolved to this... yeah maybe time to think of d9vorce LOL
I think there’s a difference between actively rejecting someone and lacking interest on a subconscious level.
Not sure which is going on in this scenario. However, making a list of things that one partner has ‘denied’ the other, without any other data points, comments, or context, is just a list of grievances.
This is the style of shit people email to their HOA. Not a way to start a dialog within a relationship.
I definitely think this is a "you don't take 'I don't want to right now' as a valid reason to say no, but I have found if I say I need to shower and then don't shower you stop trying to bully me into fucking you for the night", to be honest.
He's tracking it like the issue is that she rarely says yes, I think the issue is that he won't take "no" as an answer and drop it, with a high likelihood the sex isn't enjoyable for her if he's this self centered and/or oblivious.
True. Its the way of communicating. Hes obviously a bad communicater. I see this a guy doesnt know how talk to his wife about intimacy so this is what he resorts to. What does he expect the outcom to be. "I wrote a spreadsheet. You deny me all the time. I have facts. I want to fuck more!" That'll work!
I would bet this is the case. Like I got into a small argument the other day because my partner keeps leaving their laundry sitting in the washer for days at a time and then when I go to use it, I have to rewash her nasty smelling laundry, that shit wet all that time before I can do my own.
What got me annoyed during this argument wasn’t even that, but her excuse that she never has time but I know that nearly every day she gets up and drop the kids off at school (I pick them up in the afternoon, that’s the deal before anyone gets up and arms about that) and then she comes home and spends about an hour to an hour and a half in debt before she then goes to work.
I was like I know you have this time to just like swap your laundry really quick every day and she started to argue with me that that never happens and that she comes home and she goes straight to work.
There was absolutely a brief moment where I considered starting a spreadsheet because I feel like I’m being gaslit when I know that I see this at least five days a week. I didn’t start a spreadsheet but literally like the next day when she did that, I had to stop and pointed out and say like this is exactly what I’m talking about.
So I would bet that this guy has probably had this conversation with her many many times and she’s probably downplay how often it is to the point where he felt the need to create a spreadsheet in order to just not feel fucking crazy.
I hate to be this way but maybe just put the smelly laundry in a basket and put it to the side? OR, make an agreement that one of you will do laundry and another of you will do something else? My hobby does dishes and I do laundry. We help each other of course but that's mostly how it falls. Or maybe ones washes/dries and the other folds?
Although what I see is that he gets a yes every 2-3 weeks. Not to get too explicit, but I would have killed for that frequency in my marriage, and I'm a woman.
Fuck that. Grateful to be pity fucked or “just hush about it” fucked every 3 weeks? I’d be out, especially if there’s no real reason like a medical issue or something.
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u/andy11123 24d ago
My man is communicating very clearly with data. You can't argue with facts.
You can argue he's slightly deranged though